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- Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 11:44am #62890
valentineWhat’s the second best rookie class for centers in NBA history, behind the Towns/Porzingis/Turner/Okafor/Jokic class?
Has there ever been 3 cornerstone centers in one rookie class, much less five?
Here’s the statistical comparison between these 5 so far, all on one page
0 - Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 2:11pm #1044753
Toronto16ParticipantOkafor, Turner and Jokic are not franchise cornerstones. They are building blocks.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 2:11pm #1044890
Toronto16ParticipantOkafor, Turner and Jokic are not franchise cornerstones. They are building blocks.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 5:32pm #1044799
PurpleMonkeyDishwasherParticipantThe 5 players being discussed are all quality players with good potential. If any of them prove to be 30 plus minute per game guys they will in fact be cornerstones if their teams have success.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 5:32pm #1044935
PurpleMonkeyDishwasherParticipantThe 5 players being discussed are all quality players with good potential. If any of them prove to be 30 plus minute per game guys they will in fact be cornerstones if their teams have success.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 5:40pm #1044803
The Scare Crow RisesParticipantPeople seem to forget how young all these guys are…
Okafor gets soooo much hate on this forum but people forget that this kid has been scouted and scrutinized since he was a Freshmen in H.S, and he was hands down the Best Prospect in the world going into his 1st college season at Duke(One he ended by helping the Blue Devils win a National Title, imagine if he stayed and won another one)
What happened?
Karl Anthony Towns being a great player at the Same Time? Duncan,Dirk and KG made out just fine battling each other out West, all while Shaq dominated the NBA at C…
All these kids can be great at the same time without us spoiled fans arguing who’s better than who because of X Y or Z…
I believe at least 3 of the Big men drafted this year will make the Hall Of Fame barring Injury just based on what I’m seeing already…
Towns will no doubt get there if he does what he’s doing right now for the next decade, rings be dammed right Malone, Barkley, Ewing and countless others…
Okafor doesn’t need your love and support to keep up his production for the next decade and if he’s a 20 and 10 force for that time he’ll get into the Hall, that NCAA title will get him into someone’s Hall of Fame
Porzingas is another future Hall of Fame contender if he stays healthy, he’ll get a few All Star games under his belt by virtue of his production and NY City market/exposure, he looks like a potential terror in every sense of the word, I still wonder what Sam Hinkie would have done had the LAKERS stuck to the script and took OKAFOR 2nd(they will live to regret that in the long run) Kristaps, Nerlens and Joel would have been a nightmare defensively, no way could he pass on him right?
Than we have Turner, Jokic , Kaminsky and Portis
I can see those guys having long productive careers if they get their teams full support from here out…At least 1 of them as to make an All Star game, too much talent and potential there IMO
0 - Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 5:40pm #1044939
The Scare Crow RisesParticipantPeople seem to forget how young all these guys are…
Okafor gets soooo much hate on this forum but people forget that this kid has been scouted and scrutinized since he was a Freshmen in H.S, and he was hands down the Best Prospect in the world going into his 1st college season at Duke(One he ended by helping the Blue Devils win a National Title, imagine if he stayed and won another one)
What happened?
Karl Anthony Towns being a great player at the Same Time? Duncan,Dirk and KG made out just fine battling each other out West, all while Shaq dominated the NBA at C…
All these kids can be great at the same time without us spoiled fans arguing who’s better than who because of X Y or Z…
I believe at least 3 of the Big men drafted this year will make the Hall Of Fame barring Injury just based on what I’m seeing already…
Towns will no doubt get there if he does what he’s doing right now for the next decade, rings be dammed right Malone, Barkley, Ewing and countless others…
Okafor doesn’t need your love and support to keep up his production for the next decade and if he’s a 20 and 10 force for that time he’ll get into the Hall, that NCAA title will get him into someone’s Hall of Fame
Porzingas is another future Hall of Fame contender if he stays healthy, he’ll get a few All Star games under his belt by virtue of his production and NY City market/exposure, he looks like a potential terror in every sense of the word, I still wonder what Sam Hinkie would have done had the LAKERS stuck to the script and took OKAFOR 2nd(they will live to regret that in the long run) Kristaps, Nerlens and Joel would have been a nightmare defensively, no way could he pass on him right?
Than we have Turner, Jokic , Kaminsky and Portis
I can see those guys having long productive careers if they get their teams full support from here out…At least 1 of them as to make an All Star game, too much talent and potential there IMO
0 - Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 8:15pm #1044827
festar35ParticipantA lot of people are sleeping on Turner!
Be honest how many of you have actually watched him play frequently? For me I watch nearly every Pacers game and on top of that as much Porzingis as I can as well.
Turner is 19 years old and is actually having an influence on his team winning and losing. Porzingis, KAT, Okafor are all putting up great numbers, but how many of them are actually helping their team win, Turner against the Knicks yesterday really delivered, he shoots outside jumpers and is still hitting a 50%+ clip. He has a great instinct for blocking shots and altering them as well.
The big thing that sticks out for me is his IQ and the fact he just does the little things well. Watch him catch the ball in the post, he doesn’t bring it down he keeps it shoulder height or higher, still gets a nice shot up with very really getting blocked. The big thing that shows his ability is the fact that Indiana is already looking for him in crunch time, week to week he seems to get more 4th quarter touches as the game is on the line and delivers. George and Turner “could” be a very nice duo going forward, all though I do get a bit of the Lillard/Aldridge feel that PG could leave if the team isn’t where he wants it.
I think Turner and Porzingis are 2nd/3rd respectively from this draft behind KAT.
If I am missing something of Porzingis and Okafor as to why he is so much better than Turner, please let me know my Indiana bias may be blurring my vision but at this point I dont see it.
0- Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 8:30pm #1044829
CasualCeltNo, Turner is hot shit, the real deal. That’s why I compared his potential to Anthony Davis. Pat Ewing was the comparison I came up with before the draft.
I saw this coming a Myle away. Even before I knew how to spell his name.
Turner’s blocking shots better than Porzingis and Towns. And he might have the prettiest jump shot of them all.
Turner seems a bit stronger than Towns and Porzingis, and that certainly works to his advantage.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 8:30pm #1044965
CasualCeltNo, Turner is hot shit, the real deal. That’s why I compared his potential to Anthony Davis. Pat Ewing was the comparison I came up with before the draft.
I saw this coming a Myle away. Even before I knew how to spell his name.
Turner’s blocking shots better than Porzingis and Towns. And he might have the prettiest jump shot of them all.
Turner seems a bit stronger than Towns and Porzingis, and that certainly works to his advantage.
0
- Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 8:15pm #1044963
festar35ParticipantA lot of people are sleeping on Turner!
Be honest how many of you have actually watched him play frequently? For me I watch nearly every Pacers game and on top of that as much Porzingis as I can as well.
Turner is 19 years old and is actually having an influence on his team winning and losing. Porzingis, KAT, Okafor are all putting up great numbers, but how many of them are actually helping their team win, Turner against the Knicks yesterday really delivered, he shoots outside jumpers and is still hitting a 50%+ clip. He has a great instinct for blocking shots and altering them as well.
The big thing that sticks out for me is his IQ and the fact he just does the little things well. Watch him catch the ball in the post, he doesn’t bring it down he keeps it shoulder height or higher, still gets a nice shot up with very really getting blocked. The big thing that shows his ability is the fact that Indiana is already looking for him in crunch time, week to week he seems to get more 4th quarter touches as the game is on the line and delivers. George and Turner “could” be a very nice duo going forward, all though I do get a bit of the Lillard/Aldridge feel that PG could leave if the team isn’t where he wants it.
I think Turner and Porzingis are 2nd/3rd respectively from this draft behind KAT.
If I am missing something of Porzingis and Okafor as to why he is so much better than Turner, please let me know my Indiana bias may be blurring my vision but at this point I dont see it.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 9:18pm #1044837
adumParticipantNikola Jokic is the most underrated player in this class by far.
He is definitely a cornerstone type center especially in today’s NBA.
Nikola passing is out of this world compared to his fellow bigs. He’s a natural when it comes to passing and see plays develop. Right now I put him right behind Marc and Bogut when ranking Centers passing. SCRATCH THAT, he is the best passing C in the league sorry I couldn’t hold it back.
Coupled with his array of moves and versatility scoring and solid defense I see nothing but clear sky’s ahead.
0- Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 9:39pm #1044847
festar35ParticipantI like the little bits I’ve seen from him, but haven’t seen very much so can’t really comment.
The thing that sticks out to me is his consistency at the moment, tell me is it as a result of the Nuggets offense or more just him getting adjusted?
0- Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 11:17pm #1045005
adumParticipantA little bit of both.
Don’t get me wrong he’s not a sure thing like KAT but he has the tools to be successful. He just seems to have a great feel for the game. Like most rookies he has ups and downs but the glimpses I’ve seen have caught my attention.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 11:17pm #1044869
adumParticipantA little bit of both.
Don’t get me wrong he’s not a sure thing like KAT but he has the tools to be successful. He just seems to have a great feel for the game. Like most rookies he has ups and downs but the glimpses I’ve seen have caught my attention.
0
- Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 9:39pm #1044983
festar35ParticipantI like the little bits I’ve seen from him, but haven’t seen very much so can’t really comment.
The thing that sticks out to me is his consistency at the moment, tell me is it as a result of the Nuggets offense or more just him getting adjusted?
0
- Posted on: Thu, 02/25/2016 - 9:18pm #1044973
adumParticipantNikola Jokic is the most underrated player in this class by far.
He is definitely a cornerstone type center especially in today’s NBA.
Nikola passing is out of this world compared to his fellow bigs. He’s a natural when it comes to passing and see plays develop. Right now I put him right behind Marc and Bogut when ranking Centers passing. SCRATCH THAT, he is the best passing C in the league sorry I couldn’t hold it back.
Coupled with his array of moves and versatility scoring and solid defense I see nothing but clear sky’s ahead.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 02/26/2016 - 10:58am #1045083
Magic JordanParticipantAs a Lakers fan, I don’t regret taking Russell over Okafor. I regret taking him over Porzingis though absolutely.
Furthermore, at this point in time I would take Turner over Okafor too. Around the time of the draft there is no way I would have said that. His awkward running has been corrected, though he still seems to strike me as an injury prone type of player. That is based off my own eyes, not anything that has happened to him.
It’s kind of a weird scenario with Okafor. He puts up lovely stats for a rookie, but are there any more misleading stats being put up by a player across the league right now? It’s funny, people will label "Good stats bad team guys" when they have a couple of seasons under their belt. Yet people are not applying that label to Okafor, who statistically speaking is a prime example of this. Not only is just about every lineup combination better without Okafor in it. They perform better on both sides of the ball with him not in the game. I am not talking about his RPM, which last time I checked was one of the worst if not THE worst in the league. But every other team oriented metric you can think of as well. The offense is more efficient without him, and the defense is better without him. Exact same lineups perform better with Noel in Okafors place.
I hate to be the guy that says this about rookies, because I am usually the one preaching patience. And I do think he will improve. But I don’t think he will be a franchise cornerstone. His defense is just so poor, he’s not a dominant rebounder for someone his size. He’s not sharing the ball like he was at Duke. All he does is score from the elbows in and grab rebounds that fall into his lap. In what way is that a cornerstone? Only in the sense that 76er fans are desperate for one, and people love his 17 ppg.
Meanwhile, Turner looks like he is a 5 man from this decade. Porzingis has fallen off quite a bit, but he has shown enough to say with ease that he will eventually be a significant force. Booker is an elite shooter and a sneaky good athlete. And Russell is doing things only 1 or 2 other 19 year old PGS have done in the league while being bogged down by a dinosaur of an offense. The difference between Russell and Okafor is, the offense is, or was holding Russell back. In Okafors case, he is the one holding the offense back.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 02/26/2016 - 10:58am #1044947
Magic JordanParticipantAs a Lakers fan, I don’t regret taking Russell over Okafor. I regret taking him over Porzingis though absolutely.
Furthermore, at this point in time I would take Turner over Okafor too. Around the time of the draft there is no way I would have said that. His awkward running has been corrected, though he still seems to strike me as an injury prone type of player. That is based off my own eyes, not anything that has happened to him.
It’s kind of a weird scenario with Okafor. He puts up lovely stats for a rookie, but are there any more misleading stats being put up by a player across the league right now? It’s funny, people will label "Good stats bad team guys" when they have a couple of seasons under their belt. Yet people are not applying that label to Okafor, who statistically speaking is a prime example of this. Not only is just about every lineup combination better without Okafor in it. They perform better on both sides of the ball with him not in the game. I am not talking about his RPM, which last time I checked was one of the worst if not THE worst in the league. But every other team oriented metric you can think of as well. The offense is more efficient without him, and the defense is better without him. Exact same lineups perform better with Noel in Okafors place.
I hate to be the guy that says this about rookies, because I am usually the one preaching patience. And I do think he will improve. But I don’t think he will be a franchise cornerstone. His defense is just so poor, he’s not a dominant rebounder for someone his size. He’s not sharing the ball like he was at Duke. All he does is score from the elbows in and grab rebounds that fall into his lap. In what way is that a cornerstone? Only in the sense that 76er fans are desperate for one, and people love his 17 ppg.
Meanwhile, Turner looks like he is a 5 man from this decade. Porzingis has fallen off quite a bit, but he has shown enough to say with ease that he will eventually be a significant force. Booker is an elite shooter and a sneaky good athlete. And Russell is doing things only 1 or 2 other 19 year old PGS have done in the league while being bogged down by a dinosaur of an offense. The difference between Russell and Okafor is, the offense is, or was holding Russell back. In Okafors case, he is the one holding the offense back.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 02/26/2016 - 4:22pm #1045032
PwhittyParticipantsixers fan here,
i wanted okafor during the draft now wish we had Porzingus. Our twin towers is not quite working out.My question is when i look at the box scores and stats for Okafor he puts up 20 and 10 but he has a negative rating in the box score….why is this and how does it work? ty
0- Posted on: Fri, 02/26/2016 - 6:11pm #1045048
NBAjunkie81Participantso is Porzingus & Towns….. But Phila played most of the year w/ T.J. McConnel, Isaiah Canaan starting at the guard psoitions w/ Nik Stauskus rotating in….
It is the worst guard trio I have personally Ever seen – especially on Defense…. compounding this nightmare, is that the Sixers seem to believe playing an Up Tempo, fast paced, transition game is in their best interest when their Only offensive talent is a 20 y/o Center who is a force on the low block & operates best in a half court set…..
Some analytics are Fantastic – for example PER is a great one…. but other stats like +/- Win Share & a few others really just tell us what we already know…. the problem occurs when we rely too heavily on some (not all) of these stats that were originally desinged for baseball…..
And in baseball the Purpose of the analytics movement was to discern to importance of the individual in a Team game – which is Very difficult in baseball b/c 9 men are on the field…. NBA basketball is a Very different sport & some of the baseball borroed stats like win share have simply been modified w/ no rhyme or reason….
The Win Share stat for example is calculated using a 1 to 3 ratio for games played vs stats…. The man who modified the stat for basketball changed that Ratio to a 1 to 1 ratio & stated that it "felt right.." Unlike PER which is based entirely on basketball mathematics….. & not intuition….. So if a guy is on a Bad team – he’s just not gpoing to have good stats in these categories & to me that defeats the entire purpose…..
Anyone who says Okafor is "holding the offense back" hasn’t watched any Sixers games…. He is the Only player on the court the opposition pays Any attention to…. B/c the Sixers guards are So bad, Okafor Never gets any easy buckets & he often has to go all the way out to the 3 point line to even get the ball b/c his guards just run around the perimeter & just jack up 3 off balanced 3 point shots b/c they can not beat Anyone off the dribble….
I’m not a Sixers fan but it puzzles me how a Historically bad team that won 37 games in the previous 2 years Before Okafor arrived….. And has now won Only 8 games in 54 games….. features some of the Worst defensive players I have ever seen at guard & forward…. Has another 7 foot Center who was supposed to be a DPOY candidate but his Blocked shots stats have tumbled b/c he is helpless on Defense b/c the guards & forwards don;t even Try & the defensiove lane is a Runway for opposing players to do Highlight dunks……
But in spite of All this it’s Okafor’s fault somehow – All of it – it’s All Okafor’s fault???…. I pray this kid’s agent gets him out of that Clown show in Phila…. Okafor is not perfect, he’s got a lot to work on like any Rookie, but the kid is a Beast down low….. When he gets to a team w/ Anyone else who can play he’ll score 25 a game – Easy….
I absolutely Luv Porzingus & Towns – but the T-Wolves are heading towards their 10th consecutive losing season & they are again at the top of the Draft Lottery….. When Melo is out & Porzingus is "Leading" the Knicks they are something like 0 – 8 & Porzingus’ stats fall….
None of that is a knock on either guy – the point is that it’s a TEAM game….. And every Rookie has strengths & weaknesses…. Even Jordan had things to work on…. But I don’t understand how anyone can say w/ a Straight face that Okafor is holding the Sixers offense back!?!?! Seriously!?!? This is a Franchise that has been a Joke since Okafor was Still in High School…..
0 - Posted on: Fri, 02/26/2016 - 6:11pm #1045183
NBAjunkie81Participantso is Porzingus & Towns….. But Phila played most of the year w/ T.J. McConnel, Isaiah Canaan starting at the guard psoitions w/ Nik Stauskus rotating in….
It is the worst guard trio I have personally Ever seen – especially on Defense…. compounding this nightmare, is that the Sixers seem to believe playing an Up Tempo, fast paced, transition game is in their best interest when their Only offensive talent is a 20 y/o Center who is a force on the low block & operates best in a half court set…..
Some analytics are Fantastic – for example PER is a great one…. but other stats like +/- Win Share & a few others really just tell us what we already know…. the problem occurs when we rely too heavily on some (not all) of these stats that were originally desinged for baseball…..
And in baseball the Purpose of the analytics movement was to discern to importance of the individual in a Team game – which is Very difficult in baseball b/c 9 men are on the field…. NBA basketball is a Very different sport & some of the baseball borroed stats like win share have simply been modified w/ no rhyme or reason….
The Win Share stat for example is calculated using a 1 to 3 ratio for games played vs stats…. The man who modified the stat for basketball changed that Ratio to a 1 to 1 ratio & stated that it "felt right.." Unlike PER which is based entirely on basketball mathematics….. & not intuition….. So if a guy is on a Bad team – he’s just not gpoing to have good stats in these categories & to me that defeats the entire purpose…..
Anyone who says Okafor is "holding the offense back" hasn’t watched any Sixers games…. He is the Only player on the court the opposition pays Any attention to…. B/c the Sixers guards are So bad, Okafor Never gets any easy buckets & he often has to go all the way out to the 3 point line to even get the ball b/c his guards just run around the perimeter & just jack up 3 off balanced 3 point shots b/c they can not beat Anyone off the dribble….
I’m not a Sixers fan but it puzzles me how a Historically bad team that won 37 games in the previous 2 years Before Okafor arrived….. And has now won Only 8 games in 54 games….. features some of the Worst defensive players I have ever seen at guard & forward…. Has another 7 foot Center who was supposed to be a DPOY candidate but his Blocked shots stats have tumbled b/c he is helpless on Defense b/c the guards & forwards don;t even Try & the defensiove lane is a Runway for opposing players to do Highlight dunks……
But in spite of All this it’s Okafor’s fault somehow – All of it – it’s All Okafor’s fault???…. I pray this kid’s agent gets him out of that Clown show in Phila…. Okafor is not perfect, he’s got a lot to work on like any Rookie, but the kid is a Beast down low….. When he gets to a team w/ Anyone else who can play he’ll score 25 a game – Easy….
I absolutely Luv Porzingus & Towns – but the T-Wolves are heading towards their 10th consecutive losing season & they are again at the top of the Draft Lottery….. When Melo is out & Porzingus is "Leading" the Knicks they are something like 0 – 8 & Porzingus’ stats fall….
None of that is a knock on either guy – the point is that it’s a TEAM game….. And every Rookie has strengths & weaknesses…. Even Jordan had things to work on…. But I don’t understand how anyone can say w/ a Straight face that Okafor is holding the Sixers offense back!?!?! Seriously!?!? This is a Franchise that has been a Joke since Okafor was Still in High School…..
0
- Posted on: Fri, 02/26/2016 - 4:22pm #1045167
PwhittyParticipantsixers fan here,
i wanted okafor during the draft now wish we had Porzingus. Our twin towers is not quite working out.My question is when i look at the box scores and stats for Okafor he puts up 20 and 10 but he has a negative rating in the box score….why is this and how does it work? ty
0 - Posted on: Fri, 02/26/2016 - 5:59pm #1045044
raybeasParticipantOne of these things is not like the others. Even KP 2ptFG% is 40 points lower than the others. I thought he was a shooter. He’s shooting like Roy Hibbert with range.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 02/26/2016 - 5:59pm #1045179
raybeasParticipantOne of these things is not like the others. Even KP 2ptFG% is 40 points lower than the others. I thought he was a shooter. He’s shooting like Roy Hibbert with range.
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