[OhCanada-Participant]

Great debut by Bates scoring 30 as Eastern Michigan almost beat Michigan. Seems to have his confidence back. Very happy for him.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Yeah, Jett went a little cold but still played alright. Emoni is going up on my board though. Gonzaga go lucky against Michigan State. Gonzaga’s not there yet. Didn’t expect Oregon to start slow 2 years in a row. Bad loss to UC Irvine. A game I missed was the Villanova game. They had a bad loss. Apparently Cam Whitmore didn’t play though. A good undercard game was UAB falling to Toledo. RayJ Dennis is legit and JT Shumate is a solid player as well.

I’ve noticed in the box scores of a lot of games I didn’t catch that there are guys on some draft boards that are not getting there playing time yet. Hopefully we can see better minutes from guys like Isiaih Mosley are busting so far instead of booming.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Just watching the end of Florida Atlantic about to beat Florida.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Terrance Shannon lit it up last night. I know it’s one game, but his shot looks much better. Imo, I think he could be a guy that gets drafted fairly high… like Agbaji did last draft. Only Shannon has better defense than Agbaji. Illinois is a tough beat too.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Terrance Shannon could sneak in the lottery this year if he keeps doing what he’s doing.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Duke or Kansas? I’m guessing Duke.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

This Kentucky/Michigan State game is ridiculously great… going into double overtime.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

Grady Dick looks like a really solid role player in the NBA for a long time. Jalen Wilson has made strides with his shooting, although his shot selection got kind of questionable. Duke is going to be a work in progress.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Totally agree, Gradey Dick might sneak in the lottery. Duke’s going to be nasty though, they need to gel more. Same with Kentucky. Lots of younger players.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Texas is putting the smack down on Gonzaga.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

In case anyone missed this last night from Trevon Brazile;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CDnGkDqrlg

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Did anyone else notice how bad Arizona State smashed Michigan last night? Michigan might be better than they played, but is Arizona State a legit team? Or was that a fluke?

Anyways, UCLA vs Illinois should be a great matchup tonight. I’m looking forward to watching it tonight, as I’m high on both teams. Michigan State in another heated game against Villanova too. Baylor and Virginia is another game on notice, but I think Baylor will kill them.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

Michigans inexperience at the guard position really showed in that game. They are kind of missing that veteran presence at pg that they’ve had seemingly forever that can kind of calm things down when they start to go off the rails. Dickinsons lack of mobility to defend in the pick and roll can definitely get exposed at times and this was definitely one of those instances. Arizona st also just kind of had an out of body experience as a team shooting the ball in that game. Even though they did thoroughly outplay Michigan some of the shots they were hitting were basically indefensible. There are some takeaways from the outcome, but I don’t think you can draw any definite conclusions about either team just based off that game alone.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Colorado smashing Texas A&M. 30 point lead atm. Switch games. Go PAC 12?

[OhCanada-Participant]

Anything interesting going on this weekend. Havent had any time to scope things out this year.

[HitsterParticipant]

Season is still very early been trying to get up to date with NCAA prospects before the Football World Cup starts and after the T20 Cricket World Cup finished ( Well Done England!)

Jalen Wilson at the Jayhawks looks as if he can step up this season and has already got a NCAA championship to his name so if he impresses this season he could well work his way into mid first round.

Brandon Miller went from 0-6 to 4-5 in his 3 point shooting in his first two games but with his length he can be a threat on both offence and defence and if he continues to improve he’ll be in the mix to go fairly high behind the big 2.

I noticed Dereck Lively has dropped out of the first round on this site’s updated mock and ESPN have said he needs development so might be a guy who will benefit from having another year in college and giving himself time to mature his game. He’ll still be the same size or bigger when he is drafted so his key is improving his game as teams will always be interested in someone of that size.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Guess my Baylor prediction didn’t last well. 🤦‍♂️

Tomorrow the only game I have circled is Fresno State @ North Texas. Sunday there’s a few games I circled. VCU @ Memphis, Kentucky @ Gonzaga, and Houston @ Oregon. There’s also some mini tournament games that will be played.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Wowsers! There’s a lot of potentially great games on today with the tournaments concluding.

UMass vs Charlotte
Miami (FL) vs Maryland
Illinois vs Virginia
UCLA vs Baylor
Drake vs Wyoming

Those are some of the tournament games. Also, not sure if James Madison is for real or what, but they’re 4-0 and playing @ UNC today.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Has anyone else seen the recent consensus mock on here? Unreal! Victor Wemby is going 3rd atm… ridiculous! Maybe there are some trolls out there? Or some user has like 4 accounts and is playing mock bot.

[armchairgmParticipant]

Didn’t even know this site had a consensus mock. Here is my early lottery board think it is too early to really go beyond that as there are some guys in the 20-undrafted range IMO need to see more of them.

1. Victor Wembanyama
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Brandon Miller
4. Nick Smith
5. GG Jackson
6. Dariq Whitehead
7. Keyonte George
8. Anthony Black
9. Amen Thompson
10. Ausur Thompson
11. Baba Miller
12. Cam Whitmore
13. Terquavion Smith
14. Grady Dick

[HitsterParticipant]

I wouldn’t consider a full mock yet beyond Wemby one and Scoot two. I’ve got to see the G-League guys play more and we have barely started the NCAA season either.

[OhCanada-Participant]

If I had to make an early year sleeper pick to make a deep run in the tournament I would go with Creighton. Haven’t been following much. Not sure what the rankings are. Don’t really care to look. Just know that Nembhard, Alexander, Kaluma and that big efficient Center they have will be a handful for anyone and probably enough to win the Big East. Although I should watch more before making predictions I like Creighton alot.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Creighton’s a very tough, well-balanced team with very good starters they roll with. It’s a good team to pick to get far. Hard to say how good teams with a younger roster will be at the end. I gotta feeling that Duke and Kentucky and teams like those will improve by season’s end. But Creighton’s good now.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

Kentucky needs Oscar to get up and running. He has put up numbers, but isn’t moving as well as he did last year. They are more reliant on their upperclassmen, which isn’t necessarily a problem, but seems to be more of a result of Cason Wallace being the only freshman who is ready to contribute. This makes their depth an issue especially should CJ Fredrick get hurt, which has been an issue throughout his time in college.

Creighton is good, and probably has the edge over Arkansas. While the Razorbacks are undefeated, but it is hard to trust a team that turns it over and is bad at perimeter shooting. They have talent and depth, but it is hard to win big with that combination. Maybe their win over Louisville gives them some confidence, but that is about as bad a team as there is in a major conference this year.

Duke is getting by on some easy early slate games, but that game with Iowa is looking like one that screams Iowa. First, it is an a statement game for Kris Murray as a draft prospect. He has been phenomenal, and I think that game at Seton Hall meant more than people realize. The Pirates are pretty good. Also, Duke has a quick turnaround after their ACC opener while Iowa gets a week to prepare. I think Tyrese Proctor reclassifying seems overly ambitious. He doesn’t seem ready. Lively might be pipped by Filipowski being really good. It doesn’t seem like a great match with them together. It might be the case as the season goes on that his minutes drop. While I think Scheyer did more of the coaching in K’s final years than it was led to believe, it will be interesting to see how he handles big time recruits who are struggling.

I am curious to see Terquavian Smith and the super-senior transfers of NC State against Kansas tomorrow. The Wolfpack will probably need a little more depth to compete in the ACC and make a tournament run, but tomorrow could put people on notice.

[HitsterParticipant]

Strange to think of the Wildcats not being filled with one and done guys so we may see how good Cal is at trying to improve slower developing and 4 year college players.

As BTPH said it will be interesting to see how Terquavion Smith goes as he could well have been a first rounder this year and is possible lottery contender for next year. A player with his 3 point shooting potential is almost the sort of prototype combo guard that teams covet these days.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

A potential good game tonight I have circled is St. Mary’s vs Houston. If St. Mary’s makes a game of it, they’re legit. Houston might just kick their butt though.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

St. Mary’s did make a game of it. Houston’s still a bit too much.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

A very good Kent State team who only lost to Houston by 5 points earlier this season and an underrated Charleston team by 2 points is on the road to face Gonzaga. This should be a great game. I think Kent State makes a game out of it. I say this game is almost a 50/50 chance for them. Gonzaga is favored by a lot too. We’ll see.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Illinois just beat Texas… it took overtime. Matthew Mayer was playing well tonight.

[HitsterParticipant]

Houston are looking very strong and this recent team is the best they have had in nearly 40 yeares since the days of Hakeem the Dream. After a couple of Elite Eight and one Final Four appearance in the last couple of years could this be the team to finally give the Cougars an elusive first NCAA title?

It may lack a bit of star power but Kelvin Sampson has built a very good and successful side there and this might be the year they have their best chance with the bulk of the current line up.. With a lot of us being more focussed on NBA prospects the very efficient Cougars ream has almost gone under the radar as they don’t have obvious prospects to be drafted highly.

Jarace Walker does look very promising though and Jamal Shead could be a useful back up NBA PG on some teams.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

That’s all true, funny you didn’t mention Marcus Sasser though.
Tonight we get to see:

Hofstra @ Purdue
UConn @ Florida
Loyola Marymount @ Grand Canyon

amongst other games.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Didn’t realize Hofstra no Aaron Estrada. This is why it’s not close.

[HitsterParticipant]

Sasser has been having a very good season too and is an elite college player. I’m just not sure if he’d make it in the NBA as an SG with his relative lack of size. Shead is a bit of what is now a slight throwback NBA PG so lack of size could be a sticking point with him too.

Sasser even if he doesn’t get drafted will get Summer League and training camp invites so I can see him having a very nice career even if it isn’t in the NBA. Plus he missed a lot of last season with a toe injury so may still not quite be up to full speed and could have more upside to come so he could be a guy to keep an eye on.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

I think Sasser would do better in the league than Shead. Just my opinion. UConn’s for real though. They’re absolutely taking it to Florida right now. Florida isn’t a cupcake team either.

[HitsterParticipant]

Shead I like as a pure pass first creative PG but his scoring does lack whether this would be an issue in modern NBA I do wonder?

Sasser I hope the eye injury which made him depart the game vs UNF yesterday isn’t serious as he was really on a hot streak with 12 points in only 8 mins and could have been on for a really big game. If he hadn’t been injured last season and he’d taken the Cougars as deep as they went or further in March Madness would he have declared or tested draft waters as he was hitting 43.7% of 3 pointers up to his injury and would have been on Front Office radar.

UConn after the JIm Calhoun era and the title in Kevin Oliie title win had been quiet for a few years with sanctions but have been moving forward again under Dan Hurley and like Houston have had a great start to the season.

Adama Sanogo looks a beast and has the size and power to have a good shot at being drafted and is already in the 2nd round on this site’s mock. Jordan Hawkins likewise is developing nicely and might be on draft radar in next couple of drafts depending when he declares.

Donovan Clingan is a long term interesting prospect with his huge size and having dominated at HS level. He is looking very promising in his freshman year and contributing at both ends of the court. His FT stats need to improve but his sheer size will make him a threat around the basket on offence and he’ll be shot altering on defence . With Sanogo he must form one of the most imposing frontcourts in the NCAA and if he continues to match up well against older college athletes he’ll be a name to keep an eye on.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Plenty of options of games to watch today. Ones I have circled:

Alabama @ Houston
San Diego State @ St. Mary’s
Auburn @ Memphis
Kansas @ Mizzou
Arizona vs Indiana
NC State @ Miami(FL)
UNC Asheville @ Dayton
Xavier @ Cincinnati
UNLV vs Washington State
Grand Canyon vs North Texas
UAB @ West Virginia
Nevada @ Oregon
Boise State @ St. Louis

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Bama just got Houston. Noah Clowney had a good game. Sears pulled through in the end.

[holefillers1Participant]

Can Whitmore is back in a big way. He reminds me of Jimmy Butler. Maybe a little Carmelo

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

He should be in the top 5 right now, as he has proven instantly to be the real deal.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Didn’t see any big time sexy games today, but some good ones I’ve circled here:

Iona @ St. Bonaventure
Oklahoma State vs Virginia Tech
Navy @ Towson
Marquette @ Notre Dame
Maryland vs Tennessee
Wisconsin @ Iowa
Seton Hall @ Rutgers

[HitsterParticipant]

Cam is top 10 for me at the moment but he has looked very good in his few games and hos FTs seem more consistent than before. He is the sort of combo forward NBA teams love so I see him being lottery prospect at worse if he keeps this up and ability to be in 3 to 8 range if he kicks on much more.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

I’m going to say that top 10 is low for Cam. He won’t fall past 5. My top 10 atm has changed as big boards are subject to change based on performances.

Top 5
Victor Wembanyama – C – France – Most hyped up prospect since LeBron.

Tier 2

Scoot Henderson – G – G League Ignite – Ja Morant like athleticism.

Tier 3

Emoni Bates – F – Eastern Michigan – Consensus doesn’t have him this high but watch him now!
Cam Whitmore – SG/SF – Villanova – Do it all suddenly Villanova is relevant and he is the reason why.
Nick Smith – G – Arkansas – Maybe he can get away with not scoring inside by his mid-range game.

Tier 4

GG Jackson – PF – South Carolina – youngest player in the draft and holding his own.
Brandon Miller – F – Alabama – I had him top 5, then he played an NBA defense in Houston.
Kel’el Ware – PF/C – Oregon – Everything you want in a modern big man.
Gradey Dick – SF – Kansas – Good length and not many holes to his game.
Amen Thompson – G/F – Overtime Elite – versatile, elite athlete improving raw skills by the game.

Honorable wild card mention:
Baba Miller – F/C – Florida State – a little bit of a mystery since he’s not playing.

But… Whitmore to me is the safest pick outside of the top 2.

[HitsterParticipant]

No Anthony Black in your top 10 then Norrin?

I have him and Smith more even both inside my top 10. Apart from you having Bates in your list and not Black then I’d have pretty much the same players in my top 10 but our order behind the big 2 would vnaturally vary this far out from the draft.

Great list as always.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Anthony Black would be flirting with the lottery for me. If he had a better outside shot, then he’d be in the top 10. My next tier looks like this atm with Black in there.

Jett Howard – F – Michigan – good length and does a bit of everything. Good athlete.
Cason Wallace – G – Kentucky – Not the star, but capable of defending anyone on the perimeter and knocking down shots.
Keyonte George – G – Baylor – Could shoot better from the floor, but doing everything else. I believe in his shot.
Kyle Filipowski – PF/C – Duke – So far he’s the man on Duke. Reminds me of Lauri Markkanen.
Anthony Black – G – Arkansas – great ball handler and defender. Good basketball IQ. Needs a better shot.
Baba Miller – F/C – Florida State – Mystery man
Jarace Walker – F – Houston – Impressing every game and locked in a great team unable to showcase all his skills.
Taylor Hendricks – F – UCF – sheesh, just tuned into this guy and he could be the sleeper of the draft.
Ausar Thompson – G/F – Overtime Elite – Does a little bit of everything and he’s athletic.
Maxwell Lewis – SG/SF – Pepperdine – The Jalen Williams of this year.

[HitsterParticipant]

Black I like for his size as he can play a number of positions on defence and with the Razorbacks they are sometimes starting with a 4 guard line up effectively a smallball/Nellieball type system. Smith may well be the better scorer long term in the NBA but Black I think offers a lot on both offence, defence and his understanding of the game with his good basketball IQ.

With Ricky Council also being a potential first rounder and the Razorbacks leading scorer what we see statswise from Black and Smith may not be that outstanding as they will negate each other possibly. But the Razorbacks do look very strong again.

Excellent next tier analysis as always Norrin

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

A good prospect watch tonight will be UCF @ Ole’ Miss. Taylor Hendricks vs Amaree Abram.
Another good prospect watch tonight is UCLA @ Maryland. This one can also be a great college basketball game.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Not much games going on today… However, tomorrow there are a plethora of good games.

Indiana @ Kansas
Alabama vs Gonzaga
Houston @ Virginia
UNC vs Ohio State
UCLA vs Kentucky
Tennessee @ Arizona
Mizzou vs UCF
Wake Forest @ Rutgers
Providence @ Seton Hall
Umass vs North Texas
Toledo @ Marshall
San Francisco @ UNLV
Utah @ BYU
Texas A&M @ Memphis
Pepperdine @ Grand Canyon
Drake @St. Louis
Oklahoma State @ Wichita State

Anyone watching college basketball tomorrow might choose their games to watch wisely or hit record a lot.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Brandon Miller is going off on Gonzaga right now. He’s flirting with 40 points. Gonzaga leads…

[armchairgmParticipant]

Yep he is

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Well, he didn’t get 40 quite but what a game… Gonzaga by 10.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Jake Stephens out of Chattanooga is frickin’ huge! He’s like Embiid as far as size and shooting. Looks a bit like Sloth from the Goonies… HEY YOU GUYS!!! He also had a crazy game today. Awkward, yet good player.

[HitsterParticipant]

Still laughing at the Sloth comparison – cruel but funny. I wonder if the guy has a bit of giantism in him, I’m surprised you don’t hear more about this with NBA bigs given the size of some of them.

I’ve not really seen Stephens play but if he can get up and down the court in the present NBA he clearly has the size and a nice shooting range to have a shot at making it in the NBA. He’d be the sort of player who could be a monster in Europe if he doesn’t make it at the top table so one to keep an eye on.

Any thoughts on Jett Howard who has shot up to number 2 on this site’s 2024 draft?

He has nice size and a blue chip NBA pedigree. I’m surprised he’s not listed on the 2023 draft but with his Dad coaching hm at the Wolverines and clearly no financial need to jump to the NBA he may be a player who stays longer in college than some think.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Jett’s a special offensive talent. He has some work to do defensively, but he should be drafted high if he does declare this year.

[HitsterParticipant]

Cheers, I just noticed you’d mentioned Jett in your tier breakdowns too. The fun thing will be does his Dad advise him with his former NBA top level player and championship winner hat on who would have a great insight when it is best for him to declare or as an NCAA HC wanting his best player for another year.

Either way Jett won’t be in a bad position he may not go so high in 2023 given the near certain locks in the top 2 positions but would still be a likely lottery contender or does he wait another year and have the chance to go higher but run the risk of people expecting him to kick on either more.

I’ve always felt if players are good enough they declare but Jett with his Dad as his coach and being from a very rich background he can take his time and probably the chance to really challenge for an NCAA title might swing it he stays for at least another year unless the Wolverines win the title this season.

[armchairgmParticipant]

I don’t know if Jett goes that high, but I have him creeping into the late lottery now and moving up. I see him as a Dillon Brooks type wing.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

A ton of great games in college today… starting with UConn @ Xavier, then it goes on all day!

[armchairgmParticipant]

Just turned on Uconn/Xavier

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Xavier it is, switching channels and watching UCF @ Houston to watch a particular freshmen matchup.

[HitsterParticipant]

Xavier turned over Uconn in a bit of a surprise so will be interesting to see how rankings evolve.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Wow… Rutgers just upset Purdue… now UConn and Purdue go down within a couple days of each other.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

sheesh, wrong sport, but right after the Purdue game the tragic news came out about Damar Hamlin. smh. RIP!

[armchairgmParticipant]

Why is everyone saying RIP like he has died already. He is in critical condition, not looking good, but not announced as dead.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Thought he was a gonner, so did everyone that was giving me messages about it.
Anyways, Texas Tech @ Kansas tonight…

[HitsterParticipant]

Tragic news about Damar Hamlin hopefully he can somehow pull through.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Looks like we have no more NCAA teams that are undefeated. New Mexico goes down against Fresno State.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

It’s not the weekend. It’s a Wednesday and we have a ton of good games coming up.

Auburn @ Georgia
Miami (FL) @ Georgia Tech
Duke @ NC State
Iowa State @ Oklahoma
UCF @ East Carolina
Penn State @ Michigan
Texas A&M @ Florida
VCU @ Duquesne
UNC Asheville @ High Point
Chattanooga @ UNC Greensboro
St. Louis @ UMass
New Mexico State @ Stephen F. Austin
Drake @ Southern Illinois
Belmont @ UIC
Bradley @ Murray State
UConn @ Providence
Mizzou @ Arkansas
TCU @ Baylor
Wake Forest @ UNC
Clemson @ Virginia Tech
Illinois @ Northwestern
Colorado State @ Nevada

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Crazy TCU/Baylor game just now.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Maryland @ Rutgers
Purdue @ Iowa State
Navy @ Colgate
UAB @ Florida Atlantic
Old Dominion @ Troy
Marshall @ Georgia Southern
Tennessee State @ SIU Edwardsville
South Indiana @ Morehead State
Milwaukee @ Cleveland State
Drexel @ Towson
Jackson @ Stetson
Seattle U @ UT Rio Grande Valley
Grand Canyon @ Sam Houston
Louisiana Tech @ Rice
Southern Utah @ Tarleton
Southern Miss @ Louisiana
Denver @ St. Thomas
North Alabama @ Lipscomb
Indiana @ Iowa
Cincinnati @ Wichita State
North Kentucky @ Western Kentucky
Oregon @ Colorado
UC Irvine @ UC Davis
USC @ UCLA
Oregon State @ Utah
Utah Tech @ Cal Baptist
Santa Clara @ Pepperdine
Cal State Fullerton @ UC Riverside
Washington @ Arizona
Gonzaga @ San Francisco
BYU @ Loyola Marymount

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

*Purdue @ Ohio State not Iowa State.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Another Saturday filled with potentially great games. I’ve skipped a line for each time slot. Here we go:

Notre Dame @ UNC

Creighton @ UConn
Texas @ Oklahoma State
Vanderbilt @ Mizzou
St. John’s @ Providence
Davidson @ VCU

Kentucky @ Alabama
Duke @ Boston College
Georgia Tech @ Florida State
Milwaukee @ Purdue Fort Wayne

Wisconsin @ Illinois
Iowa State @ TCU
Tulane @ Temple
East Carolina @ Memphis
UIC @ Indiana State
Charlotte @ Florida Atlantic
Ole’ Miss @ Mississippi State

Michigan @ Michigan State

UTEP @ Louisiana Tech
Grand Canyon @ Stephen F. Austin
Old Dominion @ Georgia Southern
Denver @ Western Illinois

Coastal Carolina @ Marshall

Clemson @ Pittsburgh
St. Bonaventure @ St. Louis
Nevada @ San Jose State
Samford @ UNC Greensboro

Xavier @ Villanova

Syracuse @ Virginia
Delaware @ Charleston
Missouri State @ Belmont
Arkansas State @ Troy
Sacramento State @ Eastern Washington
Lipscomb @ Jacksonville

Tarleton @ Sam Houston

Kansas @ West Virginia
Kansas State @ Baylor
Princeton @ Cornell
Murray State @ Drake
North Texas @ Middle Tennessee
LSU @ Texas A&M
Duquesne @ Richmond

Utah State @ Boise State

Oklahoma @ Texas Tech
Oregon @ Utah
Harvard @ Yale
South Utah @ Abilene Christian

NC State @ Virginia Tech
Utah Valley @ UT Rio Grande Valley

Georgia State @ Louisiana
Kennesaw State @ Queens

Stetson @ Northern Alabama

Arkansas @ Auburn
Butler @ Seton Hall

UNLV @ New Mexico

Gonzaga @ Santa Clara
San Francisco @ Loyola Marymount

I think I’m starting with Creighton/UConn, then Michigan/Michigan State, then Xavier/Villanova, then Kansas State/Baylor, then NC State/ Virginia Tech, and then finish with Gonzaga @ Santa Clara. That’s probably the map today to go with. The others I’ll be catching most highlights. Happy Saturday! Cheers!

[armchairgmParticipant]

You must do these to remind yourself who is playing because no one ever responds to them haha. I’m watching TCU/Iowa St game and San Diego State/Wyoming today

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Baba Miller should be making his debut with Florida State tonight against Wake Forest. He might be rusty, but I’m glad we’ll be able to see what he can do against college competition now.

Lots of good games today:

American @ Army
Mississippi State @ Georgia
Alabama @ Arkansas
UConn @ Marquette
Creighton @ Xavier
Charleston @ UNC Wilmington
Pittsburgh @ Duke
Baylor @ West Virginia
Memphis @ UCF
Boston U @ Colgate
Southern Illinois @ Indiana State
Virginia Tech @ Syracuse
Indiana @ Penn State
Richmond @ Davidson
West Carolina @ Chattanooga
Towson @ Delaware
Florida Atlantic @ Florida International
Louisiana Tech @ North Texas
Middle Tennessee @ Rice
George Mason @ St. Louis
Wofford @ Samford
Mizzou @ Texas A&M
TCU @ Texas
East Carolina @ Cincinnati
Florida State @ Wake Forest
Western Kentucky @ UAB
Rutgers @ Northwestern
Utah Valley @ Cal Baptist
Cal State Fullerton @ UC Irvine
Boise State @ UNLV

I’ll definitely be watching Alabama/Arkansas and then TCU/Texas. I’ll have to go back and watch some others.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

What a comeback by Texas over TCU…

[HitsterParticipant]

Will be interesting to see Baba finally play. I’d not judge his draft stock too much on first few games as he’ll take time to get up and running.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

Let’s get out ahead on this one as their schedule is about to get real. How good is 15-1 Kansas State? The next month will tell the story with TCU twice, Kansas twice, @Iowa State, Florida, Texas, and Texas Tech twice, but they have been very good for a team that entered with no expectations. Also, are we getting to the point where Keyontae Johnson has to once again be considered a potential draft pick? Obviously, doctors will play a major role in whether, or how highly, he would go as the heart condition that caused him to collapse a couple years ago will need to be assessed fully. Still, as a player, he is having a spectacular season, especially when you consider he was away from the game for so long. It is storyboard stuff for the team in Manhattan to be Harlem’s team with Marquis Nowell and Nae’Quan Tomlin. Nowell is listed at 5’8″ so his NBA chances are quite limited, but is a great college player with silly range. I hope he catches on with a team overseas with some money. He screams of one of those guys who gets a foreign passport and ends up averaging 20 in the Olympics in 2028. Nae’Qwan Tomlin is a juco transfer who might be a 2024 draft possibility. He checks a lot of boxes for what a draft prospect looks like. He is listed at 6’10” which might be a bit afro-enhanced, but he looks like the kind of long, athletic interchangeable forward that teams crave. If he uses the offseason to get his perimeter shot up 5-10 points as well as get stronger, he could easily end up in the league. I suppose if K-State goes around .500 in this next challenging stretch and goes on a tournament run, he could declare this year. If they lose Nowell and Johnson, there is no guarantee they can hit a home run in the portal to replace them.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

this is a battle between kansas/kansas state!

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

KState holds Kansas after the back door cut dunk winner.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Not too many games today, Here are the ones worth watching;

Georgia Southern @ Appalachian State
Michigan @ Iowa
Longwood @ UNC Asheville
Troy @ Georgia State
Northern Alabama @ Liberty
Jacksonville @ Kennesaw State
FGCU @ Eastern Kentucky
Texas State @ Arkansas State
Western Illinois @ Oral Roberts
Northern Kentucky @ Milwaukee
Southeast Louisiana @ Texas A&M cc
Colorado @ USC
Arizona State @ Oregon
Sam Houston @ Southern Utah
Stephen F Austin @ Utah Tech
Loyola Marymount @ St Mary’s
Southern Miss @ Marshall
UT Martin @ Tennessee State
Gonzaga @ BYU
Utah @ UCLA

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

Emoni Bates is on a 4-12 team where he has taken 235 shots with 16 assists. Now, he is averaging 21 PPG on 36% from three and better than 50% from inside the arc. Still, for a guy who needed to change his reputation as being only about himself, I don’t think this is going well.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

While there is truth to what you say, I find it a little funny that PB&J actually got drafted in the first round last year after being on a terrible Milwaukee team (now playing solid that he’s gone). He didn’t even put up numbers on a lemon. Emoni is at least putting up some numbers. He isn’t the best passing player and can improve his defense, but he’s a younger prospect still with plenty of room to improve. Last year he was awful and I counted him out. Now his stock is slowly rising. His reputation is a mixed bag right now, but about every prospect has some sort of holes in their game if you nitpick.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Not many great games today, but here are some to look for:

Yale @ Cornell
Kent State @ Ohio
Siena @ Niagara
Villanova @ Butler
Michigan State @ Illinois
VCU @ Dayton
Utah State @ Nevada

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

It’s another big Saturday with some big games:

Miami FL @ NC State
West Virginia @ Oklahoma
Seton Hall @ DePaul
Davidson @ George Mason

Wisconsin @ Indiana
Georgia @ Ole’ Miss

Kansas State @ TCU
Providence @ Creighton
UCF @ Tulane
American @ Lehigh
North Texas @ Florida Atlantic
Princeton @ Brown
Delaware @ Hofstra
Pitt @ Georgia Tech
Fordham @ LaSalle

Stephen F Austin @ Southern Utah
Southern Miss @ Arkansas State
Stetson @ Eastern Kentucky

Mizzou @ Florida

Iowa State @ Kansas
LSU @ Alabama
UAB @ Louisiana Tech
St. Louis @ George Washington
UNC Greensboro @ Furman
Troy @ Appalachian State

Duke @ Clemson

Arizona @ Oregon
Oklahoma State @ Baylor
Chattanooga @ Samford

Colorado State @ UNLV
Old Dominion @ Marshall
Georgia Southern @ James Madison
Wright State @ Milwaukee

Colorado @ UCLA
Texas Tech @ Texas
Bradley @ Drake
Seattle U @ Utah Valley
St. Thomas @ Oral Roberts

Mississippi State @ Auburn
UT Martin @ Southern Indiana
New Mexico @ San Diego State
Samford @ Utah Tech
Santa Clara @ Pacific

Grand Canyon @ Cal Baptist
UC Riverside @ UC Santa Barbara

Utah @ USC

St. Mary’s @ San Francisco

Once again I’ve separated the games by time slots. I’m planning on watching MiamiFL/NC State, Kansas State/TCU, Iowa State/Kansas, Arizona/Oregon, New Mexico/San Diego State/St. Mary’s/San Francisco… Happy Saturday to all!

[armchairgmParticipant]

Kansas St/TCU only game on my docket today. I prefer watching NBA and only really watch when two top 25 teams play or NCAA Tournament time.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

I’m pulling an audible… I’m switching games to North Texas/Florida Atlantic. The NC State game was everything one would hope for. This KState/TCU game doesn’t seem that great from what I’ve seen so far. Once I finally count Kentucky out and not mention them, they beat #5 Tennessee. smh.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

When is D’Moi Hodge going to get some love? I don’t see too much on him, but he’s been ballin’ it up all year. Same with Austin Crowley (on Southern Miss not Vanderbilt like this site says) These guys have very good defense and are very efficient. They both have good size on the perimeter. Anyone else think of prospects going under the radar atm? Anywho, time to watch that Marquette/Xavier game.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

Austin Crowley having a breakout year after down-transferring is going to curb a lot of excitement. It is just a reality for evaluating players from mid-tier leagues.

D’Moi Hodge is listed at 6’4″ so he lacks ideal size for a two-guard, but isn’t tiny. He is someone who has just been good at every step. He averaged 25 PPG while at a JUCO. He was defensive POY and 1st team All-Conference at Cleveland State. Now, he leads the SEC in steals. He has hit a bit of a dip shooting the ball in SEC play, but it is still too early to draw any conclusions about that meaning much (he was excellent against Kansas and Illinois as well as the rest of the non-conference). The truth of the matter is that he didn’t play AAU and played at a small high school. I wish people would realize that scouting gets better at the higher levels, but for guys who miss out on the lower levels it sticks with them for years (hence why these are the stories of older prospects). Hodge will have his chances in the pre-draft process, but teams still value age probably more than they should, which is partially a result of him being an immigrant kid (Virgin Islands) who didn’t play travel basketball as a teen. Now, young and good is incredibly valuable. This isn’t a debate over the guys who are “one-and-dones” in the classic sense of the word. If a guy transitions seamlessly (even if not the most eye-popping counting numbers) from HS to college or youth leagues to pro leagues overseas, it is hard to question the draft logic with them. Young and can’t use them is not, but it is hard to look at recent drafts and not come away thinking more teams than not will take a one-and-done off a bad year (and it looks like there are quite a few yet again in 2023) than a useable older player who has played really good. It is hard to look at Hodge at any stop, and argue against his ability to play, but I see a lot of evidence of teams not understanding where to use raw data and how to contextualize it. I still chuckle at Trey Murphy going quite a bit later than Ziaire Williams. Same size, same athleticism, one showed that he can shoot it, and the other just had a reputation for it. The big advantage of Williams was a reputation built on being 6’8″ or 6’9″ at a earlier age whereas Murphy got bigger later (into college) and somehow that overshadows Murphy was the better player at the point of the draft. It is one of the failings of stats people not understanding how to properly analyze human subject data of which sports is a part. NBA execs like having data for CYA purposes (Morey still has a glowing reputation despite a half-decade of terrible moves), but it is better to be right than having a built in excuse. Ziaire Williams and the like benefit from models that put them into the same category as Durant, Zion, Mobley, Luka, etc. One has nothing to do with the other. Those guys were one-and-done because they proved to be too good the their current one at the youngest age. Now, you have an army of first-year eligible players who didn’t develop as the same rate as those guys receive an unfair classification bonus. My working theory is that this plays a huge role in why despite all the money pumped into analytics and player development that simple misunderstanding of data elements explains why late lottery and late first round drafting has not improved on a league-wide level.

[HitsterParticipant]

Very informed analysis as always BTPH, I would hope that teams would have decent analysis for who they take with their draft picks. Teams further down the first round are either contenders or other teams via trades. A lottery team with a 2nd or 3rd first rounder may well go for upside with a later pick. Contenders often will take BPA they want to fill a position but sometimes take a shot at a guy with upside as they can afford to give them time.

Hodge has been solid the last couple of years but I agree his age might count against him ashe isn’t a lights out scorer or shooter. Crowley has made great strides but I’m unsure of the level of his current side to really judge him.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

Assessing draft prospects is a balancing act, and one where I don’t think there should be absolutes. I understand the argument about shooting for upside, but I also think that there is an odd weighting system by which for young players someone being good and big at a younger age is given greater credence than more recent production at a higher level. If someone was to assess Russell Westbrook on how he was four years ago, they would call you a no-nothing idiot. A lot has changed over that time. When it comes to draft prospects, it is “he has pedigree, he was playing for the US U15 team, and looked like a future star.” Let’s say if we to survey people about the upside of Patrick Baldwin Jr and Santi Aldama. Both are similarly sized, stylistically similar, both went to small D1 schools, and drafted in the same range. Aldama has had more success in the NBA as well as in college. I think there are people who would still say Baldwin has more potential.

I don’t know if Hodge will make it. Generally speaking, I give guys who get after it defensively a better chance at getting into the NBA the hard way (undrafted or 2nd round route) than dynamic offensive players who almost never get the ball because they start at bottom of the NBA totem pole. If he can shoot it, defend, and test out as having requisite size and athleticism (we will have all that data by the draft and there are enough games left to know whether his dip in shooting over the past few games is just normal variance or something more concerning), I would not hold age against him or his potential for developmental growth.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

Kansas-Kansas State was great. Fraschilla mentioned in passing that Nae’Qwan Tomlin didn’t play organized basketball before he got to junior college, which is wild given that he was huge for them in this one (and really all season). I had my doubts over whether he was really 6’10”, but he looked much bigger than Gradey Dick and Jalen Wilson. While he is still raw, there is just so much to work with. 15-10 with a pair of blocks and almost a game winning steal should get his name out there. I don’t know if Jalen Wilson can keep pace with Zach Edey for POY, but 1st team All-America seems likely. Edey, Wilson, Brandon Miller, Drew Timme, and then maybe Jaime Jaquez, maybe Souley Boum, or maybe Azuolas Tubelis?

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

…And Loyola Marymount just upset Gonzaga!

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Not so much here on the rematch, Gonzaga is crushing them tonight, can’t watch anymore. Blow out city. 40 point half time lead. smh.

[armchairgmParticipant]

Everything good with you Norrin? You were MIA with the comprehensive games to watch over the weekend breakdowns.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Yeah, thanks… was partying a little. Haha. I actually missed Houston lose.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Happy Saturday! Tons of games on today. Here’s my top 10 games going into today:

Xavier @ Creighton
Iowa State @ Mizzou
Illinois @ Wisconsin
Arkansas @ Baylor
Hofstra @ Charleston
Richmond @ Dayton
Texas @ Tennessee
Florida @ Kansas State
Kansas @ Kentucky
Utah @ Oregon

The BIG12/SEC challenge should make today interesting.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Another happy Saturday!!! Today’s biggest matchups:

Virginia @ Virginia Tech
Kansas @ Iowa State
UCF @ Cincinnati
Michigan State @ Rutgers
Texas Tech @ Baylor
Auburn @ Tennessee
TCU @ Oklahoma State
Tulane @ Memphis
Illinois @ Iowa
Miami (FL) @ Clemson
Purdue @ Indiana
Texas @ Kansas State
Florida Atlantic @ Charlotte
Liberty @ Lipscomb
Mizzou @ Mississippi State
UNC @ Duke
North Texas @ Rice
Stephen F Austin @ Crand Canyon
Marshall @ Louisiana
Florida @ Kentucky
Oregon @ Arizona State
Santa Clara @ San Francisco
Gonzaga @ St. Mary’s

Should be some good games including great later games. Gonzaga game should be an instant classic. Cheers!

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Happy Saturday again peeps! We have another bunch of great games today… here are some we have to choose from:

West Virginia @ Texas
Providence @ St. John’s
Penn State @ Maryland
Kentucky @ Georgia
Kansas @ Oklahoma
Alabama @ Auburn
UConn @ Creighton
Rutgers @ Illinois
Southern Illinois @ Drake
Clemson @ UNC
Oral Roberts @ Western Illinois
Duke @ Virginia
Baylor @ TCU
UNLV @ San Diego State
Middle Tennessee @ UAB
Mizzou @ Tennessee
Oklahoma State @ Iowa State
Indiana @ Michigan
Mississippi State @ Arkansas
Kansas State @ Texas Tech
Loyola Marymount @ Santa Clara
UCLA @ Oregon
Colorado @ Utah

Also, Emoni Bates and Eastern Michigan play a rematch against Toledo the team he went off on not that long ago if you want to check it out. Hoping for some great games. Cheers!

[HitsterParticipant]

Emoni has been balling recently and would his team have won a game without him. I’ll have to watch some of his stuff to try and get a good idea where he shouuld be in my draft order. Is he showing his real potential or is he stats padding on a not very competitive team. His shooting percentages look pretty good from what I’ve noticed from his stats.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Just watched a buzzer beater win for Mizzou over Tennessee… what a game!

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

What up? What up!!! Another Saturday morning full of college basketball… we got:

Illinois @ Indiana
Seton Hall @ UConn
Texas Tech @ West Virginia
Rutgers @ Wisconsin
Tennessee @ Kentucky
Iowa State @ Kansas State
Wake Forest @ Miami (FL)
Oklahoma State @ TCU
Florida @ Arkansas
Fordham @ VCU
Baylor @ Kansas
Pittsburgh @ Virginia Tech
Utah @ Arizona State
Texas A&M @ Mizzou
Creighton @ St. John’s
Colorado @ Arizona
Nevada @ Utah State
Utah Valley @ Seattle U

At least those games stand out to me, I’ll be sure to watch at least Tennessee/Kentucky and Baylor/Kansas. Happy Saturday peeps!

[OhCanada-Participant]

Kentucky is killing Tennessee. Not looking like the best defense in the country right now.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

that and Kentucky is looking much better than they did in the beginning of the season.

[HitsterParticipant]

Kentucky look to have got a top recruiting class coming in next season so if some of ther current side stay and push on they could be a team to beat again.

What are people’s thoughts on Maxwell Lewis – he seems to have made a big stride forward this season and strikes me as the sort of player who would make a great 6th man scoring option. He might be good enough to start but I could see him being used a bench option with his scoring touch in the NBA.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

He could maybe carve out a role like that at the next level. He has the tools to become a good defensive player, although I don’t think he’s quite there yet. A coach can plug him in a variety of lineups with his offensive skills. Pepperdine isn’t the greatest college, funny people make the same arguments about Emoni Bates. Lewis though I think will have a road to success. I’ve seen him in many mocks ranging from lottery to early 2nd round.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

The apprehension with Bates is not that he is at a small school, it is that he is at a small school because he does not know how to operate within a team construct and needs for it to be about him. Things didn’t work out at Memphis. He enrolled a year early. It happens. Nobody wanted him. It is extraordinary that a guy with his prep accolades could hit the transfer portal and hear crickets. While he is currently in a brutal shooting slump (10-47 and 2-23 from three in his last three games) that has dropped his season numbers, it is clear he has a lot of ability as a shooter and overall scorer. He will not have an NBA team built around him, certainly not anytime soon. He has to be able to play a role, and be in an environment where that message is clear. The worst place in the world for him is a spot on a tank army where by mid-season they roll out the ball and let him do whatever he wants for 30 minutes a night so long as they lose by 20.

Lewis is probably overhyped. He is young, has the physical makeup of wing that every team wants, and can shoot. In a climate where teams will draft Caleb Houstan, Patrick Baldwin, Gabriele Procida, Luke Travers, and Justinian Jessup, if he declares, he will get taken. I think the start of the season for Lewis against a largely soft schedule hyped him up more than it should. The WCC is not the best conference, but it has been good enough to bring him back down to earth (which is more than can be said for how it is making Brandin Podziemski appear).

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

True, but Lewis, Emoni, and Jett Howard have many similarities in there game to me and are in different places in the draft. There’s a good and needed log jam at that position in the draft. Emoni’s slump has got to be humbling for him for sure. Jett and Maxwell Lewis are also in slumps. None of them play defense. They all pass the eye test with their offensive games. (something Podziemski’s game doesn’t jump out you with, he’s by the numbers.)
Bates is 18 still. He’s also an immature kid who was ranked way high in high school. His stint in Memphis is what everyone’s concerned about, yet remember dude was 17 last year and basically a high school kid playing against more mature and seasoned players. So a 17 year old high school kid who was told all his life he’s the best finds out he’s not a 6’10” point guard last season struggles playing out of position from a coach who defied those odds in Penny Hardaway. Sounds like there might be too many egos in the room to get an Emoni fix last year while Memphis was too busy trying to win the NCAA championship. It just didn’t work out both ways. While I don’t think Eastern Michigan is the best fit either because he has to be the man all the time instead of fitting in a system – I do believe Emoni possesses a skillset that can translate to the next level and the tools to work with them. I wouldn’t write him off as uncoachable just yet, although it may take a great coach or a good coach with a veteran or two on the team.
Maxwell Lewis is also in a slump and is currently trending downward as a result too. His turnovers have gone up and his defense needs to improve. He’s not 6’10” like Emoni, but measures better still. Pepperdine should have more wins though with the talent they have to work with.
Jett is considered a first rounder still and can maybe sneak into the lottery with a good showing from here on out as the only freshman of this group. (He is older than Emoni though) I believe in Jett’s iso game though but he better improve defensively. He’s a liability right now on defense and I think he can learn that part of the game. His passing game has taken a dip as of late as well.
Brandon Miller is a stud and I think he’s going 3rd still. Gradey Dick is probably the best shooter in the class. Colby Jones is really picking up steam and flirting with a first round grade in a lot of mocks currently. Then there’s Dariq Whitehead and Sidy Cissoko that will be at least considered in the first for their upside. Brice Sensabaugh has been still trending pretty high and Whitmore is slipping a little – but not that far. Anyways, what a log jam!

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Couldn’t agree more with your points… I think Scoot’s slightly better than Miller still, but the divide isn’t as much now. Miller’s been tearing it up and is the better fit in more cases than not. I think after Scoot’s last performance that his stock took a slight hit. He’s also been banged up off and on all season. I can see a slight reach for fit, but the best thing to do would probably be to trade a slot down. But, if you’re a believer that Scoot is generational, of course you get your guy. I think there’s probably some GM that has that take. Miller would be fantastic on Detroit or Indiana for that matter. I’m sure there’s a handful of teams that actually like Miller better around the league, but that’s probably it for now – a handful or so. I’m one of those Scoot believers though. I’d take him 2nd still, but I’d tab him as tradeable, whereas before I would probably not. I think Scoot could be a remix of Ja Morant at best. He’s still very young and has some development to do yet. If that’s the case, that’s an incredible player. At worst, he a souped-up Eric Bledsoe. Miller’s ceiling isn’t as high, but a Khris Middleton type player could probably be brought in a Brandon Miller. Maybe better.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

https://www.al.com/alabamabasketball/2023/02/nate-oats-brandon-miller-was-in-wrong-spot-at-wrong-time-night-of-jamea-harris-killing.html

“At a hearing for Miles’ capital murder charge Tuesday, law enforcement officers testified that [Brandon] Miller brought Miles the gun that another defendant, Michael Davis, allegedly used to murder Harris.”

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

wow! no bueno!

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

I know states operate differently, but it is stunning that a D.A. believes “there’s nothing we could charge him with” when Miller brought a gun to what was ultimately a murder scene. If Miles is charged with delivering the gun to the shooter Michael “Buzz” Davis, then couldn’t the guy who got it for Miles be charged as well?

It also isn’t the best look for Nate Oats to take the “college kids are out” and “wrong spot at the wrong time” stance. Not when a girl gets killed.

[HitsterParticipant]

A lot of players in the draft will have been the best player on their teams most of their life. I can remember laughing about Lance Stephenson thinking he was a superstar and he was only a 2nd round pick. But then thinking about it more I realised he had been “the man” all throughout his life and still felt like that. We moaned about guys going to loaded recruiting classes but it did make some of them realise it isn’t all about them something they will soon learn unless they are a Wemby type prospect in the NBA.

I wonder if G League Ignite would have been good for Bates having a few veterans around him. He’ll need to improve his shooting if he is to get drafted in a nice position as teams don’t want stats pad chuckers.

Scoot has always been seen as alock to go two and a nice consolation prize for whoever misses out on the game changer Wemby. Pacers I think would take Scoot and play him alongside Tyrese but off the ball. For the Pistons they have Cade, Ivey and Hayes so there could be a case to trade down but if they consider Scoot to be better than say Ivey and certainly Hayes then maybe move one for a lottery pick and draft Scoot and get a Combo Forward with the pick they receive in.

I didn’t know about Brandon Miller allegations, it will be interesting to see if teams put up red flags over this.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

yeah the allegations were posted pretty much right when I posted that. Brandon Miller’s stock most likely just took a dip. He fu–ed up my board for sure.

[HitsterParticipant]

Grady Dick who you have labelled as potentially the best shooter in the class Norrin are you talking about his entire shooting range or more his 3 point range?

With his height and size I can see him being an option at SG and SF, he may not be the sort of guy who can explosively create his own shots but he’d strike me as an option for Detroit or Houston if they miss out on a lottery pick. Also Orlando where John Hammond likes a very tall squad he’d fit in also Pacers and OKC look decent fits to me.

I’ve got Grady, Smith, Amen and Black in the mid top 10 of my potential mock also maybe throw in Rupert as the overseas wildcard and you have a lot of backcourters or guys who can play there at the same level IMO so a lot will depend on workouts.

As regards Brandon Miller there will be a lot to play out and whether teams take the moral high ground on him. Hell of a lot will depend how teams evaluate him when they do the face to face meetings as regards his chatacter. But if he did begin to fall in the draft then there will be a place where he becomes too good not to draft.

Good to see Leonard Miller moving up the draft boards too.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

long distance sniping mostly. And his overall form.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

It is hard to know how Miller’s situation will play out. Honestly, I am stunned he is still expected to play tonight, and frankly that Oats is getting no push back for having been playing Miller since he found out. Miller brought a gun to a guy who then committed murder. I’m not saying Miller should be thrown in jail and never let out, but this is far from a mistake that can just be dismissed. I wrote a comment in the thread, one I cannot see at the moment, that I thought there wasn’t a tier difference between Miller and Scoot. I also thought given roster construction and team investment in lead guards that for many of the teams that could ultimately land #2 could easily choose Miller. The hard part now is I don’t know how a team brings Miller in to be an agent of hope for a rebuilding franchise, and then gets anything but 200 questions about that night, the dead young woman, the little child without a mother, what he was thinking bringing a gun to a strip full of bars late at night, and that becomes the dominant story of the franchise. Given that it has not blown up the way I would have thought, maybe I am wrong, but big city media will not be as forgiving as college town media.

There have not been a lot of stories quite like this. Pac-man Jones didn’t shoot up a strip club, one of the guys he was with did, and Jones didn’t give him the gun. He eventually got back to the NFL, but there was push back. Miles Bridges went from being a near lock to get a 9-figure contract to serving an unofficial suspension because nobody wants anything to do with him following a domestic assault. He recently stated that he thinks he will be back in March, but I doubt that Charlotte would bother given where they are in the standings. Plus, the moment he signs with a team, he will then serve an official suspension and it will probably be for a year. There have been athletes who have been a part of deaths due to reckless driving. I guess soccer player Marcos Alonso got a woman killed when he was playing in England while drunk driving, and his career never stopped. I just have a hard time believing there won’t be a lot of push back.

[HitsterParticipant]

Footballers in the UK have killed people whilst DUI/dangerous driving and even served a few years in the big house and come back and played for clubs. The kickback is more when someone is done for a sexual crime or violence towards women and the gun laws here are hundreds more times tighter than in the US.

I hadn’t heard anything about Miles being charged or the actual incident whnich is surprising given the Crimson Tide is a highly ranked team this season, an NCAA tourney regular in recent years and has the highest rated college player in this years draft in their ranks.

I can see Miller getting a lot of stick especially on the road and would a major agent want anything to do with him unless this tragic issue is cleared up.

Bridges if he has a lengthy suspension to serve would any team give him major money or might he need to taken a minimum couple of year deal to get through the suspension. Given MJ’s busness empire and his Nike dealings I cannot see any way he’d allow Bridges back onto the team he owns as it would create negative publicity for him. Plus factor in the Wemby stakes too.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

I know it’s South Carolina, but damn! From purely a basketball standpoint, Brandon Miller just made a crazy statement by blowing up for 41 points in the showdown. He keeps playing like this and he might get the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes great play makes people forget, for better or worse. Brandon Miller can take some pressure. He proved that at least. Nate Oates – that’s a different story. That we’ll have to see how it plays out.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

It is not about his talent or potential. That is not in question. He has been great on the court all season. It is not even about whether you think he will ever be involved with anything stupid and reckless again. Here is the thing, what we learned at this point is just from a bond hearing. All the prosecutor had to show is that Miles and Davis shouldn’t be allowed out on bond. It is a low bar, and they don’t have to show everything they have. That alone was scary stuff. In all likelihood, there will be more information to come at trial. The story read as though that there is security camera footage, which makes sense given that it is a college town strip. Think back to how the Ray Rice video changed how the public viewed him. Even giving Miller every benefit of the doubt based on what his lawyer says went down and the testimony at the bond hearing, there could be a security camera that shows his car arriving at the scene, seeing Miles go into his car to get the gun, see Miller’s car block the victim’s car from being able to leave, and then the shooting itself in rapid succession. Let’s say the trial comes after the draft. Draft night becomes a non-stop questioning of what is already known. The trial of Miles and Davis will keep the story in the news, and likely escalate matters because there might be information that is not public yet and the possibility of video. Beyond that, Miller will undoubtedly be involved in a civil suit with the family of Harris and her child. Her boyfriend who got shot might also have a suit. The burden in a civil trial is significantly less than a criminal trial. Can a prosecutor prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Miller was involved in the death of Harris? The DA obviously thinks not. Can a lawyer prove that it is more likely than not that the guy who brought a gun to a drunk late at night at the scene of what became a murder is responsible for her death? I also think the media tour the lawyer will go on, and the footage of the little child being raised without his mother, is not something that will go over well with the public. Put yourself in the shoes of a team decision maker, Miller might be a difference making prospect, but this is not a story that is going to go away. This is likely an issue that will get uglier, and with a civil trial could be ugly for years. If you are a GM, coach, or owner, do you want to look like Nate Oats? Do you want to look like a mercenary for a game? Everyone’s reputation could end up in the toilet.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

I’m with you. The story itself won’t go away. But Brandon Miller is painted as innocent from the way ESPN is portraying the events. According to the reports, he had no idea he even gave Miles the gun. Eeeeeek. Still doesn’t look good. Someone was murdered. But Miller’s play last night was phenomenal. Playing phenomenal makes people concentrate on the game instead of the baggage off the court. That’s all I was saying. That’s really still not easy, considering social media exists, but the story still remains. His great play will keep him high in the draft unless the DA finds a case and it scares NBA teams away. If this were say Jalen Slawson out of Furman instead of Murray, Slawson would be suspended indefinitely – not considered a legit prospect any longer and Furman would be out of a coach with a tournament suspension or something… I get it, I’m with you… But it’s a top prospect on a very high-profile team. You should see the hate I got for saying what basically you’re saying on Youtube. The basketball world has some mixed feelings about the situation. There’s a chance he gets picked very early still and yeah the GM might choose between championship aspirations and an ugly rep. We’ll just have to see. The branding of the NBA is pretty good, and this can maybe hurt that. Maybe not. I have a feeling from here on out that Miller will play like he’s golden ape Goku or something. He’ll probably deliver the biggest Kamehameha in the draft. At least it wouldn’t surprise me.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

ESPN has been dealing with it with kid gloves. Part of me thinks it is because their lawyers don’t want the network to risk dragging Miller and end up getting sued at a later date should Miller’s pro career and potential earnings be impacted. Part of me thinks their relationship with Alabama and the SEC is playing a role. This year’s SEC has basically been a glorified version of the AAC, and would be worse if not for Brandon Miller. I don’t know which part bothers me more.

I don’t think the sentiment of basketball fans in February 2023 matters at all. Public sentiment is fluid. I have to believe every NBA team’s GM and owner will have people in the organization who will lay out the facts, and present the worst case scenario for how this plays out over the next year, two years, and five years. What is publicly known is already bad. Miller not being charged, in part, means his side of the story is not going to be presented at the trial of Miles and Davis. No lawyer is going to be in court claiming Miller didn’t see the text about the gun and was there to pick up Miles anyway, touch the gun, or take issue with how testimony presents him at the scene. Miller’s own lawyer said there is video evidence. When it is made public, how will that make Miller look anything but worse? Again, everyone agrees to the timeline: Miller’s car appears, Miles get the gun, and then shooting occurs. There is so much unknown that has to scare teams. The detective testified to have an exact quote of Miles saying “the heat is in the hat” and Davis saying “I told you I was going to get you.” How good of security footage do they have if they were able to pull that audio? What else is on it? Court records state Miles admitted to providing Davis with the gun. If he said that, what else did he say? Miller’s lawyer said that he is cooperating with the investigation. I assume that means he will have to testify at the trial. How will that play out not only when the prosecution lays out the facts, but when the defense cross-examines him? This doesn’t even touch on how ugly and long a civil trial will last where he will be the defendant. Teams have to consider how public sentiment is likely to shift when the video comes out. They have to be really concerned with the possibility that their player could be found liable in civil court for the wrongful death of a young woman. Alabama might just figure that they can ride it out and let the facts come out after their season is done and Miller is no longer at the school. Sadly, they have enough equity built up in that state to withstand awful decision-making. The NBA team who drafts him is left holding the grenade when things inevitably get worse. The team would be putting the coach, other players, and employees in an awful position of having to answer questions they shouldn’t be answering. The team, also, might have to weigh the possibility that once full facts, video, and audio come out and the public really turns that Adam Silver will have to kick him out. I remember how the public turned when the Ray Rice video came out, and that was not a murder. It is less likely than the video and evidence coming out and Miller being found liable, but certainly possible. It is within the realm of outcomes. We have not seen any story like this before. If a team takes him, how long do they have with him on the basketball court before these scenarios play out? Is there a point at which he can just be a basketball player?

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

It definitely brings out a Ray Lewis scenario while in a social media world.

[HitsterParticipant]

Miller will be out of the Crimson Tide by end of next month in affect but as BTPH says whoever may draft him could have a costly problem on their books. Teams will want to know what happened and it gone over by their lawyers before they risk drafting him.

NBA and Adam Silver will be looking pretty hard at this, could Adam in theory ban him from the draft if there is uncertainty on the case. The NBA run an age rule which no-one has taken to court and would Miller have the means to do so. Can he even get an agent too as the better ones would be wary of touching him and his lawyers would probably be defending the civil case before they can think of even taking on the might of the NBA lawyers.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

The issue with taking a stance like that is do you ban him for allegedly doing something wrong or for doing something wrong? I’m torn on that one. The NBA is a good market, but even good marketers make mistakes such as nobody signing Kai Sotto to a contract which would have captured and enthused a big audience. Brandon Miller indirectly involved whether he knew or not doesn’t look good. But I don’t think he should be banned per say for maybe making a mistake. I wonder how the public persona is going to view this case… I’ve heard tons of mixed reviews so far… The last thing we need is more Gilbert Arenas locker room guys. Can’t deny that either.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

The league can’t stop him from entering the draft. Entering is just paperwork. 20 and 21 year old rec players have filled it out just to see their names on the official list. I tend to believe the league will not preventatively suspend him or place him on some kind of leave while a criminal trial of which he is not a defendant plays out, though the idea of a player leaving his team in-season to testify in a murder trial where he brought the gun to the scene might be ugly enough for the league step-in. I think there are going to be a lot of loud voices within team’s organizational structures that they should not be hiring him/drafting him at the moment. The risk to everyone involved far exceeds the possible benefit of a guy who may be the second most talented player in the draft. He will still just be a rookie. The team will still have the opportunity to draft another talent player, even if after Victor and Scoot there is no one else with his resume. I struggle to see the scenario where it could go well for him. How does the evidence not come out? How does he not testify? How does he avoid a long and damaging civil suit? The hurdles are numerous and the time frame is long. Why would a team want to sign up for that? Most GMs survive a bad pick. San Antonio cut Josh Primo after a year. As far as I can tell, the front office is still in tact. Troy Weaver took Killian Hayes over Tyrese Haliburton, and it is still his job. If Nick Smith’s knee fails him, the GM will likely survive. If a GM takes Miller, and things get as ugly as it could, he is not only gone but not getting another chance elsewhere.

[HitsterParticipant]

It may throw a lot of light on who makes the call in the draft room – GM, Team Owner, President of Basketball, Head Coach etc

I cannot see the likes of the Spurs risking him given their front office and how they get burnt by Primo. Kevin Pritchard, Bird and co at Pacers always look for high character guys, MJ taking him I’ve discussed the issues that would cause.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Saturday’s finest matchups:

Creighon @ Villanova
TCU @ Texas Tech
Clemson @ NC State
Michigan State @ Iowa

Arkansas @ Alabama
Arizona State @ Arizona
Texas @ Baylor
Kansas State @ Oklahoma State

Oral Roberts @ South Dakota State
Texas A&M @ Mississippi State

Colgate @ Navy
Auburn @ Kentucky

UNC Asheville @ Longwood
Syracuse @ Pittsburg

Southern Utah @ Sam Houston State

Virginia @ UNC

Indiana @ Purdue

USC @ Utah
Virginia Tech @ Duke

St. Mary’s @ Gonzaga

San Diego State @ New Mexico
San Francisco @ BYU

I’m watching the beginning of the Creighton/Villanova and then switching to Arkansas/Alabama. Nick Smith is back and that should be a game. Hard to pass on Texas/Baylor though… Then I’m going Auburn/Kentucky, Virginia/UNC, and then the main event in St. Mary’s/Gonzaga. Anyways, hope this Saturday’s fulfilled with great games…

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

It’s the first Saturday of March!!! Here are some good games to pay attention too:

Alabama @ Texas A&M
Iowa State @ Baylor
Seton Hall @ Providence
Penn @ Princeton
UAB @ Charlotte
Kansas State @ West Virginia
Tennessee @ Auburn
Kentucky @ Arkansas
Kansas @ Texas
UNLV @ Nevada
Pittsburgh @ Miami(FL)
Duke @ UNC
UConn @ Villanova
Mississippi State @ Vanderbilt
Boise State @ Utah State
Hawai’i @ UC Santa Barbara
Arizona @ UCLA
Arizona State @ USC

Happy Saturday!

[HitsterParticipant]

Yep only a week to go in the regular season so some NBA prospects will be playing their final college game then. Being based in England its hard to understand exactly how the seedings are weighted with the “At large/wildcard element” but the play offs are always fun to watch.

Also it can often be the best indicator to how prospects rank as you are seeing them in must win situations and how they function down the stretch.

Anyone else feel that the play offs at least or NCAA Div 1 should have the 24 second shot clock so we’d see guys competing in NBA and Int Basketball timeset. It would highlight the quicker dedision makers and potentially make players more NBA ready and speed up college games?

[OhCanada-Participant]

Kentucky’s experience is looking good late in the season. They have been grinding away at Arkansas here and this young Razorbacks team is struggling to be composed.

[OhCanada-Participant]

College basketball is a much better product then NBA. Its a very different game. Starting to get hard to project players because its just so different.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Nobody really talks about Jordan Walsh but this guy could end up being a tremendous player if he can develop a consistent jumpshot.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

Ja Morant gets suspended for at least two games for flashing a gun on instagram (though the decision is undeniably paired his recent pattern of behavior). Tell me again how NBA teams are just going to treat Brandon Miller as just another talented basketball prospect when the video of him delivering a gun to a murder site gets released.

Three Alabama players were at the site of a murder, one is charged with capital murder, and the murder weapon ended up in the apartment of a 4th player (who was out of town that night). I wonder if Alabama is playing dumb on this one because they know how deep the story of that night goes.

[HitsterParticipant]

Guns are legal in so many states can a player in one of those states be in trouble for being photographed posing with one whatever the view of the NBA might be?

[OhCanada-Participant]

Big time game winner for Jamaal Shead as Houston beats Memphis on the road. Houston was my pick at the beginning of the year and I stand by that with Creighton as my wildcard.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Jarace Walker had that clutch block on Kendric Davis towards the end too.

[HitsterParticipant]

I wonder if Marcus Sasser will play himself into the First Round if he leads the Cougars deep into March Madness. IMO he’d be an ideal pick for a contending team looking to add a guy who could contribute immediately but a lot of the late first rounders have already been traded so they will be held by lottery teams.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

He might. He’s an ideal need for a lot of teams that need a guard too.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

I think Blake Hinson is another name to consider. He isn’t really a name that gets thrown out there, but he 6’7″, strong and athletic, can shoot, and capable defensively. He missed two years with a medical problem, so he is an older prospect, but if the league wants big long wings who can shoot he fits the bill.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Riley Kugel out of Florida is catching steam too. These Conference tournaments are great.

[HitsterParticipant]

Riley has been averaging 18ppg over his last 8 games so certainly coming into form.

Marquette vs St Johns looked one hell of a game.

Any major thoughs on Kyle Filipowski, he’s having a nice rookie year and had a good shooting game tonight hitting 4 from 6 of his 3 pointers. Solidly built 7ft guy who is a good rebounder and has nice scoring potential I thought might be a bit higher up a few mocks.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

That Marquette game was awesome! They’re going to be a team to deal with come tournament time. I like Filipowski. I don’t think he’s separated himself from guys in the lottery though. His defense is the biggest concern. I think he’s a solid first round pick atm.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Did anyone else see Givony’s big board today? Seems like he has some guys that might not even enter the draft pretty high on there still. Not sure on Kel’el Ware, Dillon Mitchell, etc. I think him and the rest of the draft world are a little more down on GG too.

[OhCanada-Participant]

GG reminds me alot of what us Raptors fans see from Achuiwa. Flashes of amazing potential. widely inconsistent, terrible vision but has a base of being just an outstanding defender. I haven’t watched him enough to tell if his vision is as bad as Achuiwa’s (worst in the league) or if his defending is as good as Achuiwa’s (amongst the best in the league tbh) but from what I have seen from him thats pretty much my perception of him. I don’t think he’s ever gonna put it together but the dudes defensive abillty will get him on the floor which will give him a chance top develop.

[HitsterParticipant]

Ware would be drafted on upside and his defensive potential. Ideally he’d stay in college another year but if he was getting interest he might test the waters for as long as he could. A lot of lottery teams own those late first rounders this year so someone there or in the early 2nd round might take a flyer on him.

Givony’s big board has Ware as 5th rated C on his big board. I’d personally have Zach Edey above him but might have Ware ahead of Nnaji who Givony has as his 4th C.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Interesting take. They should definitely test the waters, but if they don’t get a first round promise or something then they’re in danger of not getting drafted. Test the waters but stay isn’t a bad idea if they can improve.
That Tennessee/Mizzou game was good earlier today. Julian Phillips is another guy who may or may not decide to enter. I bet he will but not sure he’s a 1st round pick atm. The game I’m about to watch now is UConn/Marquette. This should be a war…

[OhCanada-Participant]

Brandon Miller had a really good showing today in the quarterfinals in an easy win against Mississippi St. His scoring has been inefficient lately although the big thing was he had 4 assists in the first half and by that time the game was over. I don’t think he will ever have the burst or first step to create separation like a Paul George can but his ball handling is very good and if he can watch guys like Luka Doncic and Josh Giddey to figure out how they create seperations and draw doubles it could help him become a more lethal ballhandler.

[HitsterParticipant]

Brandon as a ball handler at the next level is an interesting option. I don’t see him ever see him being his team’s main ball handler. If he did become the best player on his NBA team then he’d have the ability to dish out a fair few assists and his passing and basketball IQ would be important parts of his game. He is a good rebounder too so could be a great fantasy game option if the assists are there too.

Good comparision of GG to Precious too Oh Canada. I’ve not noticed Precious having a McGee like reputation for silly plays so if he does his defensive job and just hands the ball off then he is doing the key things which he is good at. The team will give him easy baskets and know when to involve him. We look for players to have scoring range these days but good defence is always a big plus and these shooters need guarding so as long as the more defensive guy has good fundamentals and can do his job he’ll always have NBA value IMO.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Oh man Precious is a nightmare to watch. Ask anybody that watches the Raptors regularly. Anytime the ball is in his hands you hold your breath. Its not necessarily Shaqtin-the-fool moments but its just the routine plays he still doesn’t make. Like not passing on a 2 on 1/3 on 1. Drawing help just to force a contested shot. Stuff like that. Its stuff you learn when your a child, you get benched for when your 9 and he still does it. But he’s so good defensively you have to play him and if his shots falling you have one of the most dynamic players in the league. Kinda what I see with GG.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

It’s Conference tournament time still and the last Saturday before the big dance. Every game out there at this point should live up to expectations. Here they are:

UMass Lowell @ Vermont
Cornell @ Yale
Mizzou @ Alabama
Ohio State @ Purdue
Norfolk State @ Howard
St. Louis @ VCU
Penn @ Princeton
Cincinnati @ Houston
Vanderbilt @ Texas A&M
Penn State @ Indiana
Fordham @ Dayton
Texas Southern @ Grambling
Tulane @ Memphis
Texas @ Kansas
Utah State @ San Diego State
Xavier @ Marquette
Kent State @ Toledo
Marist @ Iona
Duke @ Virginia
UAB @ Florida Atlantic
UC Fullerton @ UC Santa Barbara
Arizona @ UCLA
Grand Canyon @ Southern Utah

Somehow the game I’m excited about the most is that UAB/Florida Atlantic one. Hope UAB wins and they both make it. These smaller schools still in are something worth watching for sure.

[OhCanada-Participant]

I’ll be watching today for sure. Tons of great games, real basketball!

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

idk, but tomorrow’s selection Sunday is going to be interesting. Marquette looked legit. Alabama looked like a contender too. Houston is tough. This is exciting! Texas destroyed Kansas. I didn’t see that one coming. Thought Kansas would at least make it a game of it. This Florida Atlantic team with Johnell Davis, Alijah Martin and company are dominating a very good UAB team… Second half’s about to start on that one…

[OhCanada-Participant]

Houston could be in trouble with Sasser being injured. He’s arguably the best player in the country. With him injured I’m not sure I have a favorite although Alabama has definitely been looking good lately. Edey has been dominate and Purdue has a good team behind him but you need elite guard play in crunch time as we saw last year with Duke and UNC. Its definitely an interesting year.

Dukes been heating up, UCLA has looked outstanding, Gonzaga has all those seniors. Should be fun.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

That spill by Sasser wasn’t good, but I have a hunch he could be back by next week. We’ll have to see. Hopefully it’s nothing serious. They still looked gritty without him. Memphis still has their hands full too.
That Florida Atlantic team is something to watch out for.
UCLA does look good, but without Clark I don’t think they’re even quite as good as Houston without Sasser. The Arizona/UCLA game is about to start and should be a good one.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Amari Bailey is having a game again. I was never that high on him, but maybe he is somebody in the here and now the way he’s been playing.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Fell asleep watching the UCLA game. That sucks. I don’t think UCLA will miss Clark too much. They have so many player like Amari Bailey who can step up. So many Guards.

[HitsterParticipant]

Hopefully Sasser is back as he has been the Cougars go to guy and was playing himself into the first round of draft IMO.

Does Kendric Davis get NBA interest as scoring shot creator or is he considered too small for current NBA?

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Kendric Davis is a great college player. He’s too short.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Yeah I was hoping he would fall to Toronto early 2nd but doesn’t look like that would happen. So many teams Sasser can help. Miami seems like a perfect fit, Utah with their multiple picks, Brooklyn to pair him with Mikal Bridges, Houston is there. Yeah he could pretty much help any team.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Someone wanna explain to me the hype behind Nick Smith. I just don’t see it.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

For better or worse however you want to take it, he’s a slightly bigger Bones Hyland with more upside imo.

[HitsterParticipant]

Nick has had a stop start season but went off in some games so a lot is about his upside but his shooting percentage last night was terrible and he took nearly as many shots as the other starters combined. The Razorbacks blew adouble digit lead so it wasn’t like they were playing catch up for most of the game and Nick was trying to play heroball to drag them back into it.

Kendric Davis’ lack of size in current NBA on defence jumps out to me which is a pity as he has a good creative offensive game but if his scoring opportunities were snuffed out by bigger defenders you’d need a Steph level shooter to compensate.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

you make a good case for Kendric, but then I keep bringing prospects those size to Sharife Cooper and Kennedy Chandler and it makes me wonder though.

[HitsterParticipant]

I look for upside, speed, strength and size in NBA prospects. Also when guys have been doing well in college and not declared you do wonder if they aren’t getting NBA interest or want to try and contend for a college title. I think also we get so caught up in one and done guys that some players do develop in college and we maybe overlook them.

Zach Edey dominating in the paint in the NCAA but could he do that in the NBA and has he the engine to get up and down the court in the fast paced NBA . Also is he quick enough to defend guys away from the basket?

[OhCanada-Participant]

Oh wow. Good matchmaking. Houston’s got some tough matches in there.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

so who you got? Wondering if you got a bracket?

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

Kendric Davis is probably not the 6’0″ he is listed at. He is a great player, but small. In as much as people have kicked dirt on back to the basket big men in the NBA, every inch under 6’3″ is another hurdle for a player. In both instances, there are still guys who make it. It is just hard to make to get an NBA team to want to invest in them.

Edey reminds me of Boban. He has good hands and balance for his size, and is surprisingly skillsy considering how late he took up the game, but is slow. He has been the best player in college basketball, and I think he will be a valuable player for the Canadian national team, because you can just park him in the paint defensively. As far as the NBA is concerned, will a team want to adapt how it plays to incorporate his strengths and weaknesses? Teams have been very content to push the pace at all cost in the regular season. That won’t work with him. given the NIL climate, maybe he can be enticed to return to Purdue.

[HitsterParticipant]

If Purdue go close in March Madness I could see Edey returning for his senior year to try and take them to a title. Zach would be okay for certain NBA match ups but the uptempo teams would just run him off court. I recall years back Roy Hibbert was just left on the Pacers bench when they played the Suns and Roy was quicker than Zach at a similar age I’d think.

In the 2000’s Zach would have likely been a mid first rounder but the game has moved on from that era.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

It isn’t a matter of fair. Jose Alvarado was not supposed to succeed in the NBA. He was undrafted, undersized, a senior coming out, and not a great shooter. He has been far better than the lottery picks Dyson Daniels and Kira Lewis. It is kind of sad that the only reason he had the chance to make it is because those two can’t be of use on the court. Mac McClung got his name out there at the dunk contest, but he has also done everything a guy can do in the G-League to earn a shot for two years. He can’t force a team to give it to him. Last year, Lance Stephenson and Greg Monroe were called in due to covid shortages after being out of the NBA for multiple years and instantly became more valuable than half the guys on their team. It didn’t help them get a job this season. Carmelo Anthony was 38% from three last year. Thanasis Antetokounmpo has a job and DeMarcus Cousins does not.

Teams are valuing a style of play now more than in years past. It doesn’t mean Edey is incapable of having a role. It does mean he is less likely to get a chance. It means Kendric Davis is less likely to get a chance. At 5’8″, Markquis Nowell would probably face an uphill battle in any era to get to the NBA, but he is probably more important to K-State’s tournament chances than Keyontae Johnson or Nae’qwan Tomlin who likely will get a long look this year (or next should Tomlin return).

[HitsterParticipant]

Teams almost look for hybrid players now the small guy and the halfcourt slower giants seem to have gone. Would a Yao Ming get drafted high like he was I wonder?

I think Giannis’ brother is on the team as much to keep him happy as anything or as a someone the Greek Freak can confide in. Although the team could easily create a position for him on the staff if better players were available. Likewise Haslem at the Heat he hardly ever plays but is there as a locker room leader, this could be done in a none playing role too in effect.

Some guys games age well others not so, PJ Tucker and Al Horford are still starters in their mid to late 30’s and PJ was never near the player Al was.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

One aspect of a player’s ageing curve that so many people miss is that an NBA season is not an AAU, college, European league season. It ages you differently. The number of games, minutes, travel, and intensity all play a role. Horford was at Florida for three years. Tucker didn’t join the Suns until he was 27. Steve Nash and Kobe were both in the 1996 draft. Nash played four years at Santa Clara, and Kobe went from high school. Nash had his last “star” year in 11-12. Realistically, Kobe’s was 12-13. McGrady was a star, but his star days were done by 28. Blake Griffin had his last “star” year around 29. Contrast the number of prime years with guys who entered the NBA at a later age like Curry, Klay, Draymond, Butler, Lillard, Ginobili etc. Starting the career early doesn’t really add good years to the career. It add, “well, he can’t be done, he is only 29” years. This is not something to be dismissed, especially in a year where Mikal Bridges and Jalen Brunson who were both tagged as older prospects without much upside have taken massive star turns. Bridges is averaging 26 and borderline 50-40-90 since going to Brooklyn. Brunson is 24-6 per and just needs to bump up his free throw average a bit.

[HitsterParticipant]

Blake Griffin stayed in college 2 years to Horford’s 3 so not much difference there. T-Mac’s game didn’t age well and he wasn’t playing huge minutes in his first couple of NBA years so didn’t have the miles on the clock that a Kobe did and Kobe lasted far longer. Kobe was still elite at 35 as you say so he had 17 top seasons in the NBA which is pretty good.

Guys like T-Mac, Stat, JO who came into the NBA very young did burn out sooner so there is a lot of truth in that theory. Also guys like PJ who wasn’t a star had to work harder to achieve success like say Ben Wallace did so do they have more drive than someone who was considered a star throughout their school and maybe college years, got drafted higher and always were considered to be the main man or one of the top couple of guys on their team. When they stop being this and maybe have to go to the bench they maybe cannot cope or their ego won’t take it. AI could have potentially stayed in the NBA if he had taken a bench role, Melo had similar issues for a while. Ray Allen took a bench role in Miami as he would be playing behind D-Wade and I felt that was his fair compromise. If I have to take a bench role it will be behind a superstar.

Often guys like Ralph Sampson and Grant Hill I wish had gone to the NBA sooner so we got more elite years from them.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Hahaha, crazy day in college basketball so far…

[HitsterParticipant]

Arizona and Virginia going out of the South bracket has opened parts of that up especially the bottom half.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Crazy…

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Kennesaw State/Xavier going down to final seconds!

[HitsterParticipant]

Do overall seedings matter for a team outside of their regional bracket ?

We heard a lot who was No 1 or No 2 in the nation but really it isthe regional seedings which give home court advantage as Final 4 is played as a showcase?

FDU up by 1 at halftime vs Purdue so need to keep an eye on that game.

Pitt routed the higher seeded Iowa State too

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

FDU loos well coached. They might pull the upset.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

wow

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

FDU with an incredible game! Wow! Can’t wait for this war of Memphis/Florida Atlantic soon…

[HitsterParticipant]

FDU played run and gun/Nellieball and negated the rest of the Boilermakers supporting Zach Edey from what I saw.

Memphis vs FAO is hard to call, ggod college game even without obvious likely draft prospects in it.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

FAU pulled it off… that was a tough call. Speaking of tough calls, refs had some debatable ones in that game… If your guy Kendric Davis wasn’t hurt for a bit and if Williams didn’t pick up 4 quick fouls, we could easily be seeing a Memphis run…

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

That Arizona State/TCU game had a thrilling ending.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Last year was amazing and this year has started off very promising!

[HitsterParticipant]

Kentucky Wildcats don’t seem to be getting the hype this year and only have Cason Wallace as a likely first round pick this year. But they have a loaded recruitmemt class for next season Cal has put together away from running his used car lot. If their current seniorsreturn for their extraavailable year then they could be the team to beat.

The Memphis FAO game was a close aswe thought it was going to be. Kendric Davis’ fine and nomadic college career ended, his lack of size probably stops him being drafted but he’ll have summer league, training camps, G-League or overseas to have a nice pro career. DeAndre Williams is a player I’ve never seen on any draft boards despite having decent size andbeingan excellent 3 point shooter.

Mike Miles Jnr came up big for TCU vs Arizona State and wn the dame on his FTs as he was sent to the line more than all his team mates combined.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

This Saturday’s tournament edition games:

Furman vs San Diego State
I picked Furman i my bracket for this game. But that was against Charleston. In reality it’s San Diego State. Still I’ll go Furman in a barn burner because imo Jalen Slawson is the best player on the court in this one and it should be like a home game.

Duke vs Tennessee
I’m going Duke here. I mean I have them in this very matchup in my bracket, so can’t go against them. Duke seems to be peaking at the right time and they have some guys that have figured it out a little late in the season. Tennessee and their defense won’t be an easy out though.

Arkansas vs Kansas
I had Illinois Kansas, but since Illinois is out, Arkansas as underdogs will have their shot at Kansas. I’m going Arkansas. Imo Kansas is good enough to win it all, but it’s a tough matchup here. Nick Smith is due and Anthony Black could give Gradey Dick some fits. Jalen Wilson may prove me wrong though.

Princeton vs Mizzou
I had Arizona going down to Mizzou here, instead Princeton is. I’m not sure who is the best player in this game is, but I look at the lineups and Mizzou I can make a case for a few guys. Kobe Brown being the highest rated prospect of the bunch on other big boards.

Auburn vs Houston
This matchup I had Houston winning Auburn and I’m sticking to my guns here despite the uncertainty of Marcus Sasser. I think he brings his toughness and game to the court and Houston escapes.

Penn State vs Texas
This game should be a war. Both back courts are loaded and debatably the best backcourts in the country. Imo I think Jalen Pickett might be the best player on the court. (Maybe not there’s a lot of good players) But I’m going Penn State edging out Texas in style. My bracket says the same.

Northwestern vs UCLA
Well this one should be interesting. UCLA has the better talent, and normally I’d go with that. I think they might miss Jaylen Clarke here and they’re playing against a bunch of veterans in Northwestern. This is no cake-walk. Northwestern upsets UCLA here as it does in my bracket.

Maryland vs Alabama
Well I have Alabama winning the championship in my bracket. I’m obviously picking them. I have a hunch though that this one is a Noah Clowney/Charles Bediako and maybe some guards in a group effort game and not just Miller. Maryland is sneaky tough and capable of the upset. They possess the talent and play to do it with their matchups.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

oops, my original bracket I have UCLA over Northwestern. Lots of weed. hahaha.

[HitsterParticipant]

Arkansas vs Kansas is the game I’m looking forward to. Smith, Black and Dick all together in the same game having a backcourt battle which could help sort out a few top 5 mock drafts. Jalen Wilson is another potential first round pick and a good run could help propel him into the top 20 or even lottery. Ricky Council despite playing with the much hyped Smith and Black has been outscoring them but needs to improve his 3 point range if he is to move up into a 2nd round certainty.

Kansas are the top seed in their bracket but Arkansas have some hyped players who could deliver. Bill Self having had a recent health issue if he isn’t courtside I did wonder if impact the Jayhawks game management and calls but his assistant coaches are hugely experienced and have been on wiining title teams as assistants and in some cases players under Coach Self. So they will know Bill’s gameplans and even if Bill cannot be courtside he’ll have had his imput and the players may well go out and really play for him.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

neither one of us mentioned Jordan Walsh either.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Here comes the game you’ve been waiting for.

[OhCanada-Participant]

UConn seems like one of the real contenders.

Walsh is a very unique player. NBA bound imo.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

UConn is legit. But they will have their hands full with St. Mary’s in the West. I got UConn in that one still though, but idk. St Mary’s has had more rest the last couple weeks.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Furman’s getting their butts kicked. Matt Bradley is doing good and so is San Diego State’s overall defense.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Respect to Furman though for fighting. Noone arguing or hanging their heads.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Come on ref thats bad tech!

[HitsterParticipant]

Just thinking about us talking teams having too many players on their roster and talk some may look to get out of the draft or stash. With the Int players being automatically entered in the year they turn 22 I assume this rule doesn’t apply to college players who can be drafted and return to college.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

nope, but the NILs give prospects that other route.

[HitsterParticipant]

I’d like to know how much a player might make from NILS. Endorsements might come in early for some star prospects as Nike and co might think they can get them on board early and on cheaper deals.

I haven’t noticed many guys on stuff like Cameo etc.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Jordan Walsh is keeping Arkansas alive right now.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

That Arkansas game was a heck of a game.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Wow, Princeton and Auburn are pulling through…

[HitsterParticipant]

Smith and Black didn’t do hardly anything for the Razorbacks it was Council and Davis who carried the scoring. I’d not seen much of Charlie V Mk 2 Jordan Walsh but he looks a great intangibles guy who can make others look better and does a lot of the heavy lifting. His main calling card is his defence and big wingspan he could potentially guard positions 1 to 4 in the NBA in due course.

IMO he’d be the sort of guy a contending team would take maybe in 2nd round and develop by moving him up the bench over time to be a key rotational role player as a starter or a top bench option.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Houston is looking like Houston again.

[HitsterParticipant]

Marcus Sasser could be playing himself into the first round of the draft.

Brandon Miller also doing his talking on court tonight.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Nick Smith is the 4th best player in this draft? Theres no fucking way!

I’m usually more reserved but I’ve watched a ton of his games and he’s still a project and far from being a consistent NBA contributor. I see the upside but at 4 you need a player with upside that can contribute right away.

[HitsterParticipant]

If Smith and Black are who we are led to believe by the mock drafts then they should be the best players on their college team and driving them to success. But Davis and Council were the guys getting the shots and doing the scoring, if Smith and Black cannot be trusted to get shots in an NCAA game then how can they be high NBA draft picks.

If you are a 4th or 5th pick going onto a team with say 25 wins the previous season you’d be expected to bring something to the table and start showing promise even if the first year may be development and the higher you are drafted the more that is expected. You might be given a position and told to make it your own. Look at where Jaden Ivey is now who was drafted 5th last summer, I cannot see Smith or Black being there within a year or even two as Ivey had a Soph year with the Razorbacks.

Smith would be return to college guy unless a team with multiple picks like Magic or Jazz take him lower down the draft and make him a long term project having taken or taking guys who are NBA ready with their other picks.

[HitsterParticipant]

Kansas State have beaten UK in the battle of the Wildcats. Good to see Keyonte Johnson back and play well again after his huge health scare a couple of seasons ago. He was looking a nice prospect then and may well have been drafted back in 2021. I’d agree he can be a good mid second round pick this time.

Markquis Nowell also had a great game but at under 5ft 8ins he is surely too small to get NBA interest but has the game to make a nice living in overseas leagues.

Cason Wallace had the best game I’ve seen him have and looks a likely mid to late first rounder. Oscar Tshiebwe dominated the boards in both rebounding and scoring but is maybe 10 years too late to be a legit NBA prospect. I wonder if he returns for his extra senior year as he can be a huge dominating presence around a top young recruiting class.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

Tshiebwe has a chance in the NBA. He did not move as well this season as last. I assume that procedure he had in mid-October meant he probably should not have been back on the court in mid-November. He obviously will need to handle pick and roll defense better, but there is a difference between being able to make it and having great upside. Make no mistake, there is still value in being able to clear the boards defensively and create extra possessions for the offense. This is still the first season Tristan Thompson has not been active, and he was still starting two years ago. There is not a ton of difference between what Thompson offered for most of his career (obviously, he entered with people thinking he would have been more as the 4th overall pick) and what you can very safely assume Oscar can provide. Whether or not that gets him drafted is not clear, but he will get a chance.

K-State is a fun team, and the door is wide open for them to go to the Final Four at this point. Obviously, Keyontae is a great story. Nowell seems highly unlikely to get a chance in the NBA, but he is a great player for his size. I’m a huge fan of his. While I think Nae’Qwan is more raw than Nicolas Claxton when he came out of Georgia, I see a lot of similarities. Hopefully, Tomlin’s shot doesn’t regress the way Claxton’s has in the NBA. Given how little organized basketball he has played, I hope he either returns or lands with a team that has a track record of utilizing their G-League affiliate to develop guys.

Jacob Toppin did a great job defensively on Keyontae. I think that says more about Toppin than Keyontae. He is long, athletic, and taken big strides this year, not just hanging out with Lilly, but will he be able to offer enough offensively to make an impact defensively in the NBA?

[HitsterParticipant]

Oscar Tshiebwe having remained in college so long I do wonder whether he hasn’t had much interest from the NBA. I agree that as a big body who is an elite rebounder and who is a good NCAA scorer that Oscar would be able to contribute to the NBA but whether a team takes him when he does declare it remains to be seen.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Creighton has the best starting 5. All those guys are NBA bound. They have no depth whatsoever but those 5 are amazing at the college level. We’ll see how far that gets them.

I think SDSU beats Alabama and if they don’t Creighton will.

[HitsterParticipant]

Creighton do have a nice starting 5 and 3 of them are down to go in the 2nd round of the next 2 drafts on this site’s mocks. If Nembhard keeps on shooting like he did tonight he’ll get interest as a scoring PG bench option for NBA teams although lack of height will likely stop him being a first rounder in current NBA mentality.

Kalkbrenner like a number of college bigs may not be quick enough to be a high pick but he is a skilled 7ft plus defensive anchor and he is developing his 3 point range. If he improves his floor spacing I could see him getting a 2nd round nod when he declares too.

Creighton seem to have a lot of German/European sounding names on their roster btw.

I agree with Oh Canada their bench depth could well be an issue deep into March Madness but one of the guys hit a trio of 3 pointers tonight to help them secure the win.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

FDU although they lost today, they looked good. FAU will have their hands full next round… Creighton’s starting 5 looks great. Their lack of depth though against Alabama… Idk, it could happen. San Diego State is no joke though. I thought if anyone beats Alabama it would be if not in the championship game the possibility of Marquette beating them due to matchups. Well they’re out now. Hahaha. The rest of the Big East UConn, Xavier and as mentioned earlier Creighton all look like very tough outs. The winner could be from that conference, who knows? Love this time of year…

[OhCanada-Participant]

Yeah Alabama is really good. Charles Bediako (Canadian) has been in great form lately. He’s like the X Factor. I just don’t think Bama can keep surviving these terrible shooting nights Brandon Miller occasionally has. SDSU is gonna be a really tough game for them, they are gonna have to show alot of grit to beat them.

Uconn is ridiculous. Only teams I see beating them are UCLA and Houston.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

I picked Xavier over UConn in my bracket, as they have UConn’s number this year. Both teams have a squad this year though.

[HitsterParticipant]

Hawkins and Jackson at UConn and Jacquez at UCLA have the potential to put themselves into the late first round mix if they have a good tournament. Sanogo can also work his way up the board especially as he developed a 3 point range in regular season and has been scoring heavily in the tourney.

[HitsterParticipant]

Jonathan Givony has done an NCAA Tournament update about the top draft prospects playing in it :-https://www.espn.co.uk/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/35897400/2023-nba-draft-how-top-prospects-fared-ncaa-tournament

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Happy Sweet 16!!! Not totally confident in picking winners at this point though. I guess I’m hoping for advancements in my bracket. Going to be tough with Tennessee playing FAU. The way Amari Bailey’s been playing I think UCLA has a good shot against the Zags, although Gonzaga is capable of beating anyone in the country. UConn’s chances are pretty good tonight imo. Arkansas will need big games from their underclassmen tonight. I guess I’m rooting for Nowell in the Kansas State game, although I have neither one of these teams in my bracket.
Tomorrow’s games I guess I’m a little bias and shouldn’t be at this point. Oops. But Princeton in the Sweet 16 to me is a bit lucky. They’re no slouches, but I think Creighton is the pick of this round. The way San Diego State played, they’re no easy out and capable of beating anyone. Doubt they are cupcake city for Alabama. I still have Alabama pulling it off, but I’m hesitant. Houston and Miami could really go either way if Miami plays to their fullest. Houston is a little more consistent though. Xavier/Texas should be a war.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Wow, Nowell was the star and the hero of that game…

[HitsterParticipant]

Titanic game between Kansas State and Michigan State going to OT before KSU edged it. Keyontae Johnson putting up another good performance and cementing his position as an upper to mid 2nd round pick with his first round chances increasing the deeper he takes his team.

Markquis Nowell also having another good game as his and Ketontae’s NCAA last dance carries on. KSU must really fancy their chances of a first final 4 spot for nearly 60 years which would be a great accomplishment by first season HC Jerome Tang. Having been associate head coach on the Baylor 2021 championship Jerome could be getting NBA interest with this pedigree although he has a long lucrative contract with KSU.

UConn are taking Arkansas literally to school dominating across every category and look like having a blow out win. The Razorbacks are having or being made to have a terrible shooting game.,

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

This has been a fantastic night in college hoops…

[OhCanada-Participant]

Well just like I thought Miller is having a tough night shooting against SDSU althoughthey have still been the better team and Bediako has been amazing for them. SDSU won the first half but it seems like Bama has figured them out early in the 2nd. Great game!

Wheres Bradley at?

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

SDSU is hanging in there.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Said it last year too Nathan Mensah is an NBA player. The job he’s been doing on Miller needs to be opening some eyes. Just sign the guy and tell him to practice hard to help your teams culture and competition level.. The guys length, agility and defensive skill is tremendous. Even if he’s just the 12th man on the roster his entire career thats a guy I want on my team.

Not a big fan of these long forwards who’s only answer is to shoot their way out of a slump. Jabari Smith is the same way. Miller’s just tossing up bricks and he isn’t doing much else to help his team in this situation. Hes not quick enough to get by Mensah and he has no midrange and Mensah knows it. This has happened all year but more often than not he’s been bailed out by the talent he has around him but he won’t get that chance as a top 3 pick.

Bradley can’t even hit the rim right now…

[OhCanada-Participant]

Im gonna do Isaiah Wong vs Marcus Sasser at some point. Not sure how I missed that one… They are playing now, stats are identical, both combo guards, one listed as the 39th pick the other the 41st.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Nigel Pack just knocked down three 3pters in a row against Houston. He has 7 of them now. Looks like Miami is gonna beat my team!

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Wow, congratulations on that SDSU over Alabama… Bama was off but SDSU has that swarming defense. Houston’s in trouble too. There goes the end of my bracket… oh well

[armchairgmParticipant]

Bracket busted, but one happy former Aztec. Let’s fucking go S D S U Aztecs fight.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Whoa, this site just noticed has Nick Smith high still despite the piss poor tournament showing and bad finish to the season. Taylor Hendricks at 4. Those are some interesting takes there.

[HitsterParticipant]

I agree with a hell of a lot of what you say Norrin – March Madness in many ways is a better test of a players’ potential you want to see if these guys can step up or not. People talk about potential but a top 5 draft pick should realistically be a dominant player in college if he is expected to be an NBA starter or key rotational player the next year. PEople say they are playing guys who are 3 or 4 years older in college but in the NBA you will be playing against guys who have been in the league for over a decade and are multiple All Stars or know every trick in the book so how do the prospects fair then?

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

…Just looked up on the PIT mock so far and noticed Markquis Nowell is 5’7″ 155 lbs! Damn! Don’t know maybe he gets a 10 day contract? Not sure he ever sees an NBA uniform. I’m rooting for him.

[HitsterParticipant]

I am still trying to work out how the NCAA tournament will impact my mock – I’m delighted the site has put Keyontae into the first round and Wong at Miami also doing his prospects no harm.

The actual tournament is wide open so I went to the betting odds – UConn are favourites followed by Texas and then Gonzaga are 3rd favourites so whoever wins UConn vs Gonzaga Elite 8 is likely to be favourites for the Final 4 weekend. But then that team would potential meet Texas in the SFs so one of the lesser fancied teams will have to make the title game at least. Creighton might be an interesting choice amongst these teams IMO as they have a very strong starting 5.

With so many of the later first round picks having been traded to lottery teams this will affect how teams look at the draft as with a lot of teams having multiple picks roster numbers become an issue. Will some play off teams try to buy in and take a long term guy who they can slowly develop on a relevant team.

Also the 2024 draft doesn’t look to have the wow factor at the top and is being considered not a potentially good one. There is talk that one and done could be scrapped in next CBA so there could be a “superdraft” in say 2025 so teams may have an eye on that and want to keep picks for that year when a mid first rounder could be like a top 8 pick in lesser drafts.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

This game going on right now is solid.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Going down to the wire.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Florida Atlantic is legit. They crushed UAB to get to the tournament. They beat a Memphis team that came off of beating Houston in the American before beating Tulane by 40… They beat FDU and the well coached style they play. Then they beat Tennessee, a team that has been very high in the BPI all season long. Also Kenpom and Team Rankings had them high all year. Now they beat the darling of the tournament in Markquis Nowell and company against KState… crazy tournament indeed! March Madness!!!

[HitsterParticipant]

UConn just demolished Gonzaga who were considered one of the other stronger teams left.

Markquis Nowell lost nothing in defeat of Kansas State having another very good game.

[OhCanada-Participant]

They have really found their stride late in the season and have so many high level options on both ends. Their jkust too much for any of these teams right now. I dont see them losing unless they play Creighton

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

UConn seems to be the team to beat atm, but SDSU/Creighton is a game right now! It’s anyone’s Final Four really at this point. SDSU just took down mighty Alabama. Something they have in common with UConn. Creighton’s tough though. This is a big, close game!

[HitsterParticipant]

Markquis Nowell will surely get a Summer League and Training Camp invites if we assume he doesn’t get drafted but if a team is looking for a PG to run the end of the bench unit I could see him getting NBA deal. He would be a livewire on offence and a steal waiting to happen on defence.

I’ll be interested to see what good overseas offers he might get as teams looking at the list of available NCAA graduates would likely have him high on their lists as he could be a great playmaker and scorer in a decent European league and make a nice living there.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Yeah great game. Very physical, great matchups, tons of charges and hustle plays, some blood. This game has been a war. SDSU just grinds teams out, it becomes a game of ‘how long can you put up with this’. They are pressing full court, hanging on arms, fight through every screen. They are so annoying and I love watching them.

Bradley struggles again. He hit a picture perfect pullup jumpshot in the beginning of the game and has missed everything since. Alot of this seems to be because Creighton just allows guys like Mensah, Arop and Parrish to go unmarked load up on Butler and clog things up. Either way back to back poor games on the biggest stage will hurt any chance he had at getting drafted. I still like him though and think hes an NBA player.

Mensah has really struggled with Kalkbrenner’s size. That kinda hurts Mensah’s stock to be honest because at the college level Kalkbrenner has amazing size and agility but at the NBA its just good enough. Theres tons of guys with his skillset. If Mensah can’t guard that position exceptionally it could be hard for him to get on the floor. Meanwhile Kalkbrenner has played very well. Not only does he cut like a forward and have the agility to do so but he is skilled and intelligent.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Benching Bradley is dumb as hell no matter how you look at it.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

What a game, what an ending…

[HitsterParticipant]

Creighton’s lack of bench depth cost them the game – SDSA’s bench outscored them by 12 points in a single point game.

The Longhorns have opened up a nice lead at HT over the Hurricanes mainly through their willingness to take far more 3 point shots and convert some of these.

No-one screaming draft me but a couple of hustling and battling college games. I think Final 4’s is now UConn’s to lose personally.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

What a comeback Miami

[HitsterParticipant]

Great comeback by Miami but Texas gave up a huge amount of FTs even before they were trying to get the ball back.

San Diego State making their first ever Final Four likewise with Florida Atlantic Owls who have come from nowhere and one of them will make the NCAA Final.

The Miami Hurricanes under veteran coach Jim Larranga are yet another Final 4 debutee but did make Elite 8 last year so do have recent proven tournament form and have been tournament regulars under their current coach who took the George Mason Patriots to a Final 4 back in 2006.

UConn who were a powerhouse under the legendary Jim Calhoun winning 3 titles and then another title under Kevin Ollie but were then under an NCAA cloud for several years but Dan Hurley has steadily turned things around.

The winner of the UConn vs Hurricanes match will be heavily favoured to win the title but in this post season of shocks can we predict anything.

[OhCanada-Participant]

UConn beats SDSU.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

Note for next year, class standing is an odd state at the moment because of how the covid season is calculated into their class standing, but Miami’s 8-man rotation has four guys in their 4th year or beyond in some college or university, two in their 3rd year, and two in their 2nd. UConn’s 9-man rotation has three guys in their 4th year or beyond, three in their 3rd year, two in their 2nd, and one in his 1st. San Diego State’s 9-man rotation has seven guys in their 4th year or beyond and two in their 3rd year. Florida Atlantic’s 9-man rotation has four guys in their 4th year or beyond and five in their 3rd year. In this era, the transfer portal and returning players are far more important for NCAA success than the recruiting rankings. It is not a guarantor as UNC and Kentucky can attest after this season, but it is so much easier to win through the portal and retention than it is with freshmen. Also, just because a team has not done it before is not a reason to dismiss their chances. Of the last ten Final Fours, there have been 27 different schools to take the 40 slots. Nova is the only school to win more than one title, though UConn could get there next week. It is a fun era, though admittedly it does stink that there is a good chance much of Florida Atlantic’s team gets raided in the portal later this spring.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

I’d really love to see Florida Atlantic run it back next year regardless of outcome this year. They’re tough.

Armando Bacot looks like is staying for 1 more season. He’ll be one of those older players you described.

Nathan Mensah is a guy you described on San Diego State. That guy’s over 25 on draft night this year.

Still don’t know what Donovan Clingan is going to do. If he declares his stock is a bit stiff compared to where it should be. If he stays is Sanogo staying as well? Don’t like that situation. If he takes the transfer portal route he could be a top 10 pick.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

Mensah will be finishing his MBA this summer, helped get San Diego State to the Final Four, and will probably be at minimum a training camp invite come fall. It is possible he sticks around the NBA. Teams that want a mobile rim protecting big man might want to invest a year or two in seeing if he can work out.

Kel’el Ware entered the transfer portal today and Tyrese Proctor announced he would return to Duke. On the plus side, they seem to have a better sense of their readiness than much of the mock draft industry. They didn’t have good years. Proctor got better running the point as the year went on, but has to become a better shooter. As for Ware, even after N’Faly Dante got hurt, Ware was behind Nathan Bittle and Lok Wur. I get how an athletic 7-footer who shows any kind of promise as a shooter gets people excited, but there is a big gap between what he can be and where he is at. College is a much safer place to close it.

Clingan is not a guy for this draft. It is a little like the Ware thing where he is 7’2″ and moves well. Ok, but there is a lot of skill development that needs to take place. The level of athlete it takes for someone to be able to contribute when all they can do is make layups and dunks is higher than that of Clingan.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

So do you think Sanogo is returning?

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

With international guys on student visas, they are limited in their NIL opportunities. From what I understand, Kentucky was able to find work arounds with Oscar. I read San Diego State was able to get Nathan Mensah a paid internship that was within the rules to help get him back. I don’t know if Connecticut can do so with Adama Sonogo. I hope they can. I think that is a big part of the equation. Sanogo doesn’t project especially well into the NBA, and is probably comped to Vernon Carey. He has improved this year. He certainly learned how to pass. He is a much better free throw shooter, and keeping teams honest when he catches it at the arc. Big money isn’t really available for first time pros in Europe as it recovers from covid losses as well as fewer high paying gigs with the Russian teams not being in continental competitions. Even with China re-opening, they changed the rules so only one international player can be on the floor at a given time, which disincentivizes teams from signing more than one or two. Financially, I hope there is some kind of work around so Sanogo can return. I can see a world where he and Clingan operate a bit like Ballo and Tubelis at Arizona. Ballo is thicker than Clingan, and Clingan a better athlete, but neither can leave the paint. Sanogo isn’t as polished as Tubelis, but probably needs work in that capacity to make himself more valuable as a pro in the NBA or Europe.

UConn is a very good college team, but all their guys have caveats when projecting them. I have touched on Clingan and Sanogo. Jackson can’t shoot. Hawkins seems to be this year’s Agbaji, but he is still a smaller two-guard in this era. Newton is solid, but has no standout trait. Karaban might be the one whose style and size translates best, but I don’t think he would declare this year.

[HitsterParticipant]

I’d assume Clingan stays but he would still likely be playing behind Sanogo so his chances might be a bit limited even next season.

Great points by BTPH about the amount of different teams to make the Final 4 over the past decade and how this year the teams have a lot of guys in their 3rd to 5th NCAA seasons. The amount of players who will have this much experience will reduce next year and then be totally gone by 24/25 as the extra year guys will have all finished their college careers.

Maybe the NCAA will be less about providing a springboard to one and done guys with Overtime Elite signing up prospects and if the one and done rule does go. This year the NCAA has produced some great games and stories but less prospects, the NCAA will continue to thrive and teams will be more built up year on year like in the past. There will still be top college players drafted but they may be the older guys and not one and dones.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

McDonald’s All-American game is on tonight in case anyone didn’t get the memo… ESPN 9pm ET.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

The West is dominating so far.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

East in the second half so far… Hope we’re in for a good finish.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Collier has to want to run that again… his FTs are horrifying right now. He needs to improve that through next season. Good player still, but he blew it.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

In a lot of ways, the guys taking advantage of the extra year are making their career whole because they missed a year of development because of all the restrictions. The combination of cancellations, covid pauses, meeting and training restrictions etc. meant they weren’t afforded a typical collegiate year. It is also true for students in general. It was a different experience. The transfer portal will still live on beyond those cohorts. It is an equalizer. Some guys were underrecruited, others overrecruited, there are late bloomers, a few late starters, and a lot of guys who didn’t pick a school that matched them well out of high school. It is a pool that won’t thin out.

Caleb Love had a horrible year at UNC. He didn’t partner well with RJ Davis, and how much of that was a result of personal issues isn’t clear. It is entirely possible he finds a better spot next year. Brandin Podziemski could not see the court at Illinois. He was sensational at Santa Clara. It makes him an interesting player to assess now that he has declared for the draft, but he certainly made a better choice for himself the second time around. Also, it shouldn’t necessarily be a warning sign. Tari Eason was not especially productive as a freshman at Cincy before going to LSU. Walker Kessler was buried at UNC, and broke out at Auburn. Andrew Nembhard got away from a sinking ship at Florida, and played in a national final at Gonzaga. Those are three of the rookies who have played the ten most minutes this year. Jake Laravia has not played a ton with Memphis, but could very well still be in college had he not transferred from Indiana State to Wake Forest. It is no guarantee the NBA would have been as impressed with how he did in the Valley as opposed to the ACC.

[HitsterParticipant]

Players being able to transfer and not redshirt has made a huge difference. College recruitment depts probably value a proven college player who wishes to transfer as high or even higher than a HS prospect. Hopefully the powerhouse colleges don’t look to raid the better players from smaller overachieving teams.

It will be interesting to see how many players who transfered are drafted this year as there were some notable successes as BTPH has stated above.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Happy Final Four!!!

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

FAU vs SDSU is everything worth watching.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Ok, maybe best game of the tournament so far… SDSU in the finals… against UConn perhaps…

[HitsterParticipant]

Real hard grind college game maybe not what the more thrill seeking NBA fan wants but still a great game. I felt sorry for the Owls but the Aztecs clawed their way back into it and made the winning bnasket.

At least this year’s intake should reduce these ridiculous NBA scoring games the way they shoot if you exclude Wemby.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

UConn’s a problem. SDSU is the one I’m rooting for as an underdog team, but UConn looks the fit of a championship team.

[HitsterParticipant]

SDSU’s game is built on defence but can they stop Sanogo and Hawkins scoring threat?

Both teams scored 72 points in their Semi Finals but I feel SUSU will need to keep UConn down below this number if they are to have a chance as if it becomes a higher scoring game and SDSU have to chase I think UConn will pull away and win. SDSU need to keep it tight and try and limit Sanogo’s clear shooting chances as much as they can. If UConn get a lead they can slow it down use their bench and take time out of the game.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

I’ll admit, Sanogo had a fantastic game last night. I actually don’t know if he will have the success against SDSU interior defense. It’s amazing in case you haven’t caught SDSU… there’s going to be some interesting matchups. I think UConn wins it because, like you said they are deeper and also have Andre Jackson to sick on Matt Bradley. Then Jordan Hawkins can play shooting range game of H.O.R.S.E. But you never know til’ it’s over. So yeah you’re right about the bench, but SDSU vs UConn in the front court is a wash. Unless Clingan gets comfortable that is. He’ll even have his problems. Going to be a good game.

Wow if UConn’s big men both stay in college, Clingan’s going to the transfer portal and becoming a surefire first rounder next year. He’s being held back in so many ways at UConn. Him and Riley Kugel are the biggest test the waters freshmen out there right now as we wait and see who’s going to declare. We don’t know what they’re doing yet. On another side note, Kel’el Ware should have a year next year. I expect him to be one of the most improved players in the country next year. Tyrese Proctor next year will be this year’s Kobe Bufkin at Duke.

[HitsterParticipant]

Sanogo has the size and strength to muscle his way to the basket and also hit a couple of 3 pointers last night so Goldin and Rosado will have to do a good defensive job on him. SDSU will look to play tight interior defence and buzz about so Clingan maybe cannot be used that much in rotation. If UConn get Clingan into the game him and Sanogo will dominate the boards and make it very hard for SDSU

If Ware and Clingan both enter the transfer portal then teams looking for a big man will have a good look at both. If Clingan has won a title he will almost have a free hit at where he goes and choose purely where he will get most minutes and development.

Baye Fall and Aaron Bradshaw could be the best freshmen C entering the NCAA next year and we have Aday Mara in Spain who could be a total draft wildcard but after that the likes of Ware and Clingan could well look to push themselves up into this mix.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Looks like UConn is doing whatever they want for the most part.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

well SDSU tried to put up a fight… UConn just too much.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

So who do we think improved their stocks most now that the tournament is over???

[HitsterParticipant]

UConn were just too strong due to internet issues across the UK by my service provider and time of game, I haven’t seen much of it. But experts are already saying UConn could repeat if the bulk of the team returns and being back as a powerhouse will make them a big draw for transfering guys and HS prospects.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

The transfer portal will complete teams next year. UConn might be a contender. Kentucky is stacked though. There’s a few good teams out there that can contend.

[HitsterParticipant]

A lot depends who returns too, ESPN had done a ranking of teams for next season and said if Edey returns to Purdue they go from being a team outside the top 20 into a top 5 or 6 team on paper.

Thinking of Zach Edey made me look back who Norrin had said looked like Sloth from the Goonies and it was Jake Stephens of Chattanooga who has finished his college career and for a 7ft 280lbs guy he has an excellent 3 point shooting percentage. I don’t know whether he’d be quick enough for the NBA but his size and shooting range could make him a dark horse to attract some interest.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Donovan Clingan’s returning

[HitsterParticipant]

With Lively declaring you’d have had him and Clingan maybe almost competing in the same area of the draft and I’d say Lively would have got nod as first of the two taken on his defensive upside. Donovan has a good chance of another very successful college season and alongside Sonogo it could give the Huskies one of the best NCAA frontcourts.

Kyle Filipowski hasn’t made a decision yet but must be leaning towards returning as he is taking so long to decide and was a likely first round pick.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Actually Clingan’s got as much defensive upside imo, but I’m glad he decided to return. I hope Sanago declares now. Doubt it though.

[HitsterParticipant]

LIvely strikes me as a better athlete than Clingan but then again Walker Kessler’s bulk was seen as an issue and he had an excellent first NBA season.

Sanogo is seen as a back to the basket player and despite having strength and a developing 3 point range in today’s climate I only see him as a 2nd rounder so I think he does return and look to get a repeat title.

Does he still have 2 years college eligability left or is it one, he was a freshman in 20/21 so does the extra year still apply to him?

[HitsterParticipant]

Kyle Filiposwki has confirmed he is returning to Duke which has made incoming prospect MacKenzie Mgbako request his release from his NLI to Duke as Kyle would be ahead of him in rotation and thus reduce his potential playing time.

Kyle returning is a big boost to Duke even if they lose Mgbako who will be a very good pick up for any college team who can give him good minutes.

Also the 2024 draft for big men with Kyle, Ware, Clowney and Clingan all returning for their Soph year, Trevon Brazile hopefully recovered from his ACL after a good start to last season. The highly rated Aaron Bradshaw going to Kentucky, Mgbako to find a landing spot and the total wildcard Aday Mara over in Spain suddenly looks to have more depth than we maybe thought it would.

I’d hope that at least a couple of these guys would have the ability to go top 10 or even inside the top 5.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Not sure what Grant Nelson’s doing atm yet, but hope he gets out of NDSU. He should go to a contender imo and get his name on the map.

[HitsterParticipant]

Duke are looking to add another C via the transfer portal so could be a nice fit for someone like Grant who wants to get on a contender/high profile team.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

Adama Sanogo is, at minimum, testing the draft waters. His IG post did not say whether or not he was definitely staying in. That said, if he stays in, UConn probably is no longer the preseason favorite. To lose both Hawkins and Sanogo can really set them back. For all the praise some people have offered Clingan, his offensive game is limited. Without Hawkins (and to a lesser extent Joey California), they lose quite a bit of their shooting. They still have time to get into the transfer portal, but it is a bigger blow to the college game than an addition to the draft.

Also, the Portsmouth Invitational is underway. Tevian Jones of Southern Utah put in 36 points in 20 minutes on 11-13 shooting (7-8 from three) in his first game. That is a good way to introduce yourself.

https://www.portsmouthinvitational.com/tournament/2023/schedule-results/

[HitsterParticipant]

I think Sanogo will be drafted probably early to mid 2nd round but I agree his loss to UConn will be similar to Purdue if Zach Edey declares. UConn will still be a good team but minus their two best players its hard to see them going all the way again next year.

[armchairgmParticipant]

Mikey Williams probably just had his career ended before it started.

[HitsterParticipant]

Not good for Mikey, he’d have had a good mentor in Penny to at Memphis.

[HitsterParticipant]

Hunter Dickinson has transfered to the Jayhawks so makes them stronger for next season. With his size and 3 point range he’ll be a handful for opponents but a bit like Zach Edey he maybe lacks the speed for today’s NBA.

[Author]

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