[bloodshyParticipant]

As a Jazz fan it’s been tough watching this season. However, Gordon Hayward has been a bright spot. I suggested several months ago that I thought Hayward could go 19-5-5 this year now that he’s his team’s #1 option. Thus far he’s averaging 20-6-5 on 46% shooting. 

I still don’t think Hayward will ever be a legitimate #1 option on a good team. However, I think he could be a very good second fiddle on a good team. It will be interesting to see if he can keep this pace up for the full 82. 

 

 

[festar35Participant]

I am a fan on Hayward, I think he is a very, very good role player. 

What I want to know is will Indianabasketball officially admit that Paul George is far and away better player. I remeber him saying that if George was on Jazz last year they still would have missed the play-offs and I think he is 100% wrong. 

Sorry for venting, but I really like Hayward in this team if it develops in the right way. I can see Kanter being the main offensive option in Utah and all they need is Trey Burke to improve, however at the rate they going they will be the proud owners of Wiggins or Parker, which will hurt Hayward’s production.

 

[festar35Participant]

I am a fan on Hayward, I think he is a very, very good role player. 

What I want to know is will Indianabasketball officially admit that Paul George is far and away better player. I remeber him saying that if George was on Jazz last year they still would have missed the play-offs and I think he is 100% wrong. 

Sorry for venting, but I really like Hayward in this team if it develops in the right way. I can see Kanter being the main offensive option in Utah and all they need is Trey Burke to improve, however at the rate they going they will be the proud owners of Wiggins or Parker, which will hurt Hayward’s production.

 

[Michael.S.Participant]

Theres alot to like abut Hayward. He is a good shooter, finisher, slasher, creator, athlete etc. Just knows how to play. I think he can be an integral part of a very successful team.

[Michael.S.Participant]

Theres alot to like abut Hayward. He is a good shooter, finisher, slasher, creator, athlete etc. Just knows how to play. I think he can be an integral part of a very successful team.

[jwall1Participant]

 Gordon Hayward IMO is a solid 3rd option on a championship contending team. Hes having a nice season, but his stats are inflated due to Utah’s lack of talent…

[jwall1Participant]

 Gordon Hayward IMO is a solid 3rd option on a championship contending team. Hes having a nice season, but his stats are inflated due to Utah’s lack of talent…

[Pick-and-nothingParticipant]

 3rd option? Really? He is (albiet in this small sample size) averaging better offensive stats than PG last season when PG was thrust into the #1 option when Granger went down. Hayward is developmentally a year behind PG. The Jazz still wouldn’t of made the playoffs if you switched the two because of how the team was constructed. He would’ve been restricted in his role just like Hayward was, even though by the end of the year it was clear Hayward was the best person on the team. If Hayward starts to really catch fire towards the end of the year and the Jazz start winning…how is that not comparable to what happened with PG? It takes time to learn where to get your points and help your team win. Hayward is learning that right now.

Defensively PG will always have the advantage and the potential because he is athletically superior. However, on offense Haywards athletic ability will not hinder him. If he keeps improving his shooting % and passing (along with O rebounding) he will be elite offensively. Kevin love version of a wing player if you will (I know yall gonna give me shit for that haha).

Another very important aspect is he wants to win. His hard play shows that. 

People who think Hayward isn’t at the very least a solid # 2 on a championship squad simply don’t watch him enough. 

 

[Pick-and-nothingParticipant]

 3rd option? Really? He is (albiet in this small sample size) averaging better offensive stats than PG last season when PG was thrust into the #1 option when Granger went down. Hayward is developmentally a year behind PG. The Jazz still wouldn’t of made the playoffs if you switched the two because of how the team was constructed. He would’ve been restricted in his role just like Hayward was, even though by the end of the year it was clear Hayward was the best person on the team. If Hayward starts to really catch fire towards the end of the year and the Jazz start winning…how is that not comparable to what happened with PG? It takes time to learn where to get your points and help your team win. Hayward is learning that right now.

Defensively PG will always have the advantage and the potential because he is athletically superior. However, on offense Haywards athletic ability will not hinder him. If he keeps improving his shooting % and passing (along with O rebounding) he will be elite offensively. Kevin love version of a wing player if you will (I know yall gonna give me shit for that haha).

Another very important aspect is he wants to win. His hard play shows that. 

People who think Hayward isn’t at the very least a solid # 2 on a championship squad simply don’t watch him enough. 

 

[festar35Participant]

2012-13 Pacers were a Eastern Conference finals team, who took the Heat to 7 games. The Pacers team was a lot better than this Jazz team and Paul George managed to be a preferred scoring option over Hibbert, West and Hill. The Jazz have 0 players that on those guys level offensively (yet). Kanter WILL be a good center and Favors is a a defensive jaggernaught in the making, however Hayward has no competition.

Frank Vogel stated that he still didn’t run moves for Paul George till about halfway throught the season, now and only now has Paul George had the chance to adjust and train as a number 1 option.

"People who think Hayward isn’t at the very least a solid # 2 on a championship squad simply don’t watch him enough." This is exactly it, Paul George is currently the #1 option on a Championship team and has room to grow. Hayward does not have the potential of Paul George.

 

 

[festar35Participant]

2012-13 Pacers were a Eastern Conference finals team, who took the Heat to 7 games. The Pacers team was a lot better than this Jazz team and Paul George managed to be a preferred scoring option over Hibbert, West and Hill. The Jazz have 0 players that on those guys level offensively (yet). Kanter WILL be a good center and Favors is a a defensive jaggernaught in the making, however Hayward has no competition.

Frank Vogel stated that he still didn’t run moves for Paul George till about halfway throught the season, now and only now has Paul George had the chance to adjust and train as a number 1 option.

"People who think Hayward isn’t at the very least a solid # 2 on a championship squad simply don’t watch him enough." This is exactly it, Paul George is currently the #1 option on a Championship team and has room to grow. Hayward does not have the potential of Paul George.

 

 

[Pick-and-nothingParticipant]

 And I agree with you, but I think only defensively (which yes means overall). I just think we really have only speculation to draw off of till the end of this year. Then an accurate judgement can be made on where Hayward can be ranked in this leauge. 

Can he be blamed for not having similar teammates as far as quality? I don’t think it’s fair to. 

It all depends on the wins. If towards the end of the year the Jazz start winning AND Haywards stats remain the same it will not be debatable. There are times where he clearly outclasses everyone on the floor. 

Time will tell? 

Again, I realize Georges ceiling is higher. But I argue that that is strictly due to defense. Where George is all world 

[Pick-and-nothingParticipant]

 And I agree with you, but I think only defensively (which yes means overall). I just think we really have only speculation to draw off of till the end of this year. Then an accurate judgement can be made on where Hayward can be ranked in this leauge. 

Can he be blamed for not having similar teammates as far as quality? I don’t think it’s fair to. 

It all depends on the wins. If towards the end of the year the Jazz start winning AND Haywards stats remain the same it will not be debatable. There are times where he clearly outclasses everyone on the floor. 

Time will tell? 

Again, I realize Georges ceiling is higher. But I argue that that is strictly due to defense. Where George is all world 

[jwall1Participant]

 I have seen Hayward alot. Although Hayward and George are similar, George does almost everything better than Hayward right now. George is also more athletic and has about 2 inches on Hayward, which gives him a big advantage on both the offensive and defensive end. Hayward is a solid starter in the league but would not be a #1 or #2 player on a good team, just my opinion.

[jwall1Participant]

 I have seen Hayward alot. Although Hayward and George are similar, George does almost everything better than Hayward right now. George is also more athletic and has about 2 inches on Hayward, which gives him a big advantage on both the offensive and defensive end. Hayward is a solid starter in the league but would not be a #1 or #2 player on a good team, just my opinion.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

http://nbadraft.net/forum/gordon-hayward-13

I thought he could average 20-5-4 this season, so far, I’m only off by two rebounds.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

http://nbadraft.net/forum/gordon-hayward-13

I thought he could average 20-5-4 this season, so far, I’m only off by two rebounds.

[festar35Participant]

 I honestly believe that Hayward is close to his ceiling as he already understands the game so well and makes the right decisions. He doesn’t make a lot of areas or force issues or show raw potential, if the Jazz start winning it will be because of the likes of Kanter, Favors and Burke improving and Hayward staying steady as a contributor.

[festar35Participant]

 I honestly believe that Hayward is close to his ceiling as he already understands the game so well and makes the right decisions. He doesn’t make a lot of areas or force issues or show raw potential, if the Jazz start winning it will be because of the likes of Kanter, Favors and Burke improving and Hayward staying steady as a contributor.

[Pick-and-nothingParticipant]

Let me ask this then. If the other young players improve as you say, and the team subsequentially improves because of that and they start winning etc.. and Haywards stats remain the same…what class of player is that? top 25? Top 50?

[Pick-and-nothingParticipant]

Let me ask this then. If the other young players improve as you say, and the team subsequentially improves because of that and they start winning etc.. and Haywards stats remain the same…what class of player is that? top 25? Top 50?

[festar35Participant]

 I never said that his numbers would stay the same. I said he just needs to continue playing the same way. His numbers will drop if his team improves as other guys will get shots, I fully expect him to flirt with top 50 players in the NBA I never said he wasn’t good, but on a winning team I see his numbers as 15-17ppg and 5-6rpg and 2-3apg as he would just remain consistant.

[Pick-and-nothingParticipant]

 That’s fair, though I hope you’re wrong. 

I still think he is a career 20-5-5 1.5 steals 1. something blocks. I could be wrong though. At times during his HS/CBB career he was an elite shooter. He isn’t bad but if he shot 50% maaan would that be nice.

I’ve heard him be compared to Manu. Was Manu a top 25 player in his prime?

 

[festar35Participant]

 Manu was good and I do see that as a comparison. In saying that Manu never had a 20ppg season, his best was 19.5ppg and 2nd best was 17.5ppg. For his career he averages 14.8ppg and he has never avraged 5 rpg or apg either. Manu was a 3rd scoring option behind Parker and Duncan and that is the exact same scenario that Hayward would flourish in.

 

 

 

[Pick-and-nothingParticipant]

 He would flourish in that scenario. I guess a lot depends on whether Kanter can be star. I really don’t know how I think about Favors or Burke, at least as far as offensively being a #1 or #2 option. And I’m starting to get upset about MCW success because I don’t know if Burke can do what MCW is doing.

[Pick-and-nothingParticipant]

 He would flourish in that scenario. I guess a lot depends on whether Kanter can be star. I really don’t know how I think about Favors or Burke, at least as far as offensively being a #1 or #2 option. And I’m starting to get upset about MCW success because I don’t know if Burke can do what MCW is doing.

[festar35Participant]

 Manu was good and I do see that as a comparison. In saying that Manu never had a 20ppg season, his best was 19.5ppg and 2nd best was 17.5ppg. For his career he averages 14.8ppg and he has never avraged 5 rpg or apg either. Manu was a 3rd scoring option behind Parker and Duncan and that is the exact same scenario that Hayward would flourish in.

 

 

 

[Pick-and-nothingParticipant]

 That’s fair, though I hope you’re wrong. 

I still think he is a career 20-5-5 1.5 steals 1. something blocks. I could be wrong though. At times during his HS/CBB career he was an elite shooter. He isn’t bad but if he shot 50% maaan would that be nice.

I’ve heard him be compared to Manu. Was Manu a top 25 player in his prime?

 

[festar35Participant]

 I never said that his numbers would stay the same. I said he just needs to continue playing the same way. His numbers will drop if his team improves as other guys will get shots, I fully expect him to flirt with top 50 players in the NBA I never said he wasn’t good, but on a winning team I see his numbers as 15-17ppg and 5-6rpg and 2-3apg as he would just remain consistant.

[bobforteParticipant]

 I have got to watch all but one Jazz game this season.  I think its important to note a few things.  1.  He is the main option and is still getting his legs under him with as many mins as he has been playing.  You can tell watching him at times he is exhausted.  2.  True this team has potential but not a ton of talent right now.  Which some of you see as him loosing stats but point guard play has been terrible until last game with Garrett and I think someone who can knock down some shots and dribble penetrate will only help Gordon.  3.  

 

I think he is a good number two option on a winning team.  He will continue to produce around 20 points per game this year and be there number one option.   They will lose a lot of games but this should only help him for when they improve the next in the next couple years. 

[bobforteParticipant]

 I have got to watch all but one Jazz game this season.  I think its important to note a few things.  1.  He is the main option and is still getting his legs under him with as many mins as he has been playing.  You can tell watching him at times he is exhausted.  2.  True this team has potential but not a ton of talent right now.  Which some of you see as him loosing stats but point guard play has been terrible until last game with Garrett and I think someone who can knock down some shots and dribble penetrate will only help Gordon.  3.  

 

I think he is a good number two option on a winning team.  He will continue to produce around 20 points per game this year and be there number one option.   They will lose a lot of games but this should only help him for when they improve the next in the next couple years. 

[HazelParticipant]

When I look at Hayward’s game, it appears to me that his most elite skill is his ability to make plays with the ball.  He plays like a point guard.  I think that his role as the first or second guy to run the offense through is where he excels most.  That said I would call him a number one or two option, but not necessarily the leading or even second leading scorer on a great team.  If they have say Parker for example, next year, I could see the scenario where Hayward initiates the offense in cruch time and Parker is the weak side guy getting all the attention and the ball as the shot clock runs down.  

I love George, but they play different games.  Everyone loves the attacking athleticism of George, as do I, but I have a soft spot for guys who love making the pass just as much as the shot.  Having said that, I think they have different offensive games, but I do not see a large descrepency between them as far as value to a team.  

Defensively and athletically Hayward is also very good.  He can bother the shot of Durant, and his blocks/steals indicate a near elite athlete.  Once again, while George has a definite edge, I don’t see it as that large.

Finally, playing in the playoffs on a team with that kind of toughness and really pushing the Heat the last two years is in my mind the greatest advantage Geoge has.  He know he can play with anyone on the biggest stage.  Hayward has never even been to that stage. 

[thunderjerkParticipant]

Gordon did carry Butler on his back to the NCAA tournament finals. Man, if that shot had gone in, that would have been one of the greatest shot in basketball history. He’s only been to the playoffs once and San Antonio destroyed him, but he’s probably twice the player he was now. 

It’s going to be interesting to see who initiates the offense when Trey Burke comes back. I wonder if they continue to use Gordon as a point-forward and use Burke in a Chalmers-y kind of role.

[thunderjerkParticipant]

Gordon did carry Butler on his back to the NCAA tournament finals. Man, if that shot had gone in, that would have been one of the greatest shot in basketball history. He’s only been to the playoffs once and San Antonio destroyed him, but he’s probably twice the player he was now. 

It’s going to be interesting to see who initiates the offense when Trey Burke comes back. I wonder if they continue to use Gordon as a point-forward and use Burke in a Chalmers-y kind of role.

[HazelParticipant]

When I look at Hayward’s game, it appears to me that his most elite skill is his ability to make plays with the ball.  He plays like a point guard.  I think that his role as the first or second guy to run the offense through is where he excels most.  That said I would call him a number one or two option, but not necessarily the leading or even second leading scorer on a great team.  If they have say Parker for example, next year, I could see the scenario where Hayward initiates the offense in cruch time and Parker is the weak side guy getting all the attention and the ball as the shot clock runs down.  

I love George, but they play different games.  Everyone loves the attacking athleticism of George, as do I, but I have a soft spot for guys who love making the pass just as much as the shot.  Having said that, I think they have different offensive games, but I do not see a large descrepency between them as far as value to a team.  

Defensively and athletically Hayward is also very good.  He can bother the shot of Durant, and his blocks/steals indicate a near elite athlete.  Once again, while George has a definite edge, I don’t see it as that large.

Finally, playing in the playoffs on a team with that kind of toughness and really pushing the Heat the last two years is in my mind the greatest advantage Geoge has.  He know he can play with anyone on the biggest stage.  Hayward has never even been to that stage. 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

@Pick-and-nothing

I agree w/ 100% of everything you’ve posted in this thread, *especially* Gordon Hayward being one year behind Paul George developmental wise. Hayward is being given the opportunity this season that George got last season and look what he’s doing with that opportunity… 20.3 points on 46% FG, 6 rebounds, 5 assists and 1 steal. While I don’t think Hayward will ever be a top option on a championship caliber team, I definitely think he could be a second option. I still don’t think people realize just how good Hayward is. He’s not close to being done getting better either. 

George is unbelievable though and he’s taken a GIGANTIC leap this season. I mean, he’s so confident right now that it’s ridiculous. I can’t wait until he gets to go up against LeBron James and Kevin Durant. Defensively, he’s something special. I believe he’s the best on ball defender in basketball and with Roy Hibbert behind him, he’s just a beast on the perimeter. While Hayward is a good defender and competes hard, he won’t ever be the defender George is. He just doesn’t have the length, foot speed and athleticism that George has. George can defend and make life difficult for any guard or small forward in basketball. He’s Scottie Pippen defensively. I believe George is headed towards serious superstardom. He’s just THAT good. His improvement has been remarkable. The season is early, but I believe he’s officially passed Carmelo Anthony as the 3rd best small forward in basketball. As a matter of fact, other than LeBron James and Kevin Durant, there is no other wing I’d rather have over him right now. There are probably only three players in the NBA I’d take over him, which are James, Durant and maybe Chris Paul. 

For me… It’s a win win. I love BOTH guys. They’re my two favorite players in the league. 

 

  

 

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

@Pick-and-nothing

I agree w/ 100% of everything you’ve posted in this thread, *especially* Gordon Hayward being one year behind Paul George developmental wise. Hayward is being given the opportunity this season that George got last season and look what he’s doing with that opportunity… 20.3 points on 46% FG, 6 rebounds, 5 assists and 1 steal. While I don’t think Hayward will ever be a top option on a championship caliber team, I definitely think he could be a second option. I still don’t think people realize just how good Hayward is. He’s not close to being done getting better either. 

George is unbelievable though and he’s taken a GIGANTIC leap this season. I mean, he’s so confident right now that it’s ridiculous. I can’t wait until he gets to go up against LeBron James and Kevin Durant. Defensively, he’s something special. I believe he’s the best on ball defender in basketball and with Roy Hibbert behind him, he’s just a beast on the perimeter. While Hayward is a good defender and competes hard, he won’t ever be the defender George is. He just doesn’t have the length, foot speed and athleticism that George has. George can defend and make life difficult for any guard or small forward in basketball. He’s Scottie Pippen defensively. I believe George is headed towards serious superstardom. He’s just THAT good. His improvement has been remarkable. The season is early, but I believe he’s officially passed Carmelo Anthony as the 3rd best small forward in basketball. As a matter of fact, other than LeBron James and Kevin Durant, there is no other wing I’d rather have over him right now. There are probably only three players in the NBA I’d take over him, which are James, Durant and maybe Chris Paul. 

For me… It’s a win win. I love BOTH guys. They’re my two favorite players in the league. 

 

  

 

 

 

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