[OhCanada-Participant]

 With the draft approaching most expect the Toronto Raptors to attempt to fill a need at PF with the 9th overall pick. A question I keep asking myself is how does Bruno Caboclo compare to players that would fill a similar need at PF in the 2016 NBA Draft?

Assuming Bender and Chriss are selected the players that will be available at #9 and should be considered are Poetl, Sabonis, Davis, Ellenson, Labissiere, Maker, Johnson and Stone. Due to this years draft depth there is also a chance one of these players actually fall to Toronto at 27.

This leaves Ujiri and staff with alot of tough decisions leading into the draft especially with a key piece of the team and frontcourt expecting a huge raise in a contract year Biyambo. One I don’t see asked enough is are these 8 prospects better prospects than Caboclo?

What do the Raptors need from thier PF?.

 The Raptors team is built around Lowry, Derozan, and Valanciunas/Biyambo demands spacing so he needs to have three point shooting range and also have quick enough feet and ballhandling to attack closeouts. Valanciunas is not a quick footed defender and struggles in space so he needs to compensate for that with good rim protection and help defense instincts. The teams offense can be stagnant at times so someone with a good passing skills to help keep a constant flow and order in the offense would be nice.

Shooting, attacking closeouts, quick feet, quick instincts, help defense, passing.

I’m too busy to do this for every prospect but since Poetl is the highest on my draft board yet argueably the worst fit I’ll do it for him.

 

Jakob Poetl- Shooting- *Questionable*

 I feel like his shooting has constantly improved and his form is solid which should lead to success with more reps. It may not be ready today but I wouldn’t be concerned in the future. With that being said he hasn’t proven he can shoot and he and his coach both say it’s what he is working on everyday. Time will only tell.

-Attacking Closeouts-*Fail*

 He maybe quick for his size but when matched up with 6’7 to 6’10 players for the most part he won’t be having much of an advantage offensively. The ball handling is not there.

-Quick Feet-*Questionable*

 Some say he is quick enough to gaurd PF’s to me this will make or break his career. If he can get out there full time and be able to switch on gaurd and be a mobile defender while guarding PF’s fulltime he has all-star upside.

-Quick Instincts-*Pass*

  He is a smart player that makes good decisions on the court. Good ball IQ and rarely looks lost.

-Help D-*Pass*

Poetl is an active defender that can defend in space as well. He has shown glimpses of being able to block shots at the rim and help his team after penetration.

-Passing-*Pass*

Seems to have a good feel for the game and understanding of his systems concepts and where everyone is on the floor. Skill level continues to improve everyday.

 

 

******************************************

 

Bruno Caboclo

-Shooting-*Pass*

Has a great natural touch but his form can be inconsistent and he is a very streaky shooter at this point. Shot selection has been attracious though and he should get better percentages and production as he learns the game more.

-Attacking Closeouts-*Questionable*

Shows the ability to take long stride toward the rim and finish in traffic although his ball handling is uncoordinated and needs to improve.

-Quick Feet- *Pass*

Caboclo’s natural position maybe SF as he is quite fluid for a 6’10 player with a 7’6 wingspan.

-Quick Instincts- *Fail*

Bruno has just a basic understanding of basketball. Let’s be fair, the D-League basketball he played is the only time he has started. In Brazil he barely got off the bench. So essentially he has played one full year as a starter competitively in the D-League while still completing the task of learning English. How much could he possibly know.

-Help D- *Pass*

He shows all the tools to be a great rim protector but it really falls back on his basketball IQ which is light years behind where it needs to be to be an NBA player. Although with his length and athleticism along with decent defensive responsibility he has all the makings of a good definitely defender.

-Passing-*Questionable*

Advanced stats show Caboclo is a better passer than you would think but at this point I doubt that would translate to the NBA game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 To sum it up I think the Raptors maybe thinking Caboclo is as capable as or better than most of the prospects would be at filling the Raptors PF role going forward. With that being said I think the Raptors are praying someone in that top 8 falls to them or maybe looking elsewhere with the 9th pick like Korkmaz or trading down.

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 To sum it up I think the Raptors maybe thinking Caboclo is as capable as or better than most of the prospects would be at filling the Raptors PF role going forward. With that being said I think the Raptors are praying someone in that top 8 falls to them or maybe looking elsewhere with the 9th pick like Korkmaz or trading down.

 

[Anton123Participant]

I don’t think anyone can answer if Caboclo is better than the other prospects. We’ve actually got more information on this year’s draft prospects than on Caboclo. I’ve watched his d-league highlights and looked at his stats, but I still have no idea if any of that will translate to the NBA. I’m not even sure about his position, is he strong enough to be a PF? Quick enough to be a SF?

The Raptors have so many contracts expiring that they may end up needing a SF, PF and C. This makes their draft a lot easier, whether or not Bruno is good, the pick will probably still fill a need and there will likely be no logjam. 

[he_gets_bucketsParticipant]

 "watched his highlights and looked at his stats" 

Thats some thorough scouting you’ve done there

 

[machu46Participant]

To be fair, if someone cared enough, they could put together a short YouTube video that shows every meaningful moment of his NBA career so far. 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

He has played 66 minutes and made 5 of 24 shots in two years. The highlight tape would not be much longer than Fran Frachilla’s attempt to say he is raw before stumbling into the "two years away from being two years away" comment.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

He has played 66 minutes and made 5 of 24 shots in two years. The highlight tape would not be much longer than Fran Frachilla’s attempt to say he is raw before stumbling into the "two years away from being two years away" comment.

[machu46Participant]

Yeah, that’s what I’m getting at lol.

[machu46Participant]

Yeah, that’s what I’m getting at lol.

[machu46Participant]

To be fair, if someone cared enough, they could put together a short YouTube video that shows every meaningful moment of his NBA career so far. 

[Hype Machine]

Lol buckets is a tough critic to say the least.

Im pretty sure he gave me +1 once cos he ran out of ways to express how much he hated me. 

Nice guy tho!

 

 

 

 

[he_gets_bucketsParticipant]

 Don’t know why you think I hate ya mate, I love your posts. Quality Aussie banter

[Hype Machine]

Lol I think you were just messing around. Its all good.

Sometimes I think our sense of humour gets a bit lost in translation to the rest of the forum.

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 No way.  Humor is a universal language.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 No way.  Humor is a universal language.

[Hype Machine]

Lol I think you were just messing around. Its all good.

Sometimes I think our sense of humour gets a bit lost in translation to the rest of the forum.

 

[he_gets_bucketsParticipant]

 Don’t know why you think I hate ya mate, I love your posts. Quality Aussie banter

[Hype Machine]

Lol buckets is a tough critic to say the least.

Im pretty sure he gave me +1 once cos he ran out of ways to express how much he hated me. 

Nice guy tho!

 

 

 

 

[he_gets_bucketsParticipant]

 "watched his highlights and looked at his stats" 

Thats some thorough scouting you’ve done there

 

[Anton123Participant]

I don’t think anyone can answer if Caboclo is better than the other prospects. We’ve actually got more information on this year’s draft prospects than on Caboclo. I’ve watched his d-league highlights and looked at his stats, but I still have no idea if any of that will translate to the NBA. I’m not even sure about his position, is he strong enough to be a PF? Quick enough to be a SF?

The Raptors have so many contracts expiring that they may end up needing a SF, PF and C. This makes their draft a lot easier, whether or not Bruno is good, the pick will probably still fill a need and there will likely be no logjam. 

[Hype Machine]

Id suggest a versatile and athletic 4.

An international upperclassman with multiple school records tried out for Raptors on Sunday. 

Could be worth a look at #27.

Right around where hes mocked on my draft board.

 

 

[Hype Machine]

Id suggest a versatile and athletic 4.

An international upperclassman with multiple school records tried out for Raptors on Sunday. 

Could be worth a look at #27.

Right around where hes mocked on my draft board.

 

 

[machu46Participant]

I’m confused…is the OP basically saying that whoever they draft at #9 probably won’t be an NBA player either?  Or does he think that Bruno is going to go from not playing at all to suddenly being a good player? I’d be shocked if Bruno gets more minutes next year than any of the guys listed in the OP.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 I’m saying although guys like Poetl, Sabonis and Ellenson maybe more NBA ready than Caboclo they don’t provide what the Raptors need from a PF. Guys that do project to be food fits for the role like Davis, Maker and Skal are likely going to come into the league as raw as Caboclo is now if not more raw and one of them may fall to 27. The Raptors are confident in thier choice to select Bruno and will continue to patiently develop Bruno so the pick at 9 will likely be BPA no matter what and if the BPA is 10 different prospects they are less likely to select the one that covers Caboclo’s future role. Same reason they didn’t select Portis last year.

[machu46Participant]

You’re the Raptors fan, so I’ll defer to you, but I have a hard time believing that anyone taken in the top 10 this year will play fewer minutes next year than Caboclo has in two years combined.  It seems like Bruno was simply a failed draft pick at this point in time, though Fran did say "two years away from being two years away", so maybe he’s coming along just as expected.  I don’t think the learning curve for Skal or Davis is nearly that long though.  At any rate, you don’t let a guy like Bruno impact your draft decisions.

[machu46Participant]

You’re the Raptors fan, so I’ll defer to you, but I have a hard time believing that anyone taken in the top 10 this year will play fewer minutes next year than Caboclo has in two years combined.  It seems like Bruno was simply a failed draft pick at this point in time, though Fran did say "two years away from being two years away", so maybe he’s coming along just as expected.  I don’t think the learning curve for Skal or Davis is nearly that long though.  At any rate, you don’t let a guy like Bruno impact your draft decisions.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 I’m saying although guys like Poetl, Sabonis and Ellenson maybe more NBA ready than Caboclo they don’t provide what the Raptors need from a PF. Guys that do project to be food fits for the role like Davis, Maker and Skal are likely going to come into the league as raw as Caboclo is now if not more raw and one of them may fall to 27. The Raptors are confident in thier choice to select Bruno and will continue to patiently develop Bruno so the pick at 9 will likely be BPA no matter what and if the BPA is 10 different prospects they are less likely to select the one that covers Caboclo’s future role. Same reason they didn’t select Portis last year.

[machu46Participant]

I’m confused…is the OP basically saying that whoever they draft at #9 probably won’t be an NBA player either?  Or does he think that Bruno is going to go from not playing at all to suddenly being a good player? I’d be shocked if Bruno gets more minutes next year than any of the guys listed in the OP.

[Anton123Participant]

Hey, OhCanada, as you are a Raptors fan, I was wondering what do you think about Toronto’s decision to select Bruno and bring him over right away instead of stashing him overseas for a couple years?

He still doesn’t seem NBA ready and he just has two years left on his rookie contract. If he develops by his fourth year, they will have to throw good money at him very soon. 

Are you happy with the decision as a fan or do you think it was a bad decision?

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Bruno had multiple promises in the 2nd round. Bruno told the Raptors thier 2nd round promise wouldn’t be enough so the Raptors decided to pick him first. The Caboclo team didn’t want to be stashed so the agreement was he would stay with the team spend the beginning of his career on the bench mentoring the vets and practicing with them while being integrated into North American society and learning the language, adding weight. Year 2 to develop with minutes in the D-League and year 3 will be his time to dominate in the D-League and perhaps be called up so he is on track as long as he becomes more efficient this year and polishes his overall game. Year 4 he should be ready according to the plan which seems to be right on course.

As far as the idea of having Hood instead of Caboclo, I don’t really see how  he would have helped the Raptors beat the Cavs this year as apposed to Ross and/or Powell. Call me optimistic but I still believe that the Caboclo project can be accomplished. When fully developed he will hopefully be a Andrei Kirelenko type player.

He is basically a draft and stash type player, but instead of stashing him in a non English country they held his hand here in North America to ensure his development. I’m happy with the progress but waiting for the finished product.

 

 

 

[Anton123Participant]

Yeah, so if he’s ready by year four that means they basically signed him to a one year 5,5 million contract after which he is free to leave or demand a lot of money from the Raptors. He is basically a draft and stash plar whose contract expires by the end of his stash, no?

[Anton123Participant]

Yeah, so if he’s ready by year four that means they basically signed him to a one year 5,5 million contract after which he is free to leave or demand a lot of money from the Raptors. He is basically a draft and stash plar whose contract expires by the end of his stash, no?

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Bruno had multiple promises in the 2nd round. Bruno told the Raptors thier 2nd round promise wouldn’t be enough so the Raptors decided to pick him first. The Caboclo team didn’t want to be stashed so the agreement was he would stay with the team spend the beginning of his career on the bench mentoring the vets and practicing with them while being integrated into North American society and learning the language, adding weight. Year 2 to develop with minutes in the D-League and year 3 will be his time to dominate in the D-League and perhaps be called up so he is on track as long as he becomes more efficient this year and polishes his overall game. Year 4 he should be ready according to the plan which seems to be right on course.

As far as the idea of having Hood instead of Caboclo, I don’t really see how  he would have helped the Raptors beat the Cavs this year as apposed to Ross and/or Powell. Call me optimistic but I still believe that the Caboclo project can be accomplished. When fully developed he will hopefully be a Andrei Kirelenko type player.

He is basically a draft and stash type player, but instead of stashing him in a non English country they held his hand here in North America to ensure his development. I’m happy with the progress but waiting for the finished product.

 

 

 

[Anton123Participant]

Hey, OhCanada, as you are a Raptors fan, I was wondering what do you think about Toronto’s decision to select Bruno and bring him over right away instead of stashing him overseas for a couple years?

He still doesn’t seem NBA ready and he just has two years left on his rookie contract. If he develops by his fourth year, they will have to throw good money at him very soon. 

Are you happy with the decision as a fan or do you think it was a bad decision?

 

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