[OhCanada-Participant]

Demar Derozan talks about being “great” and with Vince Carter and Chris Bosh completely letting down Toronto fans, is Demar Derozan’s chance to be the greatest Toronto Raptor “greater” then it seems?

Now lets get this one thing straight, we are not talking about Statistical Averages, or Overall Talent. We are talking about in terms of “leading” the Raptors to success as the “Go to Guy” or “Franchise Player”.

IMO if Derozan can do the following it will make him the greatest Raptor of all time.
-“Lead” Toronto through the Eastern Conference Finals and “lead” Toronto to multiple playoff births
-Resign and play with Toronto for an additional 5 years after his Rookie Contract expires
-Have statistacal averages of at the very least 20PPG 5RPG 3APG 1.5SPG

Would the requirements make him the greatest Raptor? Can he live up to the requirements?
and
What do you think the requirements would include? What do you think his cieling is?

[Jlv2010]

He has potential to be an all-star, just don’t count on him in the slam dunk contest.

[Mr.Knick 32Participant]

Let’s get through year 2 first. He still has alot of things to improve before he’s the best Raptor on the team.

[idunnonymoreParticipant]

i hope

[ilike.panochasParticipant]

No I can’t see him being better or close to Vince Carter. I see his highest ceiling more like Corey Maggette. And if the Raptors gets the 1st pick next year, his chances of being the “greatest Raptor” ever would be even slimmer because of a guy name Harrison Barnes (if they do end up with him)

[bash.n4Participant]

id take perry jones of harrison barnes any day of the week

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

He’ll leave them anyway, just like every Toronto star.

[Demarcus OnealParticipant]

Derozan will never ever be the best Raptor ever he will not ever be better then Chris Bosh or Vince Carter he couldnt even average double figures last year in scoring

[OhCanada-Participant]

Raptors are not going to get the 1st Pick next year…Thats nonsense.

The Toronto Raptors have not gotten as bad as everyone believes. They have had drastic improvements from Derozan, Jack, Weems, Johnson, added a ready to play shot blocking presence Rookie in Davis who should surprise people and a nice gritty role player in Linas Klieza who will get boards, and can light it up.

To replace Bosh’s rebounding will be a problem but this team will have much more of a shotblocking presence, physical presence and overall team-chemistry. Bosh’s scoring should be replaced no problem.

The big problem is how much better the east got. I see the Raptors aqcuiring another late lotto pick 7-14.

[ChrischiParticipant]

He has all-star potential, but the rapotors have to be able to put a good team around him, if not, he’s just going to leave just as Bosh and VC.

And sorry Oh Canada, I like your posts and respect that your a passionate fan, but the Toronto Raptors will probably be the worst team in the east. I mean they don’t even have a legit center and both of their wings (although they’re young and athletic and still have room of improvment) don’t have range. Of course the east got better, but the Raptors got a lot worse, too.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Honestly, don’t be sorry. I’d give my left nut for the raptors to come in dead last next year and have a chance to aqcuire Harrison Barnes or Enes Kanter or whoever emerges as the Top Prospect. I just know that BC has Calderon who is going to be moved for some sort of expiring talent and a Trade Exception which could also be moved. The offseason isnt over and BC should most definitely just give up Calderon for any expiring contract and save the TE but that wont happen.

Mark my words on this on forum, Toronto will not get a pick higher than 5th under any circumstances.

[Toronto16Participant]

He has the chance and the potential.

[JNixonParticipant]

Derozan will be a solid player. He’ll be similar to Richard Jefferson, a 15 ppg scorer who plays solid D and rebounds alright. I don’t see him as an All-Star though.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Iggy the comparisons have to stop…Not every player can be compared to someone and don’t get me wrong you make some very nice reads and your posts are loaded with knowledge…but these comparisons are just horrendus. Really?.. Richard Jefferson?…

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

@OhCanada-

I don’t think saying DeRozan will be similar to RJ is all that bad. You said, “Really?.. Richard Jefferson?…” like he was a bum lol. RJ was a very good player in NJ. He was a great athlete, slasher and improved his range every season.

[JNixonParticipant]

Lol, I was just trying to give an idea of how he plays. I know you’re a Raptors fan, but what makes Demar Derozan better than Richard Jefferson? Especially considering Jefferson has been a 2nd and 3rd option on a Finals team.

[Bryant24Participant]

Deamr Derozan can be a very good palyer but he has to work on his weakness based on his skills right now he can give u 15ppg and he’s only 20 now that bosh gone he can really shine i dont know if he will be the greatest raptor ever but if he reached his potential he will be on of the best to ever suit up for the raptors.

[knicks82Participant]

He has all the potential in the world..he just needs to harness it. Definately has the frame to put on some more muscle mass, and im sure he’ll continue to imrove his jumper. I know I was kinda hopeing the Knicks would take him last year…but oh well.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I think DeRozan has very nice upside. He’s has a lot of work to do, but I hear/read that he’s a hard worker and coachable. I think he’ll be a very good player.

However… IF he’s the go-to player/franchise player for Toronto, then they’ll never be a great team. He’s not that kind of player. I think he’d be best as the team’s 2nd or 3rd best player at max potential.

[ZeroParticipant]

“I don’t care who at the top of the stairs I’m stepping up….”

That’s what Demar said on his facebook, and I really hope he does.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Richard Jefferson is a player who relies on a pass first PG to be successful. He struggles creating his own shot. He is 2 or 3 inches taller than Demar while maintaining the sane wieght. He is a SF not a SG and it’s pretty clear now that Derozan is a hybrid. It is a flat out bad comparison and you guys would not be saying that if you actaully watched Derozan play.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Isn’t creating his own shot and offense off of the dribble one of DeRozan’s weaknesses too though?

[JNixonParticipant]

Yes it is Indianabasketball lol…Yes it is…

I never knew being compared to Richard Jefferson was a death sentence.

[Bison 49Participant]

Keep that nut dude …

The raptors will probably not get the 1st pick in the draft. Things have to go really wrong, and then really right for that to happen. Any of the other top picks besides Barnes would only help him get better. As for your question, could he be better than Vince or Chris. Sure, he could, but that is under the assumption that he works like a dog and improves a lot over the next few years. He has tons to improve on. He is still a year (or so) younger than Vince was when he entered the league.

– Would the requirements make him the greatest Raptor?
– Those requirements alone would not. It is possible that he could be on the team and they go to the finals, but what if he had a lot of help (e.g. Bargniani draining the threes, keeping the centers out of the lane, Johnson getting every missed shot and putting it back, etc.). His greatest opportunity would be to play like an offensive allstar and play strong defence. Carter played ok defence, but remember, he also did not care for about two years before he got traded. He will have to stay for two contracts, as the one after the rookie is restricted. He has to choose to stay here, when he could go anywhere he wants. Finally, as an offensive leader he would probably have to score more points than 20, as he is a wing that (as of now) does not rebound like Wallace or Marion, or pass like Lebron, Wade, Roy. To be a scorer, he needs at least 24/25 ppg.

– Can he live up to the requirements? Yes, but he has to work on all facets of his game and develop his game every year like Kobe and Michael. Basically, he has to want it more than pretty much anyone in the league (aside from Kobe). he has a lot to improve on.

– What do you think the requirements would include? What do you think his cieling is?
– Requirements would be skill based. He needs range to the three, ability to create for others, great defence, and the ability to take over games in the 4th. His ceiling is based on psychological factors and luck (i.e. no freak injuries), and could be like Kobe (skillwise – He will probably never be the killer Kobe is). 26/7/5/2 stls/1 blk at the best.

[llperez]

i’ve watched derozan play throughout college and his nba career, and i think the richard jefferson comparison is very legit and i have used it myself. Neither guy is a great shooter or ball handler. Both guys are terrific athletes, but dont have the best one on one skills to always show off that athleticism. Both do a lot of their damage in the paint for wings. Both get out and run. They play a lot alike. And when you consider the jefferson was an all-0star and getting over 20 points a game, that is by no means a knock on derozan.

[JNixonParticipant]

Alright, just making sure my comparison wasn’t that bad. He’s making it seem like I just threw something out of nowhere.

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

vince carter still remains imo to be the best raptor ever as of rite now

[NashyMingParticipant]

I personally think DeRozan is a Robin at best. An all-star level player that would be a great sidekick for a true franchise player.

It’s still a pretty high expectation for a raw player like DeMar, but I think it’s possible. He seems to have the work ethic to be a super star, just probably not enough to be a franchise player though.

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

nashyming… r u sayin that a superstar player is not always a franchise player??? im confused

[NashyMingParticipant]

Pippen was a superstar, would you say he’s a franchise player?

There are quite a lot of superstars, but I only considered players that can deliver championships to be franchise players.

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

i would say if pippen had a good enuff cast i think he wouldve been a franchise player on another team in his prime

[NashyMingParticipant]

I doubt Pippen can carry his team to a championship though. He’s the best Robin in the history of NBA though, but I have serious doubts if he can do that.

Certainly, Pippen would be a player to build around, but I doubt a team with him as the first option can win a championship.

[R-Dot-13Participant]

I am a Raptors fan as well..

but no, Demar likely cannot. He has the potential to be a 2 or 3 time all star I think, but I personally do not believe he will be better than Vince Carter or really that close.

And I hate to say it, but the Raptors may be the worst team in the east, and im ok with it.
I would rather be really bad and get Barnes, Jones or Kanter, than be semi bad and get a 8-14 pick.

Demar will always be a 2nd or 3rd option in his career IMO, I hope he can be a #1 option for us, but I do doubt it.

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

Question?? Who was the best Toronto Raptor ever Vince Carter or Chris Bosh?

[ilike.panochasParticipant]

I would go with Carter simply because he got the Raptors passed the 1st round, Bosh with Raptors they annually missed the playoffs almost every year, atleast Carter were in the playoffs every year.

[Bison 49Participant]

The Jefferson comparison is valid, as the two players stand right now. They are very comparable on many factes of the game, both good and bad. On the otherhand, DeRozan has the time, and opportunity to develop on those wekanesses, and potentially develop those weaknesses to the point where they are no longer liabilities. We see many players take a weakness and make it a strength. It takes a lot of work, but DeRozan has the time left in his career to do so. The big question is whether he keeps improving year after year to do so.

Right now Jefferson appears to be his potential. This seems to be a weak ceiling that he could break through if he decides to commit to being a true franchise player.

As far as the comparison of Carter and Bosh, neither consistently played like franchise players year in and year out, during their time with the Raptors. If DeRozan plays to his maximum capabilities, and does so for a good stretch, he can become the best Raptor of all time. This is one of those situations where a guy completely lives up to his potential, and many never do so.

He can, but will he?

[JNixonParticipant]

To answer any questions…..NO. Derozan will not become the greatest Raptor ever. I don’t see him being that good. His top upside I think is a 2nd option on a borderline playoff team (depending on who’s around him) or a 3rd option on a contender. The guy should never be counted on to lead a team though, he’s simply not that kind of player.

[OhCanada-Participant]

The following are facts, not my own opinion.

-DeMar Derozan improves drastically every year.
-DeMar Derozan has a large amount of unharnessed potential.
-DeMar Derozan is very quick, has high leaping and explosive abillity, and is very strong and in good shape for his age.
-The Toronto Raptors will be handing Playing Time to DeMar Derozan in search for a go-to guy and if he shows more improvements they will be glad to change up the Offensive Playbook to run set plays more in favor of Derozan’s game (like they did for Bosh).
-DeMar Derozan takes pride into his workouts and is dedicated to improving his all-around game. He is dedicated to improving every aspect of his game and believe’s no matter who he is challenging to be a number 1 option he will be that guy.
-DeMar Derozan listens to his Coaches and teammates and is easily coachable.

All I can say to you Iggy is.

Potential+Athletisism+Oppurtunity+Commitment = Success

[JNixonParticipant]

I think he’ll have success, but not quite to the tune that you do for whatever reason. No doubt he has potential, I don’t think his stats will stay the same as they were last year. No one disputes that. I know I haven’t. Maybe you don’t watch Richard Jefferson play, but he’s not a bad player. So it’s not like I’m saying Derozan will suck.

Derozan isn’t that quick really, it’s not a standout trait for him. Especially when the ball is in his hands, his pretty poor ball-handling slows him down when trying to create. He has good leaping ability, but his quickness isn’t really all that honestly. Definitely not noteworthy.

All of the intangible things can be said for a bunch of players. But if the Raptors are trying to make Derozan a “go-to guy” as you so kindly put it, they will continue to not be successful. Plain and simple, especially if they are trying to do that as soon as next season. He’s nowhere near polished enough to be a guy you run a bunch of plays for. Open your eyes and stop being biased man….Derozan isn’t a franchise player. I don’t think he’ll ever be either.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Jefferson is a good player and I am not doubting that.

Derozan is going to be better, and I am not being biast. I am watching the sport I love and assessing Derozan’s game. Last year Derozan could not bring the ball up the court and read the defense. He could niot refrain from trying to use his athletisism as his only option. His dribbling was spiratic and he had no go to moves.

After seeing improvements in all of these areas I can confidently say he will be alot better than I thought. He is most definitely not a second or third option since he is ball dominant. He still struggles in creating his own shot, but has really shown progress in a little pull up jumpshot. Also has shown progress in his post-up fade away.

Derozan has a smooth form on his jumpshot, he is confident in improving and puts the work in. Once he develops his 3-point range teams will have to play up on him. he will show more of his explosive abillity, his first step, and playmaking abillity when driving in through the lane as appose to cutting through it, which Jefferson does not do.

If you really think I am biast for thinking Derozan could be the 1st option on a well rounded team that reaches the Eastern Conference Finals, while averaging 22 5 3 and 1.5 then so be it. Im talking 4 years down the road when he is 25 I dont see why that is not possible.

[Mr.Knick 32Participant]

If you really think I am biast for thinking Derozan could be the 1st option on a well rounded team that reaches the Eastern Conference Finals, while averaging 22 5 3 and 1.5 then so be it. Im talking 4 years down the road when he is 25 I dont see why that is not possible.

That’s crazy talk man. I understand you believe in your team but that’s too bias for me. DeRozan has shown NOONE outside the city of Toronto that he’s a potential #1 option.

[R-Dot-13Participant]

Demar Derozan is the exact same player as Sonny Weems IMO. Neither are great shooters or ball handlers, but both areas are improving, both bring energy on D and rebounding. And are both surprisingly good passers too.

They make probably a top 5 athletic 2-3 combo in the league, and i think both have potential to be around 15+ ppg scorers on this team if they stick around for a few more years.

Of course i dont think either will be #1 options, unfortunetly. But both are pretty efficient players and can be good 2nd and 3rd options on this Toronto team in the future.

Would I like to see DD become a 1st option and lead this team deep in the playoffs? Of course. But personally, I dont see it happening unfortunetly

[JNixonParticipant]

He improved his handle MINIMALLY. In Summer League, his handle wasn’t good still. The ball still noticeably slows him down. He’s a better ball-handler than he used to be, but he’s not going to be a a big shot-creating threat any time soon.

His jump shot is still solid from mid-range, but his range, while developing, isn’t going to be more than average from 3. I’d be surprised if he ever shot 35% and/or made more than 1 3 point shot per game. He’s a mid-range shooter, and it’s not even elite from that area to give a sense that it can be a weapon if it develops range.

He needs to improve his 3-point shot AND his ball-handling to be more of a threat than he is right now. He’ll be an 11 ppg or MAYBE 12 ppg scorer next year, but he’s not someone you should ever try and mold into a 1st option. He’s a 2nd or ideally 3rd option at best.

Also you said: “he will show more of his explosive abillity, his first step, and playmaking abillity when driving in through the lane as appose to cutting through it, which Jefferson does not do.”

That is a sign you don’t watch Jefferson play much at all, or at least since he was a rookie or something. Jefferson has been a 20 ppg scorer in the NBA, he HAS to have done more than score off the ball to score that much. He is a slashing threat. With fine tuning on his shot, Derozan will be a slashing threat too. He only slashes to the rim if given too much daylight right now. Jefferson has the ability to slash to the rim no matter what.

I stand behind what I said….Derozan will be a Richard Jefferson type of player. If Jefferson is pacing your team in scoring, then you will probably be waiting for ping-pong balls to land in your favor. Same thing for Derozan too I believe

[dipt1982Participant]

I totally agree with Iggy on this one, he has a ton of potential. I just don’t see the drive in him to be a “franchise guy” who can carry a team very far. He lacks “all the tools” at this point and needs to improve on his overall game before we start talking about “best Raptor ever”.

Richard Jefferson is not a bad player at all, he’s just not ‘THE GUY’ as I suspect DeRozan will not be ‘THE GUY’. He seems to be the kind of player that needs other go to guys to help him out. I could be totally wrong in 2-3 years, but that’s what I see of him right now. And yes, if you expect him to be the leader and the man in Toronto, expect to be winning the lottery every year…

[dipt1982Participant]

I totally agree with Iggy on this one, he has a ton of potential. I just don’t see the drive in him to be a “franchise guy” who can carry a team very far. He lacks “all the tools” at this point and needs to improve on his overall game before we start talking about “best Raptor ever”.

Richard Jefferson is not a bad player at all, he’s just not ‘THE GUY’ as I suspect DeRozan will not be ‘THE GUY’. He seems to be the kind of player that needs other go to guys to help him out. I could be totally wrong in 2-3 years, but that’s what I see of him right now. And yes, if you expect him to be the leader and the man in Toronto, expect to be winning the lottery every year…

I see him having a Michael Beasley type sophomore year…and NO I’m not COMPARING him to Beasley at all, just in general. He will step up from his first season and get around 13-15ppg, but don’t expect a huge breakout…

[sc0rebuckets11Participant]

idk.. Carter will be hard to beat, mainly bc he’s such a natural in the game.

Derozan has a lot he needs to work on, and the main thing is mental.

If he’ll sit down, and watch some game tape.. that would be a great first step.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Im gonna bring this article back from the dead and throw it in all your faces when Derozan emerges.

[JNixonParticipant]

-____________________-

[JoeWolf1]

Until DeRozen LEADS Toronto past the 1st round of the playoffs like Vince Carter did, then he won’t be. They have only advanced past the 1st round 1 time in their history and Carter was “the guy”. Until DeRozen is “the guy” and the Raps advance, then he won’t be and thats a tall task.

[dipt1982Participant]

I don’t see superstar talent when I watch him play. Nor do I see the superstar demeanor in his game. I could be wrong, and hope I do, cause I hate to hope for failure from any player. I just don’t see him ever being the centerpiece, a guy that you build your team around. I see him more as a guy you would put with a real superstar as a set piece…

[Snubs15Participant]

The RJ comparison is pretty solid, but you said only a 15ppg scorer. That seems a little low to me. He averaged 17 ppg last year as a 2nd option with no outside shot.

If he gets a 3pt shot and is the 1st option he’ll average 25ppg easy imo.

[Snubs15Participant]

The RJ comparison is pretty solid, but you said only a 15ppg scorer. That seems a little low to me. He averaged 17 ppg last year as a 2nd option with no outside shot.

If he gets a 3pt shot and is the 1st option he’ll average 25ppg easy imo.

[WizardofOzParticipant]

@cost15

"If he gets a 3pt shot and is the 1st option he’ll average 25ppg easy imo."

I doubt he ever becomes a good 3pt shooter in his career. The guy shot one of the worst 3pt percentages in NBA history so far in his careere. He’s only made 9/68 3’s(!) in his 2-year career. You act like it’s going to be a piece of cake for him to develop a 3pt shot, but some people never really imrpove their shots when they’re in the league. He’s a hrad worker, so he could prove me wrong, but I have doubts.

I think he’s a 2nd/3rd option at best. No 1st option. He’s a good mid-range shooter, but he still has poor handles, poor 3pt shot, doesn’t create for his teammates, and is a poor defender. No question he’s going to imrpove his game though. He’s a gymrat.

[WizardofOzParticipant]

@cost15

"If he gets a 3pt shot and is the 1st option he’ll average 25ppg easy imo."

I doubt he ever becomes a good 3pt shooter in his career. The guy shot one of the worst 3pt percentages in NBA history so far in his careere. He’s only made 9/68 3’s(!) in his 2-year career. You act like it’s going to be a piece of cake for him to develop a 3pt shot, but some people never really imrpove their shots when they’re in the league. He’s a hrad worker, so he could prove me wrong, but I have doubts.

I think he’s a 2nd/3rd option at best. No 1st option. He’s a good mid-range shooter, but he still has poor handles, poor 3pt shot, doesn’t create for his teammates, and is a poor defender. No question he’s going to imrpove his game though. He’s a gymrat.

[PlatypusParticipant]

when they get the #1 pick who will they take? Point guard? Barnes? or Drummond?

[PlatypusParticipant]

when they get the #1 pick who will they take? Point guard? Barnes? or Drummond?

[iguapops420Participant]

 Damn, looks like your 11-12ppg expectations were pretty much off huh JNixon. With Derozan’s development, I could honestly see a 2nd option behind a stud big like Drummond, or a terrific scorer with a bad win-loss record.

I personaly saw Travis Outlaw when he was with the Blazers in Derozan and I was openly wrong. Don’t discrdit a guy’s potential just because he’s young when he enters th L. 

Can’t beliv Oh Canada hasn’t jumped on this thread yet.

[iguapops420Participant]

 Damn, looks like your 11-12ppg expectations were pretty much off huh JNixon. With Derozan’s development, I could honestly see a 2nd option behind a stud big like Drummond, or a terrific scorer with a bad win-loss record.

I personaly saw Travis Outlaw when he was with the Blazers in Derozan and I was openly wrong. Don’t discrdit a guy’s potential just because he’s young when he enters th L. 

Can’t beliv Oh Canada hasn’t jumped on this thread yet.

[JNixonParticipant]

I said 15 ppg.

And are you on my dick a little?

[JNixonParticipant]

I said 15 ppg.

And are you on my dick a little?

[iguapops420Participant]

 No actually you said he’d be an 11-12ppg scorer this past season. look at your last post. Simply stating the obvious and thought it was pretty funny seeing this thread brought back up. Don’t get mad because you had a wrong assesment. You’re the one after all who tends to discredit anyone else thoughts on a payer like your some kind of pro scout. Oh Canade had an opinion and instead of simply disagreeing you hav to go on trying to prove him wrong with arguments that ARENT going to change his opinion no matter how logical or illogical his assesment of said player may be. And really, I could think you’ve got the issue with me. Take a look at the 2012 comparison thread. You’ve got people comparing Marshall to Jason Kidd and you decide my assesment of MArshall playing like Shaun Livingston as bbeing the one you disagree with. No worries, just thought it was pretty funny to see you wrong and having to admit it for a change. But I do respect your knowledge of the game and opinions on it no matter how much I disagree with you sometimes.

[iguapops420Participant]

 No actually you said he’d be an 11-12ppg scorer this past season. look at your last post. Simply stating the obvious and thought it was pretty funny seeing this thread brought back up. Don’t get mad because you had a wrong assesment. You’re the one after all who tends to discredit anyone else thoughts on a payer like your some kind of pro scout. Oh Canade had an opinion and instead of simply disagreeing you hav to go on trying to prove him wrong with arguments that ARENT going to change his opinion no matter how logical or illogical his assesment of said player may be. And really, I could think you’ve got the issue with me. Take a look at the 2012 comparison thread. You’ve got people comparing Marshall to Jason Kidd and you decide my assesment of MArshall playing like Shaun Livingston as bbeing the one you disagree with. No worries, just thought it was pretty funny to see you wrong and having to admit it for a change. But I do respect your knowledge of the game and opinions on it no matter how much I disagree with you sometimes.

[JNixonParticipant]

 I feel like you literally click my name and comment on just about everything I say on here by almost stalking my posts. Its weird. I honestly think you should just post and give me space. Maybe arguing with me is a highlight of your day or something, but I think it just needs to be said. Its obviously not as big a deal me to talk basketball on a faceless forum as it is to you, but its not gonna stop you anyway. Im more flattered than anything I guess

[JNixonParticipant]

 I feel like you literally click my name and comment on just about everything I say on here by almost stalking my posts. Its weird. I honestly think you should just post and give me space. Maybe arguing with me is a highlight of your day or something, but I think it just needs to be said. Its obviously not as big a deal me to talk basketball on a faceless forum as it is to you, but its not gonna stop you anyway. Im more flattered than anything I guess

[iguapops420Participant]

 Right, thats why you;ve made 11,000+ posts in 2 years b/c posting on a faceless forum means nothing to you. I just get tired of trying to read a thread and everytime someone makes any kind of assesment that you disagree with you hav to go on acting like a dick to them in quite a condescending fashion. Just the way you did with Oh Canada. You always have somthing to say but then when your proven wrong you have some excuse as to why the facts are wrong. Just like me showing you that Livingston plays pg after you saying he played exclusively at sg and sf. then you went on to talk how he may not have played there at Char, but he did in Wash, then I show you the facts that he payed pg there too and you make up more reasons about how he plays offball. You are just too smug for yourself. I admit you know basketball. But you just absolutely are not the be all end all god of nbadraft.net like you think.  You are truly the only person on this site I would say that irks me. 

[iguapops420Participant]

 Right, thats why you;ve made 11,000+ posts in 2 years b/c posting on a faceless forum means nothing to you. I just get tired of trying to read a thread and everytime someone makes any kind of assesment that you disagree with you hav to go on acting like a dick to them in quite a condescending fashion. Just the way you did with Oh Canada. You always have somthing to say but then when your proven wrong you have some excuse as to why the facts are wrong. Just like me showing you that Livingston plays pg after you saying he played exclusively at sg and sf. then you went on to talk how he may not have played there at Char, but he did in Wash, then I show you the facts that he payed pg there too and you make up more reasons about how he plays offball. You are just too smug for yourself. I admit you know basketball. But you just absolutely are not the be all end all god of nbadraft.net like you think.  You are truly the only person on this site I would say that irks me. 

[JNixonParticipant]

It means something to me in that I can talk basketball with people that like the game like I do, but I doesn’t mean that I literally stalk what people say just because they "irk" me. There is a thin line between having a competitive argument naturally, and fishing for an argument. I’m NEVER going to cross that line.

If you think I’m a dick about anything on here, you need to get a helmet or get on a cheerleading forum. It gets worse than what I say, believe me. I talk about what I see and just like you have an opinion, I have one. I don’t know why you have to be nice, but maybe some people can’t take the heat. Maybe confidence can be taken for being a dick, but whats the point of posting if you don’t think your right about everything? Why post if you know you’re wrong? Makes no sense. I think I’m right everytime I post, and I know I’ve been wrong. Doesn’t stop me from saying what I think. I’m not God-like in my results obviously, but I will say what I think. If you call that being a dick, more power to you.

[JNixonParticipant]

It means something to me in that I can talk basketball with people that like the game like I do, but I doesn’t mean that I literally stalk what people say just because they "irk" me. There is a thin line between having a competitive argument naturally, and fishing for an argument. I’m NEVER going to cross that line.

If you think I’m a dick about anything on here, you need to get a helmet or get on a cheerleading forum. It gets worse than what I say, believe me. I talk about what I see and just like you have an opinion, I have one. I don’t know why you have to be nice, but maybe some people can’t take the heat. Maybe confidence can be taken for being a dick, but whats the point of posting if you don’t think your right about everything? Why post if you know you’re wrong? Makes no sense. I think I’m right everytime I post, and I know I’ve been wrong. Doesn’t stop me from saying what I think. I’m not God-like in my results obviously, but I will say what I think. If you call that being a dick, more power to you.

[iguapops420Participant]

 Its not a matter of what you say, simply how you say it. And show me one instance besides this one where i came "Fishing’ for an argument with you. Literaly every argument we;ve had besides this one was because you have saw my post and decided to disagree. But I could care less. Not a big deal, just sriously cant stand someone talking down to myself or others lik you’re above everything. 

[iguapops420Participant]

 Its not a matter of what you say, simply how you say it. And show me one instance besides this one where i came "Fishing’ for an argument with you. Literaly every argument we;ve had besides this one was because you have saw my post and decided to disagree. But I could care less. Not a big deal, just sriously cant stand someone talking down to myself or others lik you’re above everything. 

[rileymcshea3Participant]

Why are we talking about Derozan leading the Rapts ? Its all about Valanciunas!!

Haha nahh but really Demar isnt gonna be the number one option there for the next 3 years with Bargani there because lets face it even though Bargani is terrible at defense and rebounding he is super skilled at offense he is already 15th in the league at scoring.Yeah top 15! And there are 30 teams in the league so that means he would be leading more then 15 teams in ppg .Thats pretty good and he is only getting better ,espically with there new head coach coming from the Mavs who has had experience with shooting 7 footers .

The Rapts are also getting Valanciunas and like i have always said he has so much potential .He was a beast on the lithuanian team not just at scoring but rebounding too.So I could see the Raptors having a Ed Davis and Jonas Valanciuns starting and have a super six man with Andrea Bargani coming off the bench (kinda like Jamal Crawford but with a bigman)

And for there last piece to become a solid team in the East for the future is going to have to happen in the next draft.Now i dont see how you can guarantee that the Rapts wont have a top 5 pick the draft because im looking at the standings and i dont see the much teams that are worst then the Raptors but with a top 3 pick(there probably gonna be in that range) There best option is Harrison Barnes .But if they get lucky with the number 1 pick they should trade Drummond for a great pg .But if they somehow do get out of the top 5 they still get good options to fill there wholes since this is a goood draft year.

[rileymcshea3Participant]

Why are we talking about Derozan leading the Rapts ? Its all about Valanciunas!!

Haha nahh but really Demar isnt gonna be the number one option there for the next 3 years with Bargani there because lets face it even though Bargani is terrible at defense and rebounding he is super skilled at offense he is already 15th in the league at scoring.Yeah top 15! And there are 30 teams in the league so that means he would be leading more then 15 teams in ppg .Thats pretty good and he is only getting better ,espically with there new head coach coming from the Mavs who has had experience with shooting 7 footers .

The Rapts are also getting Valanciunas and like i have always said he has so much potential .He was a beast on the lithuanian team not just at scoring but rebounding too.So I could see the Raptors having a Ed Davis and Jonas Valanciuns starting and have a super six man with Andrea Bargani coming off the bench (kinda like Jamal Crawford but with a bigman)

And for there last piece to become a solid team in the East for the future is going to have to happen in the next draft.Now i dont see how you can guarantee that the Rapts wont have a top 5 pick the draft because im looking at the standings and i dont see the much teams that are worst then the Raptors but with a top 3 pick(there probably gonna be in that range) There best option is Harrison Barnes .But if they get lucky with the number 1 pick they should trade Drummond for a great pg .But if they somehow do get out of the top 5 they still get good options to fill there wholes since this is a goood draft year.

[JNixonParticipant]

The argument about Kansas’ guards. You started that. : http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/underrated-college-pgs

This about Joey Graham, you tried to start. But I didn’t respond because it was stupid to try and single me out for this, I thought. : http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/2010-11-fights

The stupid, stupid argument from yesterday.: http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/whos-best-pg-nba-today

Those are all legit debates that I’ve had with you, the only ones besides one I can think of. The only thing I’ve legitimately started a debate about with you from what I remember is when I saw that you said was "Iman Shumpert was like Dwyane Wade if he has decisin-making skills" yadda yadda ya. But I didn’t have to stalk everythign you say to find it. -__-

[JNixonParticipant]

The argument about Kansas’ guards. You started that. : http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/underrated-college-pgs

This about Joey Graham, you tried to start. But I didn’t respond because it was stupid to try and single me out for this, I thought. : http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/2010-11-fights

The stupid, stupid argument from yesterday.: http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/whos-best-pg-nba-today

Those are all legit debates that I’ve had with you, the only ones besides one I can think of. The only thing I’ve legitimately started a debate about with you from what I remember is when I saw that you said was "Iman Shumpert was like Dwyane Wade if he has decisin-making skills" yadda yadda ya. But I didn’t have to stalk everythign you say to find it. -__-

[JNixonParticipant]

Lets not forget about these guys:

Another attempted argument…smh. Likely fished out: http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/lance-stephenson-and-alec-burks-indy-pro-am#comment-378906

Gets old quick…: http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/shooting-guards-0

 

 

[JNixonParticipant]

Lets not forget about these guys:

Another attempted argument…smh. Likely fished out: http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/lance-stephenson-and-alec-burks-indy-pro-am#comment-378906

Gets old quick…: http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/shooting-guards-0

 

 

[iguapops420Participant]

 Dude, you disagreed with ME about the Kansas players, and the shooting guards.In fact, if you look at my first post rgarding the Elijah Johnson, I actually AGREE with you. Where did I ever say one thing towards you in the thread about Stephenson &Burks. Because I disagreed with yours and SEVERAL other peoples posts? Feel threatened or something? Geez.

I did disagree with you about Wall because you made a point I disagreed with. Same with Graham, because You called him a beast I’ve clearly seen him get punked out so bad that he had his own teammats on the sidelines laughing at him.

I could easily find all the times you have disagreed with me but I dont care nearly enough about this argument to go "fishing" for past posts. How can you seriously tink I go "fishing" for your posts when I literally never leave the first page and read only the things that are updated regularly.

Argument ended.

[iguapops420Participant]

 Dude, you disagreed with ME about the Kansas players, and the shooting guards.In fact, if you look at my first post rgarding the Elijah Johnson, I actually AGREE with you. Where did I ever say one thing towards you in the thread about Stephenson &Burks. Because I disagreed with yours and SEVERAL other peoples posts? Feel threatened or something? Geez.

I did disagree with you about Wall because you made a point I disagreed with. Same with Graham, because You called him a beast I’ve clearly seen him get punked out so bad that he had his own teammats on the sidelines laughing at him.

I could easily find all the times you have disagreed with me but I dont care nearly enough about this argument to go "fishing" for past posts. How can you seriously tink I go "fishing" for your posts when I literally never leave the first page and read only the things that are updated regularly.

Argument ended.

[JNixonParticipant]

Argument ended though right? OK sensitive man…

[JNixonParticipant]

Argument ended though right? OK sensitive man…

[iguapops420Participant]

 Not sensitive, just don;t care enough about this stupid thing to kep arguing w/ you over nonsense. Name calling? Really? Are you like 9 or something? Grow up friend. Life is more than just posting on a website all day. Go out and find a life in the real world. Get a gf or sumthin. This is ridiculous lmao.

 

[iguapops420Participant]

 Not sensitive, just don;t care enough about this stupid thing to kep arguing w/ you over nonsense. Name calling? Really? Are you like 9 or something? Grow up friend. Life is more than just posting on a website all day. Go out and find a life in the real world. Get a gf or sumthin. This is ridiculous lmao.

 

[JNixonParticipant]

Still going….

[JNixonParticipant]

Still going….

[omphalosParticipant]

I actually really rate DeRozan; he seems like he wants the challenge of winning in Toronto, and if he could make them a successful franchise and persist with them where Bosh and VC failed then his name would go down in history. Bargnani is in the doghouse, and Casey won’t be giving him a tonne of minutes unless he commits to defending, so it’s easy to see a harder working player like DeRozan getting the nod and exploding. He really made a big jump with his game, and keep in mind he has at least another two years of adjustment ahead of him. DeMar is going to be a very good player in this League down the road, and if Toronto can keep their team together the Raptors can be a contender in 2-4 years.

Honestly, I like Bargs as a second option paired with Valanciunas in the back-court, and it could be a Dirk/Chandler situation down the track given the similarities between the two players. I like Ed Davis, but with Valanciunas in the fold as an inside presence, that scoring at the 4 which Bargs brings is more important in my opinion.

[omphalosParticipant]

I actually really rate DeRozan; he seems like he wants the challenge of winning in Toronto, and if he could make them a successful franchise and persist with them where Bosh and VC failed then his name would go down in history. Bargnani is in the doghouse, and Casey won’t be giving him a tonne of minutes unless he commits to defending, so it’s easy to see a harder working player like DeRozan getting the nod and exploding. He really made a big jump with his game, and keep in mind he has at least another two years of adjustment ahead of him. DeMar is going to be a very good player in this League down the road, and if Toronto can keep their team together the Raptors can be a contender in 2-4 years.

Honestly, I like Bargs as a second option paired with Valanciunas in the back-court, and it could be a Dirk/Chandler situation down the track given the similarities between the two players. I like Ed Davis, but with Valanciunas in the fold as an inside presence, that scoring at the 4 which Bargs brings is more important in my opinion.

[ilike.panochasParticipant]

I wasn’t a huge fan of Derozan when he first came in the league, I thought he was a long term project and may take several years to be decent-good player, but he has proven me wrong and averaged 17PPG this season, despite not having a 3 point shot, unpolish ball handling. This shows me that he has a TON of room for improvement, 22-23PPG is well within his reach if he improves his jumpshot, range and ball handling, and he is still 21 years old.

He jumped from 8PPG his rookie year, to 17PPG. That is HUGE improvement, and this shows his improvement curve is ascending at an accelerating rate. I can see another 3-4 PPG improvement (20PPG next season) in him next season.

[ilike.panochasParticipant]

I wasn’t a huge fan of Derozan when he first came in the league, I thought he was a long term project and may take several years to be decent-good player, but he has proven me wrong and averaged 17PPG this season, despite not having a 3 point shot, unpolish ball handling. This shows me that he has a TON of room for improvement, 22-23PPG is well within his reach if he improves his jumpshot, range and ball handling, and he is still 21 years old.

He jumped from 8PPG his rookie year, to 17PPG. That is HUGE improvement, and this shows his improvement curve is ascending at an accelerating rate. I can see another 3-4 PPG improvement (20PPG next season) in him next season.

[kngojcParticipant]

 I don’t think Derozan can really be a first option on this team. Not saying he doesn’t have the talent or will to be because he sure as hell does. I think it is more that Bargnani won’t let him become the primary scorer or the go-to guy offensively because if Andrea doesn’t have his offensive abilities on display… What else does he show? 

IF Derozan develops a consistent shot, and that is a big IF, I think he could get somewhere around 25-27 ppg in about two years. I mean him developing that shot isn’t that far out of question, Derrick Rose did it last summer and this year he could knock down the perimeter shot with a hand in his face or wide open. I think right now, he needs to develop the confidence in his shot that could make him so much more of a threat. 

And while I agree that he is somewhat far off from being a great player, much less the best player in Raptor’s history, he has what it takes to be remembered as one of the better players in that organization. 

[kngojcParticipant]

 I don’t think Derozan can really be a first option on this team. Not saying he doesn’t have the talent or will to be because he sure as hell does. I think it is more that Bargnani won’t let him become the primary scorer or the go-to guy offensively because if Andrea doesn’t have his offensive abilities on display… What else does he show? 

IF Derozan develops a consistent shot, and that is a big IF, I think he could get somewhere around 25-27 ppg in about two years. I mean him developing that shot isn’t that far out of question, Derrick Rose did it last summer and this year he could knock down the perimeter shot with a hand in his face or wide open. I think right now, he needs to develop the confidence in his shot that could make him so much more of a threat. 

And while I agree that he is somewhat far off from being a great player, much less the best player in Raptor’s history, he has what it takes to be remembered as one of the better players in that organization. 

[Snubs15Participant]

Yeah, he had a pretty awful percentage but i think its somewhat not true to his actual ability. Almost half of those attempts are probably end of the shot clock/game clock contested 3’s. He bareely shot the 3 when he was open  because he knows thats not his game. Im not saying it will happen but if he does add a 3pt shot to his game he will be a pretty deadly scorer in the league.

[Snubs15Participant]

Yeah, he had a pretty awful percentage but i think its somewhat not true to his actual ability. Almost half of those attempts are probably end of the shot clock/game clock contested 3’s. He bareely shot the 3 when he was open  because he knows thats not his game. Im not saying it will happen but if he does add a 3pt shot to his game he will be a pretty deadly scorer in the league.

[Toronto16Participant]

He has a chance yes, to be the greatest Raptor ever, but if the Raptors land a top 3 pick in the 2012 or 2013 class, that chance goes out the window.

[Toronto16Participant]

He has a chance yes, to be the greatest Raptor ever, but if the Raptors land a top 3 pick in the 2012 or 2013 class, that chance goes out the window.

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

 BUMP. I was browsing through old forum posts and came across this. Reading your listed requirements for Demar to be greatest Raptor of all time, I see he has passed with flying colors. Except for the eastern conference semis part, though they will no doubt make it in the future.

 I love your optimsm for your hometown Raptors OhCanada. Seeing this post 3 years later should put a smile on your face. Demar will only get better and I say abt 2 years from now he WILL be the Greatest Raptor All-time.

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

 BUMP. I was browsing through old forum posts and came across this. Reading your listed requirements for Demar to be greatest Raptor of all time, I see he has passed with flying colors. Except for the eastern conference semis part, though they will no doubt make it in the future.

 I love your optimsm for your hometown Raptors OhCanada. Seeing this post 3 years later should put a smile on your face. Demar will only get better and I say abt 2 years from now he WILL be the Greatest Raptor All-time.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Yah I’m bumping this one. Where are you now Jnixon!

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Yah I’m bumping this one. Where are you now Jnixon!

[McDunkin]

Earlier today Taylor C , Chewy, and the rest of the NBADraft.net forum security team have entered Jnixons home in search of him and his response to Matt Bonners (OhCanada) call out.

 

 

This footage is all Aran will allow us to show

[McDunkin]

Earlier today Taylor C , Chewy, and the rest of the NBADraft.net forum security team have entered Jnixons home in search of him and his response to Matt Bonners (OhCanada) call out.

 

 

This footage is all Aran will allow us to show

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