[valentine]

 Every year, casual draftniks and anonymous scouts declare that the draft for that year is only x number of players deep.

This past year we heard there was a distinct drop off in talent after Towns, Russell (lol), Okafor, Mudiay, and Winslow (lol). If you didn’t have a top 5 pick you were left with inferior leftovers like the 7’3" KG clone (photo negative?) or a bunch of awesome prospects who just weren’t cool enough to sit at the swag table.

Then in the weeks before the draft we heard from a bunch of anonymous scouts that there were 15 prospects in that draft, ending with Booker and Oubre.

My fellow Celtics fans were distraught at that news, since we had the 16th pick.

But it was all a bunch of B.S.

Any scout who says a given draft is only 8 or 10 or 15 or 20 prospects deep, is a crappy scout. Period. They just didn’t do their homework, and/or their familiarity with all the prospects has bred irrational contempt.

Like, Bobby Portis didn’t have a big WOW factor, so he was written off as a great prospect. Now he’s looking like a future 20/10 guy with elite positional and help defense.

WOW. 

getting a better version of Greg Monroe in the 20s, two weeks before the real Greg Monroe signs a trillion dollar contract to form the worst front court defense in the league next to Jabari. Oh, and Portis would have stretched the floor much better than Monroe, making even more sense for the Bucks.

It almost doesn’t matter where your team drafts, there’s going to be a good NBA player available.

Teams that don’t appreciate late first round or second round picks are the same teams with crappy GMs and scouting departments.

Fans that think the Boston Celtics are stuck on a treadmill are crappy draft evaluators, every single one of them.  They lack the ability to realize that great players are found at all levels of the draft, and often beyond the second round.

For the most part, it’s not where you pick, it’s who is in charge of making the pick.

 

 

 

 

[T Rex]

Here’s a perfect example:

 

 Player 1:   6′ 10.5"w/o shoes  225lbs 7′ 2" wingspan,  9′ 0" standing reach.  

 Player 2: 6′ 9.25"w/o shoes  216lbs 7′ 3.25" wingspan, 9′ 3.5" standing reach.  

 Both players have similar athleticism, similar perimeter-based skill sets, similar slight frames that leads them to avoid banging in the post. They are also within 3+ months age of each other. Player 2 is considered to have terrible intangibles, despite having lottery talent. Player 1 is considered the favorite to be the #1 pick next year, despite looking like he’ll be ineligible for this entire coming college season. Player 2 just went undrafted, but has already shown major talent in the NBA preseason. http://www.youtube.com/watch

[T Rex]

Here’s a perfect example:

 

 Player 1:   6′ 10.5"w/o shoes  225lbs 7′ 2" wingspan,  9′ 0" standing reach.  

 Player 2: 6′ 9.25"w/o shoes  216lbs 7′ 3.25" wingspan, 9′ 3.5" standing reach.  

 Both players have similar athleticism, similar perimeter-based skill sets, similar slight frames that leads them to avoid banging in the post. They are also within 3+ months age of each other. Player 2 is considered to have terrible intangibles, despite having lottery talent. Player 1 is considered the favorite to be the #1 pick next year, despite looking like he’ll be ineligible for this entire coming college season. Player 2 just went undrafted, but has already shown major talent in the NBA preseason. http://www.youtube.com/watch

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 If you are so confident in the Celtics picks, why do you spend multiple threads a week to try to justify your players?  Celtics have a fair roster and an exceptional coach.  A coach that I consider to be top 6 or 7 already.  Brad Stevens covers up the OBVIOUS deficiencies in this roster.  5’8", 6’2", 6’3" 6’3" are the sizes of the majority of their guard rotation.  They don’t have a top 30 player in the league, and their best player typically gives up as many as he gets.  I admire that you are excited about your team, as you should be.  To act like the Celtics are just draft gurus though is pretty ridiclous.  Having mediocre players (I.E no superstar, or potential superstar no matter how much you want to say Smart is the next Harden) is a result of their mediocre draft position.  That is all.  

They play in a historically weak conference.  They have a great coach and a mediocre roster at best.  If Brad Stevens decides to take a job everybody knows he is waiting for (one of the big 5 colleges) the Celtics will be the new 76ers.  8th seed and out every year.  I mean that still might be the result even with Brad Stevens scheming their way to victories to make up for the obviously medicore roster that Ainge has assembled.  And will continue to assemble, because NO free agent wants to play in Boston.  When you do finally decide to cash in and get a superstar it will cost you about 4 of your rotational players.  

Sure you have like all of the Nets draft picks for the next 63 years.  I guess that prevents the need to truely bottom out.  But to act like the success of the Celtics last year was a result of some genius drafting is just as ridiculous as most of your posts.  It’s because you have a brilliant coach.  Hiring him was Ainge’s 3rd best move he has made as a GM.  The first two resulted in a championship…. Albeit only 1.

You are such a Celtics homer, it’s like your Bill Simmons down syndrome cousin or something.  

 

[T Rex]

 Leave my D.S. out of this. I’m smart enough to stay off the short Buss, unlike you.

 

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 The same short Buss that traded for Chris Paul, Pau Gasol and Dwight Howard?  Yeah I ride that Buss.  If Short Buss could keep his player evaluation and have Ainges obvious gift for hiring coaches then he would be okay.  Instead Buss is  pretty good with personel, and terrible with coaches.  Pretty much the polar oppostite of Ainge.  

[T Rex]

 Ainge isn’t good with personnel? This roster might be the deepest, 1-15, in the recent history of the NBA.

[T Rex]

 Ainge isn’t good with personnel? This roster might be the deepest, 1-15, in the recent history of the NBA.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 The same short Buss that traded for Chris Paul, Pau Gasol and Dwight Howard?  Yeah I ride that Buss.  If Short Buss could keep his player evaluation and have Ainges obvious gift for hiring coaches then he would be okay.  Instead Buss is  pretty good with personel, and terrible with coaches.  Pretty much the polar oppostite of Ainge.  

[T Rex]

 Leave my D.S. out of this. I’m smart enough to stay off the short Buss, unlike you.

 

 

 

[T Rex]

 As a Laker fan you should know exactly what I’m talking about. Your 2nd round point guard is distinctly better, with better upside, than your #2 point bust.

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

How can someone bust before they’ve played an NBA game?

Yes Jordan Clarkson was a great find, and a great draft choice.  Not quite the same as picking guys in the middle of the first round.  Where you commonly find older, but good collegiate players that are usually more ready to contribute to an NBA team from day 1 than 19 year olds.  Lakers plucked him out of the abyss.

If you want to say Ainge passing on Giannis and Rudy Gobert for Kelly Olynyk is the same thing… then go ahead.  Great.  James Young??  Stellar drafting by Ainge.  

You have a bunch of mediocre players, or players that put up great stats and have a mediocre impact (I. Thomas).  All that has happened is the Celtics have taken mediocre players, with mediocre picks.  Nothing wrong with that, and due to their coach they have assembled a really good TEAM.  To say it is because Ainge is a draft mastermind would be terribly wrong.

 

 

 

[T Rex]

 You keep talking about Ainge for some reason. I can certainly understand how he could haunt Lakers’ fans, but try to stick to the subject. Any fan of any team should have optimism that a stud can be drafted even in the 2nd round.

It’s all about whether the right pick is made.

Like when the Celtics drafted Marcus Smart right in front of the Lakers, lol. Too bad Lakers didn’t draft Nurkic. It’s all about the choices made.

 

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Randle will have a better career than Marcus Smart.  And Aaron Gordon for that matter.  

Smart will be a very important piece on a good team.  Randle could be a 20 ppg scorer who plays good defense from the four spot.  I’m surprised someone like you who doesn’t place heavy emphasis on empty stats such as blocks can’t see that.

 

[T Rex]

 And I’m surprised you look at Randle and see good defense.

 

 

[T Rex]

 And I’m surprised you look at Randle and see good defense.

 

 

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

Yea, any team can have optimism that a stud player can be drafted in the 2nd round. But Your optimism is different.. It’s annoying. Every freakin player is suddenley a superstar in the Celtics for you. I bet if Rozier were in another team, you wouldn’t be saying all these he’ll be an all-star crap. 

And what has D’angelo Russel done that you hate him so much? It seems like he bullied you in HS or something lol the way you bash him.

 

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

Yea, any team can have optimism that a stud player can be drafted in the 2nd round. But Your optimism is different.. It’s annoying. Every freakin player is suddenley a superstar in the Celtics for you. I bet if Rozier were in another team, you wouldn’t be saying all these he’ll be an all-star crap. 

And what has D’angelo Russel done that you hate him so much? It seems like he bullied you in HS or something lol the way you bash him.

 

[T Rex]

 I was comparing Rozier to Westbrook weeks before the draft. Don’t make me bump the thread bro. 

I’ll do it….

Russell took part in a fraud. One workout against Rozier and Grant and Russell would have been exposed.

Now every LA lawyer is ready to press charges and sue.

 

 

 

 

[T Rex]

 I was comparing Rozier to Westbrook weeks before the draft. Don’t make me bump the thread bro. 

I’ll do it….

Russell took part in a fraud. One workout against Rozier and Grant and Russell would have been exposed.

Now every LA lawyer is ready to press charges and sue.

 

 

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Randle will have a better career than Marcus Smart.  And Aaron Gordon for that matter.  

Smart will be a very important piece on a good team.  Randle could be a 20 ppg scorer who plays good defense from the four spot.  I’m surprised someone like you who doesn’t place heavy emphasis on empty stats such as blocks can’t see that.

 

[T Rex]

 You keep talking about Ainge for some reason. I can certainly understand how he could haunt Lakers’ fans, but try to stick to the subject. Any fan of any team should have optimism that a stud can be drafted even in the 2nd round.

It’s all about whether the right pick is made.

Like when the Celtics drafted Marcus Smart right in front of the Lakers, lol. Too bad Lakers didn’t draft Nurkic. It’s all about the choices made.

 

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

How can someone bust before they’ve played an NBA game?

Yes Jordan Clarkson was a great find, and a great draft choice.  Not quite the same as picking guys in the middle of the first round.  Where you commonly find older, but good collegiate players that are usually more ready to contribute to an NBA team from day 1 than 19 year olds.  Lakers plucked him out of the abyss.

If you want to say Ainge passing on Giannis and Rudy Gobert for Kelly Olynyk is the same thing… then go ahead.  Great.  James Young??  Stellar drafting by Ainge.  

You have a bunch of mediocre players, or players that put up great stats and have a mediocre impact (I. Thomas).  All that has happened is the Celtics have taken mediocre players, with mediocre picks.  Nothing wrong with that, and due to their coach they have assembled a really good TEAM.  To say it is because Ainge is a draft mastermind would be terribly wrong.

 

 

 

[T Rex]

 As a Laker fan you should know exactly what I’m talking about. Your 2nd round point guard is distinctly better, with better upside, than your #2 point bust.

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 If you are so confident in the Celtics picks, why do you spend multiple threads a week to try to justify your players?  Celtics have a fair roster and an exceptional coach.  A coach that I consider to be top 6 or 7 already.  Brad Stevens covers up the OBVIOUS deficiencies in this roster.  5’8", 6’2", 6’3" 6’3" are the sizes of the majority of their guard rotation.  They don’t have a top 30 player in the league, and their best player typically gives up as many as he gets.  I admire that you are excited about your team, as you should be.  To act like the Celtics are just draft gurus though is pretty ridiclous.  Having mediocre players (I.E no superstar, or potential superstar no matter how much you want to say Smart is the next Harden) is a result of their mediocre draft position.  That is all.  

They play in a historically weak conference.  They have a great coach and a mediocre roster at best.  If Brad Stevens decides to take a job everybody knows he is waiting for (one of the big 5 colleges) the Celtics will be the new 76ers.  8th seed and out every year.  I mean that still might be the result even with Brad Stevens scheming their way to victories to make up for the obviously medicore roster that Ainge has assembled.  And will continue to assemble, because NO free agent wants to play in Boston.  When you do finally decide to cash in and get a superstar it will cost you about 4 of your rotational players.  

Sure you have like all of the Nets draft picks for the next 63 years.  I guess that prevents the need to truely bottom out.  But to act like the success of the Celtics last year was a result of some genius drafting is just as ridiculous as most of your posts.  It’s because you have a brilliant coach.  Hiring him was Ainge’s 3rd best move he has made as a GM.  The first two resulted in a championship…. Albeit only 1.

You are such a Celtics homer, it’s like your Bill Simmons down syndrome cousin or something.  

 

[T Rex]

 Here’s another (imperfect) example, using the first pick and the last pick of the 2012 draft.

 

career per 36 minutes:

Player From To G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS 1

 Kyrie Irving 2012 2015 256 256 8832 7.9 17.5 .453 1.9 4.8 .390 6.0 12.7 .477 4.2 4.8 .862 0.8 2.9 3.7 5.9 1.5 0.3 3.0 2.3 21.9pts

 Isaiah Thomas 2012 2015 283 154 8001 6.5 14.8 .441 2.0 5.6 .363 4.5 9.2 .488 4.7 5.5 .860 0.7 2.4 3.1 5.9 1.2 0.1 2.7 2.8 19.9pts

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi

 

 

 

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

How about compare Anthony Davis and Robert Sacre if you’re gonna compare first and last picks. 

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

How about compare Anthony Davis and Robert Sacre if you’re gonna compare first and last picks. 

[T Rex]

 Here’s another (imperfect) example, using the first pick and the last pick of the 2012 draft.

 

career per 36 minutes:

Player From To G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS 1

 Kyrie Irving 2012 2015 256 256 8832 7.9 17.5 .453 1.9 4.8 .390 6.0 12.7 .477 4.2 4.8 .862 0.8 2.9 3.7 5.9 1.5 0.3 3.0 2.3 21.9pts

 Isaiah Thomas 2012 2015 283 154 8001 6.5 14.8 .441 2.0 5.6 .363 4.5 9.2 .488 4.7 5.5 .860 0.7 2.4 3.1 5.9 1.2 0.1 2.7 2.8 19.9pts

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi

 

 

 

[ZachAttackParticipant]

 Well… 12 comments and 2 people.

Anyways, I think we should just wait til the season starts to say the Celtics are excellent drafters and that D’Angelo Russel is a bust. I think that we should also wait for the season to start to criticize Danny Ainge. As annoying as it is for T Rex to hype the Celtics as much as he does. We can honestly not say how good or bad the Celtics drafting skills are until we at least at the very least see one season of both guys in the NBA.

On to T Rex, yeah you found an excellent soon to be All Star in Marcus Smart, not as good of a player as James Harden, but still a good pick up. But then you also F’d up in that same draft by selecting James Young over guys like Rodney Hood, or Jordan Clarkson. Now, the Lakers also picked up some talent in Jordan Clarkson, but they have also screwed up in drafting just as the Celtics have.

T Rex, your main point was that drafting position is soooo overrated. Now, that’s not necessarily true. I mean, more often than not, you’ll find that the #1 pick is better than #15. It just normally happens. Not all the time (Kobe, Malone, and of course, the Anthony Bennett Draft) but generally, the first pick is one of the best if not the best. So, it’s not fair to bring up #1 and #60 pick in the 2011 NBA Draft because that is something that happens once in a million years. That’s the only time that I can think of that the first and last pick were that similar.

My final point is that every team has their good picks and bad picks. My Jazz picked up John Stockton and Karl Malone both outside the lottery, but then we have also screwed up in picking Ryan Humphreys at fourteenth, and Kris Humphries at pick #14. That stuff happens. Every team strikes gold some years and loses others.

So, you can’t say that draft position is completely overrated. But you can’t really say that a franchise sucks at drafting. The draft is a big win or lose games. You can’t predict injuries for a guy like Greg Oden, or drug problems like Michael Beasley. You just have to do your best at scouting and hope that injuries or other problems don’t follow.

Man… this is the longest post I’ve ever written. I don’t think that I’ve even written an essay this long.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hype Machine]

 Zachattack…if ur 15yo as u claim…and joined in January 2011..that meant you were just 10 years old at the time of registration.

Seriously, catfishing has gotten so bad in the mormon states that even nbadraft forums arent safe anymore.

 

[Hype Machine]

 Zachattack…if ur 15yo as u claim…and joined in January 2011..that meant you were just 10 years old at the time of registration.

Seriously, catfishing has gotten so bad in the mormon states that even nbadraft forums arent safe anymore.

 

[ZachAttackParticipant]

 I was 10 when I joined. I’m not lying with you… And I was reading this forum for a year or 2 before that.

[ZachAttackParticipant]

 When I sent you the voice recordings for the podcast… Didn’t I sound like a middle aged woman or a 14 year old boy?

[ZachAttackParticipant]

 When I sent you the voice recordings for the podcast… Didn’t I sound like a middle aged woman or a 14 year old boy?

[ZachAttackParticipant]

 I was 10 when I joined. I’m not lying with you… And I was reading this forum for a year or 2 before that.

[ZachAttackParticipant]

 Well… 12 comments and 2 people.

Anyways, I think we should just wait til the season starts to say the Celtics are excellent drafters and that D’Angelo Russel is a bust. I think that we should also wait for the season to start to criticize Danny Ainge. As annoying as it is for T Rex to hype the Celtics as much as he does. We can honestly not say how good or bad the Celtics drafting skills are until we at least at the very least see one season of both guys in the NBA.

On to T Rex, yeah you found an excellent soon to be All Star in Marcus Smart, not as good of a player as James Harden, but still a good pick up. But then you also F’d up in that same draft by selecting James Young over guys like Rodney Hood, or Jordan Clarkson. Now, the Lakers also picked up some talent in Jordan Clarkson, but they have also screwed up in drafting just as the Celtics have.

T Rex, your main point was that drafting position is soooo overrated. Now, that’s not necessarily true. I mean, more often than not, you’ll find that the #1 pick is better than #15. It just normally happens. Not all the time (Kobe, Malone, and of course, the Anthony Bennett Draft) but generally, the first pick is one of the best if not the best. So, it’s not fair to bring up #1 and #60 pick in the 2011 NBA Draft because that is something that happens once in a million years. That’s the only time that I can think of that the first and last pick were that similar.

My final point is that every team has their good picks and bad picks. My Jazz picked up John Stockton and Karl Malone both outside the lottery, but then we have also screwed up in picking Ryan Humphreys at fourteenth, and Kris Humphries at pick #14. That stuff happens. Every team strikes gold some years and loses others.

So, you can’t say that draft position is completely overrated. But you can’t really say that a franchise sucks at drafting. The draft is a big win or lose games. You can’t predict injuries for a guy like Greg Oden, or drug problems like Michael Beasley. You just have to do your best at scouting and hope that injuries or other problems don’t follow.

Man… this is the longest post I’ve ever written. I don’t think that I’ve even written an essay this long.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chariot Org]

 This thread now has an official video.

 

Draft Position is Overrated:

http://www.youtube.com/watch

 

[Chariot Org]

 This thread now has an official video.

 

Draft Position is Overrated:

http://www.youtube.com/watch

 

[Hype Machine]

 Haha why do I feel like ive just watched a nazi propoganda film.

[Hype Machine]

 Haha why do I feel like ive just watched a nazi propoganda film.

[Author]

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