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- Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 5:53am #63005
high floorParticipantI’ve been in his corner a lot the past 2 years.. but I’m starting to second guess my high opinion on his outlook.
He came into the league well regarded for his defensive ability, but he’s not proving to be effective on that end of the floor. Which is really surprising considering his size, quickness, and heralded IQ coming out of Louisianna, Lafayette. I’m just not seeing much competetiveness there.
On offense he just doesn’t seem engaged. His jumpshot has not improved this year, and his 2.6 free throw attempts per game (60% clip) really hinder the team. If you can’t shoot 3’s.. at a minimum you need to be able to get to the FT line and convert at a league average percentage.
I’m starting to back off this guy. It’s debatable, but he’s in the conversation as a bottom 5 point guard this year in terms of production and helping his team win.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 6:03am #1047108
morestealsthanscoresParticipantI’m undecided about Payton, but I’m definitely decided about this Magic team. Quite simply, Payton could have a great future – but NOT with the Magic.
This team has just been thrown together, and I honestly have no idea what the management is doing. Not only have they got no shooting in the Payton-Oladipo backcourt, they’ve got an old-school centre who isn’t very mobile and can’t block shots. Now, either one of those things is bad enough, but together they’re awful – if you’re going to play half-court, post-based basketball, you surround your big guy with shooters.
Orlando NEEDS a change of direction – this team is absolutely shapeless. Me? I think their most encouraging signs (and definitely their best defense) has come from Oladipo – so I’d trade Payton, trade Vooch, and try and replace them with some young guys that fit their team better.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 6:03am #1046971
morestealsthanscoresParticipantI’m undecided about Payton, but I’m definitely decided about this Magic team. Quite simply, Payton could have a great future – but NOT with the Magic.
This team has just been thrown together, and I honestly have no idea what the management is doing. Not only have they got no shooting in the Payton-Oladipo backcourt, they’ve got an old-school centre who isn’t very mobile and can’t block shots. Now, either one of those things is bad enough, but together they’re awful – if you’re going to play half-court, post-based basketball, you surround your big guy with shooters.
Orlando NEEDS a change of direction – this team is absolutely shapeless. Me? I think their most encouraging signs (and definitely their best defense) has come from Oladipo – so I’d trade Payton, trade Vooch, and try and replace them with some young guys that fit their team better.
0- Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 7:04am #1047120
high floorParticipantYou’re definitely right. Vucevic’s lack of mobility and overall effort on defense will hinder his teams moving forward. I think putting 4 shooters around him would help generate a top 10 offense, but ultimately it’s going to come down to him protecting the paint and being more of a presence on that end of the floor for his teams to succedd in the W/L collumn. If a defensive minded coach like Skiles can’t get it out of him.. I doubt too many others can.
With Payton, you’re spot on in that you have a second starter whose skillset is trending in the wrong direction versus the good to upcoming good NBA teams. GM’s around the league are getting a lot smarter, and I think Orlando would have to get a bit lucky to receive foundational pieces in a trade for both. Both Vuc and Payton just seem like they’re an era or two late..
0 - Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 7:04am #1046983
high floorParticipantYou’re definitely right. Vucevic’s lack of mobility and overall effort on defense will hinder his teams moving forward. I think putting 4 shooters around him would help generate a top 10 offense, but ultimately it’s going to come down to him protecting the paint and being more of a presence on that end of the floor for his teams to succedd in the W/L collumn. If a defensive minded coach like Skiles can’t get it out of him.. I doubt too many others can.
With Payton, you’re spot on in that you have a second starter whose skillset is trending in the wrong direction versus the good to upcoming good NBA teams. GM’s around the league are getting a lot smarter, and I think Orlando would have to get a bit lucky to receive foundational pieces in a trade for both. Both Vuc and Payton just seem like they’re an era or two late..
0 - Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 10:14am #1047139
ballislyfe25ParticipantI agree his best fit may just be with a different team. He seems to be of the mold where he must be the primary ballhandler surrounded by shooting and I don’t think many teams, if any at all, would be interested in basing their offense around Payton’s skillset. He is a unique, crafty young player (just turned 22) that obviously belongs in the league as a rotation player at the worst but I prefer Oladipo to him. He is shooting 37% from 3 this year but like 60% at the line and I’m sure his 3 point percentage would drop with increased volume, as some games he doesn’t shoot any. Coming off the bench with Jennings may work best, as they can split ballhandling duties due to Jennings spot up ability and, as I recall, Payton’s ability to cut and move off of the ball.
As for Orlando being shapeless, they may be just starting to figure out their identity. I don’t know if Scott Skiles is the guy but an Oladipo/Fournier/Hezonja/Gordon/Vucevic group definitely could work together and compliment one another on each side of the ball. I I’m a Tobias Harris fan (Long Island guy) but they were trimming the fat with him and I think the move will work out well for both Orlando and Detroit and the players involved.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 10:14am #1047003
ballislyfe25ParticipantI agree his best fit may just be with a different team. He seems to be of the mold where he must be the primary ballhandler surrounded by shooting and I don’t think many teams, if any at all, would be interested in basing their offense around Payton’s skillset. He is a unique, crafty young player (just turned 22) that obviously belongs in the league as a rotation player at the worst but I prefer Oladipo to him. He is shooting 37% from 3 this year but like 60% at the line and I’m sure his 3 point percentage would drop with increased volume, as some games he doesn’t shoot any. Coming off the bench with Jennings may work best, as they can split ballhandling duties due to Jennings spot up ability and, as I recall, Payton’s ability to cut and move off of the ball.
As for Orlando being shapeless, they may be just starting to figure out their identity. I don’t know if Scott Skiles is the guy but an Oladipo/Fournier/Hezonja/Gordon/Vucevic group definitely could work together and compliment one another on each side of the ball. I I’m a Tobias Harris fan (Long Island guy) but they were trimming the fat with him and I think the move will work out well for both Orlando and Detroit and the players involved.
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- Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 6:21am #1047112
OaktownWarriorsParticipantAll very true…good defensive player, can run a team pretty well. But Payton couldn’t win a game of H.O.R.S.E because he can’t shoot the mid-range or 3pt shoot. Yes, he needs to hit the gym and shoot jumper after jumper this summer. I don’t think Scott Skiles offense of style is really good for Payton. Payton would be better in more up tempo team?
0 - Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 6:21am #1046975
OaktownWarriorsParticipantAll very true…good defensive player, can run a team pretty well. But Payton couldn’t win a game of H.O.R.S.E because he can’t shoot the mid-range or 3pt shoot. Yes, he needs to hit the gym and shoot jumper after jumper this summer. I don’t think Scott Skiles offense of style is really good for Payton. Payton would be better in more up tempo team?
0 - Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 10:10am #1047137
TheGuyParticipantI’d take Payton, today over whover the Knicks and Nets’s PGs are, Neto, Ish Smith, Bayless/MCW, Beverly, Whoever Suns’s PG atm with Bledsoe and Knight out, Mudiay, D Russell, Rose. So, no not 5 worst.
He’s a very fine player, he’s not a sexy offesnive scorer/shooter that most PGs have become, he’s a throwback PG. Runs the offense and sets up teammates very well. Excellent on ball defender and can be an all defense player. It’s a bad fit for him in Orlando (who is probably the worst 3 point shooting team) which highlights Payton’s lack of shooting even more. Magic might have to move on from either Payton or Oladipo if they can’t improve from deep, but let’s not rush to judgement. Than again, that’s what everyone wants to do, is make a defenitive statement about everything right away. Give it some time, he’s only in his 2nd year. He’ll never be a superstar, and he’ll have his weaknesses (like every player) but on the right team, he will be a very good player.
You don’t have to be a 20 PPG scorer to be a good player.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 10:10am #1047001
TheGuyParticipantI’d take Payton, today over whover the Knicks and Nets’s PGs are, Neto, Ish Smith, Bayless/MCW, Beverly, Whoever Suns’s PG atm with Bledsoe and Knight out, Mudiay, D Russell, Rose. So, no not 5 worst.
He’s a very fine player, he’s not a sexy offesnive scorer/shooter that most PGs have become, he’s a throwback PG. Runs the offense and sets up teammates very well. Excellent on ball defender and can be an all defense player. It’s a bad fit for him in Orlando (who is probably the worst 3 point shooting team) which highlights Payton’s lack of shooting even more. Magic might have to move on from either Payton or Oladipo if they can’t improve from deep, but let’s not rush to judgement. Than again, that’s what everyone wants to do, is make a defenitive statement about everything right away. Give it some time, he’s only in his 2nd year. He’ll never be a superstar, and he’ll have his weaknesses (like every player) but on the right team, he will be a very good player.
You don’t have to be a 20 PPG scorer to be a good player.
0- Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 2:34pm #1047165
i’m jus so offendedParticipantI logged in just to ask you if you were serious about taking Eldrid Payton over D’Angelo Russell?
0 - Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 2:34pm #1047029
i’m jus so offendedParticipantI logged in just to ask you if you were serious about taking Eldrid Payton over D’Angelo Russell?
0 - Posted on: Wed, 03/09/2016 - 6:05am #1047152
Al PerezParticipantD’Angelo Russell, Mudiay, Rose?!? Behind Payton……Derrick Rose isn’t MVP Vintage Drose anymore but come on?!? That’s no good…….Mudiay and Payton actually are "somewhat" similar into what they bring to a team from an offensive standpoint except Mudiay is 2 years younger and much more physically bigger….Mudiay clearly has more potential on that end of the floor while Payton who is suppose to be this elite defensive stopper hasn’t really shown much on that end of the floor….onto Russell that is just downright ludicrous he is having one of the best seasons ever for a guard his age and this is all while he has received all this bust talk all along….Russell is a clear superstar in the making of he keeps improving…I liken him to Damian Lillard….yes he has that type of scoring talent and potential…he’s limited athletically but his skill and intangibles are highly advanced….Payton couldn’t touch Russell’s potential….I’m a huge fan of him, the Lakers made a gamble taking him over Okafor (Porzingis is now the obv 2nd best pick in the draft but he wasn’t really in discussion to go there). Okafor is very talented but Russell is clearly going to be more valuable to his team going forward than him….Bravo Lakers you made the right pick.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 03/09/2016 - 6:05am #1047287
Al PerezParticipantD’Angelo Russell, Mudiay, Rose?!? Behind Payton……Derrick Rose isn’t MVP Vintage Drose anymore but come on?!? That’s no good…….Mudiay and Payton actually are "somewhat" similar into what they bring to a team from an offensive standpoint except Mudiay is 2 years younger and much more physically bigger….Mudiay clearly has more potential on that end of the floor while Payton who is suppose to be this elite defensive stopper hasn’t really shown much on that end of the floor….onto Russell that is just downright ludicrous he is having one of the best seasons ever for a guard his age and this is all while he has received all this bust talk all along….Russell is a clear superstar in the making of he keeps improving…I liken him to Damian Lillard….yes he has that type of scoring talent and potential…he’s limited athletically but his skill and intangibles are highly advanced….Payton couldn’t touch Russell’s potential….I’m a huge fan of him, the Lakers made a gamble taking him over Okafor (Porzingis is now the obv 2nd best pick in the draft but he wasn’t really in discussion to go there). Okafor is very talented but Russell is clearly going to be more valuable to his team going forward than him….Bravo Lakers you made the right pick.
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- Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 10:58am #1047143
circumlocution75Participant2013 Victor Oladipo #2 overall…… 2014 Aaron Gordon #4 overall…….. & 2015 Mario Hezonja #5 overall….
Orlando acquired Elfrid Payton later in the same 2014 Draft Lottery where they landed Gordon….. Philadelphia had already Drafted Joel Embiid w/ the #3 overall pick…… but Phila also owned the New Orleans Pelicans 2014 – #10 overall pick….. which they had acquired at the 2013 NBA Draft….. When New Orleans traded their 2013 #6 overall pick Nerlens Noel & their 2014 – 1st round pick for Phila PG Jru Holiday…..
That 2nd pick turned out to be #10 in the 2014 Lottery….. Orlando also had 2 picks in 2014 & they were picking #12…… right behind Phila at #10 & it was rumored they like Payton A Lot…… Denver was picking #11…… & b/c Phila already had Drafted 2013 Rookie of the Year MCW …… & B/c Denver had Ty Lawson & Randy Foye under contract…… it appeared that Orlando was locked in on Elfrid Payton at #12 overall…… b/c neither Phila or Denver needed a PG……
Except Phila floated a rumor that they were shopping MCW….. & planned to Draft PG Payton at #10 overall….. Orlando panicked & offered Phila their 2017 First round pick BACK …… Orlando acquired the Sixers 2017 – 1st round pick in the 4 team Dwight Howard / Andrew Bynum Trade…….
Orlando returned the 2017 pick & Phila drafted Payton…. two spots later Orlando Drafted Dario Saric (who Phila liked a lot in 2013 but Saric backed out of the Draft) …… Phila & Orlando swapped Payton & Saric & Phila’s 2017 – 1st round pick was Returned……
10 years ago a Payton / Oladipo back court would have been something really special….. But the current NBA….. just Punishes teams who do not have guards who hit the outside shot & especially the 3 point shot…… & b/c Oladipo is also more of a slasher than a shooter…. that fact multiplies Payton’s shortcomings….. This is why Skiles is playing Fournier so much……. So when we consider that Phila will almost certainly Still be a losing team next year – giving up that 2017 First rounder Really hurts……
0 - Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 10:58am #1047007
circumlocution75Participant2013 Victor Oladipo #2 overall…… 2014 Aaron Gordon #4 overall…….. & 2015 Mario Hezonja #5 overall….
Orlando acquired Elfrid Payton later in the same 2014 Draft Lottery where they landed Gordon….. Philadelphia had already Drafted Joel Embiid w/ the #3 overall pick…… but Phila also owned the New Orleans Pelicans 2014 – #10 overall pick….. which they had acquired at the 2013 NBA Draft….. When New Orleans traded their 2013 #6 overall pick Nerlens Noel & their 2014 – 1st round pick for Phila PG Jru Holiday…..
That 2nd pick turned out to be #10 in the 2014 Lottery….. Orlando also had 2 picks in 2014 & they were picking #12…… right behind Phila at #10 & it was rumored they like Payton A Lot…… Denver was picking #11…… & b/c Phila already had Drafted 2013 Rookie of the Year MCW …… & B/c Denver had Ty Lawson & Randy Foye under contract…… it appeared that Orlando was locked in on Elfrid Payton at #12 overall…… b/c neither Phila or Denver needed a PG……
Except Phila floated a rumor that they were shopping MCW….. & planned to Draft PG Payton at #10 overall….. Orlando panicked & offered Phila their 2017 First round pick BACK …… Orlando acquired the Sixers 2017 – 1st round pick in the 4 team Dwight Howard / Andrew Bynum Trade…….
Orlando returned the 2017 pick & Phila drafted Payton…. two spots later Orlando Drafted Dario Saric (who Phila liked a lot in 2013 but Saric backed out of the Draft) …… Phila & Orlando swapped Payton & Saric & Phila’s 2017 – 1st round pick was Returned……
10 years ago a Payton / Oladipo back court would have been something really special….. But the current NBA….. just Punishes teams who do not have guards who hit the outside shot & especially the 3 point shot…… & b/c Oladipo is also more of a slasher than a shooter…. that fact multiplies Payton’s shortcomings….. This is why Skiles is playing Fournier so much……. So when we consider that Phila will almost certainly Still be a losing team next year – giving up that 2017 First rounder Really hurts……
0 - Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 11:40am #1047149
Robb_CParticipantHe plays great Defense, he will be fine.. Point Guards like him will always have a roster spot, He just needs to grow into the League more
0 - Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 11:40am #1047013
Robb_CParticipantHe plays great Defense, he will be fine.. Point Guards like him will always have a roster spot, He just needs to grow into the League more
0 - Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 3:57pm #1047045
VRod305ParticipantI think he’s just sort of a whatever guy. He’s probably like the 17th best point guard in the league. Keep in mind though that the top 4 are among the 10 best players in the league.
I found it weird when we took him and traded him to Orlando, Bill Simmons went crazy and was saying how he really liked this guy. I doubt he saw him play much at L-L, but got this idea from videos and workouts. I would say I believe he can be a starting point guard, but he isn’t a top 10 guy among PGs.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 03/08/2016 - 3:57pm #1047181
VRod305ParticipantI think he’s just sort of a whatever guy. He’s probably like the 17th best point guard in the league. Keep in mind though that the top 4 are among the 10 best players in the league.
I found it weird when we took him and traded him to Orlando, Bill Simmons went crazy and was saying how he really liked this guy. I doubt he saw him play much at L-L, but got this idea from videos and workouts. I would say I believe he can be a starting point guard, but he isn’t a top 10 guy among PGs.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 03/10/2016 - 3:21am #1047419
BennyLogParticipantGive him time. Not every player gets the nba game right away. Sometimes it takes years to develop he is still young. This is the show me now generation nobody has any patience anymore. Funny how everyone was calling d russel a bust and now hes blowing up. Some guys just take longer to get comfortable
0 - Posted on: Thu, 03/10/2016 - 3:21am #1047286
BennyLogParticipantGive him time. Not every player gets the nba game right away. Sometimes it takes years to develop he is still young. This is the show me now generation nobody has any patience anymore. Funny how everyone was calling d russel a bust and now hes blowing up. Some guys just take longer to get comfortable
0 - Posted on: Thu, 03/10/2016 - 3:24am #1047421
BennyLogParticipantAnd as much as i love his crazy hair i think he needs to shave it off this off-season and het a fresh start. Its amazing how refreshed you feel after getting that much hair off your head
0 - Posted on: Thu, 03/10/2016 - 3:24am #1047288
BennyLogParticipantAnd as much as i love his crazy hair i think he needs to shave it off this off-season and het a fresh start. Its amazing how refreshed you feel after getting that much hair off your head
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