[scarlson2345Participant]

 I was thinking about the state of PG’s in the league right now and it seems like the position is becoming more and more dominated by size and athleticism. The more that this continues the less effective I see smaller PG’s becoming. Especially as there are not too many elite point guard prospects in the league now or on the horizon that are below 6’2".

I see this trend continuing and size/athleticism being almost a need for starting point guards. Obviously there are still some very good pgs that do not have great size as they get older each year and the young 6’4"-6’6" guys develop it is going to become more and more difficult for them.

CP3 vs. Exum or MCW now is a joke in Paul’s favor obviously but what about 3-5 years from now when he is a step slower, might be tough for him to still dominate.

Big PG’s: classifying this by 6’3" or above

Curry (not big I know but still 6’3"), Kyrie 6’3", Rose 6’3", Westbrook: 6’4", Dragic 6’3", Wall 6’4", Smart 6’4", Russell 6’5", MCW 6’6", Jrue 6’4", Mudiay 6’5", Lillard 6’3", Rubio/Lavine 6’4"/6’5", Jackson 6’3", Elfrid 6’4", Exum 6’6", Jerian Grant 6’4"/5"

Small PG’s 6’3" and below

CP3 6’0", Tony Parker 6’2" (but small gerally) Conley 6’1", Rondo and Bledso both 6’1" but pretty big, Kemba 6’1", Lowry 6’0", Lawson 5’11", Teague 6’2"

Don’t get me wrong, there are still some amazing PG’s in the smaller collumn, but not too many of them are still young and on the upswing of their career where most of the big ones are.

How about the PG prospects coming down the pipe now? Any small or big that stand out as being legit NBA prospects that will push this one way or the other? What do you guys think, is size and the PG the future and going to become a neccesity? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

Only legit small point guard in the high school ranks is Dennis Smith. Smith is 6’1" with a 6’3" wingspan.

There’s a lot of great big guard prospects in the 2016 recruiting class / 2017 draft class. De’Aaron Fox stands at 6’4", Lonzo Ball 6’5", Frank Jackson and Kobi Simmons 6’5". Also, some believe Malik Monk and Markelle Fultz can transition to the point guard spot at the college level and they both stand at 6’4".

In the 2017 recruiting class / 2018 draft class is no different. Trevon Duval is 6’3", Jalek Felton is 6’3", and Troy Brown stands at 6’6".

And the 2018 recruting class / 2019 draft class Javonte Smart stands at 6’4" and looks like an elite prospect.

 

I don’t believe it will become an neccesity, but most point guards now are combo guards w/ a point guard body (Russell Westbrook). I believe NBA GM’s and scouts covet the taller and more athletic guards because they are versitile and can play more than one position. 

 

 

 

 

[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

Only legit small point guard in the high school ranks is Dennis Smith. Smith is 6’1" with a 6’3" wingspan.

There’s a lot of great big guard prospects in the 2016 recruiting class / 2017 draft class. De’Aaron Fox stands at 6’4", Lonzo Ball 6’5", Frank Jackson and Kobi Simmons 6’5". Also, some believe Malik Monk and Markelle Fultz can transition to the point guard spot at the college level and they both stand at 6’4".

In the 2017 recruiting class / 2018 draft class is no different. Trevon Duval is 6’3", Jalek Felton is 6’3", and Troy Brown stands at 6’6".

And the 2018 recruting class / 2019 draft class Javonte Smart stands at 6’4" and looks like an elite prospect.

 

I don’t believe it will become an neccesity, but most point guards now are combo guards w/ a point guard body (Russell Westbrook). I believe NBA GM’s and scouts covet the taller and more athletic guards because they are versitile and can play more than one position. 

 

 

 

 

[Miko4rm206Participant]

Kinda wierd aint it. The PF/C are getting Smaller and the PGs are getting Bigger. There are still solid small PGs out there another one that you missed is Isaiah thomas the smallest one of them all at 5’9 but still pretty good. I still dont think we seen the best of Brandon jennings, and Trey burke has alot of promise to. 

I think it comes down to skill level honestly. If your 6’0 and able to guard out on the perimeter and make plays offensively your gonna be able to succeed. Just look at patrick beverly 6’1 and a Hound defensively not a good playmaker, not a star but carved himself a nice little role in the nba. If giving a couple inches in the paint dosent really make a difference I dont think it will make a big difference on the perimeter either.

But to answer your question I dont think its neccesary, if any thing its a WANT to have a Big Strong PG that Can finnish above the Rim, Grab a couple extra Rebounds, Seeing the floor a little better, as well as making up a little more height when a team does deciede to go with a small lineup. But all comes down to skill level at the end of the day.

 

 

 

 

 

[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

I don’t believe the power forward / center is getting smaller. Back in the day the centers and power fowards were actually smaller that the centers and power forwards today. The skill set is becoming different and they are becoming smaller, but height/weight they are actually bigger than they were back in the day. 

[Miko4rm206Participant]

There has been talks of Kobe playing the 4, Paul George playing the 4, All b/c of what the warriors were able to accomplish. You got a 6’7 Draymond Green effectively playing Center for  the defending Champions. Greg Monroe and Jabari Parker are gonna be playing most their minutes as the 4 and 5 for the Bucks( undersized). Gaurantee your gonna see alot of more of serge and kd at the 4 and 5 this season. Not to mention  Paul millsap, Kenneth Faried even Aaron Gordon. Teams are going smaller than before or willing to try it. maybe its just my imagination tho.

[Miko4rm206Participant]

There has been talks of Kobe playing the 4, Paul George playing the 4, All b/c of what the warriors were able to accomplish. You got a 6’7 Draymond Green effectively playing Center for  the defending Champions. Greg Monroe and Jabari Parker are gonna be playing most their minutes as the 4 and 5 for the Bucks( undersized). Gaurantee your gonna see alot of more of serge and kd at the 4 and 5 this season. Not to mention  Paul millsap, Kenneth Faried even Aaron Gordon. Teams are going smaller than before or willing to try it. maybe its just my imagination tho.

[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

I don’t believe the power forward / center is getting smaller. Back in the day the centers and power fowards were actually smaller that the centers and power forwards today. The skill set is becoming different and they are becoming smaller, but height/weight they are actually bigger than they were back in the day. 

[sitlbitoParticipant]

 It’s not weird,because "small ball" should actually be called "versatility ball" or "skill ball",because that’s the point of playing "positionless basketball",to have guy switching and guarding multiple positions. Not an attempt to simply be smaller for the hell of it. Kevin McHale said in the open court "tall skilled beats small skilled everytime,but small skilled beats tall stiff everytime" I don’t entirely agree because he doesn’t mention athleticism/quickness which I think is a big part of the goal of playing small ball,playing fast. So the size doesn’t matter that much in the end because the whole point of playing small ball is to have versatile guys,and like GS similar heights guys at multiple positions. Thats why PGs,SGs are getting taller,and PFs are getting smaller. 

[sitlbitoParticipant]

 It’s not weird,because "small ball" should actually be called "versatility ball" or "skill ball",because that’s the point of playing "positionless basketball",to have guy switching and guarding multiple positions. Not an attempt to simply be smaller for the hell of it. Kevin McHale said in the open court "tall skilled beats small skilled everytime,but small skilled beats tall stiff everytime" I don’t entirely agree because he doesn’t mention athleticism/quickness which I think is a big part of the goal of playing small ball,playing fast. So the size doesn’t matter that much in the end because the whole point of playing small ball is to have versatile guys,and like GS similar heights guys at multiple positions. Thats why PGs,SGs are getting taller,and PFs are getting smaller. 

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 Thanks for the  Obvious statement Genius for a second i thought teams were going small giving up height just b/c. Thanks 4 clearing that up for all of us, 

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 Thanks for the  Obvious statement Genius for a second i thought teams were going small giving up height just b/c. Thanks 4 clearing that up for all of us, 

[sitlbitoParticipant]

 Wow kid do you fell better now? It’s nice telling me that,but I wasn’t answering to you dumba$$. And judging byt the +/-,looks like some people agreed with me.

[sitlbitoParticipant]

 Wow kid do you fell better now? It’s nice telling me that,but I wasn’t answering to you dumba$$. And judging byt the +/-,looks like some people agreed with me.

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 your clearly stated "Its not Wierd" but then your Not addressing me. Okay then and some people agreed with you stating the Obvious big Whoopty DOO! You deserve a Cookie!

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 your clearly stated "Its not Wierd" but then your Not addressing me. Okay then and some people agreed with you stating the Obvious big Whoopty DOO! You deserve a Cookie!

[Miko4rm206Participant]

Kinda wierd aint it. The PF/C are getting Smaller and the PGs are getting Bigger. There are still solid small PGs out there another one that you missed is Isaiah thomas the smallest one of them all at 5’9 but still pretty good. I still dont think we seen the best of Brandon jennings, and Trey burke has alot of promise to. 

I think it comes down to skill level honestly. If your 6’0 and able to guard out on the perimeter and make plays offensively your gonna be able to succeed. Just look at patrick beverly 6’1 and a Hound defensively not a good playmaker, not a star but carved himself a nice little role in the nba. If giving a couple inches in the paint dosent really make a difference I dont think it will make a big difference on the perimeter either.

But to answer your question I dont think its neccesary, if any thing its a WANT to have a Big Strong PG that Can finnish above the Rim, Grab a couple extra Rebounds, Seeing the floor a little better, as well as making up a little more height when a team does deciede to go with a small lineup. But all comes down to skill level at the end of the day.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rip255]

There will be a few small PG’s that will come through like always…but with so much motion on offense its easy to create a mismatch. 

And as soon as the 6ft PG switches onto anyone over 6’5"……there’s a mouse in the house. 

 

 

 

[Rip255]

There will be a few small PG’s that will come through like always…but with so much motion on offense its easy to create a mismatch. 

And as soon as the 6ft PG switches onto anyone over 6’5"……there’s a mouse in the house. 

 

 

 

[GBeeParticipant]

 Height is just one measurable and one of least importance for PGs. Players don’t defend and shoot with their heads. Length, frame and athleticism are more important physicallyand factored in when determining size. Arguably the 2 best PGs in the game, Curry and CP3 are considered small.  Curry might be 6’3 or whatever, but he has the length of a typical 6′ PG (6’3.5, less than CP3’s even).  Now if you take 2 equally skilled PGs and one is 5’11 and the other is 6’4, the NBA obviously has a preference but I don’t see the ~ 6′-6’1 PG going away anytime soon especially if their skill is exquisite. 1 on 1 it’s hard to be physically dominated at the point position because of how much help that position gets defensively and you don’t see too many bigger points go to the post consistently.  The issue defensively lies in switching, which we see more of these days, but if the 6′ PG has some strength to him and is an absolute dog like a CP3, Lowry, Conley or Bledsoe, then they can hold their own. If you look at the PG defensive rankings by dRAPM, the top 10 is a mixed bag from "short" to tall PGs, so the smaller PGs aren’t just being taken advantage of.

As for smaller PGs coming up the pipeline, there’s Jalen Brunson (not completely sold on him as a top prospect, but I know some are), Derryck Thornton, Dennis Smith, both with below average wingspans, Thornton having a smallish frame. Seventh Woods, if you still believe he’s top prospect, has smallish dimensions. There’s also Matt Coleman, Trae Young in the class of 2017. 2018 I haven’t seen much outside of this kid Jahvon Quinerly… and if Tyger Campbell reclassifies back to his original class then him too. Now that kid is a prodigy.

 

[EspressoprodigyParticipant]

 Thats a great assesment but there is just no doubt that teams are looking into taller PGs in general. 

No i dont think there will ever be a death of 6’0 PGs as there will always be talented small players but one thing i learned is that smaller PG builds are frowned upon by NBA teams when drafting. I have seen many talented PG struggle because of their size.

 

 

Ps. I have doubts about Dennis Smith Jr myself… just for that reason.

 

 

[EspressoprodigyParticipant]

 Thats a great assesment but there is just no doubt that teams are looking into taller PGs in general. 

No i dont think there will ever be a death of 6’0 PGs as there will always be talented small players but one thing i learned is that smaller PG builds are frowned upon by NBA teams when drafting. I have seen many talented PG struggle because of their size.

 

 

Ps. I have doubts about Dennis Smith Jr myself… just for that reason.

 

 

[GBeeParticipant]

 Height is just one measurable and one of least importance for PGs. Players don’t defend and shoot with their heads. Length, frame and athleticism are more important physicallyand factored in when determining size. Arguably the 2 best PGs in the game, Curry and CP3 are considered small.  Curry might be 6’3 or whatever, but he has the length of a typical 6′ PG (6’3.5, less than CP3’s even).  Now if you take 2 equally skilled PGs and one is 5’11 and the other is 6’4, the NBA obviously has a preference but I don’t see the ~ 6′-6’1 PG going away anytime soon especially if their skill is exquisite. 1 on 1 it’s hard to be physically dominated at the point position because of how much help that position gets defensively and you don’t see too many bigger points go to the post consistently.  The issue defensively lies in switching, which we see more of these days, but if the 6′ PG has some strength to him and is an absolute dog like a CP3, Lowry, Conley or Bledsoe, then they can hold their own. If you look at the PG defensive rankings by dRAPM, the top 10 is a mixed bag from "short" to tall PGs, so the smaller PGs aren’t just being taken advantage of.

As for smaller PGs coming up the pipeline, there’s Jalen Brunson (not completely sold on him as a top prospect, but I know some are), Derryck Thornton, Dennis Smith, both with below average wingspans, Thornton having a smallish frame. Seventh Woods, if you still believe he’s top prospect, has smallish dimensions. There’s also Matt Coleman, Trae Young in the class of 2017. 2018 I haven’t seen much outside of this kid Jahvon Quinerly… and if Tyger Campbell reclassifies back to his original class then him too. Now that kid is a prodigy.

 

[herceg_bukuParticipant]

 John Stockton was no more than 6 foot 1, however he is one of the top PGs of all time. This being that he was not excpetionally quick, long or athletic in general. However, he is the all time NBA leader in assists and steals (yes steals). What made him so great was his positioning and just knowing how to play the game the right way. He had a very good shot, whether it was a set shot, coming off screens that Malone woul set or even sometimes creating his own. He got his buckets, assists and steals the easy way, by understanding the game. 

Today we emphasize too much on size and athletisism, instead off who can just flat out ball. 

 

[herceg_bukuParticipant]

 John Stockton was no more than 6 foot 1, however he is one of the top PGs of all time. This being that he was not excpetionally quick, long or athletic in general. However, he is the all time NBA leader in assists and steals (yes steals). What made him so great was his positioning and just knowing how to play the game the right way. He had a very good shot, whether it was a set shot, coming off screens that Malone woul set or even sometimes creating his own. He got his buckets, assists and steals the easy way, by understanding the game. 

Today we emphasize too much on size and athletisism, instead off who can just flat out ball. 

 

[T Rex]

 Isaiah Thomas. It’s still possible to be a tiny star, but you have to be elite at almost everything, starting with athleticism.

I actually think Boatwright is going to surprise people.

 

 

 

 

 

[T Rex]

 Isaiah Thomas. It’s still possible to be a tiny star, but you have to be elite at almost everything, starting with athleticism.

I actually think Boatwright is going to surprise people.

 

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 You can still get a good 6’0 point guard to run your team.  The thing is, there are a TON of guys that size and no one really stands out unless they are ELITE like a CP3.  He STILL hasn’t been to a Finals.  Neither has Mike Conley.  

The moral of the story might be, generally speaking, don’t build around a 6’0/6’1 point guard.  Build around an oversized, dynamic wing, or a dynamic all-around 2 way big.

I’ve actually been thinking that I don’t want to throw a bunch of money at Mike Conley next year UNLESS he (and the Grizz) have a great year.  

A guy who is 6’1 or less doesn’t have much margin for error.  He has to shoot, defend, run the team, drive to the basket well enough to be effective.  

My advice to 6’1 point guard is to pick your SPECIALTY.  Be a specialist.  Either a shooter, pass-first point guard, or a defender.  Don’t just be another generic 6’1 point guard.  

 

 

 

 

 

[T Rex]

 You just contradicted yourself. 

"A guy who is 6’1 or less doesn’t have much margin for error. He has to shoot, defend, run the team, drive to the basket well enough to be effective."

"My advice to 6’1 point guard is to pick your SPECIALTY. Be a specialist. Either a shooter, pass-first point guard, or a defender. Don’t just be another generic 6’1 point guard."

Your first point makes perfect sense. Shame about the next part…

 

 

 

[T Rex]

 You just contradicted yourself. 

"A guy who is 6’1 or less doesn’t have much margin for error. He has to shoot, defend, run the team, drive to the basket well enough to be effective."

"My advice to 6’1 point guard is to pick your SPECIALTY. Be a specialist. Either a shooter, pass-first point guard, or a defender. Don’t just be another generic 6’1 point guard."

Your first point makes perfect sense. Shame about the next part…

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 You can still get a good 6’0 point guard to run your team.  The thing is, there are a TON of guys that size and no one really stands out unless they are ELITE like a CP3.  He STILL hasn’t been to a Finals.  Neither has Mike Conley.  

The moral of the story might be, generally speaking, don’t build around a 6’0/6’1 point guard.  Build around an oversized, dynamic wing, or a dynamic all-around 2 way big.

I’ve actually been thinking that I don’t want to throw a bunch of money at Mike Conley next year UNLESS he (and the Grizz) have a great year.  

A guy who is 6’1 or less doesn’t have much margin for error.  He has to shoot, defend, run the team, drive to the basket well enough to be effective.  

My advice to 6’1 point guard is to pick your SPECIALTY.  Be a specialist.  Either a shooter, pass-first point guard, or a defender.  Don’t just be another generic 6’1 point guard.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 There seems to be a general bias from scouts when it comes to evaluating players that are 6-0 or under. The general consensus always seems to come down to the fact that they are just "too small" to play in the NBA, which is ridiculous to me because there are plenty of smaller guys who have had excellent careers. It’s a very difficult stereotype to break and it leads to a lot of guys who could be good NBA players getting overlooked.

 Isiah Thomas was actually lucky to get drafted where he did and get a chance to play right away. If things had gone differently he could be playing in the d-league or overseas right now, not based on talent level but he might’ve just never got the opportunity. Pierre Jackson is another player who I think has the talent to be an impact player in the NBA, but he just hasn’t gotten that opportunity yet.

Guys like Ryan boatwright and keifer Sykes I thought should have been drafted this year but the perception is difficult to break especially in an age where measurements and wingspan are so much of a factor in the scouting process.

 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 There seems to be a general bias from scouts when it comes to evaluating players that are 6-0 or under. The general consensus always seems to come down to the fact that they are just "too small" to play in the NBA, which is ridiculous to me because there are plenty of smaller guys who have had excellent careers. It’s a very difficult stereotype to break and it leads to a lot of guys who could be good NBA players getting overlooked.

 Isiah Thomas was actually lucky to get drafted where he did and get a chance to play right away. If things had gone differently he could be playing in the d-league or overseas right now, not based on talent level but he might’ve just never got the opportunity. Pierre Jackson is another player who I think has the talent to be an impact player in the NBA, but he just hasn’t gotten that opportunity yet.

Guys like Ryan boatwright and keifer Sykes I thought should have been drafted this year but the perception is difficult to break especially in an age where measurements and wingspan are so much of a factor in the scouting process.

 

[nill650Participant]

 head height means very very little, its all about speed ,handle,wingspan,reach and at the very least controlled athleticism but much better to have explosive athleticism when assessing smaller guards.

the key differnce is a smaller "true " floor general with limmitted athleticism and can’t get their own shot, probably will never make it in this league with so many that can.

 

[nill650Participant]

 head height means very very little, its all about speed ,handle,wingspan,reach and at the very least controlled athleticism but much better to have explosive athleticism when assessing smaller guards.

the key differnce is a smaller "true " floor general with limmitted athleticism and can’t get their own shot, probably will never make it in this league with so many that can.

 

[JoeWolf1]

 I don’t think there’s a huge swing in size when compared to players 20 years ago. Sure there are some big points, but there were back then too. Take a look at some of the leagues’ top floor leaders from the 94-95 season.

Jason Kidd – 6’4”, Gary Payton – 6’4”, Nate McMillian – 6’5”, Penny Hardaway – 6’7”, Rod Strickland – 6’3”, Derek Harper – 6’4”, Kenny Smith – 6’3” , Sam Cassell – 6’3”, Joe Dumars – 6’3” ( he played point that year)

Sure there might have been a few more prolific jitterbugs like John Stockton, Nick Van Exel, Mark Price, Tim Hardaway, and others, but it’s if a guy can play, I don’t think 6′ or 6’1” is "too small" to play point in today’s game. I think it’s pretty evident that the smaller guards in the league have taken on more of a scoring role than a distributing one, when compared with past generations.

In all honesty, there are probably more 6’2”-6’4” shooting guards in the NBA than there has been in the past 30 years. Those "small point guards" have evovled into combo guards. They’re all over NBA rosters, Aaron Brooks, George Hill, Gary Neal, Patty Mills, Nate Robinson, Lou Williams, Mo Williams, Jason Terry, Jose Barrea. The small player is still around, I just feel with AAU ball, and a faster style of play these small players have mastered using their speed to score, rather than taking on the role of a pure point like they did years ago.

You look how insanely well rounded the top 6’1” and under PG’s of the 90’s were, and the shorter players of today don’t have that kind of balance….so they found a niche. Sure, there are exceptions, there always will be, but I don’t think the 6′ point guard is dead, the transition hasn’t happened due to big points out muscling the little guys thus making them outdated…it happened because the combo guard role that often fills it up off the bench more suits the style of game that the shorter guys play today.

 

[JoeWolf1]

 I don’t think there’s a huge swing in size when compared to players 20 years ago. Sure there are some big points, but there were back then too. Take a look at some of the leagues’ top floor leaders from the 94-95 season.

Jason Kidd – 6’4”, Gary Payton – 6’4”, Nate McMillian – 6’5”, Penny Hardaway – 6’7”, Rod Strickland – 6’3”, Derek Harper – 6’4”, Kenny Smith – 6’3” , Sam Cassell – 6’3”, Joe Dumars – 6’3” ( he played point that year)

Sure there might have been a few more prolific jitterbugs like John Stockton, Nick Van Exel, Mark Price, Tim Hardaway, and others, but it’s if a guy can play, I don’t think 6′ or 6’1” is "too small" to play point in today’s game. I think it’s pretty evident that the smaller guards in the league have taken on more of a scoring role than a distributing one, when compared with past generations.

In all honesty, there are probably more 6’2”-6’4” shooting guards in the NBA than there has been in the past 30 years. Those "small point guards" have evovled into combo guards. They’re all over NBA rosters, Aaron Brooks, George Hill, Gary Neal, Patty Mills, Nate Robinson, Lou Williams, Mo Williams, Jason Terry, Jose Barrea. The small player is still around, I just feel with AAU ball, and a faster style of play these small players have mastered using their speed to score, rather than taking on the role of a pure point like they did years ago.

You look how insanely well rounded the top 6’1” and under PG’s of the 90’s were, and the shorter players of today don’t have that kind of balance….so they found a niche. Sure, there are exceptions, there always will be, but I don’t think the 6′ point guard is dead, the transition hasn’t happened due to big points out muscling the little guys thus making them outdated…it happened because the combo guard role that often fills it up off the bench more suits the style of game that the shorter guys play today.

 

[Author]

Posts