[BobbyHurley4EverParticipant]

This post is in response to my previous post, ‘All-Time NBA Roster’. While it spawn some very good discussion about the best players of all time, it also seemed to take on another dimension in Kobe and Laker’s fans becoming very agitated that I included Lebron James and not Kobe Bryant.

Past forum link:
http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/all-time-nba-roster

At this time we are in a very pro-Kobe, anti-Lebron state of mind (and for good reason). Kobe Bryant has just finished winning his 5th championship ring while Lebron James seems more interested in satisfying his massive ego by stirring up speculation and market interest in his services. I think it is also important to mention that I am neither a frenetic Lebron fan nor a frenetic Kobe fan. I am just a fan of both in general with no specific allegiances to either one.

As I stated in my original post, I put Lebron James on the team based on pure potential and feel that he has physical gifts that no others have had in NBA history (that includes the standout freaks of nature Shaq, Elgin Baylor, DrJ etc..). Kobe Bryant did not make my team due in part to the 2 guards placed ahead of him, Jordan, Robertson and West. So I in no way intended to place Lebron on the team IN LIEU of Kobe. Kobe is certainly deserving of a spot on the ‘all-time’ team, but others were placed ahead of him.

I do think that Kobe Bryant is the better player at this point. He has proven himself to be a winner, leader and top talent in the NBA and has matured nicely over his NBA career. But I still feel Lebron has superior physical attributes and potential to become a top player in NBA history. I also hope that in the years to come Lebron puts his interest in himself aside and wins multiple championships (fulfilling his potential). No doubt before the end of their simultaneous careers we will have an instance where pro-Lebron, anti-Kobe talk once again envelopes popular opinion (and back and forth it will continue Im sure).

[Michael.S.Participant]

kobe lost all momentum after that horrible GAME SEVEN OF THE FINALS output. NO player of that stature should ever choke in such a big game

[knicks82Participant]

Kobe choked? If im not mistaken he made a couple of big shots in the fourth qtr. Also he had 15 rebounds, thats more than Kevin Garnett and Pierce had combined. Oh and the Celtics are the ones who choke being up by 13 in the second half and goin on to lose the game to Kobe and the Lakers. How bout that game 5 Lebron had vs the Celtics….that was pretty bad for Lebron.

[kanyedabestParticipant]

dude lol kobe just won bak 2 bak rings to total 5 how many does lebronze have?? LOL its just ridiculous how ppl hate on kobe and say lebronze is better when back to back seasons he wins and gets 2 straight finals mvps. all yall bronze fans can have him, we’ll take kobe and his rings and u guys can go buy tickets to c him perform on stage w/ drake

[The Dirty SanchezParticipant]

I can’t believe jammin really said kobe choked in game 7
he was playing against one of the best defenses in the league if not the best and was constantly getting double but he still hit big shots and free throws and got 15 rebounds!…if you consider that choking then what do you call lehype not even making it past the 2nd round!
your just too much of a lebron fan to see how much better kobe is

[Michael.S.Participant]

he did choke, accept the facts. He was 1-3 in the fourth qtr,what big shots?

[kanyedabestParticipant]

did lebronze even get to conference finals??? i cant remember??

[Michael.S.Participant]

Wow. Lehype and Lebronze and im hating? I am simply stating the facts.

You can say LeBron choked but the difference from his choke and Kobe’s choke is that since Kobe has a much much better team they came through for him and covered it up.

[Michael.S.Participant]

Does it matter if he got to the ECF? they played a team, that from top to bottom was better. Kobe and his five star supporting cast with the best bigman in the game, probably BARELY beat the team that LeBron’s lost to. Give Kobe Mo Williams, jamison, Shaq, and Parker as a starting 5 and they would have never beat Boston

[kanyedabestParticipant]

lehype, lebronze are those not warranted names when ppl like u hating on kobe wen ur boi hasnt won a single thing in this league and wack fucks like u saying he better then kobe…… u no im right there old buck

[Michael.S.Participant]

Are you one with your little rant? Calm down and provide a legit arguement or stop.

[kanyedabestParticipant]

lol my point for the 2nd time is he hasnt won anything and didnt even get past the 2nd round let alone the finals there chief

[Michael.S.Participant]

first time

Does it matter if he got to the ECF? they played a team, that from top to bottom was better. Kobe and his five star supporting cast with the best bigman in the game, probably BARELY beat the team that LeBron’s lost to. Give Kobe Mo Williams, jamison, Shaq, and Parker as a starting 5 and they would have never beat Boston

[DaGuywhodidurmaParticipant]

kobe didnt choke the whole lakers team was horrible. who exactly carried kobe?ron with his 13 points?how about fisher with his 7?kobe only had one sort of good shooting performance this whole series, so game 7 wasnt that much of a surprise.atleast kobe made up for his horrible night on defence. did anyone see paul pierce try to pull the “im hurt,so dont blame me if we lose” card again?his own medical staff didnt believe him.

[Mr.Knick 32Participant]

IMO, Kobe did not have a great game 7.

He had good numbers but those numbers are like numbers a superstar get in a blowout loss. I feel legacy wise, he did choke a game 7. Unlike MJ, Kobe also didn’t have the best game for LA. Ron Artest is clutch. First the tip in against PHX and then he goes for 20-5-5 in Game 7. Pau Gasol had 16-16 as well. Kobe did have a good numbers game but going deeper into that numbers show he struggled. Something Micheal Jordan never did when he was in the NBA Finals.

[Lil B to GSWParticipant]

I hate how people give Kobe the edge because of his rings when he has always had another allstar player (or two) to help get him the ring, this year he had gasol bynum and odom with artests d (although he is on the downside of his career) and in the past he had one of the alltime most dominate big men in shaq. If you ever look at the head to head stats between the two: http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2010/01/lebron_james_improves_edge_ove.html
you will notice who is better head to head, to me rings arn’t the most important part of judging who’s better, otherwise you might as well throw Derrick fisher into the conversation. Also lebron has better numbers than Kobe at this point in his career.

[knicks82Participant]

We all know that Lebron is probably the most gifted physical specimen ever to play in the NBA. You cant deny the stats the guy puts up are amazing. But how many big game winning shots has he made. Ive seen him choke and miss PLENTY of free throws down the stretch of games. Everybody always says how selfish Kobe is and he doesnt make his teammates better…ok, well if Lebron makes his teammates so much better then they should have been in the finals the last 2 years. Mo Williams was an all-star last yr, Antawn Jamison is a pretty damn good player in his own rite. Delonte West and Anthony Parker are good role players, solid bigs with Verajao, Illgauskus and Shaq. Kobe has Gasol. After Gasol, the talent drops off big time. Bynum cant stay healthy, Artest gives them little to nothing on offense most nights. Lamar Odom is terribly inconsistent. In my opinion the Cavs had the better bench. So dont make it like the Lakers have this team full of all-stars and Lebron just had a bunch of bums.

[apb540Participant]

I can’t believe we are even having this conversation. Kobe Bryant is and has been the best basketball player on the face of the earth for the past few years. Regular season stats mean NOTHING when it comes down to it. To truly understand how good a player is you need to watch as many NBA games as u can and start to understand the way that offenses in the NBA work. Cleveland ran a ton of iso’s and P&R’s for LeBron while the Lakers triangle offense was much more of a team oriented offense and LeBron would never put up the numbers he does now if he were to play for the Lakers. LeBron needs to worry about getting more rings than Wade, Bosh, Durant, D-Will, etc.

[Tyreke JohnsonParticipant]

As a Kobe fan I obviously like Kobe better then Lebron but due not fool that with my outtake on each, I am not bias towards either.

Lebron James- by far the most physically gifted player I have ever seen (though I am young I have seen many games of all time greats such as Magic, Bird, Big O, Russel, West, Baylor, Dr J, Jordan (younger Jordan). He has the an ideal body frame, incredible quickness for his height, tremendous leaping ability and phenomenal court vision, if I were to pick comparisons for him though it would be Dr J/ Magic Johnson. He possesses that out of the world athleticism that allow him to do things no other player can really do, he shocks us all the time with incredible plays and we all can’t help but wonder and be amazed by what he can do and we question how he can even do it. He also possesses phenomenal court vision for a player that has the frame, height and muscle to be a PF in the NBA. He played a Point Forward role for Cleveland but lets be honest he basically was their PG, every set and play the Cavs ran was through him and for him. He has that Magic type court vision, obviously does not perform the Lake Show type passes but he averaged 8 assists this year and he is still improving and he did not even have a great supporting cast. On top of that he took his awful supporting cast to 2 straight 60 win seasons and made them look like contenders, you take Lebron off that team and they are top 5 pick lottery team, wonder why Cleveland wants to keep him so bad. Players like him do not come often and are once very couple decades or so. He did not let down his team in the Playoffs, they let down him as always when it comes down to crunch time. Lebron is still young stop talking about game winners, anyone like to recall the airball shots Kobe had in his youth?

Kobe Bryant- closest thing to Jordan right now, he will never be Jordan though, nobody ever will be, everyone I believe is their own player with different abilities and skills and maybe compare to some players but it’s disrespectful to say a player is the next “blank” due to the fact every player maybe be similar but cannot replicate a player’s achievements, just pass
them. Kobe has been a premier player for years, he won his first 3 rings with Shaq and a great Lakers team and people began to claim Shaq was the reason for it, though Shaq was the best player on that team, you take Kobe out of those championship years and see what the outcome was, I really doubt a three peat, he complemented Shaq well during those years and without him you cannot deny the Lakers would’ve three peated. Kobe has had ego issues but when he surpassed Shaq as a player do you blame him for not wanting to keep playing second fiddle. Imagine this you are the best player on your team but he gets more minutes, shots and more credit then you, is that really fair? I am not denying Shaq wasn’t better during the three peat but after that it was Kobe. Anyway Kobe is a player with tremendous footwork, killer instinct, phenomenal mid range/post game, very clutch player who has had so many game winning shots it is almost is not suprising anymore when he hits one. He has pretty good three point range and great ball handling ability, very average passer, when he gets double teamed he tends to turn the ball over more because he is not a natural passer/playmaker. He used to have great athleticism(nowhere near Lebron) in his day but has aged gracefully. He still remains a winner/1st option a championship team and has shown he can in fact win without Shaq. His will and passion to win is almost unparalleled by many players and is a huge competitor. If I were to compare him to someone it would obviously be Jordan but I am not saying he will be the next Jordan or even surpass him, I am just stating he has a very similiar game to him.

Anyway to the Kobe- Lebron debate there really is not one, they are two different players that have different styles of game, are almost a decade apart in age (7-8 years) and play different roles and offer something different to their team. Of course I am going to pick Kobe as the better player right now due to his skill level being so high but for best player in the league it is more of just a 1a,1b type of thing, it can go either way and I would not care if someone chose Lebron, you also have to factor in that Kobe has had more years to win and Lebron is still young and has tons of years to improve his game so before we do the Lebron – Kobe debate atleast take into consideration all those factors.

[The Dirty SanchezParticipant]

Why do people always knock on kobe for the 3 championship that he won with shaq saying shaq was the reason for those championships and now that he’s winning as the leader of the team people say he can’t win without gasol and all the players on the team?!
No one has every won a championship alone magic had kareem and james worthy, larry bird had robert parish and kevin mchale, mj had pippen
the fact is it takes a team to win a championship and kobe is a great team player he may not average as many assist as lebron but he plays in a much more organized offense in the triangle where theres not the need of one player to facilitate everyone makes good plays to find the open man and lebron may average 8 assists but he is ball dominate and he has the ball in his hands like 90% of the time he just runs iso the whole game and he can’t lead his team in the playoffs he doesn’t have the drive to win that kobe does and most importantly he will never be as clutch as kobe is

[buckeyefanParticipant]

If your going to make fun of lbj at least give him good nicknames…

[SteroidParticipant]

I feel that it is nearly impossible to compare the two because both of them are in two entirely different stages of their career. LeBron is in his prime, and although Kobe has won back to back titles, as an individual, he is obviously on the downside of his career. Although they play in the same era, It wouldn’t be far to either player to start comparing them right now.

I believe that LeBron definitely has more potential than anyone who’s really been in the NBA, but LeBron isn’t there yet.

Also, please don’t go comparing the Old school era to the New school era. Two different time periods. I would make two all time teams. One for Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, etc and the other for the Charles Barkley, Michael Jordan,…

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