[SpaceghostParticipant]

 I fought and fought the concept that the NBA is water down.. I said that Barkey and Ocsar Roberson TMAC where just retired haters. But its true. The fact that M Chriss and Dejonte Murry are projected to be top 10 picks proves the point. I like both of those players, i just watched  4 full games for the Washington Huskies. THOSE guys are light years away from being anyones professional basketball player. Its not there fault and i have no doubt that they will improve, but the NBA is not a league to wait around for improvement. In the mean time we build them up in predraft camp videos and measurements, all the while they are not ready. Is it time to require 2 /3years in college? Any other ideas how to get the game better? Is it the rules? The fact that you cant play any defense every thing is a damn touch foul..makes the game terrible to watch!!  Should we go back to the more physical days ?

 

Any ideas?

 

 

[KingslayerParticipant]

Dude it’s a weak draft, especially in the lottery/mid 1st round. I’m not high on Chriss or Murray either but they have upside, and some teams may covet that in a weak draft year. You’re using 2 of the most raw freshmen early-entrants this year to make your point, excluding a large number of frosh’s that are as NBA ready as many other 3-4 year college prospects. KAT just had the best rookie season in a long time as a 1 & done. Winslow and Turner played key roles during the playoffs and several others made an impact during the season. It doesn’t hurt the NBA to allow players to leave school early.

About the fouling thing, have you watched these playoffs? The game is so physical every possession down court, and it’s arguable there are 2-3 "fouls" every possession. The refs let so much of that crap go since it’s part of the game. There’s always going to be questionable calls, but you can play tough physical defense without getting called.

 

[KingslayerParticipant]

Dude it’s a weak draft, especially in the lottery/mid 1st round. I’m not high on Chriss or Murray either but they have upside, and some teams may covet that in a weak draft year. You’re using 2 of the most raw freshmen early-entrants this year to make your point, excluding a large number of frosh’s that are as NBA ready as many other 3-4 year college prospects. KAT just had the best rookie season in a long time as a 1 & done. Winslow and Turner played key roles during the playoffs and several others made an impact during the season. It doesn’t hurt the NBA to allow players to leave school early.

About the fouling thing, have you watched these playoffs? The game is so physical every possession down court, and it’s arguable there are 2-3 "fouls" every possession. The refs let so much of that crap go since it’s part of the game. There’s always going to be questionable calls, but you can play tough physical defense without getting called.

 

[steviechillzParticipant]

you’re still watching…but the watered-down concept is a myth. What this chatter is really about is that the NBA is soft and we have way too many young guys coming into the league that don’t get enough seasoning in the fundamentals, defensive concepts, speed of the NBA, etc.

But the NBA, in terms of popularity, is at one of it’s all-time highs. No need to turn it back into a slugfest like the 90’s…Just a lot of oldman hate going on because of the 73 wins, the Eastern Conference being weak(its been on and off for the past 30 years), and no more physical play allowed(even though the WCF, ECF, and Finals have been very physical). It doesn’t turn me away from watching and it doesn’t make the game any less appealing…if anything, because of the complexity in the rules, coaching, etc.; today’s NBA is much more appealing to the eyes than any other era in the past.

[steviechillzParticipant]

you’re still watching…but the watered-down concept is a myth. What this chatter is really about is that the NBA is soft and we have way too many young guys coming into the league that don’t get enough seasoning in the fundamentals, defensive concepts, speed of the NBA, etc.

But the NBA, in terms of popularity, is at one of it’s all-time highs. No need to turn it back into a slugfest like the 90’s…Just a lot of oldman hate going on because of the 73 wins, the Eastern Conference being weak(its been on and off for the past 30 years), and no more physical play allowed(even though the WCF, ECF, and Finals have been very physical). It doesn’t turn me away from watching and it doesn’t make the game any less appealing…if anything, because of the complexity in the rules, coaching, etc.; today’s NBA is much more appealing to the eyes than any other era in the past.

[MopgrassParticipant]

 I think the league could be stronger talent-wise, but I don’t think it’s a huge deal. I think higher quality veterans get pushed out because they need to make room for the higher risk, bigger pay-off rookies. I think that’s the only way you can argue its watered down. Still, even that’s being fixed since the D-League is expanding. I really don’t see the problem. Old players always say what they had was better because it justifies them being the best. Kareem always complains no one knows the hook. Even in comedy the much-beloved Bill Cosby used to complain that comedians cursed and he didn’t, so he’s "better." Everyone tries to justify that they were the best. It’s just old dogs barking. 

[MopgrassParticipant]

 I think the league could be stronger talent-wise, but I don’t think it’s a huge deal. I think higher quality veterans get pushed out because they need to make room for the higher risk, bigger pay-off rookies. I think that’s the only way you can argue its watered down. Still, even that’s being fixed since the D-League is expanding. I really don’t see the problem. Old players always say what they had was better because it justifies them being the best. Kareem always complains no one knows the hook. Even in comedy the much-beloved Bill Cosby used to complain that comedians cursed and he didn’t, so he’s "better." Everyone tries to justify that they were the best. It’s just old dogs barking. 

[Stop_basketball_nonsenseParticipant]

 I’m 25 and I constantly agree with the older players and analysts who call out the diminished talent, & fundametals.

I really don’t see this advanced complexity of the game you or anyone else speak of. Mostly except for the spurs and warriors it’s still mostly one on one, just in a different way. The best perimeter players constantly  use ball screen after balk screen  to initiate  the offense, and whoever is the most creative  usually comes out in top. Even the warriors with steph and klay go one on one alot, it’s just they have the most abundance of guys who can go get theirs so when they beat their MSN and drive and draw in help they can kick it out for open shots.  Yes the game had gotten soft as well.

Also this whole next year’s draft is for real always happens then when then draft projections get real people call it a weak draft and it’s been happening for the past 4-5 years now. I can see how towns stats make people say his rookie year was great which it was good, but back in the day ex. 80s/90s many rookies came in and immediately averaged  20 a game.

I know highs chook and aau has something to do with guys not having good fundamentals, and after hearing about Ferguson going pro and not at tenting Arizona this year, and his high school having problems it shows all the time, so yea in my opinion basically the game has diminished.

 

 

 

[Stop_basketball_nonsenseParticipant]

 I’m 25 and I constantly agree with the older players and analysts who call out the diminished talent, & fundametals.

I really don’t see this advanced complexity of the game you or anyone else speak of. Mostly except for the spurs and warriors it’s still mostly one on one, just in a different way. The best perimeter players constantly  use ball screen after balk screen  to initiate  the offense, and whoever is the most creative  usually comes out in top. Even the warriors with steph and klay go one on one alot, it’s just they have the most abundance of guys who can go get theirs so when they beat their MSN and drive and draw in help they can kick it out for open shots.  Yes the game had gotten soft as well.

Also this whole next year’s draft is for real always happens then when then draft projections get real people call it a weak draft and it’s been happening for the past 4-5 years now. I can see how towns stats make people say his rookie year was great which it was good, but back in the day ex. 80s/90s many rookies came in and immediately averaged  20 a game.

I know highs chook and aau has something to do with guys not having good fundamentals, and after hearing about Ferguson going pro and not at tenting Arizona this year, and his high school having problems it shows all the time, so yea in my opinion basically the game has diminished.

 

 

 

[benny15Participant]

 i dont think theres any way you can argue against a casual sports fan on todays game. it was much better to them back then because it was so much simpler. you dint need to have much basketball awareness to appreciate a supreme talent such as Jordan to go one on one and drop 30 or more every night. nor is it any harder to see how someone can be a good deffender if their man does not score. 

the additional complexity of todays game is more entertaining to basketball enthusiasts because they appreciate rotations and closing out on d as much as they do steals and blocks. they get a thrill out of players making the extra pass or two or more to create a much better scoring opportunity. they find it more intresting that team strategies are much more than matching up who on who and how it can balance out the difference in talent. 

but i get it, the simpler game makes it much easier to watch and understand and theres nothing wrong with wanting that kind of game. almost always, thats what you see in the play ground anyway and people get entertained in seeing the talent be showcased there. 

now does the nba have some issues, most definitely. consistency on calls for one is something i get annoyed with. but i do believe that the NBA has progressed to a better product for basketball fan even though there are a lot who would disagree with that notion and would preffer the simpler game

 

 

[benny15Participant]

 i dont think theres any way you can argue against a casual sports fan on todays game. it was much better to them back then because it was so much simpler. you dint need to have much basketball awareness to appreciate a supreme talent such as Jordan to go one on one and drop 30 or more every night. nor is it any harder to see how someone can be a good deffender if their man does not score. 

the additional complexity of todays game is more entertaining to basketball enthusiasts because they appreciate rotations and closing out on d as much as they do steals and blocks. they get a thrill out of players making the extra pass or two or more to create a much better scoring opportunity. they find it more intresting that team strategies are much more than matching up who on who and how it can balance out the difference in talent. 

but i get it, the simpler game makes it much easier to watch and understand and theres nothing wrong with wanting that kind of game. almost always, thats what you see in the play ground anyway and people get entertained in seeing the talent be showcased there. 

now does the nba have some issues, most definitely. consistency on calls for one is something i get annoyed with. but i do believe that the NBA has progressed to a better product for basketball fan even though there are a lot who would disagree with that notion and would preffer the simpler game

 

 

[SubZeroParticipant]

I don’t really agree with your whole “simple” vs. “complex” thing. You don’t think it’s pretty simple to just watch Steph and Klay jack up 3s? I get that there is way more to it than that most the time, but I wouldn’t say that MJ and other players back then were simple players who only went 1 on 1. Peep almost any superstar and you’d see the same team basketball being played, just different styles (i.e. not looking for 3s every play)

[SubZeroParticipant]

I don’t really agree with your whole “simple” vs. “complex” thing. You don’t think it’s pretty simple to just watch Steph and Klay jack up 3s? I get that there is way more to it than that most the time, but I wouldn’t say that MJ and other players back then were simple players who only went 1 on 1. Peep almost any superstar and you’d see the same team basketball being played, just different styles (i.e. not looking for 3s every play)

[benny15Participant]

well you did say you get it that steph and klay dont just jack up 3s most the time so thats good, i dont have to explain why its not that simple as you asked earlier. as for mj and the stars of the past, theyre not simple at all. they were very very talented players, but their team’s strategy and style of play dint involve as much body and ball movement as it is today because todays brand of basketball wouldnt have been as efficient with the rules of the past. 

if the deffensive team is forced to play man to man, most of your plays would be how to get your scorer the ball in as much of a favorable match-up for your team and see them go to work. but with teams utilizing the zone much better, even if you beat your man, their is a secondary line of deffense or a third, and not just a shot blocker either. 

jordan and them, they were not simple players. in fact, they were some of the best talents the game has ever seen, no buts. and their teams used the most efficient way to score which primarily was different variations of 1 on 1 iso ball.

 

 

[benny15Participant]

well you did say you get it that steph and klay dont just jack up 3s most the time so thats good, i dont have to explain why its not that simple as you asked earlier. as for mj and the stars of the past, theyre not simple at all. they were very very talented players, but their team’s strategy and style of play dint involve as much body and ball movement as it is today because todays brand of basketball wouldnt have been as efficient with the rules of the past. 

if the deffensive team is forced to play man to man, most of your plays would be how to get your scorer the ball in as much of a favorable match-up for your team and see them go to work. but with teams utilizing the zone much better, even if you beat your man, their is a secondary line of deffense or a third, and not just a shot blocker either. 

jordan and them, they were not simple players. in fact, they were some of the best talents the game has ever seen, no buts. and their teams used the most efficient way to score which primarily was different variations of 1 on 1 iso ball.

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Well to be fair from what I see GSW’s half court offense is about getting penetration for either an easy layup or to draw a second defender to then swing the ball and find the open man. On a Green or Bogut/Curry pick and roll teams have to end up doing a light double on Curry which allows Green or Bogut to beat his defender drive down the lane and kick to whoever’s man helped. This series of help defence usually allows GSW to get an open shooter and with the talented shooters on thier roster and goodbfeel for the game ball IQ high quality shots are frequently created.

They also run alot of screens off the ball for Thompson and Curry when they are hit and if you give them even a bit of space to get a shot off you can usually count the basket before the ball even leaves their fingertips.

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Well to be fair from what I see GSW’s half court offense is about getting penetration for either an easy layup or to draw a second defender to then swing the ball and find the open man. On a Green or Bogut/Curry pick and roll teams have to end up doing a light double on Curry which allows Green or Bogut to beat his defender drive down the lane and kick to whoever’s man helped. This series of help defence usually allows GSW to get an open shooter and with the talented shooters on thier roster and goodbfeel for the game ball IQ high quality shots are frequently created.

They also run alot of screens off the ball for Thompson and Curry when they are hit and if you give them even a bit of space to get a shot off you can usually count the basket before the ball even leaves their fingertips.

 

[SubZeroParticipant]

Yeah I get that, I just mean their game is very attractive to casual fans, and is probably the most approachable game to watch I’ve ever seen. I’ve known a lot of people that don’t care at all about basketball that like watching Steph

[SubZeroParticipant]

Yeah I get that, I just mean their game is very attractive to casual fans, and is probably the most approachable game to watch I’ve ever seen. I’ve known a lot of people that don’t care at all about basketball that like watching Steph

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

You’re looking at a very weak draft class here. Look at next year’s one, now that’s what you call loaded, and far from watered down. 

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

You’re looking at a very weak draft class here. Look at next year’s one, now that’s what you call loaded, and far from watered down. 

[HobbyOGParticipant]

 Has nothing to do with talent..but money! The NBA is waterdown because it’s soft. Game 4 is tonight, not one technical has been issued because a player has gotten in antoher player’s face, samething last year, same in the confrence finals. Everybody is friends and make a ton of money and that’s what it’s all about.Back in the day you played for pride and for the love. Players coming out early because they see a ton of money, not just in the NBA but in college. Why stay in college and have the university make millons of me when I can get my own money..I like money like the next person but it’s the root to evil.

[HobbyOGParticipant]

 Has nothing to do with talent..but money! The NBA is waterdown because it’s soft. Game 4 is tonight, not one technical has been issued because a player has gotten in antoher player’s face, samething last year, same in the confrence finals. Everybody is friends and make a ton of money and that’s what it’s all about.Back in the day you played for pride and for the love. Players coming out early because they see a ton of money, not just in the NBA but in college. Why stay in college and have the university make millons of me when I can get my own money..I like money like the next person but it’s the root to evil.

[ChoppyParticipant]

 As I see it, you’re right on one point – the NCAA is a big problem in this. They make millions off these athletes and they cannot cash in on anything, no matter how small, or they get blacklisted. If the players were allowed to get (for example) a percentage of their college jersey sales, that may encourage more to stay in college for longer getting a better bball education (thus strengthening the league). Even if that money was put in trust until they left college that could work too.  

[ChoppyParticipant]

 As I see it, you’re right on one point – the NCAA is a big problem in this. They make millions off these athletes and they cannot cash in on anything, no matter how small, or they get blacklisted. If the players were allowed to get (for example) a percentage of their college jersey sales, that may encourage more to stay in college for longer getting a better bball education (thus strengthening the league). Even if that money was put in trust until they left college that could work too.  

[NickWayne87Participant]

 Just like everyone else who makes these types of threads.  You want players to stay in school for the sake of the COLLEGE game not the NBA.  If they imposed such a rule that gave u let’s face it what you REALLY want players staying in college all 4 years and a 22 year old age limit yet instead all the top prospects signed overseas contracts you wouldn’t like it WOULD YOU?

[NickWayne87Participant]

 Just like everyone else who makes these types of threads.  You want players to stay in school for the sake of the COLLEGE game not the NBA.  If they imposed such a rule that gave u let’s face it what you REALLY want players staying in college all 4 years and a 22 year old age limit yet instead all the top prospects signed overseas contracts you wouldn’t like it WOULD YOU?

[nill650Participant]

 No team in the lottery is expecting to contend for a title in the next few seasons anyway so they normally are interested in younger high ceiling prospects. 

The problem is that Fans as a rule are impatient. Obvious Boston does’nt want a project or longterm upside blah blah blah. But every other team in the top 5 is still rebuilding and desperately needs to draft the player that will help them the most in 4 years not next year.

This is why Hield and Dunn and maybe Bender having played pro overseas are really the only options that make any sense for Boston unless they are picking the upside pick for another team they are in trade talks with that has decided to dump salaries on decent starters or even disgruntled star level players like Cousins.

[nill650Participant]

 No team in the lottery is expecting to contend for a title in the next few seasons anyway so they normally are interested in younger high ceiling prospects. 

The problem is that Fans as a rule are impatient. Obvious Boston does’nt want a project or longterm upside blah blah blah. But every other team in the top 5 is still rebuilding and desperately needs to draft the player that will help them the most in 4 years not next year.

This is why Hield and Dunn and maybe Bender having played pro overseas are really the only options that make any sense for Boston unless they are picking the upside pick for another team they are in trade talks with that has decided to dump salaries on decent starters or even disgruntled star level players like Cousins.

[Author]

Posts