[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

 ESPN has an article on Coach K and how he went from a proud program that cared about kid’s educations, to a 1-and-done coach.

It actually celebrated his ability to "adjust" and even out-Cal John Calipari.

Calipari used to get ripped for establishing a program that didn’t care about the kids education and was only concerned about winning and dollars.

Now Coach K is getting celebrated for doing the same thing, applauded.  The difference is Coach K only wants "character men" in his program who can "help them win" and "do well at Duke".  His ultimate concern has now become "winning" and "good representation" of Duke, and not the education and upbringing of the kids.

The article fails in getting into his mindset.  What changed Coach K.  He before seemed to be really concerned about his athlete’s educations and upbringing.  Now he wants good kids from the outset that will represent the school well, and I find that to be extremely hypocritical.

He doesn’t want the task of taking on the troubled child and making him into a better person.  He just wants the talent that will help him and his program and his University WIN.  

What a hypocrite.  The article didn’t focus at all on why his mindset changed from the "education and maturation of student-athletes" to the "just help us win".  

The climate has changed completely now with the 1-and-done and so I know he faces no choice but to adjust, but don’t paint 1-and-done and make it seem as though now you are stuck and must go along with the tide.  

 

 Why not hold fast to your principles and focus on the kids and their "proper maturation via education" which is the high standard you and your school initially created for yourself, instead of "character kids" BS that makes it seem like all kids that don’t attend Duke and play ball elsewhere have no character.  

He’s a hypocrite.  He’s just trying to win like anyone else.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[I.C.Y.U.NV.MEParticipant]

 I think there is a difference to their methods. Yes, both recruit high level talent that will more than likely stay for one year, but Cal is running an NBA factory. He’s even stated that he cares more about getting players drafted than winning games. Notice Coach K doesn’t have an NBA combine set up for their open practices when he very easily could. K recruits one and dones as well as guys that will stick around. For every Kyrie, there is a Tyler Thornton. For every, Austin Rivers there is a Quinn Cook. For every Jabari Parker there is a Matt Jones. See what I’m saying? Coach K realizes that you NEED the talent of one and players, as well as the experience and leadership of upperclassmen. That is the formula to success of today’s college game.

[I.C.Y.U.NV.MEParticipant]

 I think there is a difference to their methods. Yes, both recruit high level talent that will more than likely stay for one year, but Cal is running an NBA factory. He’s even stated that he cares more about getting players drafted than winning games. Notice Coach K doesn’t have an NBA combine set up for their open practices when he very easily could. K recruits one and dones as well as guys that will stick around. For every Kyrie, there is a Tyler Thornton. For every, Austin Rivers there is a Quinn Cook. For every Jabari Parker there is a Matt Jones. See what I’m saying? Coach K realizes that you NEED the talent of one and players, as well as the experience and leadership of upperclassmen. That is the formula to success of today’s college game.

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

Because Coach K initially had a big problem with bringing the 1-and-done kid to his program.  Why was that?  

He, his university, didn’t want their image tainted by showing they didn’t care about education at the price of winning.  

They, unlike Kentucky, were a more sophisticated program that focused on "character athletes" who they could raise into young men.  Now, they do that with the Plumlees, but ride guys like Ingram’s jocks to the win.

Bo Ryan said "we don’t do rental players" like Coach K and Calipari, because there is something hypocritical about bringing a kid to a University, to raise him as an athlete and grow him as a man, vs riding his jock. 

Duke also held themselves to that "high standard" of not doing rental players and focusing on education, but now they’re riding the tide and saying they do it differently because they only take "character guys", as if Demarcus Cousins and Willie Cauley-Stein don’t have the character to be players at Duke, while Ingram and Okafor are good enough to be Dukies.

This is the problem most people have with Duke and why they hate them as a program.  They put off this "we’re dignified" image, when in reality, they are only concerned about winning.  

So look past what Coach K is doing to win, recruiting the character leader off the bench guys to win, thats not my conern.  My concern is how he was once focused on education and now has sweeped that to the side.  

 

 

 

 

 

  

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 I think it would be interesting to find out & coach K might have a very good answer….. I think you exposed a deeper problem w/ sports media….. The fact that none of these journalists ask anything even close to a probing, difficult question…. 

Personally I have no problem w/ Duke competing for National Championships & adjusting to the changing landscape of college basketball…. Once Calipari began upping the antee at Univ of Kentucky w/ "one & done players…" the other top Basketball school had to adjust….

 In the Legal world there is an old term called "the tragedy of commons"…… & basically what it means is even if Everyone in the community agress to not "Over-use" public resources  ……- in that case grazing land & in this case Top notch "One & Done" talent there will be an Even distribution for everyone…… However, in a free society, it Only takes one man (or woman) to say "screw everyone esle – I want my farm to grow so I can make more money for my family so I’m taking as much public land as I need so I can raise more cows & they need more land on which to graze so my business will grow & I can become rich….

 I’m sure you get the basketball analogy b/c the "tragedy of commons" applies to Every situation like this         …… & that is why it is still taught in Law schols today – hundreds of years later…. Once one man breaks that gentleman’s agreement than Everyone else is forced to do the same thing… It’s the same reason why socialism does not work in a free society….

So maybe coach K answers I don’t want to go down this road but Duke Univ will be left behind if I don’t…. and that would be a perfectly acceptable answer ……….but like you said we’ll never know b/c journalists from these large media outlets Never ask difficult questions or do investigations ……b/c they will be closed out of access to other big name figures in the sports world…. 

I understand why it happens but it sux for us fans b/c we really never get into interesting issues….. – for example the "one & done" effect on college basketball is a very interesting philisophical issue… Instead we are left with mainly puff pieces from sites like espn or SI……. unless, of course, they have an easy target they can kick around …….& that gets passed off as "tough journalism"………. Sorry for the lengthy post….

 

 

 

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 I think it would be interesting to find out & coach K might have a very good answer….. I think you exposed a deeper problem w/ sports media….. The fact that none of these journalists ask anything even close to a probing, difficult question…. 

Personally I have no problem w/ Duke competing for National Championships & adjusting to the changing landscape of college basketball…. Once Calipari began upping the antee at Univ of Kentucky w/ "one & done players…" the other top Basketball school had to adjust….

 In the Legal world there is an old term called "the tragedy of commons"…… & basically what it means is even if Everyone in the community agress to not "Over-use" public resources  ……- in that case grazing land & in this case Top notch "One & Done" talent there will be an Even distribution for everyone…… However, in a free society, it Only takes one man (or woman) to say "screw everyone esle – I want my farm to grow so I can make more money for my family so I’m taking as much public land as I need so I can raise more cows & they need more land on which to graze so my business will grow & I can become rich….

 I’m sure you get the basketball analogy b/c the "tragedy of commons" applies to Every situation like this         …… & that is why it is still taught in Law schols today – hundreds of years later…. Once one man breaks that gentleman’s agreement than Everyone else is forced to do the same thing… It’s the same reason why socialism does not work in a free society….

So maybe coach K answers I don’t want to go down this road but Duke Univ will be left behind if I don’t…. and that would be a perfectly acceptable answer ……….but like you said we’ll never know b/c journalists from these large media outlets Never ask difficult questions or do investigations ……b/c they will be closed out of access to other big name figures in the sports world…. 

I understand why it happens but it sux for us fans b/c we really never get into interesting issues….. – for example the "one & done" effect on college basketball is a very interesting philisophical issue… Instead we are left with mainly puff pieces from sites like espn or SI……. unless, of course, they have an easy target they can kick around …….& that gets passed off as "tough journalism"………. Sorry for the lengthy post….

 

 

 

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

Because Coach K initially had a big problem with bringing the 1-and-done kid to his program.  Why was that?  

He, his university, didn’t want their image tainted by showing they didn’t care about education at the price of winning.  

They, unlike Kentucky, were a more sophisticated program that focused on "character athletes" who they could raise into young men.  Now, they do that with the Plumlees, but ride guys like Ingram’s jocks to the win.

Bo Ryan said "we don’t do rental players" like Coach K and Calipari, because there is something hypocritical about bringing a kid to a University, to raise him as an athlete and grow him as a man, vs riding his jock. 

Duke also held themselves to that "high standard" of not doing rental players and focusing on education, but now they’re riding the tide and saying they do it differently because they only take "character guys", as if Demarcus Cousins and Willie Cauley-Stein don’t have the character to be players at Duke, while Ingram and Okafor are good enough to be Dukies.

This is the problem most people have with Duke and why they hate them as a program.  They put off this "we’re dignified" image, when in reality, they are only concerned about winning.  

So look past what Coach K is doing to win, recruiting the character leader off the bench guys to win, thats not my conern.  My concern is how he was once focused on education and now has sweeped that to the side.  

 

 

 

 

 

  

[I.C.Y.U.NV.MEParticipant]

 He still cares about education…that’s why no Duke player will ever their number retired unless they graduate. When a player leaves early, he always suggests they still earn their degree. Coach K has always gone for the top talent (why wouldn’t he?), he just whiffed on a lot of top recruits. Greg Monroe, Harrison Barnes (even tho he wasn’t OAD but he was perceived to be in HS), John Wall, etc… He recruited all these guys buy missed out. And Demarcus Cousins DIDN’T HAVE the character to be a Duke player. He’s matured now, but he used to be an uncoachable hot head in coming out of HS. Coach K kicked Rasheed Sulaimon off the team for similar reason. That’s evident that he won’t have any of that in the program. 

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

but why was he against the idea of 1-and-done players at all in college basketball?  Why was he principally against it, but then suddenly changed his view on it.  Why?  because Duke, coach K, needed to win and get money.  So throw your "we care about raising scholar-athletes" bs out the door.  You just want to win.  Don’t knock Kentucky for doing the same, don’t paint this picture like you all are more dignified than other universities doing the same thing.  

The point about the role players that coach K raises into winners, is BS.  Coach K should have lost to Wisconsin, the guards and poor play by Wisconsin at the end of the game got him his title.  

Why are we applauding coach K, while saying Kentucky is a disgrace.  Calipari has plenty of kids on his team that walk away with college degrees, like I’m sure Alex Poythress will be doing.  

 

 

 

  

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

but why was he against the idea of 1-and-done players at all in college basketball?  Why was he principally against it, but then suddenly changed his view on it.  Why?  because Duke, coach K, needed to win and get money.  So throw your "we care about raising scholar-athletes" bs out the door.  You just want to win.  Don’t knock Kentucky for doing the same, don’t paint this picture like you all are more dignified than other universities doing the same thing.  

The point about the role players that coach K raises into winners, is BS.  Coach K should have lost to Wisconsin, the guards and poor play by Wisconsin at the end of the game got him his title.  

Why are we applauding coach K, while saying Kentucky is a disgrace.  Calipari has plenty of kids on his team that walk away with college degrees, like I’m sure Alex Poythress will be doing.  

 

 

 

  

[I.C.Y.U.NV.MEParticipant]

 He still cares about education…that’s why no Duke player will ever their number retired unless they graduate. When a player leaves early, he always suggests they still earn their degree. Coach K has always gone for the top talent (why wouldn’t he?), he just whiffed on a lot of top recruits. Greg Monroe, Harrison Barnes (even tho he wasn’t OAD but he was perceived to be in HS), John Wall, etc… He recruited all these guys buy missed out. And Demarcus Cousins DIDN’T HAVE the character to be a Duke player. He’s matured now, but he used to be an uncoachable hot head in coming out of HS. Coach K kicked Rasheed Sulaimon off the team for similar reason. That’s evident that he won’t have any of that in the program. 

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 care about their education? I do think most players come back to get their degree.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 care about their education? I do think most players come back to get their degree.

[Stop_basketball_nonsenseParticipant]

 I don’t see it cut and dry as some of you put it. Maybe calipari cares more about winning and developing pros than academics, so what. Players who go there obviously feel they are legit future nba players, or atleast pro somwhere. At the end of the day a grown.man’s goal are his goals. 

Also unless you have heard behind closed doors face to face from cal you probaly dont fully know his full.motives.

Now, coach k has always tried to develop his players talent wise and life beyond basketball. Whether or not he is recruiting one and dones more frequently now doesnt change his goal. A coach is hired to make a basketball program a winning one and sustain that standard. Whether or not the players makes good grades won’t matter if the program has losing seasons with no glimmer of progress. Basically a losing program.gets coaches fired, so forgive coach k for trying to do what he was hired to do.

 

 

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

yes he’s brought in to win…but part of college is education and maturation.

Duke doesn’t want the "bad image" that a kid from the ghetto with a voice or opinion would bring to their institution.

Its not about the "education of young men".  its about winning and looking clean cut, not letting these "athletes" ruin our school’s prestigious reputation, all the while feeding off of them to win, regardless if they get their education or not, are 1-and-done or not.

 

Why was he initially so concerned and against the 1-and-done rule, but now is all for it?  Nobody is answering this.  

Before we applaud him, why not get to the bottom of this. 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[ChewyParticipant]

 the last decade of his free time towards Team USA and making playing for your country respectable again. Seeing that has made recruits want to play for him even more than before. After coaching USA with Durant and LBJ, he started putting in more wing heavy offenses. So the top wing HS players (who are usually wings who are bigger and stronger) want to play for him. Coach K can tell recruits, "Look at what I did with Lebron and Durant. You could fill that Durant role at Duke." What recruit wouldn’t want to hear that? Also, it is clear that the 1 and done rule is not changing anytime soon. Why would Coach K beat a dead horse by retelling how much he dislikes it over and over again. When the NBA starts to considered revoking the one and done, THEN we will hear coaches sound off again about how they feel on the rule. With the shot clock at 30 secs, coaches can’t call live ball timeouts, and an extended charge circle in the lane, there are plenty of better topics college coaches could be talking about right now.

And you are making one very big mistake with your logic. College is about education. College basketball and football is about money. Anyone telling you different (cough cough NCAA) is selling you something! There is not a single high major coach in football or basketball that cares about grades more than the sport. Some coaches do care about both, but they care about winning first. These guys are Coaches, not professors. Anyone who expects college coaches to care about academics clearly has never played college sports before. All coaches care about is that their player is eligable by NCAA standards.

Complaining that Duke recruits clean cut players is like complaining that Syracuse recruits tall guards for their zone, or that Roy Williams recruits skinny, athletic PF, or that Self recruits rock head/hard nosed PGs. Every coach has his "type" of player that he wants to recruit.

 

 

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

is what i wish Duke would come clean about.  Stop putting out this image that you care about education and grooming, and be honest that you will embrace and adapt whatever it takes to win, even if it means going against your principles of "quality education and maturation".

My problem is not that they only accept "clean" players.  My problem is that they don’t want the ghetto kid with a voice or an opinion to represent their school, who maybe wasn’t the best at school, and yet will take the kid who helps them win and ship him off after a year of school.

 

If you are going to be a 1-and-done recruit school, then go all out and take anyone, because obviosuly, education is not a priority to you.

What is then?  Preserving that clean-cut image?  Anyways, hopefully people are seeing what I’m saying.  I think you are starting to see it my way.  

 

 

 

  

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

is what i wish Duke would come clean about.  Stop putting out this image that you care about education and grooming, and be honest that you will embrace and adapt whatever it takes to win, even if it means going against your principles of "quality education and maturation".

My problem is not that they only accept "clean" players.  My problem is that they don’t want the ghetto kid with a voice or an opinion to represent their school, who maybe wasn’t the best at school, and yet will take the kid who helps them win and ship him off after a year of school.

 

If you are going to be a 1-and-done recruit school, then go all out and take anyone, because obviosuly, education is not a priority to you.

What is then?  Preserving that clean-cut image?  Anyways, hopefully people are seeing what I’m saying.  I think you are starting to see it my way.  

 

 

 

  

[ChewyParticipant]

 the last decade of his free time towards Team USA and making playing for your country respectable again. Seeing that has made recruits want to play for him even more than before. After coaching USA with Durant and LBJ, he started putting in more wing heavy offenses. So the top wing HS players (who are usually wings who are bigger and stronger) want to play for him. Coach K can tell recruits, "Look at what I did with Lebron and Durant. You could fill that Durant role at Duke." What recruit wouldn’t want to hear that? Also, it is clear that the 1 and done rule is not changing anytime soon. Why would Coach K beat a dead horse by retelling how much he dislikes it over and over again. When the NBA starts to considered revoking the one and done, THEN we will hear coaches sound off again about how they feel on the rule. With the shot clock at 30 secs, coaches can’t call live ball timeouts, and an extended charge circle in the lane, there are plenty of better topics college coaches could be talking about right now.

And you are making one very big mistake with your logic. College is about education. College basketball and football is about money. Anyone telling you different (cough cough NCAA) is selling you something! There is not a single high major coach in football or basketball that cares about grades more than the sport. Some coaches do care about both, but they care about winning first. These guys are Coaches, not professors. Anyone who expects college coaches to care about academics clearly has never played college sports before. All coaches care about is that their player is eligable by NCAA standards.

Complaining that Duke recruits clean cut players is like complaining that Syracuse recruits tall guards for their zone, or that Roy Williams recruits skinny, athletic PF, or that Self recruits rock head/hard nosed PGs. Every coach has his "type" of player that he wants to recruit.

 

 

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

yes he’s brought in to win…but part of college is education and maturation.

Duke doesn’t want the "bad image" that a kid from the ghetto with a voice or opinion would bring to their institution.

Its not about the "education of young men".  its about winning and looking clean cut, not letting these "athletes" ruin our school’s prestigious reputation, all the while feeding off of them to win, regardless if they get their education or not, are 1-and-done or not.

 

Why was he initially so concerned and against the 1-and-done rule, but now is all for it?  Nobody is answering this.  

Before we applaud him, why not get to the bottom of this. 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Stop_basketball_nonsenseParticipant]

 I don’t see it cut and dry as some of you put it. Maybe calipari cares more about winning and developing pros than academics, so what. Players who go there obviously feel they are legit future nba players, or atleast pro somwhere. At the end of the day a grown.man’s goal are his goals. 

Also unless you have heard behind closed doors face to face from cal you probaly dont fully know his full.motives.

Now, coach k has always tried to develop his players talent wise and life beyond basketball. Whether or not he is recruiting one and dones more frequently now doesnt change his goal. A coach is hired to make a basketball program a winning one and sustain that standard. Whether or not the players makes good grades won’t matter if the program has losing seasons with no glimmer of progress. Basically a losing program.gets coaches fired, so forgive coach k for trying to do what he was hired to do.

 

 

[I.C.Y.U.NV.MEParticipant]

 LOL every team wants to win. "HELLO..YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!". At the end of the day, Coach K gets paid to win ball games but to say he doesn’t care about their education or the quality of men that suit up for the program is nonsensical. Especially trying to compare him to Cal in that regard. If a player is looking like a first round pick and it’s more beneficial for them to leave rather than stay, he will advise them to leave. All this happens AFTER the season. Before the season even starts, Cal has already calculated in his head how many first round picks he’s gonna try to generate. Lol Wiscy should’ve won that game huh? It’s clear you’re just a hater. It all makes sense now.

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

coach k needs to answer his own hypocrisy.

 he tried to initially fight the wave of the 1-and-done atmosphere that was taking over college, with Calipari.

Now, he’s embraced it more so than programs like UConn, UNC, Syracuse, etc.

To make this all about recruiting and forget that Coach K was originally principally against 1-and-done but is now embracing it to win, shows a lot of hypocrisy to me.

Why did K have the change of heart?!  

 

 

 

  

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

coach k needs to answer his own hypocrisy.

 he tried to initially fight the wave of the 1-and-done atmosphere that was taking over college, with Calipari.

Now, he’s embraced it more so than programs like UConn, UNC, Syracuse, etc.

To make this all about recruiting and forget that Coach K was originally principally against 1-and-done but is now embracing it to win, shows a lot of hypocrisy to me.

Why did K have the change of heart?!  

 

 

 

  

[I.C.Y.U.NV.MEParticipant]

 LOL every team wants to win. "HELLO..YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!". At the end of the day, Coach K gets paid to win ball games but to say he doesn’t care about their education or the quality of men that suit up for the program is nonsensical. Especially trying to compare him to Cal in that regard. If a player is looking like a first round pick and it’s more beneficial for them to leave rather than stay, he will advise them to leave. All this happens AFTER the season. Before the season even starts, Cal has already calculated in his head how many first round picks he’s gonna try to generate. Lol Wiscy should’ve won that game huh? It’s clear you’re just a hater. It all makes sense now.

[Tap892Participant]

 The only reason duke "embraces" one and done more than uconn, Syracuse, and UNC is because duke actually when’s those recruiting battles. All 3 of those schools are involved with all the same players as UK and duke, they just aren’t as successful at it

[Tap892Participant]

 The only reason duke "embraces" one and done more than uconn, Syracuse, and UNC is because duke actually when’s those recruiting battles. All 3 of those schools are involved with all the same players as UK and duke, they just aren’t as successful at it

[I.C.Y.U.NV.MEParticipant]

 Exactly. UNC was battling Duke for a lot of the same players but just came up short. Doesn’t mean they "aren’t embracing the one and done culture". Those teams were in the same situation Coach K was in a few years ago when it seemed like the only caliber players that wanted to come to Duke were guys like Elliot Williams and Ryan Kelly.

[I.C.Y.U.NV.MEParticipant]

 Exactly. UNC was battling Duke for a lot of the same players but just came up short. Doesn’t mean they "aren’t embracing the one and done culture". Those teams were in the same situation Coach K was in a few years ago when it seemed like the only caliber players that wanted to come to Duke were guys like Elliot Williams and Ryan Kelly.

[HitsterParticipant]

 Duke have always been a powerhouse team, Coach K is the team USA Coach as well as being regarded as one of the greastest college coaches ever. So why are people criticising him or any recruits Duke signs for wanting to play for him or on one of the strongest teams.

Any good advisor would surely at least want their prospect to meet with Duke and Coach K. A lot of NBA front offices would also look favourably on drafting Duke guys as they know Coach K would have taught them a lot of good things.

 

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 Duke have always been a powerhouse team, Coach K is the team USA Coach as well as being regarded as one of the greastest college coaches ever. So why are people criticising him or any recruits Duke signs for wanting to play for him or on one of the strongest teams.

Any good advisor would surely at least want their prospect to meet with Duke and Coach K. A lot of NBA front offices would also look favourably on drafting Duke guys as they know Coach K would have taught them a lot of good things.

 

 

 

[Author]

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