[TiosecoParticipant]

It just crossed my mind how it seems as if winning plays a bigger factor in judging guards as compared to big men. First off, don’t get me wrong – all great players need to win to be considered truly great, but it seems to hold a bigger deal with guards than big men. 

Guards like Wall, Kyrie, Kobe, Curry, T-mac, etc. are all held accountable when their teams don’t do well and this affects how fans and the media rate them as players. This is even if they individually perform well and produce stellar numbers.

Big men like Cousins, Love back in Minny, Anthony Davis, etc. are viewed as elite or even the "best" big in the league even if the team they’re on doesn’t play well. I mean, of course they still have to win in the playoffs to be considered an all-time great and all, but it just doesn’t seem to matter as much for them as long as they produce stellar numbers when it comes to how they are viewed in the league. Rather than the burden of their teams’ performance being placed on them, its always attributed to a myriad different factors but them.

Imagine Steph Curry averaging his career averages for a team that’s never gone to the playoffs, he’d be called a chucker, doesnt make teammates better, putting up empty stats, etc. Isaiah Thomas was putting up similar numbers in Sacramento as this year with Boston but is only being highly regarded now that Boston is a top team in the East. 

But look at Cousins (I love cousins btw and I also think he’s the best center in the league) now, Love back in Minny, Anthony Davis now. I hope y’all getting my train of thought already.

Why do you guys think this is so?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[treytalkssports.comParticipant]

 I don’t think it is a positional bias. I think it is a hype bias. 

When "the media" (whatever that is) gets on someone’s bandwagon, it’s not their fault. When they are not on the bandwagon, it’s always their fault. 

 

 

[treytalkssports.comParticipant]

 I don’t think it is a positional bias. I think it is a hype bias. 

When "the media" (whatever that is) gets on someone’s bandwagon, it’s not their fault. When they are not on the bandwagon, it’s always their fault. 

 

 

[Stop_basketball_nonsenseParticipant]

 1st off your train of thought is absurd& holds no validity. No matter what position you play if you are your teams best player no matter if your team is constantly missing or making the playoffs you are held accountable. I feel there is no other way this logic can be looked at. Matter of fact it seems only illogical to look at it any differently.

The cavs just started winning since lebron came back, & people before thar were claiming that Irving was an elite pg, some tried to make a case for top 5, even though the year he had deng, waiters, jack, Thompson, & hawes they still missed the playoffs. Wall has a injured & even less talented team the the previous 2 years the wizards made the playoffs, which is why is indubious he is a top 3 pg still. The Lakers missed the playoffs in 05 & kobe like wall, actually more elite than wall regardless of position, was known as a top tier player, & was held accountable for what he could do, which regardless of his great efforts, you can’t make the playoffs in the west witj smush Parker, Chris mihm, & Luke Walton.

As far as today’s players you named, kyrie included I think personally most people in general, because of the way the game is played & called their bball IQ is lower & they settle for less. Love should never have been considered an elite big man in the first place. Everybody who consistently voted him an all star is an imbecile. I mean the 2012-2013 season he & a harden who just joined the rockets Both had teams on IMO equal footing to make the playoffs, there was no 8th place team with  50 win record ahead of them & love choked, but harden who just got to Houston propelled his team to the playoffs. Cousins attitude has held his team back. I know people crack on the on the kings, but between cousins’s attitude & him shootings so many jumpers(even though he can make it) when know one on earth can stop him from getting to the rim. 

Davis seized his opportunity & made the playoffs last year, this year a new coach, theirbest wing in pondexter is hurt plus more injuries doesn’t help.I think he is the only big out of the ones you named who has justified his allsyar selections, even though he didn’t make the playoffs or was close to it the 1st year he was selected to theASG. 

Either way love, cousins, Davis, & Irving all at some point before their teams had success regardless of position were all held unaccountable, by constantly being picked to the all star game eben though at different points they weren’t good leaders for their teams. I mean davis who has had the most success IMO with the talent around him.needs to get on his teammates more about their mistakes. To be honest I know being high draft picks all has a lot to do with these guys getting the notoriety of an superstar, while putting up good stats on bad teams. Another big thing, voters settle for bigs who put up big stats on bad teams because so.many bigs arent all stars their just really good rim protectors, so I guess when your stuck between love or some shot blocker its hard to get it right in the 1st place.

 

 

 

 

[Stop_basketball_nonsenseParticipant]

 1st off your train of thought is absurd& holds no validity. No matter what position you play if you are your teams best player no matter if your team is constantly missing or making the playoffs you are held accountable. I feel there is no other way this logic can be looked at. Matter of fact it seems only illogical to look at it any differently.

The cavs just started winning since lebron came back, & people before thar were claiming that Irving was an elite pg, some tried to make a case for top 5, even though the year he had deng, waiters, jack, Thompson, & hawes they still missed the playoffs. Wall has a injured & even less talented team the the previous 2 years the wizards made the playoffs, which is why is indubious he is a top 3 pg still. The Lakers missed the playoffs in 05 & kobe like wall, actually more elite than wall regardless of position, was known as a top tier player, & was held accountable for what he could do, which regardless of his great efforts, you can’t make the playoffs in the west witj smush Parker, Chris mihm, & Luke Walton.

As far as today’s players you named, kyrie included I think personally most people in general, because of the way the game is played & called their bball IQ is lower & they settle for less. Love should never have been considered an elite big man in the first place. Everybody who consistently voted him an all star is an imbecile. I mean the 2012-2013 season he & a harden who just joined the rockets Both had teams on IMO equal footing to make the playoffs, there was no 8th place team with  50 win record ahead of them & love choked, but harden who just got to Houston propelled his team to the playoffs. Cousins attitude has held his team back. I know people crack on the on the kings, but between cousins’s attitude & him shootings so many jumpers(even though he can make it) when know one on earth can stop him from getting to the rim. 

Davis seized his opportunity & made the playoffs last year, this year a new coach, theirbest wing in pondexter is hurt plus more injuries doesn’t help.I think he is the only big out of the ones you named who has justified his allsyar selections, even though he didn’t make the playoffs or was close to it the 1st year he was selected to theASG. 

Either way love, cousins, Davis, & Irving all at some point before their teams had success regardless of position were all held unaccountable, by constantly being picked to the all star game eben though at different points they weren’t good leaders for their teams. I mean davis who has had the most success IMO with the talent around him.needs to get on his teammates more about their mistakes. To be honest I know being high draft picks all has a lot to do with these guys getting the notoriety of an superstar, while putting up good stats on bad teams. Another big thing, voters settle for bigs who put up big stats on bad teams because so.many bigs arent all stars their just really good rim protectors, so I guess when your stuck between love or some shot blocker its hard to get it right in the 1st place.

 

 

 

 

[ballislyfe25Participant]

IMO sometimes big men get the benefit of the doubt or a pass on being blamed for the lack of success because they need guards/ballhandlers to not only get them the ball but get them the ball in proper time and space.

A player like Rondo not only gets Cousins the ball but gets it to him in rhythm and the flow of the offense and spots in which Cousins is comfortable. Demarcus himself has said that Rondo makes the game easier for him. The same can be said about Anthony Davis and Tyreke Evans. Davis does much more finishing than creating when Tyreke is on the floor and it allows him to conserve energy for defense, transition, spot up shooting/attacking, etc.

[ballislyfe25Participant]

IMO sometimes big men get the benefit of the doubt or a pass on being blamed for the lack of success because they need guards/ballhandlers to not only get them the ball but get them the ball in proper time and space.

A player like Rondo not only gets Cousins the ball but gets it to him in rhythm and the flow of the offense and spots in which Cousins is comfortable. Demarcus himself has said that Rondo makes the game easier for him. The same can be said about Anthony Davis and Tyreke Evans. Davis does much more finishing than creating when Tyreke is on the floor and it allows him to conserve energy for defense, transition, spot up shooting/attacking, etc.

[Stop_basketball_nonsenseParticipant]

 Also getting a good big man the ball doesn’t matter if your a good or garbage pg. If the big can score give them.ball and get out the way. Space and rhythm has a little to do with it but a good big finds a way to get the ball.

[Stop_basketball_nonsenseParticipant]

 Also getting a good big man the ball doesn’t matter if your a good or garbage pg. If the big can score give them.ball and get out the way. Space and rhythm has a little to do with it but a good big finds a way to get the ball.

[MatosParticipant]

Kyrie was still considered elite before Lebron came back. Lilliard would still be considered a top 6 PG if the Blazers were playing as poorly as they were projected to be playing this year. I dont see where this applies. 

Of any of the poor teams, Anthony Davis is the best player. 

 

 

[MatosParticipant]

Kyrie was still considered elite before Lebron came back. Lilliard would still be considered a top 6 PG if the Blazers were playing as poorly as they were projected to be playing this year. I dont see where this applies. 

Of any of the poor teams, Anthony Davis is the best player. 

 

 

[Stop_basketball_nonsenseParticipant]

 

 Yea I agree about the Davis part, but I completely disagree that kyrie was or has been elite, he is a good scorer, there are many of them in the game,& were just as good in their younger days, but not superstars. IMO it greatly applies!!! 

[Stop_basketball_nonsenseParticipant]

 

 Yea I agree about the Davis part, but I completely disagree that kyrie was or has been elite, he is a good scorer, there are many of them in the game,& were just as good in their younger days, but not superstars. IMO it greatly applies!!! 

[MatosParticipant]

 Where do you rank Kyrie on your list of top PGs? Is he not in your top 5 or 6? I’d say thats elite. Point still remains that there are guards who are considered great players on crappy teams.

[MatosParticipant]

 Where do you rank Kyrie on your list of top PGs? Is he not in your top 5 or 6? I’d say thats elite. Point still remains that there are guards who are considered great players on crappy teams.

[UncledrewParticipant]

Blame is always placed on the star guard shoulders because they have high usage and handle the ball more, are easily viewed by audience and more identifyable. It’s easier to praise the prototype big man like Anthony Davis because his freakish length and uber athleticism. At his size there’s not many who can replicate his skills giving him a slight pass in team success. Wall, kyrie, Curry, cp3  ect. are all held to a win or get shamed standard because of their star status. The hype may suggest they single handedly could carry teams through the playoffs when in reality only a few players are truly capable like Lebron or KD. People won’t just appreciate the individual talents they possess, everyone isn’t MJ or Lebron.

 

[UncledrewParticipant]

Blame is always placed on the star guard shoulders because they have high usage and handle the ball more, are easily viewed by audience and more identifyable. It’s easier to praise the prototype big man like Anthony Davis because his freakish length and uber athleticism. At his size there’s not many who can replicate his skills giving him a slight pass in team success. Wall, kyrie, Curry, cp3  ect. are all held to a win or get shamed standard because of their star status. The hype may suggest they single handedly could carry teams through the playoffs when in reality only a few players are truly capable like Lebron or KD. People won’t just appreciate the individual talents they possess, everyone isn’t MJ or Lebron.

 

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