[JoeWolf1]

Dan Gilbert has made a name for himself as a guy who is going to get "his guy." He’s raised more than a few eyebrows over the past three years, often drafting guys that he seemed to have a plan for or that seemed to be a part of a larger plan. Now, in the beginning of 2014 as he looked to have finally assembled the Cavs team that was going to compete…they’re looking again like a team destined for the high lottery.

His "guys” Tristian Thompson and Dion Waiters, have produced, but aren’t even close to being the best players on the board when Cleveland picked, and Anthony Bennett is putting together the worst season for a #1 pick since before I can remember.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but Gilbert’s picks in the high lottery have been a little questionable since David Stern announced Kyrie Irving’s name.

Damian Lillard is enough of a combo to play next to Kyrie, so is Victor Oladipo. Harrison Barnes would be averaging 15 per game as a main player in Cleveland’s offense without the selfishness issues that Waiters brings. 

Cleveland is clearly a team that WANTS to be in the playoffs, but their efforts to get their on draft night have been suspect. Maybe landing Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins is their "new" target, but what are your thoughts on Cleveland’s "master plan?” We’re a few years removed from some missed oppotunities many of us pointed out on draft nights past and Cleveland has yet to make any major improvements.

[TyroberParticipant]

 Thinking about the team they could have had makes me sick to my stomach. I thought Val should have been the 4th pick instead of Thompson, but Thompson has actually been a better player than I thought. Waiters over Lillard, Barnes, and Drummond was just a disaster. Lillard probably would have worked out at the 2 and there were questions marks about Drummond, but there was no excuses for not taking Barnes with the 4th pick. And Bennett has just been atrocious. I actually had him sliding all the way to 8th in my mock. I’m really not mad at them for the Bennett pick because he DOES have potential and since this draft class was so weak they had to pick someone. I wasn’t sold on Noel, but Oladipo looked like a complete stud before the draft. I wished they would have picked Oladipo and traded away Waiters.

[TyroberParticipant]

 Thinking about the team they could have had makes me sick to my stomach. I thought Val should have been the 4th pick instead of Thompson, but Thompson has actually been a better player than I thought. Waiters over Lillard, Barnes, and Drummond was just a disaster. Lillard probably would have worked out at the 2 and there were questions marks about Drummond, but there was no excuses for not taking Barnes with the 4th pick. And Bennett has just been atrocious. I actually had him sliding all the way to 8th in my mock. I’m really not mad at them for the Bennett pick because he DOES have potential and since this draft class was so weak they had to pick someone. I wasn’t sold on Noel, but Oladipo looked like a complete stud before the draft. I wished they would have picked Oladipo and traded away Waiters.

[phila9012Participant]

 Had they taken barnes, they would have had irving, oledipo, barnes, thompson for their lineup. That would at least give them hope for the future but instead they took waiters and bennett. They would have space to go sign a max free agent, while also having young pieces to trade or to develop. Throw Carmelo or another top free agent on that team and they would be contending next year for a top 4 seed but instead they are a mess.

[phila9012Participant]

 Had they taken barnes, they would have had irving, oledipo, barnes, thompson for their lineup. That would at least give them hope for the future but instead they took waiters and bennett. They would have space to go sign a max free agent, while also having young pieces to trade or to develop. Throw Carmelo or another top free agent on that team and they would be contending next year for a top 4 seed but instead they are a mess.

[FearTheStacheParticipant]

 Although I do think the 2011 draft was their best possible outcome, from then on the Cavs have noticably drafted for needs, not the best player available. Dion Waiters was not nearly best pick there, they just wanted a shooting guard. They could have picked Harrison Barnes or even Andre Drummond, who was a reasonable pick at that spot. Then, this year, they drafted Bennett because they believed in him as a small forward, again fulfilling a need. They should have picked either Mclemore or Oladipo, arguably the 2 best players available, who would have made sense at the pick, as opposed to someone like MCW, who, without hindsight, would never have been drafted there. When one drafts for needs instead of BPA, you end up with what the Cavs have now, a disspointing season filled with high lottery picks and free agents with no wins to show for it. Can you imagine a team with Kyrie, Oladipo, Thompson, and Drummond? that is a scary playoff team come 5 years.

[FearTheStacheParticipant]

 Although I do think the 2011 draft was their best possible outcome, from then on the Cavs have noticably drafted for needs, not the best player available. Dion Waiters was not nearly best pick there, they just wanted a shooting guard. They could have picked Harrison Barnes or even Andre Drummond, who was a reasonable pick at that spot. Then, this year, they drafted Bennett because they believed in him as a small forward, again fulfilling a need. They should have picked either Mclemore or Oladipo, arguably the 2 best players available, who would have made sense at the pick, as opposed to someone like MCW, who, without hindsight, would never have been drafted there. When one drafts for needs instead of BPA, you end up with what the Cavs have now, a disspointing season filled with high lottery picks and free agents with no wins to show for it. Can you imagine a team with Kyrie, Oladipo, Thompson, and Drummond? that is a scary playoff team come 5 years.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

They haven’t exactly drafted for needs.  They’ve been wanted to go for the big play so badly, that they swing and miss every time.

Since they drafted Irving, their needs were the 2-5 so they had needs everywhere, meaning they had more options.

In 2011, Jonas would have filled a need at the 5.

In 2012, Harrison Barnes filled a need at the 3.

In 2013, they could have gone with Oladipo/McLemore at the 2, which would have also filled a need.

And in 2014, they could have gone with Julius Randle or Noah Vonleh, which would have filled the final need at the 4.

Hindsight is 20/20, but even on draft night, everyone knew those choices were ridiculous.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

They haven’t exactly drafted for needs.  They’ve been wanted to go for the big play so badly, that they swing and miss every time.

Since they drafted Irving, their needs were the 2-5 so they had needs everywhere, meaning they had more options.

In 2011, Jonas would have filled a need at the 5.

In 2012, Harrison Barnes filled a need at the 3.

In 2013, they could have gone with Oladipo/McLemore at the 2, which would have also filled a need.

And in 2014, they could have gone with Julius Randle or Noah Vonleh, which would have filled the final need at the 4.

Hindsight is 20/20, but even on draft night, everyone knew those choices were ridiculous.

[CameronCrazy11Participant]

The biggest head scratcher to me has always been passing on Harrison Barnes to take Dion Waiters in 2012. Barnes and Irving are good friends and would’ve complemented each other very well with how they play. Plus Barnes seems like much more of a team player than Waiters does too based on their short careers. The 2013 draft obviously was not the strongest by any means, but I thought Victor Oladipo was the best player in the draft and would’ve warranted the number one pick. It’ll be interesting to see where Cleveland ends up in the 2014 draft. They might finally be able to draft for need and still get the best player available (or one close to it) since this draft is so deep.

[CameronCrazy11Participant]

The biggest head scratcher to me has always been passing on Harrison Barnes to take Dion Waiters in 2012. Barnes and Irving are good friends and would’ve complemented each other very well with how they play. Plus Barnes seems like much more of a team player than Waiters does too based on their short careers. The 2013 draft obviously was not the strongest by any means, but I thought Victor Oladipo was the best player in the draft and would’ve warranted the number one pick. It’ll be interesting to see where Cleveland ends up in the 2014 draft. They might finally be able to draft for need and still get the best player available (or one close to it) since this draft is so deep.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

If they pick 4 or 5 in this draft who do you take?  What if Parker, Embiid, and Wiggins are gone?  Do you go with another power forward in Julius Randle?  Do you take Marcus Smart?

This team would be a great fit for Wiggins or Parker, or an even better fit for Embiid.  Other than that though, I wonder how they would draft.

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

If they pick 4 or 5 in this draft who do you take?  What if Parker, Embiid, and Wiggins are gone?  Do you go with another power forward in Julius Randle?  Do you take Marcus Smart?

This team would be a great fit for Wiggins or Parker, or an even better fit for Embiid.  Other than that though, I wonder how they would draft.

 

[jjonzParticipant]

They should look for more veteran help. A.Afalo would be ideal @ the 2. Deng/Danny Granger @ the 3. Then they could regulate the current starters to bench and hope for production. If they get one of these guys they could still make the playoffs in the putrid East. Beyond the players, Mike Brown is not a good offensive coach. His offensive approach is "Get LeKoie"(That’s Lebron, Kobe and Kyrie mixed together) the ball and get the hell out of the way.

[jjonzParticipant]

They should look for more veteran help. A.Afalo would be ideal @ the 2. Deng/Danny Granger @ the 3. Then they could regulate the current starters to bench and hope for production. If they get one of these guys they could still make the playoffs in the putrid East. Beyond the players, Mike Brown is not a good offensive coach. His offensive approach is "Get LeKoie"(That’s Lebron, Kobe and Kyrie mixed together) the ball and get the hell out of the way.

[HitsterParticipant]

Kyrie Irvimg was a no brainer pick, Thompson was a reach and you could argue now that Valanciunas is the better prospect but with issues about Valanciunas coming over in 2011 then I’m prepared to accept Thompson as a decent pick.

In 2012 Waiters was again a reach but has been a useful player and perhaps developed as well as can have been expected but to pass on Drummond and Harrison Barnes in particular was a big no no for me. Barnes would have seemlessly filled the SF role and in Drummond you’d have had another legit double double guy alongside Thompson.

Lillard has turned out to be currently one of the best couple of players from that draft and if he could have played alongside Irving then he should have been considered.

In 2013 they were trying to find a fit at SF which they could have filled the previous year with Barnes and were put off Oladipon and perhaps McLemore as they already had Waiters in situ so went for Bennett almost as a compromise pick.

What they will do this year I don’t know as they still need to fill the SF role unless they are all in on Bennett to play there and have a frontcourt gap if we assume they deal Bynum and Varejao will be going into a team option year and is into his 30’s now.

 

[Anton123Participant]

 Drummond was a huge risk though, I mean everybody agreed on that – 7 other teams passed on him. And also in Cleveland’s defense Harrison Barnes hasn’t yet proven to be much better than Waiters, I, for one believe Waiters still can be the better player of the two (an unpopular opinion, I know).

At the end of the day – Cleveland hasn’t done a great job drafting, but they haven’t drafted a single bust in the past 3 years (jury still out on Bennett). I mean everyone is talking about how bad the Cavs are drafting, but the Kings drafted Fredette and Thomas Robinson and could have had Lillard and Klay Thompson instead. The Cavs ain’t doing a great job, but they sure ain’t the only ones.

P.S. I know the Kings didn’t "draft" Fredette, but they pretty much did, right?

[NeggedFolyfe]

agreed.  barnes and andre has huge ?? coming out that year no one wanted to draft a high upside bus.

[NeggedFolyfe]

agreed.  barnes and andre has huge ?? coming out that year no one wanted to draft a high upside bus.

[Anton123Participant]

 Drummond was a huge risk though, I mean everybody agreed on that – 7 other teams passed on him. And also in Cleveland’s defense Harrison Barnes hasn’t yet proven to be much better than Waiters, I, for one believe Waiters still can be the better player of the two (an unpopular opinion, I know).

At the end of the day – Cleveland hasn’t done a great job drafting, but they haven’t drafted a single bust in the past 3 years (jury still out on Bennett). I mean everyone is talking about how bad the Cavs are drafting, but the Kings drafted Fredette and Thomas Robinson and could have had Lillard and Klay Thompson instead. The Cavs ain’t doing a great job, but they sure ain’t the only ones.

P.S. I know the Kings didn’t "draft" Fredette, but they pretty much did, right?

[HitsterParticipant]

Kyrie Irvimg was a no brainer pick, Thompson was a reach and you could argue now that Valanciunas is the better prospect but with issues about Valanciunas coming over in 2011 then I’m prepared to accept Thompson as a decent pick.

In 2012 Waiters was again a reach but has been a useful player and perhaps developed as well as can have been expected but to pass on Drummond and Harrison Barnes in particular was a big no no for me. Barnes would have seemlessly filled the SF role and in Drummond you’d have had another legit double double guy alongside Thompson.

Lillard has turned out to be currently one of the best couple of players from that draft and if he could have played alongside Irving then he should have been considered.

In 2013 they were trying to find a fit at SF which they could have filled the previous year with Barnes and were put off Oladipon and perhaps McLemore as they already had Waiters in situ so went for Bennett almost as a compromise pick.

What they will do this year I don’t know as they still need to fill the SF role unless they are all in on Bennett to play there and have a frontcourt gap if we assume they deal Bynum and Varejao will be going into a team option year and is into his 30’s now.

 

[hbomb3300Participant]

Gilbert is in such a rush to make the playoffs…  all that does it limit the long term potential of the team.  I don’t think the playoffs are worth shooting for if your team doesn’t have enough talent to compete for a championship.  Trading for some veterans will only make this team a 6 or 7 seed at best…  is that really worth missing out on a quality, young player in this draft?

[hbomb3300Participant]

Gilbert is in such a rush to make the playoffs…  all that does it limit the long term potential of the team.  I don’t think the playoffs are worth shooting for if your team doesn’t have enough talent to compete for a championship.  Trading for some veterans will only make this team a 6 or 7 seed at best…  is that really worth missing out on a quality, young player in this draft?

[Prime TimeParticipant]

I think a big miss that could’ve helped this seasons was drafting Sergey Karasev over Tony Snell. I feel like Snell will develop into a solid 3-and-D role player, and he probably would be starting for the Cavs at SF this season.

 

[Prime TimeParticipant]

I think a big miss that could’ve helped this seasons was drafting Sergey Karasev over Tony Snell. I feel like Snell will develop into a solid 3-and-D role player, and he probably would be starting for the Cavs at SF this season.

 

[LA12Participant]

"And with the first pick in the 2014 NBA Draft the Cleveland Cavaliers select, Doug McDermott out of Creighton University"

Ok that’s stretching it a little, but you get the idea. I feel like the Cavaliers try to be too bold with their picks, and it’s hurt the team’s future.

With a lot of their picks, guys behind them made more sense.

Tristan Thompson- Although at the time it seemed more shocking, it has now played out to be a pretty nice pick. You can argue that Jonas V or Klay Thompson would be a better pick here, but both guys were projected to go later in the draft and not necessarily top five. Guys that were projected to go in this spot like Knight or Vesely haven’t shown enough to warrant any argument against Thompson. It’s the guys who weren’t projected to go this at the spot like the aforementioned Valanciunas or Thompson, or even Kawhi Leonard, who in hindsight seem like better picks. In this case, I think the Cavs did well.

Dion Waiters- Don’t get me started on this one. Harrison Barnes, Andre Drummond, Damian Lillard all made more sense than Waiters.

Bennet- Here’s the elephant in the room. Oladipo, Ben McLemore, maybe even Cody Zeller. Heck, I would’ve taken Noel myself and sat him out a year. I knew this pick would not play out how they wanted it to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hector_Reyes_8Participant]

Kawhi wasn’t expected to have as good a shot as he does now. The Spurs made Kawhi who he is. Cleveland wouldn’t have developed him as well as San Antonio has.

[LA12Participant]

 It still takes a guy who’s willing to put in work. At worst he would be a good fill in at the three spot where they’ve been struggling at ever since James left for South Beach. He’d provide great rebounding and defense at the position, and I’m sure he would be atleast a decent shooter since I believe more in a player’s willingness to put in work.

Kawhi’s success can’t be all atributted to the organization, the guy’s put in the work necessary to. San Antonio’s just given him the opportunity to know his role and tell him what they need out of him. Popovich is great at getting what he needs out of players.

 

[LA12Participant]

 It still takes a guy who’s willing to put in work. At worst he would be a good fill in at the three spot where they’ve been struggling at ever since James left for South Beach. He’d provide great rebounding and defense at the position, and I’m sure he would be atleast a decent shooter since I believe more in a player’s willingness to put in work.

Kawhi’s success can’t be all atributted to the organization, the guy’s put in the work necessary to. San Antonio’s just given him the opportunity to know his role and tell him what they need out of him. Popovich is great at getting what he needs out of players.

 

[Hector_Reyes_8Participant]

Kawhi wasn’t expected to have as good a shot as he does now. The Spurs made Kawhi who he is. Cleveland wouldn’t have developed him as well as San Antonio has.

[LA12Participant]

"And with the first pick in the 2014 NBA Draft the Cleveland Cavaliers select, Doug McDermott out of Creighton University"

Ok that’s stretching it a little, but you get the idea. I feel like the Cavaliers try to be too bold with their picks, and it’s hurt the team’s future.

With a lot of their picks, guys behind them made more sense.

Tristan Thompson- Although at the time it seemed more shocking, it has now played out to be a pretty nice pick. You can argue that Jonas V or Klay Thompson would be a better pick here, but both guys were projected to go later in the draft and not necessarily top five. Guys that were projected to go in this spot like Knight or Vesely haven’t shown enough to warrant any argument against Thompson. It’s the guys who weren’t projected to go this at the spot like the aforementioned Valanciunas or Thompson, or even Kawhi Leonard, who in hindsight seem like better picks. In this case, I think the Cavs did well.

Dion Waiters- Don’t get me started on this one. Harrison Barnes, Andre Drummond, Damian Lillard all made more sense than Waiters.

Bennet- Here’s the elephant in the room. Oladipo, Ben McLemore, maybe even Cody Zeller. Heck, I would’ve taken Noel myself and sat him out a year. I knew this pick would not play out how they wanted it to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JCliff24Participant]

Everyone is so quick to write off the picks.
Harrison over Dion –
Have people watched Dion play? Have people watched the Cavaliers play without Dion? He makes them much better. He has improved his shot selection. He’s a 38% 3pt shooter and has seemed to embraced his role off the bench. Dion 14.8 ppg in 29.8mpg with a score first PG. Barnes, 11.7ppg in 31.7mpg. Both have nearly the exact same shooting percentages in all 3 categories.

Jonas over Tristan.
Tristan- 11.9 / 9.8
Jonas-  10.6 / 8.4

I know you can take the box scores with a grain of salt but watching the improvements Dion has made, Tristan has made, I truly feel sorry for Chris Grant. The talent is there, but like the Nets, the Knicks etc. It just isn’t coming together.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

In the case of Barnes and Waiters, you can’t compared their points per game / minutes and say one is better than the other.

Especially when Barnes is the 4th or 5th option offensively when he’s on the floor behind Curry, Thompson, Lee and Iguodala.  

Of course Dion Waiters is going to average more points, he’s the 2nd option on that team.

What you failed to mention, though, is the fact that Barnes is a superior defender, probably the most versatile defender in his age group.  He’s guarded guys from the 1-4 and does a good job at doing so.  

Also, the Cavaliers are 2-4 without Waiters and 8-17 with him, that’s nearly the same winning % so he’s not making them significantly better.

Now that we got their defense and offense out of the way, let’s go to locker room issues.  Dion Waiters has been nothing but a distraction.  Refusing to play the 6th man role for a while, fighting with Tristan Thompson, fighting with Kyrie Irving and seemingly wanting out of Cleveland.

On the other hand, Harrison Barnes has embraced his 6th man role even though he should have been a starter after putting together a terrific playoff run last season.  He’s clearly the leader of the 2nd unit and is not afraid of defending the best perimeter player on the other team.

When you add all of that, intangibles, locker room presence, defensive skill, and offensive skill, I’m going to take Harrison Barnes over Dion Waiters; whether it was 2 years ago, right now, or 5 years from now.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

Waiters isnt the distraction that you think he is, Ive been following Dion since his star prep days and while he is kinda a diva hes also an extremely hard.worker and was known as a great teammate before arriving in Cleveland.. Like the Cavs didnt even interview or workout Waiters so they clearly heard  enough good things about him to draft him 4th without an interview.

And u mentioned how the Cavs did without Waiters but you didnt mention how well both the team and Waiters played significantly better when Kyrie got hurt last year.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

Waiters isnt the distraction that you think he is, Ive been following Dion since his star prep days and while he is kinda a diva hes also an extremely hard.worker and was known as a great teammate before arriving in Cleveland.. Like the Cavs didnt even interview or workout Waiters so they clearly heard  enough good things about him to draft him 4th without an interview.

And u mentioned how the Cavs did without Waiters but you didnt mention how well both the team and Waiters played significantly better when Kyrie got hurt last year.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

In the case of Barnes and Waiters, you can’t compared their points per game / minutes and say one is better than the other.

Especially when Barnes is the 4th or 5th option offensively when he’s on the floor behind Curry, Thompson, Lee and Iguodala.  

Of course Dion Waiters is going to average more points, he’s the 2nd option on that team.

What you failed to mention, though, is the fact that Barnes is a superior defender, probably the most versatile defender in his age group.  He’s guarded guys from the 1-4 and does a good job at doing so.  

Also, the Cavaliers are 2-4 without Waiters and 8-17 with him, that’s nearly the same winning % so he’s not making them significantly better.

Now that we got their defense and offense out of the way, let’s go to locker room issues.  Dion Waiters has been nothing but a distraction.  Refusing to play the 6th man role for a while, fighting with Tristan Thompson, fighting with Kyrie Irving and seemingly wanting out of Cleveland.

On the other hand, Harrison Barnes has embraced his 6th man role even though he should have been a starter after putting together a terrific playoff run last season.  He’s clearly the leader of the 2nd unit and is not afraid of defending the best perimeter player on the other team.

When you add all of that, intangibles, locker room presence, defensive skill, and offensive skill, I’m going to take Harrison Barnes over Dion Waiters; whether it was 2 years ago, right now, or 5 years from now.

[JCliff24Participant]

Everyone is so quick to write off the picks.
Harrison over Dion –
Have people watched Dion play? Have people watched the Cavaliers play without Dion? He makes them much better. He has improved his shot selection. He’s a 38% 3pt shooter and has seemed to embraced his role off the bench. Dion 14.8 ppg in 29.8mpg with a score first PG. Barnes, 11.7ppg in 31.7mpg. Both have nearly the exact same shooting percentages in all 3 categories.

Jonas over Tristan.
Tristan- 11.9 / 9.8
Jonas-  10.6 / 8.4

I know you can take the box scores with a grain of salt but watching the improvements Dion has made, Tristan has made, I truly feel sorry for Chris Grant. The talent is there, but like the Nets, the Knicks etc. It just isn’t coming together.

[jmarg25Participant]

 I just never really liked Dion Waiters that much coming out of college that much. He had explosive stretches, but he didn’t strike me as an NBA star. I saw him as a late first rounder who could provide a big spark off the bench; not a fourth overall pick in a decent 2012 draft class.

[jmarg25Participant]

 I just never really liked Dion Waiters that much coming out of college that much. He had explosive stretches, but he didn’t strike me as an NBA star. I saw him as a late first rounder who could provide a big spark off the bench; not a fourth overall pick in a decent 2012 draft class.

[vulture711Participant]

 If they would have picked the guys they "should have" in the earlier year – they wouldn’t have stunk as bad to be selecting in the spot they did the following year.  People can sugar coat Bennett all they want – right now he sucks….period.  I didn’t remember him being Top 5 in any mocks let alone #1.  Bottom line is Gilbert thinks he is outsmarting everyone when reality is he is outsmarting himself and cheating the fans out of a good team.  UNLV hasn’t been any good since the Larry Johnson days.  Bennett put up decent numbers against crappy teams.  Talk about a reach.  A team with a bunch of high picks that can’t go anywhere – sounds like the Clippers of old.

[vulture711Participant]

 If they would have picked the guys they "should have" in the earlier year – they wouldn’t have stunk as bad to be selecting in the spot they did the following year.  People can sugar coat Bennett all they want – right now he sucks….period.  I didn’t remember him being Top 5 in any mocks let alone #1.  Bottom line is Gilbert thinks he is outsmarting everyone when reality is he is outsmarting himself and cheating the fans out of a good team.  UNLV hasn’t been any good since the Larry Johnson days.  Bennett put up decent numbers against crappy teams.  Talk about a reach.  A team with a bunch of high picks that can’t go anywhere – sounds like the Clippers of old.

[ball4life23Participant]

If only the lottery came out slightly different and they got the No. 3 pick and Beal instead of Waiters.

[surveParticipant]

 not getting Beal was no excuse to reach with Waiters, which IMO is what they did.  Waiters a good player but he wouldve had more value as a late lottery to mid-round pick.

[surveParticipant]

 not getting Beal was no excuse to reach with Waiters, which IMO is what they did.  Waiters a good player but he wouldve had more value as a late lottery to mid-round pick.

[ball4life23Participant]

If only the lottery came out slightly different and they got the No. 3 pick and Beal instead of Waiters.

[HitsterParticipant]

Kawhi Leonard was considered a likely top 8 pick in the 2011 draft as I can remember him being in the draft board mix on here for Washington to take at 6 when they picked Vesley. A lot of us were surprised when he slipped so I’ve always assumed that the Spurs saw him falling and if the Pacers were interested in George Hill then two of the best front offices did a mutally beneficial deal.

The Spurs rarely let the BPA in the draft slide past them for example when they stashed Splitter who was still on board at 28 in 2007 when again he was considered a likely lottery pick but for buyout issues.

[HitsterParticipant]

Kawhi Leonard was considered a likely top 8 pick in the 2011 draft as I can remember him being in the draft board mix on here for Washington to take at 6 when they picked Vesley. A lot of us were surprised when he slipped so I’ve always assumed that the Spurs saw him falling and if the Pacers were interested in George Hill then two of the best front offices did a mutally beneficial deal.

The Spurs rarely let the BPA in the draft slide past them for example when they stashed Splitter who was still on board at 28 in 2007 when again he was considered a likely lottery pick but for buyout issues.

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

 Great topic Wolf…

I agree with EVERYTHING you said. But i think you are missing one underrated fact. The fact is, the good teams develop their young players. And the Cavs really havent done that. Whats the plan? Im very confused. Irving is constantly improving but i think we can all agree, its not because of coaching. Thompson has gotten better, but is he really taking that next step? Waiters is what he is, and the Cavs def shouldve taken Barnes or Drummond (and im a die hard Cuse fan). I think Waiters on Golden State would be a better fit anyways. And with Bennett, i think its WAY too soon to judge him. Look at this years rookies…My main question is do they expect Bennett and Thompson to play together? Im not sure how that would be. They both lack basketball IQ and are both very raw. 

Im just confused at the direction and development of this team. Nothing is meshing, there is no chemstry, they are exactly where they started when they got Irving. Theyve needed a small forward for years now, and i dont think Bennett is the answer there (hes a 4) . 

The good thing for Cleveland fans is they have a lot of nice young trade pieces, and a lot of cap room this summer. 

 

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

 Great topic Wolf…

I agree with EVERYTHING you said. But i think you are missing one underrated fact. The fact is, the good teams develop their young players. And the Cavs really havent done that. Whats the plan? Im very confused. Irving is constantly improving but i think we can all agree, its not because of coaching. Thompson has gotten better, but is he really taking that next step? Waiters is what he is, and the Cavs def shouldve taken Barnes or Drummond (and im a die hard Cuse fan). I think Waiters on Golden State would be a better fit anyways. And with Bennett, i think its WAY too soon to judge him. Look at this years rookies…My main question is do they expect Bennett and Thompson to play together? Im not sure how that would be. They both lack basketball IQ and are both very raw. 

Im just confused at the direction and development of this team. Nothing is meshing, there is no chemstry, they are exactly where they started when they got Irving. Theyve needed a small forward for years now, and i dont think Bennett is the answer there (hes a 4) . 

The good thing for Cleveland fans is they have a lot of nice young trade pieces, and a lot of cap room this summer. 

 

[torontoraptors10Participant]

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again.. Anthony Bennett is one of the most overrated prospects coming out of college and I would STILL take Andrew Nicholson over Anthony Bennett.

[torontoraptors10Participant]

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again.. Anthony Bennett is one of the most overrated prospects coming out of college and I would STILL take Andrew Nicholson over Anthony Bennett.

[ItsRainingNegsParticipant]

My favorite what if Cavs team:

PG: Kyrie Irving

SG: Victor Oladipo

SF: Kawhi Leonard

PF: ?

C: Andre Drummond

[ProudGrandpaParticipant]

 Well, if they had made smarter picks, they wouldn’t be in a position to get guys like Drummond or Oladipo

[ProudGrandpaParticipant]

 Well, if they had made smarter picks, they wouldn’t be in a position to get guys like Drummond or Oladipo

[ItsRainingNegsParticipant]

My favorite what if Cavs team:

PG: Kyrie Irving

SG: Victor Oladipo

SF: Kawhi Leonard

PF: ?

C: Andre Drummond

[mbunner23Participant]

 That’s hard to look at. Wow, what could have been…

[mbunner23Participant]

 That’s hard to look at. Wow, what could have been…

[wrectorParticipant]

 There was a report that the Cavs tried to trade with Sac for the 7th pick in 2011, targeting Klay Thompson. I wish our outcome would’ve looked more like this:

Kyrie Irving (2011)

Victor Oladipo/Ben McLemore (2013)

Klay Thompson (2011) [If Cavs were able to complete trade]

Tristan Thompson (2011)

Andre Drummond (2012)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wrectorParticipant]

 There was a report that the Cavs tried to trade with Sac for the 7th pick in 2011, targeting Klay Thompson. I wish our outcome would’ve looked more like this:

Kyrie Irving (2011)

Victor Oladipo/Ben McLemore (2013)

Klay Thompson (2011) [If Cavs were able to complete trade]

Tristan Thompson (2011)

Andre Drummond (2012)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scott42444Participant]

…is that you end up wasting low cost young talent.  I seriously think that small market teams like Cleveland cannot play games when they have a young stud superstar in the fold and then gamble with another #1 pick and other Top 10’s.  How long will Kyrie stay in Cleveland if they consistently draft lottery picks that don’t look to be starters on a championship level team?  I don’t know.  Maybe he loves the organization and has no plans to leave and really wants to make the team his own and become a Cleveland legend.  But, if Lebron felt that there was no chance of that happening how does Kyrie feel?  Seriously, it can be argued all day and night but the fact that Dion Waiters is a "scorer off the bench" for a lottery team means it was a bad pick.  Harrison Barnes would start at SF and would develop a good core with Kyrie and Thompson.  Bennett was a terrible pick.  I am sorry, but there was just no excuse for taking a guy who is VERY raw with the #1 when you have playoff aspirations.  Especially taking a guy with a lower basketball IQ and then trying to just thrust him into a new position in the NBA.  It’s just a terrible idea.  I think Cleveland will get desperate and try to make a push to get into the playoffs in a VERY weak Eastern Conference to get their young core some playoff experience before the culture of that team becomes development over winning.  Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20 but the Harrison Barnes pick was just a smart idea and should have happened.  Bennett is also inexcuseable and makes the front office look like they don’t have a clue as to how to put together a winner.  2 #1’s and a couple others in the Top 10 should be enough to have 2 All-Star caliber players and I just don’t see that being the case.  Even if Bennett develops, how many years left on his contract before he wants to go join Wiggins on the Raptors (or something to that effect)?  He looks to be years away from being a contributor and his rookie contract is only for 4 years. 

[Scott42444Participant]

…is that you end up wasting low cost young talent.  I seriously think that small market teams like Cleveland cannot play games when they have a young stud superstar in the fold and then gamble with another #1 pick and other Top 10’s.  How long will Kyrie stay in Cleveland if they consistently draft lottery picks that don’t look to be starters on a championship level team?  I don’t know.  Maybe he loves the organization and has no plans to leave and really wants to make the team his own and become a Cleveland legend.  But, if Lebron felt that there was no chance of that happening how does Kyrie feel?  Seriously, it can be argued all day and night but the fact that Dion Waiters is a "scorer off the bench" for a lottery team means it was a bad pick.  Harrison Barnes would start at SF and would develop a good core with Kyrie and Thompson.  Bennett was a terrible pick.  I am sorry, but there was just no excuse for taking a guy who is VERY raw with the #1 when you have playoff aspirations.  Especially taking a guy with a lower basketball IQ and then trying to just thrust him into a new position in the NBA.  It’s just a terrible idea.  I think Cleveland will get desperate and try to make a push to get into the playoffs in a VERY weak Eastern Conference to get their young core some playoff experience before the culture of that team becomes development over winning.  Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20 but the Harrison Barnes pick was just a smart idea and should have happened.  Bennett is also inexcuseable and makes the front office look like they don’t have a clue as to how to put together a winner.  2 #1’s and a couple others in the Top 10 should be enough to have 2 All-Star caliber players and I just don’t see that being the case.  Even if Bennett develops, how many years left on his contract before he wants to go join Wiggins on the Raptors (or something to that effect)?  He looks to be years away from being a contributor and his rookie contract is only for 4 years. 

[Andrew1984Participant]

 Piling on Anthony Bennett is the popular thing to do right now because fans and media tend to be very fickle and short-sighted. I know his epic failure this year has been borderline historic, but take into consideration the fact that the Cavaliers brass obviously did not base their priorities on "we need someone that can come in right away and impact this team." 

Management didn’t expect Kyrie’s percentages to drop and didn’t expect tension between Waiters, Irving, and Thompson. They thought Bynum was a homerun, and they didn’t expect Jarrett Jack’s percentages to drop. They just plainly thought they were going to be better. Grant expected them to be more like 20-16  or 19-17 at this point in the season, certainly not 11-23. They thought Mike Brown would have taught this team how to win close games and he simply hasn’t. In short: they knew they were drafting a project in Anthony Bennett.

Also consider that big guys tend to take longer to develop than guards, Bennett’s shoulder injury stagnated his offseason progress, (although I think it’s his own fault that his conditioning was so bad; shoulder injuries don’t prevent one from getting on a treadmill), and he only went to college for a year and he’s only 19! 

Andre Drummond only averaged 8 points and 8 boards midway through last year. Look up rookie year stats for most NBA big men and with a few exceptions, you generally won’t be impressed. They just need time. You may say, "Oh, but he’s listed at SF, so he’s not a big man!" The kid is 6-8, 260. He is not a perimeter player. 

I’m not excusing how attrociously Bennett has played, but playing under 10 minutes a game is not really giving him a chance to develop. Bennett’s confidence is destroyed (which, admittedly, is his own fault), but my point is that in three years, when he’s averaging 16-18 points and 10 rebounds a night as a 22-year-old, there are going to be a lot of quiet observers who hailed him as the latest Olowokandi. I think he’ll be more like a Laphonso Ellis, which is not what you want at No. 1 overall, but it certainly isn’t as bad as the Kwame Brown pick, which everyone seems to be suggesting.

 

 

 

 

 

[Andrew1984Participant]

 Piling on Anthony Bennett is the popular thing to do right now because fans and media tend to be very fickle and short-sighted. I know his epic failure this year has been borderline historic, but take into consideration the fact that the Cavaliers brass obviously did not base their priorities on "we need someone that can come in right away and impact this team." 

Management didn’t expect Kyrie’s percentages to drop and didn’t expect tension between Waiters, Irving, and Thompson. They thought Bynum was a homerun, and they didn’t expect Jarrett Jack’s percentages to drop. They just plainly thought they were going to be better. Grant expected them to be more like 20-16  or 19-17 at this point in the season, certainly not 11-23. They thought Mike Brown would have taught this team how to win close games and he simply hasn’t. In short: they knew they were drafting a project in Anthony Bennett.

Also consider that big guys tend to take longer to develop than guards, Bennett’s shoulder injury stagnated his offseason progress, (although I think it’s his own fault that his conditioning was so bad; shoulder injuries don’t prevent one from getting on a treadmill), and he only went to college for a year and he’s only 19! 

Andre Drummond only averaged 8 points and 8 boards midway through last year. Look up rookie year stats for most NBA big men and with a few exceptions, you generally won’t be impressed. They just need time. You may say, "Oh, but he’s listed at SF, so he’s not a big man!" The kid is 6-8, 260. He is not a perimeter player. 

I’m not excusing how attrociously Bennett has played, but playing under 10 minutes a game is not really giving him a chance to develop. Bennett’s confidence is destroyed (which, admittedly, is his own fault), but my point is that in three years, when he’s averaging 16-18 points and 10 rebounds a night as a 22-year-old, there are going to be a lot of quiet observers who hailed him as the latest Olowokandi. I think he’ll be more like a Laphonso Ellis, which is not what you want at No. 1 overall, but it certainly isn’t as bad as the Kwame Brown pick, which everyone seems to be suggesting.

 

 

 

 

 

[JoeWolf1]

 I am a fan of not jumping to conclusions, especially when it comes to young players, but to assume Bennett will be a 16-18 ppg scorer in three years seems like just as big of a jump as to assume he’ll be a Kwame Brown style bust.

Bennett’s shot selection, and general experience level will improve, but your metabolism at age 19 is about peaked out, and if Anthony has issues staying in shape, and wanting to put in the work to do so now, I think it’s a valid concern going forward…Especially because he is 6’7” in shoes.

I think the fact that he’s in Cleveland’s daily lineup shows the patience and investment they’re putting in for him. A team that wasn’t that invested he’d be racking up DNP- Coaches Decision three out of every five games. The Cavs are losing, and Bennett is getting minutes…even if it’s just about a quarter of PT per game. 

In 28 games he’s yet to hit double figures and is sitting at 28% shooting on the year. Yes, big men take longer to develop, but Andre Drummond averaging a shade under 8 and 8 last year at this time is vastly different. By 1-4-13, Drummond had tallied 5 double doubles, 10 double digit rebounding games, and a 22 point game. 

A rookie top 5 pick and forward who had very pubic struggles last year, Thomas Robinson, was even playing significantly better than Bennett is this season, and he’s in a new situation, playing better, but still playing a pretty minimal role. He’s been recently beat out by Meyers Leonard, despite his jumps in productivity from his 1st to 2nd years. When a guy struggles, they don’t always just go away with experience, and sometimes despite improvement, there’s a guy sitting on the roster who plays the same position, and is improving faster than you.

Bennett is in a tough spot playing behind Tristian Thompson, but also competing with Earl Clark and Tyler Zeller for minutes. It will probably help him though, and I think he’ll probably end the year at around 5 or 6 ppg after Cleveland really ups his minutes in March and April.

I’m not saying Bennett is Kwame, but I argue that he’s sure as hell not LaPhonso Ellis either by his third year. He will get better, and I’m sure Cleveland front office officials will "strongly suggest" he stay in shape this off-season, but if he can be an every night 1st big off the bench who maybe gives you 8 ppg and 5 rpg by his third season,…well, I’d consider that a success, and a good step in his development.

 

[JoeWolf1]

 I am a fan of not jumping to conclusions, especially when it comes to young players, but to assume Bennett will be a 16-18 ppg scorer in three years seems like just as big of a jump as to assume he’ll be a Kwame Brown style bust.

Bennett’s shot selection, and general experience level will improve, but your metabolism at age 19 is about peaked out, and if Anthony has issues staying in shape, and wanting to put in the work to do so now, I think it’s a valid concern going forward…Especially because he is 6’7” in shoes.

I think the fact that he’s in Cleveland’s daily lineup shows the patience and investment they’re putting in for him. A team that wasn’t that invested he’d be racking up DNP- Coaches Decision three out of every five games. The Cavs are losing, and Bennett is getting minutes…even if it’s just about a quarter of PT per game. 

In 28 games he’s yet to hit double figures and is sitting at 28% shooting on the year. Yes, big men take longer to develop, but Andre Drummond averaging a shade under 8 and 8 last year at this time is vastly different. By 1-4-13, Drummond had tallied 5 double doubles, 10 double digit rebounding games, and a 22 point game. 

A rookie top 5 pick and forward who had very pubic struggles last year, Thomas Robinson, was even playing significantly better than Bennett is this season, and he’s in a new situation, playing better, but still playing a pretty minimal role. He’s been recently beat out by Meyers Leonard, despite his jumps in productivity from his 1st to 2nd years. When a guy struggles, they don’t always just go away with experience, and sometimes despite improvement, there’s a guy sitting on the roster who plays the same position, and is improving faster than you.

Bennett is in a tough spot playing behind Tristian Thompson, but also competing with Earl Clark and Tyler Zeller for minutes. It will probably help him though, and I think he’ll probably end the year at around 5 or 6 ppg after Cleveland really ups his minutes in March and April.

I’m not saying Bennett is Kwame, but I argue that he’s sure as hell not LaPhonso Ellis either by his third year. He will get better, and I’m sure Cleveland front office officials will "strongly suggest" he stay in shape this off-season, but if he can be an every night 1st big off the bench who maybe gives you 8 ppg and 5 rpg by his third season,…well, I’d consider that a success, and a good step in his development.

 

[Andrew1984Participant]

 

Let me just compare his trajectory to Tristan Thompson’s for a moment. TT’s rookie year, he took a lot of abuse for going No. 4 overall. He looked useless. Midway through his third year, he’s averaging 11 and 10. 

They both spent a year in college. If you watch Anthony Bennett in college and then watch TT in college, it is painfully obvious how much more actual basketball skill and talent Bennett had than Thompson. TT was, and is, athletic, fierce, competitive, but not exactly a refined skill guy. Bennett was both skilled and athletic in college. 

I just think if TT can be 11 and 10 by year three, Bennett can be 16 and 10 by year three. 

I will concede that my this statement is pretty bold and a "leap," but I don’t think there’s any way that Bennett will be averaging just 8 and 5 in his third year.

 

 

[Andrew1984Participant]

 

Let me just compare his trajectory to Tristan Thompson’s for a moment. TT’s rookie year, he took a lot of abuse for going No. 4 overall. He looked useless. Midway through his third year, he’s averaging 11 and 10. 

They both spent a year in college. If you watch Anthony Bennett in college and then watch TT in college, it is painfully obvious how much more actual basketball skill and talent Bennett had than Thompson. TT was, and is, athletic, fierce, competitive, but not exactly a refined skill guy. Bennett was both skilled and athletic in college. 

I just think if TT can be 11 and 10 by year three, Bennett can be 16 and 10 by year three. 

I will concede that my this statement is pretty bold and a "leap," but I don’t think there’s any way that Bennett will be averaging just 8 and 5 in his third year.

 

 

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