[Daprob89Participant]

Sacramento Kings Center Demarcus Cousins has been reportedly expressing his admiration for Rondo and Jimmy Butler. Also saying he loves the city of Chicago and they have a "squad" with the addition of D-Wade. What do you guys make of this? If the Kings are willing to move Cousins to Chicago, What assets do the Bulls have to pull this trade off? 

[sheltwon3Participant]

 Who does Chicago have that the Kings want outside of maybe Butler, Mirotic.  Both players are probably not going to get traded anytime soon.

[Daprob89Participant]

Honestly I couldn’t tell you but nothing worth being in the conservation for Cousins. But I’m thinking Picks, Valentine, McDermott, Gibson and Mirotic 

[xJumpManxParticipant]

 Their is no way that the Kings trade Cousins for that little of return.  You have heard some of the offers they have turned down none of those players even come close to the players they could get for a Cousins.

[Robb_CParticipant]

I think this move has been in action for awhile now.. Both Clubs have a good working relationships with each other and that really helps Chicago, the fact Boogie wants to play here makes this move a no brainer if the kings want to pull the trigger or risk losing him

[SpacegrassParticipant]

 Where is the floor spacing coming from?  That is a predictable team to guard.  They would have to literally punish people on the boards night in night out to be highly successful.  Which they could but that is an all interior scoring team.  Hell Boogie might be your best stretch the floor option if he went to Chicago.  Him or Butler

 

Because I see Mirotcic as one of the trade pieces if this happens?

 

 

[Bankroll PJParticipant]

 Don’t let the Warriors fool you, it’s very possible to be effective without "floor spacers" in a lineup. This Bulls team won’t be as poor offensively as many people think and I see them getting the 6th seed in the East.

[Robb_CParticipant]

 Dude Props for you writing this, everytime I hear someone talk about "floor spacing" all i think to myself is this kid never played the game or been around the game.. Ive been around the game since ive been a child.. And ive never heard a coach or scout say we gotta sign this kid he spaces the floor so well or this guy is great at standing 25 feet away from the basket we gotta sign him asap

[ph90702]

If that was the case, then Kyle Korver aka Ashton Kutcher would not be entering his 14th season in the NBA.

[Robb_CParticipant]

 Good spacing is created by fundamentally strong offense.. Not Indivually.. Example you mentioned Korver as a guy that creates spacing.. The guy doesnt create space at all.. Its actually the Zipper and Floppy sets that Atlanta runs for him that create great spacing.. Trust me if Korver isnt running off good screens hes not efficent.. So at the end of the day its the offense that creates holes for the player not vice versa

[ph90702]

You can run all the sets you want, but the defense is going to sag off if you can’t hit outside shots.

[Robb_CParticipant]

 Obviously… Thats true but understand the prerequisites of a having a strong FG/3pt% is a fluid offense that puts guys in the comfortable positions  to score example; Strong Screens and Good Rotation etc.  Yes your right if a guy cant shoot teams will sag off, but at the same time no professional would run designed sets like Zipper or Floppy for guys that are not consistent shooters anyhow.. Thats just bad coaching.. These sets are built for guys like Korver. At the same time these plays are not nearly as efficient if your team has guys that set halfa$$ screens and dont rotate.. Korvers success in Atlanta is in part to the Hawks having guys like Milsap and Horford who are excellent at setting screens and rotating.. Theyre a huge part of the reason why Korver had career season in ATL. 

So my point is this.. Guys are complaining on this thread about how the Bulls have horrible spacing (whatever that means).. But these same guys likely couldnt tell me any about Hoibergs read react Offense and why the signings of Rondo and Wade are actually extremely positive to Hoiberg having success with the other players on the roster..  Mirotic and McDermott will finally be able to get the ball in positions where theyre comfortable to score due to the fact Rondo is running Point.. Derrick Rose couldnt drive and make the pass the to the Shake Action player (whos the primary shooter) when the transition game broke down.. He wasnt a great fit for Hoiberg due to his limited basketball IQ. Hoibergs offense is built around the transition game, something guys dont realize is the bulls had a really strong transition offense last year.. Now they add Rondo and Wade two guys who are extremely vauable in transition.. These guys will open things up for the shooters like Mirotic and McDermott

[GBeeParticipant]

 The Bulls literally ranked last in the league in transition scoring effiency last year so IDK what you’re talking about.

http://stats.nba.com/league/team/#!/playtype/?sort=Percentile&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals

As for Cousins to the Bulls, I think the conversation would start and end with Butler. As a Bulls fan I’d really consider that.  I think the Bulls would do a better job of surrounding him with talent, which seems impossible not to do considering what the Kings have done. Butler is a really nice piece, a legit 2 way player, but is he really a piece you build around or is he just a really good player best suited as a 3rd option? I think he’s closer to the latter.  I still think Cousins is a player you can build a good team around but my concern would be how Hoiberg would be able to handle him.  Cousins is a guy who needs to be hard coached and held accountable, I don’t think Hoiberg has the personality to deal with him.

 

 

 

[Robb_CParticipant]

 Did I say they were one of the best scoring teams in transition? Look at the rebounding and possession rate that the bulls had all year it was in the top 10.. Them not scoring in transition was just due to bad PG play.. But they did get out and run a ton in transition.. The Bulls had Derrick Rose who couldnt set up anything for anyone besides himself in the open court.

[GBeeParticipant]

 You literally said they had a strong transition offense last year, which they did not. Whether you’re looking at efficiency or frequency they were bad at transition offense. The numbers are right there on the same page, including number of transition possessions. 8th worst in the league at getting out and running, THE worst at converting in transition.

 

[Robb_CParticipant]

 Lol buddy, youre looking at season totals.. Which never tell the picture from a game to game basis, do me a favor and go to the advanced stats at look at the bulls PACE and it will give you a more clear perspective on what teams were pushing the ball.. Look at advanced stats on per 48 minutes the bulls where not as bad as youre claiming..  and will get better with Rondo whos SacTeam had the best Poss Rate per 48 mins in the League.. Dude give me game to game stats and per 48s.. Not BS totals those are misleading

[Robb_CParticipant]

 Also GeeBee Riddle me this how where the bulls one of the Top teams In FGAs?  

[Robb_CParticipant]

Also you’ll realize GeeBee the stat you keep harping on Possession Transition Scoring Attempts Correlates with STLs/TO percentage.. Teams that stole the ball and created TOs clearly scored and attempted more in transition.. Something the Bulls were horrible at Stealing the ball.. Now understand that the Bulls were slmost last in stls.. But what im talking about is how quickly the Bulls went from Defense to Offense thats the Definition of Transition.. And the Bulls did it pretty well.. If you do youre research correctly, youll see they had a good pace and high FGA.

[GBeeParticipant]

 Everything on that stats page contradicts you.  And of course I’ll refer to season totals because that paints the picture of how a team did for the entire year, hence whether or not they were "strong or weak" in any category last year.  

 They did not run frequently (again 8th worst), when they tried to score in transition they converted at a very poor rate. And yes, I have looked at their pace, which they were exactly in the middle of the pack (15 out of 30 in pace) combined with their o-boards (which they were strong at) and poor rate of drawing FTs explains their high FGA. 

It was quite the opposite for the Bulls last year.  They were a shtty team when it came to transition offense. A team cannot be considered "strong" in an area if they were ineffective doing it. A team can run and push the tempo all they want (which the Bulls did not. see: 15th in the league in pace), but if they suck at converting when transitioning from defense to offense, then there is no possible way they could be considered having a "strong transition offense."

You’re wrong. Move on.

 

 

 

 

[circumlocution75Participant]

In the History of the NBA on 12 players have a 45% or higher 3pt FG% & most of them are guys like Kyle Korver or Steve Kerr – guys who need the Other 4 guys to work hard to get them open b/c they Can shoot the 3 but they lack the ability to create their Own shot

Steph Curry & Klay Thompson are Once in a Lifetime talents — Listening to Analytics geeks talk about the whole NBA needs to model Golden State is like people in 80’s saying hey that Showtime system the Lakers are running is the future of the NBA….. sure Success is always copied but Never duplicated

I grew up in North Phila, played in the Sonny Hill league as a kid, played high school ball, Div 1 college basketball & I don’t think my opinion matters anymore than anyone elses but I Never heard a coach say put the slow, non athletic guy in the game b/c we need "floor spacers"

NBA stars have One trait No one else has – they can Create their Own shot & this Is the rarest skill on Earth. Whether you have a Shaq or a Steph Curry the reason the floor is "Spaced" w/ them is b/c they create Massive mismatches. Kyle Korver has played on 7 different teams & he was a nice specialty player for a very good 60 win Atlanta team w/ Oustanding talent at PG, PF & C — It was Horford, Milsap & Teague who created "Space" for Korver

Did the 93′ Bulls win the Chip b/c Steve Kerr created "Space" for Jordan? Why do people think Porzingus’ #’s & %’s Dropped drastically in the 10 games that Melo was out of the lineup & the Knicks were 0-10 in those games. Almost Any Professional Basketball player can drain shots from 20 feet & in when in an empty gymnasium — Defense & Length bother shooters – That is the difference. Curry & Thompson can both penetrate & that threat keeps guys off them enough to get that space & That is the difference. But Kyle Korver shot 50% for Atlanta & they got destroyed in the playoffs by a depleted Clev team b/c they D’d him up – he didn’t create an inch of space in the playoffs b/c the the "analytics is everything" crowd got it backwards. 

Players who Create their own shot destroy the structural integrity of the Defense which creates openings or "Space" – that’s why a guy who can Draw a Double team & pass to the open man is So dangerous. That will Never change

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SpacegrassParticipant]

 It’s all about offensive balance and constructing a roster that fits together well on both sides of the ball.  I have watched and played the sport since I was able to go to school.  Didn’t play competitively past HS but have played with and against D1 guys and even some that have played in the league.  Not claiming to be some great player but your argument of "assumption" that my argument is weak because you don’t think I ever played the game.  Is well……  Weak!

 

 

[SpacegrassParticipant]

DP

 

[SpacegrassParticipant]

The Bulls this season will be a very good defensive team.  But their offense is going to be too predicated off of their defense creating turnovers.  Keep in mind that Wade and Butler aren’t really catch and shoot guys like Allen and Pierce were for Boston when Rondo was dishing them the ball.  They are create off the dribble ball in their hands players.  I think the Bulls could win say 50 games at best.   But winning 45-50 games isn’t getting you anywhere near enough wins that matches the level of the names on the roster.

[ChewyParticipant]

 We have a horrible shooting roster as is. If we get Cousins we will have to play like bullies to get wins. Post ups and strong drives from wings will really be our only offensive options. With Cousins, the Bulls look like an 80’s team. I wonder how that will play out in today’s NBA.

[HitsterParticipant]

 Cousins played with Rondo last year, if DMC had loved Rondo so much then I wonder why the Kings didn’t go all in to keep Rondo. The Bulls are paying Rondo $14 million this year and less next year so it’s not like they have broken the bank to sign him or Rondo is chasing a pay day. Rondo also has a title so isn’t having to try and chase one as much as other players may.

Chicago do have a pick due from the Kings so could send that back with other picks and assets to get a trade deal together but I think other teams have had more assets to throw at the Kings than Chicago can. 

 

[ropeParticipant]

 Whether is was Chicago or wherever, it would be nice to see what happened if Cousins was in a better environment than in Sacramento.  Right now you look at that mess and can’t figure out if he is a victim of the culture there or the cause of it.  The guy can really play.  As a basketball fan you would like to see a player like that supported by a strong organization.

[Dell87Participant]

 BULLS GET COUSINS

Sac gets 

Port is

McDermott’s

Valentine

Mirotic

Snell

And a future 1st round pick. Which would assumbly be a low pick.

If I’m Sac this is what I’m asking for. I get 5 young players and I hope that at least one  or two can become an all-star. 

Now if I’m Chicago I wouldn’t do it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LovebugParticipant]

 Cousins is allowed to say those things without it meaning anything 

[Author]

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