[valentine]

 I just saw an interview with Jay Bilas, who I guess is the main NCAA guru at ESPN.

He said Simmons is the best prospect since Lebron. 

Is he usually the kind of Analyst to jump on the hype train? I didn’t think he was.

He said there were a couple of others (eg Durant) and Im assuming he meant Oden and Davis as well…

Do you agree with Bilas? As in the best since Lebron?

 

 

 

 

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 No, ben can really play, will probably do great in college, but he has one thing that is a glaring problem, what will be his position in the NBA. Ben has got to get a lot stronger if he wants to not get exposed by a NBA post 4, like a Lamarcus or z-bo to make up for not being the longest. And he has to work on his jumper and perimeter D if he has to play the 3. 

He will more than likely be a great NBA player, but in terms of prospects, there were guys like Wiggins, davis, Rose, KD… I just don’t see him as a top 10 since Bron, probably top 20 prospect.

[Sand]

Dont want to come across rude here.. but Im going to call you out on him not being strong or big enough to go with NBA PF’s because I believe this is a blatantly wrong statement.

Gotta unfog your glasses…and remember that most 19 year olds can put on at least 10-20 lbs.

These seem like pretty obvious things to me…tell me if Im out of line here. 

But saying that would be as plainly wrong as saying AD has sub-par wingspan or Wiggins isnt athletic enough.

The only way you could come to that conclusion is if you have never seen him…or are younger than 19 and not realised that you still grow (A lot…even in 12-24mths)

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 The thing about AD and Wiggins is they each got a physical tool that is elite before they even stepped on a ncaa court. Davis has his length, Wiggins has his bounce… I don’t see what Ben got physically. I’m sure he can get stronger and maybe he might grow a few inches, but at this moment it’s not there yet. I’m not calling bust but im not super impressed from him at a physical standpoint for a future NBA forward. 

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 The thing about AD and Wiggins is they each got a physical tool that is elite before they even stepped on a ncaa court. Davis has his length, Wiggins has his bounce… I don’t see what Ben got physically. I’m sure he can get stronger and maybe he might grow a few inches, but at this moment it’s not there yet. I’m not calling bust but im not super impressed from him at a physical standpoint for a future NBA forward. 

[Sand]

Dont want to come across rude here.. but Im going to call you out on him not being strong or big enough to go with NBA PF’s because I believe this is a blatantly wrong statement.

Gotta unfog your glasses…and remember that most 19 year olds can put on at least 10-20 lbs.

These seem like pretty obvious things to me…tell me if Im out of line here. 

But saying that would be as plainly wrong as saying AD has sub-par wingspan or Wiggins isnt athletic enough.

The only way you could come to that conclusion is if you have never seen him…or are younger than 19 and not realised that you still grow (A lot…even in 12-24mths)

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 No, ben can really play, will probably do great in college, but he has one thing that is a glaring problem, what will be his position in the NBA. Ben has got to get a lot stronger if he wants to not get exposed by a NBA post 4, like a Lamarcus or z-bo to make up for not being the longest. And he has to work on his jumper and perimeter D if he has to play the 3. 

He will more than likely be a great NBA player, but in terms of prospects, there were guys like Wiggins, davis, Rose, KD… I just don’t see him as a top 10 since Bron, probably top 20 prospect.

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

 He’s not the type of guy that jumps on the hype train but trys to start his own hype train. Bilas is not someone I look to when it comes to predicting how college players are going to translate to the NBA especially when they haven’t played a game in college yet. This is not a knock on Simmons at all I’m just not a huge Bilas fan. 

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

 He’s not the type of guy that jumps on the hype train but trys to start his own hype train. Bilas is not someone I look to when it comes to predicting how college players are going to translate to the NBA especially when they haven’t played a game in college yet. This is not a knock on Simmons at all I’m just not a huge Bilas fan. 

[BEARDED-DRAGONParticipant]

 agree. im not saying he will be as good as lebron. but i think if you look at kevin durant, wiggins, davis, d. rose, when they were heading into college like he is now, i think he has just as much potential as any of them did. none of them are the same type of player, they all had different strengths and weaknesses. hes not a complete player. but hes as good a ‘prospect’ as any of them in my opinion. i might not say better, but as good as any.

[BEARDED-DRAGONParticipant]

 agree. im not saying he will be as good as lebron. but i think if you look at kevin durant, wiggins, davis, d. rose, when they were heading into college like he is now, i think he has just as much potential as any of them did. none of them are the same type of player, they all had different strengths and weaknesses. hes not a complete player. but hes as good a ‘prospect’ as any of them in my opinion. i might not say better, but as good as any.

[IlladelphParticipant]

 The only thing that is comparable to Lebron James when it comes to Ben Simmons is the hype that this kid is getting.  This is just crazy.  Best prospect since Lebron?  Lol.  I would have liked to see the interview so that I could understand what Jay Bilas meant.  Simmons and Lebron are pretty different players.

Every year the great media hype train gets behind a player and everyone just jumps aboard like well-trained dogs.  A couple of years ago it was Andrew Wiggins.  Last year it was Jahlil Okafor.  Now this year I guess it’s gonna be Ben Simmons.  I wonder who next year’s comparison is going to be.  After using Lebron, I’m not sure the media can find anyone more hyped.

What will be interesting is to see how Ben Simmons performs at LSU.  Unlike Wiggins at Kansas, or Okafor at Duke, where the players were sold on the team first concept, from everything I’ve seen and read LSU has sold Ben Simmons on being "the man" for the Tigers.  Have you guys checked out the advertising campaign that LSU has rolled out for Ben Simmons and the LSU bball program?  He must deliver a Lebron-like performance every night or the same people who are hyping him now will be calling him a bust later.  

My prediction?  He will have a decent year, and LSU will be an early exit in the tournament.  Thenin the 2016 draft, Simmons will be a top 7 pick.  He won’t be #1.

[T Rex]

 Tell me about how Simmons and LeBron are so freaking different.

Non-hipsters want to know.

 

 

 

[T Rex]

 Tell me about how Simmons and LeBron are so freaking different.

Non-hipsters want to know.

 

 

 

[IlladelphParticipant]

 The only thing that is comparable to Lebron James when it comes to Ben Simmons is the hype that this kid is getting.  This is just crazy.  Best prospect since Lebron?  Lol.  I would have liked to see the interview so that I could understand what Jay Bilas meant.  Simmons and Lebron are pretty different players.

Every year the great media hype train gets behind a player and everyone just jumps aboard like well-trained dogs.  A couple of years ago it was Andrew Wiggins.  Last year it was Jahlil Okafor.  Now this year I guess it’s gonna be Ben Simmons.  I wonder who next year’s comparison is going to be.  After using Lebron, I’m not sure the media can find anyone more hyped.

What will be interesting is to see how Ben Simmons performs at LSU.  Unlike Wiggins at Kansas, or Okafor at Duke, where the players were sold on the team first concept, from everything I’ve seen and read LSU has sold Ben Simmons on being "the man" for the Tigers.  Have you guys checked out the advertising campaign that LSU has rolled out for Ben Simmons and the LSU bball program?  He must deliver a Lebron-like performance every night or the same people who are hyping him now will be calling him a bust later.  

My prediction?  He will have a decent year, and LSU will be an early exit in the tournament.  Thenin the 2016 draft, Simmons will be a top 7 pick.  He won’t be #1.

[DrivingDownTheStreetinmy64]

Jay Bilas Sucks!!! 

[DrivingDownTheStreetinmy64]

Jay Bilas Sucks!!! 

[NJHooper95Participant]

 I don’t know about best prospect since but they are definitely similar as far as skill set. Both were terrific passers coming out of high school, neither could shoot, Lebron jumper is still suspect now, Simmons maybe a better ball handler at this point, Lebron of course had the size and strength advantage. Simmons will be a good player, but best prospect since Lebron, not sure. I mean you have guys like wiggins, Oden, wall, Durant, Beasley, and this is only based on high school dominance. 

I need to do a separate post about people making stupid comments about nba comparisons. For instance, if a scout says a player reminds them of Scottie pippen,  he is not talking about the finished product.

[T Rex]

 No, it’s not just based on high school dominance, it’s based on his dominant combination of physical tools and talent/skill level.

Jabari is a short fat PF. Mini-Lee.

Wiggins is a physically weak SG with DeRozen upside at the very best.

Beasley was always a 6’8 tweener. 

Simmons is 6’10, and the total package phsically. Strong already, with a great frame to get to 260 eventually if he wanted to. Which is exactly what LeBron James weighs, except LeBron is 2" shorter. LeBron is obviously a superior athlete to Simmons, but Simmons has the frame and genetics to bulk up to 260 and retain his current athleticism. And that’s an elite combination, perhaps third only to LeBron and Blake.

And Simmons obviously has a higher skill level than most any bigger guys since LeBron. 

So I think Bilas is right on here, pretty much pointing out the obvious.

 

 

[T Rex]

 No, it’s not just based on high school dominance, it’s based on his dominant combination of physical tools and talent/skill level.

Jabari is a short fat PF. Mini-Lee.

Wiggins is a physically weak SG with DeRozen upside at the very best.

Beasley was always a 6’8 tweener. 

Simmons is 6’10, and the total package phsically. Strong already, with a great frame to get to 260 eventually if he wanted to. Which is exactly what LeBron James weighs, except LeBron is 2" shorter. LeBron is obviously a superior athlete to Simmons, but Simmons has the frame and genetics to bulk up to 260 and retain his current athleticism. And that’s an elite combination, perhaps third only to LeBron and Blake.

And Simmons obviously has a higher skill level than most any bigger guys since LeBron. 

So I think Bilas is right on here, pretty much pointing out the obvious.

 

 

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 Well it seems like people are forgetting LeBron is one of the greatest athletes, ever. That’s a big part of his game. Ben is a decent athlete.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 Well it seems like people are forgetting LeBron is one of the greatest athletes, ever. That’s a big part of his game. Ben is a decent athlete.

[NJHooper95Participant]

 I don’t know about best prospect since but they are definitely similar as far as skill set. Both were terrific passers coming out of high school, neither could shoot, Lebron jumper is still suspect now, Simmons maybe a better ball handler at this point, Lebron of course had the size and strength advantage. Simmons will be a good player, but best prospect since Lebron, not sure. I mean you have guys like wiggins, Oden, wall, Durant, Beasley, and this is only based on high school dominance. 

I need to do a separate post about people making stupid comments about nba comparisons. For instance, if a scout says a player reminds them of Scottie pippen,  he is not talking about the finished product.

[T Rex]

 You guys all went gaga over Wiggins and Parker, way out of line with their actual talent.

Now we have an actual legendary talent, and you guys just don’t see it. Not enough dunks and SLAM covers, or whatever.

Kid’s barely 19 and already weighs 230-240, and you guys want to act like he’s nowhere near being able to handle LaMarcus Aldridge’s b!tch ass.

Meanwhile, Wiggins at 198 soaking wet is somehow obviously strong enough, and already an awesome defender against NBA SFs. What a joke. Wiggins is nowhere near strong enough to defend most SFs, and sucks at it right now. And the future isn’t looking super bright, because he has a Rip Hamilton rail thin bone structure.

He’s a tall SG with a shaky jump shot, no ability to embrace contact and take a beating, and an overrated defender who gets pushed around by even SGs.

Ben Simmons has it all, and won’t get too fat like Jabari, Sullinger, and Big Baby Davis.

6’10" 240 lb 19 year old not nearly strong enough to deal with LaMarcus? Lol, why don’t you wait 12 months, and he’ll be 250 lbs of muscle.

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ZachAttackParticipant]

 T Rex, let me introduce to you, Andrew Wiggins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch

He posterized a 256 lb Omer Asik, 225 lb Josh Smith, and a 237 lb Rudy Gobert, twice. All three jumped up to block him, and he powered through all of them in their separate plays. He’s got muscle and he’s tough enough to compete against these big NBA guys. You just like to down size all the good rookies and blow up your Celtics team as if they’re the 90’s Bulls. Guys like Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, and D’Angelo Russel are all going to be good. Actually the first two are good. The only reason I can’t say anything about Russel is because no one can, he hasn’t played a single game. I mean, Jabari Parker a smaller David Lee? That’s ridiculous on a whole new level.

[ZachAttackParticipant]

 T Rex, let me introduce to you, Andrew Wiggins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch

He posterized a 256 lb Omer Asik, 225 lb Josh Smith, and a 237 lb Rudy Gobert, twice. All three jumped up to block him, and he powered through all of them in their separate plays. He’s got muscle and he’s tough enough to compete against these big NBA guys. You just like to down size all the good rookies and blow up your Celtics team as if they’re the 90’s Bulls. Guys like Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, and D’Angelo Russel are all going to be good. Actually the first two are good. The only reason I can’t say anything about Russel is because no one can, he hasn’t played a single game. I mean, Jabari Parker a smaller David Lee? That’s ridiculous on a whole new level.

[T Rex]

 You guys all went gaga over Wiggins and Parker, way out of line with their actual talent.

Now we have an actual legendary talent, and you guys just don’t see it. Not enough dunks and SLAM covers, or whatever.

Kid’s barely 19 and already weighs 230-240, and you guys want to act like he’s nowhere near being able to handle LaMarcus Aldridge’s b!tch ass.

Meanwhile, Wiggins at 198 soaking wet is somehow obviously strong enough, and already an awesome defender against NBA SFs. What a joke. Wiggins is nowhere near strong enough to defend most SFs, and sucks at it right now. And the future isn’t looking super bright, because he has a Rip Hamilton rail thin bone structure.

He’s a tall SG with a shaky jump shot, no ability to embrace contact and take a beating, and an overrated defender who gets pushed around by even SGs.

Ben Simmons has it all, and won’t get too fat like Jabari, Sullinger, and Big Baby Davis.

6’10" 240 lb 19 year old not nearly strong enough to deal with LaMarcus? Lol, why don’t you wait 12 months, and he’ll be 250 lbs of muscle.

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JR RyderParticipant]

Greg Oden was the best prospect since Lebron James. You would have to be extremely special to be drafted ahead of Kevin Durant, and Oden was that.

But as far as Wiggins vs Simmons at the same stage, I like Simmons,more due to his size and more advance skillset.

[T Rex]

 Oden was overhyped. He was never naturally coordinated. If he was, he would have had a much better comeback, even if he was an active alcoholic like a lot of other guys.

 

 

[ZouldiersParticipant]

 Oden was hyped as the next Bill Russell. There’s a reason why he was drafted over Durant. He was really that good until those glass knees betrayed him.

[T Rex]

 There’s a reason Anthony Bennett was drafted #1, it didn’t make him an obvious Brandon Bass clone at best.

Oden was a better prospect than Bennett, of course, and a top prospect in that draft, but a lot of it was just the blind leading the blind. Even Sebastian Telfair and OJ Mayo were elite prospects by the Greg Oden standard. The hype standard.

It’s not like Oden was oozing intangibles and high iq. He wasn’t even oozing basic coordination.

Compare that to an Anthony Davis, with the confirmed skill and confirmed iq and confirmed intangibles.

But I’m the guy who compares Porzingis to KG, and Myles Turner at the same KG/Hakeem level.

Not only do those guys have elite measurables like Oden, but they actually have proven high skill levels, and high IQ’s as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ZachAttackParticipant]

 Brandon Bass is and will be better than a lot of people in that 2013 Draft Class. The only people I see coming out as possible all stars are Victor Oladipo, the Greek Freak, and Rudy Gobert. Brandon Bass was no all star but besides those 3 listed before, he’s probably better than the whole class. So him being drafted #1 overall isn’t so bad. I’m not defending Anthony Bennett in any way, but compared to those other guys, even if they were thinking he was going to be a Brandon Bass type player, that wouldn’t be too bad in that class.

[ZachAttackParticipant]

 Brandon Bass is and will be better than a lot of people in that 2013 Draft Class. The only people I see coming out as possible all stars are Victor Oladipo, the Greek Freak, and Rudy Gobert. Brandon Bass was no all star but besides those 3 listed before, he’s probably better than the whole class. So him being drafted #1 overall isn’t so bad. I’m not defending Anthony Bennett in any way, but compared to those other guys, even if they were thinking he was going to be a Brandon Bass type player, that wouldn’t be too bad in that class.

[T Rex]

 You were 12 years old during the 2013 draft.

And in your young, inexperienced mind, any non-superstar = Brandon Bass, obviously.

Brandon Bass level player drafted #1? Nothing to see there, you tell us.

Thanks for the "insights".

Why don’t you tell us about the 2011 draft, when you wore spiderman pjs to bed.

Or just speak about that which you actually know.

Try 2014-present

 

[T Rex]

 You were 12 years old during the 2013 draft.

And in your young, inexperienced mind, any non-superstar = Brandon Bass, obviously.

Brandon Bass level player drafted #1? Nothing to see there, you tell us.

Thanks for the "insights".

Why don’t you tell us about the 2011 draft, when you wore spiderman pjs to bed.

Or just speak about that which you actually know.

Try 2014-present

 

[T Rex]

 Zach, note your lack of nuance between Brandon Bass level and All Star level. It’s like if a player doesn’t look like an all star, they must be Brandon Bass, a borderline starter who is paid like one.

Borderline starter – ? – All Star.

Try to develop that nuanced thinking, so you can see at least two-three shades of gray in between, like "average starter", "above average starter", "borderline-all star", then "all star".

Because if you just put prospects into one of a couple narrow, rigid boxes, you won’t develop as a talent evaluator, you’ll overrate a lot of flashy "all show, no go" players like D Russell, and you’ll end up sleeping on a lot "above average starter" type guys.

 

 

 

[T Rex]

 Zach, note your lack of nuance between Brandon Bass level and All Star level. It’s like if a player doesn’t look like an all star, they must be Brandon Bass, a borderline starter who is paid like one.

Borderline starter – ? – All Star.

Try to develop that nuanced thinking, so you can see at least two-three shades of gray in between, like "average starter", "above average starter", "borderline-all star", then "all star".

Because if you just put prospects into one of a couple narrow, rigid boxes, you won’t develop as a talent evaluator, you’ll overrate a lot of flashy "all show, no go" players like D Russell, and you’ll end up sleeping on a lot "above average starter" type guys.

 

 

 

[ZachAttackParticipant]

 I hope that what you’re saying is that I don’t think that Porzingis or Turner are going to be good. Because I was hoping that the Jazz would either trade up for Porzingis or else pick Turner. I believe that they will both be great players. Also, what I was saying was that the 2013 Draft class was very weak. If you got a Brandon Bass type of player in the draft, then you should’ve been walking out happy. The only reason I talked about Bass is because YOU were the one that brought it up saying that he and Bennett were a clone. And also, would you quit bringing up my age. My heck, I get treated like a 3 year old on here when I guarantee you, I knew more about basketball when I was 12 then you did then, and now.

[ZachAttackParticipant]

 I hope that what you’re saying is that I don’t think that Porzingis or Turner are going to be good. Because I was hoping that the Jazz would either trade up for Porzingis or else pick Turner. I believe that they will both be great players. Also, what I was saying was that the 2013 Draft class was very weak. If you got a Brandon Bass type of player in the draft, then you should’ve been walking out happy. The only reason I talked about Bass is because YOU were the one that brought it up saying that he and Bennett were a clone. And also, would you quit bringing up my age. My heck, I get treated like a 3 year old on here when I guarantee you, I knew more about basketball when I was 12 then you did then, and now.

[T Rex]

 you lost me at "and now".

You’re obviously still not appreciating how deep the 2013 draft was. Tons of guys that are better than Brandon Bass. Is that your impression of that draft? You think it’s no big deal to find a Rudy Gobert just sitting there at the end of the first round? 

You think getting a Mason Plumlee or a Gorgui Dieng isn’t better than a Brandon Bass? 

That draft was deep, and there were 12-20 guys who were better prospects/players than Bass.

You’re probably just bitter because the Jazz drafted Trey Burke over a Bunch of good/great players.

I guess you got a Brandon Bass player afterall, lol.

 

[T Rex]

 you lost me at "and now".

You’re obviously still not appreciating how deep the 2013 draft was. Tons of guys that are better than Brandon Bass. Is that your impression of that draft? You think it’s no big deal to find a Rudy Gobert just sitting there at the end of the first round? 

You think getting a Mason Plumlee or a Gorgui Dieng isn’t better than a Brandon Bass? 

That draft was deep, and there were 12-20 guys who were better prospects/players than Bass.

You’re probably just bitter because the Jazz drafted Trey Burke over a Bunch of good/great players.

I guess you got a Brandon Bass player afterall, lol.

 

[ZachAttackParticipant]

 Did you not read my first post, I specifically said that Gobert was better than Bass. I don’t think Plumlee’s as great as you think he is and Gorgui Dieng, really? I’m not saying Bass is anything good. But he was better than most of the talent that was in the 2013 Draft. 

Alright, maybe Plumlee is a little better than Bass, but Bass is better than Dieng.

Also, shouldn’t you be thinking that Bass is as good as Karl Malone? He was on the Celtics Man! Or did that comparison drop off since he left. Man, I hate bandwagoners.

 

[ZachAttackParticipant]

 Did you not read my first post, I specifically said that Gobert was better than Bass. I don’t think Plumlee’s as great as you think he is and Gorgui Dieng, really? I’m not saying Bass is anything good. But he was better than most of the talent that was in the 2013 Draft. 

Alright, maybe Plumlee is a little better than Bass, but Bass is better than Dieng.

Also, shouldn’t you be thinking that Bass is as good as Karl Malone? He was on the Celtics Man! Or did that comparison drop off since he left. Man, I hate bandwagoners.

 

[BEARDED-DRAGONParticipant]

 yeah, oden had the confirmed skill on the defensive end. he was an elite shot blocker with a nba ready body. he was better on the defensive end than anthony davis (atleast going into college he was better). and compared to myles turner and porzingis? thats a joke. oden in the 2015 draft most likely would have gone first, well ahead of those guys. infact odens ohio state against towns in kentucky, kaminsky in wisconson, and okafor in duke would have gone down as probably one of the greatest bigman final four ever. he would have locked all those elite offensive centers up. at that point (college), he wasnt elite on the offensive end himself, but had the potential to be on dwight howards level atleast.

[BEARDED-DRAGONParticipant]

 yeah, oden had the confirmed skill on the defensive end. he was an elite shot blocker with a nba ready body. he was better on the defensive end than anthony davis (atleast going into college he was better). and compared to myles turner and porzingis? thats a joke. oden in the 2015 draft most likely would have gone first, well ahead of those guys. infact odens ohio state against towns in kentucky, kaminsky in wisconson, and okafor in duke would have gone down as probably one of the greatest bigman final four ever. he would have locked all those elite offensive centers up. at that point (college), he wasnt elite on the offensive end himself, but had the potential to be on dwight howards level atleast.

[T Rex]

Myles Turner was actually pretty well hyped last year, justifiably so. Then Gait-Gate scandal kicked in, which was second in Big News Stories only to news that Steph Curry Chews Mouthguard in NBA 2K16.

Now he’s about to dominate the NBA and people have just gone quiet, like a little kid who knows they did something wrong and Daddy is coming to punish them.

Myles "Davis" Turner is all ya’lls daddy.

 

 

[T Rex]

Myles Turner was actually pretty well hyped last year, justifiably so. Then Gait-Gate scandal kicked in, which was second in Big News Stories only to news that Steph Curry Chews Mouthguard in NBA 2K16.

Now he’s about to dominate the NBA and people have just gone quiet, like a little kid who knows they did something wrong and Daddy is coming to punish them.

Myles "Davis" Turner is all ya’lls daddy.

 

 

[T Rex]

 There’s a reason Anthony Bennett was drafted #1, it didn’t make him an obvious Brandon Bass clone at best.

Oden was a better prospect than Bennett, of course, and a top prospect in that draft, but a lot of it was just the blind leading the blind. Even Sebastian Telfair and OJ Mayo were elite prospects by the Greg Oden standard. The hype standard.

It’s not like Oden was oozing intangibles and high iq. He wasn’t even oozing basic coordination.

Compare that to an Anthony Davis, with the confirmed skill and confirmed iq and confirmed intangibles.

But I’m the guy who compares Porzingis to KG, and Myles Turner at the same KG/Hakeem level.

Not only do those guys have elite measurables like Oden, but they actually have proven high skill levels, and high IQ’s as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ZouldiersParticipant]

 Oden was hyped as the next Bill Russell. There’s a reason why he was drafted over Durant. He was really that good until those glass knees betrayed him.

[ballislyfe25Participant]

Oden was absolutely coordinated and many people forgot that he played his freshman season at Ohio State with a broken right wrist, using his left hand for the whole season. Very impressive.

[T Rex]

 And he’s never shown any evidence of being more coordinated than he was with his left hand.

By "impressive" you mean surprisingly mediocre. Let’s face it, he’d still have had a solid NBA career, even an abreviated one, continuing to this day, if he was actually coordinated.

What’s his excuse now for being such a clutz? Was he coordinated in Miami?

Is he coordinated in China?

‘He played without his good hand, let’s just assume he’s awesome with it. Why not?’

 

 

 

 

 

[ballislyfe25Participant]

Suprisingly mediocre as in leading his team to the NCAA title game where he posted a 25p-12r-4b game against a frontline featuring Al Horford, Joakim Noah, Corey Brewer and Marresse Speights? Averaging 15-10-3 with the wrist on his strong hand broken? 

By the time he reached Miami he had been a shell of himself for years. The fact that he was even able to continue a professional basketball career, let alone one in the NBA, is impressive. 

[joecheck88Participant]

 I had to come out of hibernation to agree with you on this. Greg Oden may have been a better prospect than Lebron especially at that time where we were not quite at the time where small ball was a thing. We had Phoenix who couldn’t beat the Spurs at the time to get over the hump. 

What Greg Oden in my mind was a clear #1 pick and let’s not act like there weren’t questions about Durants ability to be elite at the NBA level with his frame. Greg Oden was a sure pick as any and the only thing that could stop him actually did. It was injuries and hindsight is 20/20 but there were very few things that could’ve predicted his knees would be as bad they were/are. He may never have made it to a Shaq type level but may have been close. We won’t ever know but he would’ve been a better version of pre back injury Dwight Howard and would’ve won multiple DPOY and anchored a defense for 15 years. 

[joecheck88Participant]

 I had to come out of hibernation to agree with you on this. Greg Oden may have been a better prospect than Lebron especially at that time where we were not quite at the time where small ball was a thing. We had Phoenix who couldn’t beat the Spurs at the time to get over the hump. 

What Greg Oden in my mind was a clear #1 pick and let’s not act like there weren’t questions about Durants ability to be elite at the NBA level with his frame. Greg Oden was a sure pick as any and the only thing that could stop him actually did. It was injuries and hindsight is 20/20 but there were very few things that could’ve predicted his knees would be as bad they were/are. He may never have made it to a Shaq type level but may have been close. We won’t ever know but he would’ve been a better version of pre back injury Dwight Howard and would’ve won multiple DPOY and anchored a defense for 15 years. 

[ballislyfe25Participant]

Suprisingly mediocre as in leading his team to the NCAA title game where he posted a 25p-12r-4b game against a frontline featuring Al Horford, Joakim Noah, Corey Brewer and Marresse Speights? Averaging 15-10-3 with the wrist on his strong hand broken? 

By the time he reached Miami he had been a shell of himself for years. The fact that he was even able to continue a professional basketball career, let alone one in the NBA, is impressive. 

[T Rex]

 And he’s never shown any evidence of being more coordinated than he was with his left hand.

By "impressive" you mean surprisingly mediocre. Let’s face it, he’d still have had a solid NBA career, even an abreviated one, continuing to this day, if he was actually coordinated.

What’s his excuse now for being such a clutz? Was he coordinated in Miami?

Is he coordinated in China?

‘He played without his good hand, let’s just assume he’s awesome with it. Why not?’

 

 

 

 

 

[ballislyfe25Participant]

Oden was absolutely coordinated and many people forgot that he played his freshman season at Ohio State with a broken right wrist, using his left hand for the whole season. Very impressive.

[T Rex]

 Oden was overhyped. He was never naturally coordinated. If he was, he would have had a much better comeback, even if he was an active alcoholic like a lot of other guys.

 

 

[JR RyderParticipant]

Greg Oden was the best prospect since Lebron James. You would have to be extremely special to be drafted ahead of Kevin Durant, and Oden was that.

But as far as Wiggins vs Simmons at the same stage, I like Simmons,more due to his size and more advance skillset.

[thparadoxParticipant]

Best prospects since Lebron, (my personal list, trying to not use hindsight bias):

1. Greg Oden

2. Anthony Davis

3. Kevin Durant

????? Ben Simmons ?????

4. John Wall

5. Derrick Rose

6. Blake Griffin

… I think that’s where the first tier would end on my list (Wiggins is probably next). You can slot Ben Simmons wherever you want on that tier and it’s still pretty amazing.

 

 

 

 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 I would actually include Michael Beasley on this list as well. He looked like a can’t miss superstar coming out of high school and his one college season was arguably more impressive than Durant’s. A lot of people (myself included) thought he was the best prospect and should have went number one overall in 2008. 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 I would actually include Michael Beasley on this list as well. He looked like a can’t miss superstar coming out of high school and his one college season was arguably more impressive than Durant’s. A lot of people (myself included) thought he was the best prospect and should have went number one overall in 2008. 

[thricethefunParticipant]

Coming out of high school Anthony Davis wasn’t rated as an all time great prospect. He was #1 of his class coming in and he did improve his stock in college but even coming into the NBA a lot of people were comparing him to Marcus Camby. Wiggins was the 2nd most hyped prospect coming out of high school behind Oden. 

[thparadoxParticipant]

Rated by who? Remember, I said it was personal list.

I saw Anthony Davis as an equivalent to KG, with low risk of getting there.

Michael Beasley was a great college player, but I had concerns about his defense at the time. I am shocked that he has busted so hard, like almost everyone. He would have been a bit lower down my list below Wiggins / Kyrie Irving etc. Maybe in the Cousins / Harden region.

Blake Griffin proved in college that he was a beast. He looked like a Charles Barkley / Karl Malone mix. He is much more skilled than people will give him credit for: dribbling, passing, finishing at the rim, ability to take contact, body control on driving moves, etc. He also looked like he would be one of the top 10 rebounders in the league from day 1. His lower upside on defense is why he’s only #6.

[thparadoxParticipant]

Rated by who? Remember, I said it was personal list.

I saw Anthony Davis as an equivalent to KG, with low risk of getting there.

Michael Beasley was a great college player, but I had concerns about his defense at the time. I am shocked that he has busted so hard, like almost everyone. He would have been a bit lower down my list below Wiggins / Kyrie Irving etc. Maybe in the Cousins / Harden region.

Blake Griffin proved in college that he was a beast. He looked like a Charles Barkley / Karl Malone mix. He is much more skilled than people will give him credit for: dribbling, passing, finishing at the rim, ability to take contact, body control on driving moves, etc. He also looked like he would be one of the top 10 rebounders in the league from day 1. His lower upside on defense is why he’s only #6.

[thricethefunParticipant]

Coming out of high school Anthony Davis wasn’t rated as an all time great prospect. He was #1 of his class coming in and he did improve his stock in college but even coming into the NBA a lot of people were comparing him to Marcus Camby. Wiggins was the 2nd most hyped prospect coming out of high school behind Oden. 

[JR RyderParticipant]

How can you have Blake Griffin in top 6 when he was rated behind Derrick Rose, Michael Beasley, Eric Gordon and even OJ Mayo in high school?

[JR RyderParticipant]

How can you have Blake Griffin in top 6 when he was rated behind Derrick Rose, Michael Beasley, Eric Gordon and even OJ Mayo in high school?

[MopgrassParticipant]

 I totally agree with your 1-2-3. Maybe your 4-5-6. Simmons looks like a future all-star. I agree. But for me, I need to see a handful of college games to really know who he is. Superior athletes like LeBron are so much easier to project. Not being a superior athlete gives a player a few things to overcome. I also can’t write off the idea that one of the other top players amazes us all and gets picked 1st instead. It isn’t likely, but I need to see a few college games before I anoint the next greatest prospect. 

[MopgrassParticipant]

 I totally agree with your 1-2-3. Maybe your 4-5-6. Simmons looks like a future all-star. I agree. But for me, I need to see a handful of college games to really know who he is. Superior athletes like LeBron are so much easier to project. Not being a superior athlete gives a player a few things to overcome. I also can’t write off the idea that one of the other top players amazes us all and gets picked 1st instead. It isn’t likely, but I need to see a few college games before I anoint the next greatest prospect. 

[T Rex]

It wasn’t LeBron’s athleticism that made it so easy to identify him as a future superstar. It was his skill level and feel for the game at that size/strength. There was nothing ordinary about LeBron’s feel for the game and skill level for a guy that big.

There have been many athletes in roughly the same level as 17-18 year old LeBron. It didn’t mark them as clear cut NBA stars. Think LeBryan Nash, or North Texas’ Tony Mitchell. Many, many more I’m sure.

Same goes for Ben Simmons, it’s his sky high skill level and feel for the game that sets him apart as a prospect.

The kid looks like Magic Johnson plus 3" height, and 15 lbs muscle. Simmons probably isn’t as spectacular a passer as Magic, and probably doesn’t possess the same intangibles/leadership, but at 3" taller and stronger already, he can get away with it.

Same goes for Blake Griffin. His athleticism is awesome, but it’s really his high skill level and great feel for the game that makes him a superstar, not his athleticism.

If athleticism was the be all end all, WCS would have been drafted #1 over Towns.

Skill + feel + size + even mediocre athleticism = top prospect.

Skill + feel minus size minus athleticism = D’Angelo Russell, bust.

There are plenty of high skill + great feel players in high school and college at all levels. The problem is they aren’t 6’8"+, and if they are, they probably move like Mike Muscala.

Simmons athleticism is practically unheard of for a guy that size with that skill level and feel for the game. Only Blake and LeBron come to mind as better athletes with similar size/skill/feel.

And Simmons looks like he has much better agility/lateral quickness than Blake. That’s an extremely important and often overlooked, and unspectacular form of athleticism that makes a huge difference in allowing playmaking/passing skills to dominate games.

 

 

 

[T Rex]

It wasn’t LeBron’s athleticism that made it so easy to identify him as a future superstar. It was his skill level and feel for the game at that size/strength. There was nothing ordinary about LeBron’s feel for the game and skill level for a guy that big.

There have been many athletes in roughly the same level as 17-18 year old LeBron. It didn’t mark them as clear cut NBA stars. Think LeBryan Nash, or North Texas’ Tony Mitchell. Many, many more I’m sure.

Same goes for Ben Simmons, it’s his sky high skill level and feel for the game that sets him apart as a prospect.

The kid looks like Magic Johnson plus 3" height, and 15 lbs muscle. Simmons probably isn’t as spectacular a passer as Magic, and probably doesn’t possess the same intangibles/leadership, but at 3" taller and stronger already, he can get away with it.

Same goes for Blake Griffin. His athleticism is awesome, but it’s really his high skill level and great feel for the game that makes him a superstar, not his athleticism.

If athleticism was the be all end all, WCS would have been drafted #1 over Towns.

Skill + feel + size + even mediocre athleticism = top prospect.

Skill + feel minus size minus athleticism = D’Angelo Russell, bust.

There are plenty of high skill + great feel players in high school and college at all levels. The problem is they aren’t 6’8"+, and if they are, they probably move like Mike Muscala.

Simmons athleticism is practically unheard of for a guy that size with that skill level and feel for the game. Only Blake and LeBron come to mind as better athletes with similar size/skill/feel.

And Simmons looks like he has much better agility/lateral quickness than Blake. That’s an extremely important and often overlooked, and unspectacular form of athleticism that makes a huge difference in allowing playmaking/passing skills to dominate games.

 

 

 

[MopgrassParticipant]

Sorry, but of course it was easier to spot LeBron’s abilities because he’s one of the best overall athletes we’ve ever seen. That athletism made him less likely to flop. Simmons might have better passing ability than anyone else who’s 6’10" and maybe a better feel for the game (whatever that entails) but there are guys who are stronger and quicker. Point being, he has more to fight through than LeBron. 

[MopgrassParticipant]

Sorry, but of course it was easier to spot LeBron’s abilities because he’s one of the best overall athletes we’ve ever seen. That athletism made him less likely to flop. Simmons might have better passing ability than anyone else who’s 6’10" and maybe a better feel for the game (whatever that entails) but there are guys who are stronger and quicker. Point being, he has more to fight through than LeBron. 

[thparadoxParticipant]

Best prospects since Lebron, (my personal list, trying to not use hindsight bias):

1. Greg Oden

2. Anthony Davis

3. Kevin Durant

????? Ben Simmons ?????

4. John Wall

5. Derrick Rose

6. Blake Griffin

… I think that’s where the first tier would end on my list (Wiggins is probably next). You can slot Ben Simmons wherever you want on that tier and it’s still pretty amazing.

 

 

 

 

[DrivingDownTheStreetinmy64]

 Top 7??!!  U mean Top 3!!

[DrivingDownTheStreetinmy64]

 Top 7??!!  U mean Top 3!!

[NJHooper95Participant]

 OJ Mayo was consider the next generation star coming out, he was above Derrick rose in the same class.

[NJHooper95Participant]

 OJ Mayo was consider the next generation star coming out, he was above Derrick rose in the same class.

[IlladelphParticipant]

 It’s funny how guys like T-Rex pump up the hype on Ben Simmons and make the Lebron comaprison.  Every year there are guys that are supposed to be the next fill in the blank superstar.  Back in the 90s, it was "the next Jordan" hype.  I remember Jerry Stackhouse getting the Jordan comparison hype coming out of UNC.  That didn’t work out as planned.  How many times did I hear "the next Jordan" hype about guys?  

And now, it’s the next Lebron hype.  One thing I’ve learned watching basketball for 20+ years is that 99% of hype does not pan out.  But go ahead and jump on "the next LeBron" train…  In a couple of years you’ll be hyping someone else.

[IlladelphParticipant]

 It’s funny how guys like T-Rex pump up the hype on Ben Simmons and make the Lebron comaprison.  Every year there are guys that are supposed to be the next fill in the blank superstar.  Back in the 90s, it was "the next Jordan" hype.  I remember Jerry Stackhouse getting the Jordan comparison hype coming out of UNC.  That didn’t work out as planned.  How many times did I hear "the next Jordan" hype about guys?  

And now, it’s the next Lebron hype.  One thing I’ve learned watching basketball for 20+ years is that 99% of hype does not pan out.  But go ahead and jump on "the next LeBron" train…  In a couple of years you’ll be hyping someone else.

[T Rex]

 It’s clear you have zero faith in your own ability to evaluate talent.

So your stock answer makes a lot of sense. Just lump everybody together, and say "I doubt it" in each case, no matte what.

 

 

[T Rex]

 It’s clear you have zero faith in your own ability to evaluate talent.

So your stock answer makes a lot of sense. Just lump everybody together, and say "I doubt it" in each case, no matte what.

 

 

[T Rex]

 I remember at this time (September) of LeBron’s rookie year, almost every basketball magazine was throwing shade on LeBron’s ability to be an impact player as a rookie.

That all went out the window within two weeks of the regular season starting.

 

 

[T Rex]

 I remember at this time (September) of LeBron’s rookie year, almost every basketball magazine was throwing shade on LeBron’s ability to be an impact player as a rookie.

That all went out the window within two weeks of the regular season starting.

 

 

[T Rex]

 Here’s the Sporting News cover for their 2003-04 season preview. They didn’t even think LeBron would be good as a rookie

img.printstown.com/sportingnews/2003_10_20_LEBRON_JAMES_LARGE.JPG

 

[T Rex]

 Here’s the Sporting News cover for their 2003-04 season preview. They didn’t even think LeBron would be good as a rookie

img.printstown.com/sportingnews/2003_10_20_LEBRON_JAMES_LARGE.JPG

 

[T Rex]

 Here’s another Sporting News LeBron cover, from a few months before that one. 

Sporting News had a lot of hate for the young King

"Is LeBron Overrated?" img.printstown.com/sportingnews/2003_05_26_LEBRON_JAMES_SMALL.JPG

 

[T Rex]

 Here’s another Sporting News LeBron cover, from a few months before that one. 

Sporting News had a lot of hate for the young King

"Is LeBron Overrated?" img.printstown.com/sportingnews/2003_05_26_LEBRON_JAMES_SMALL.JPG

 

[IlladelphParticipant]

Your point is?  I’m not "throwing shade" on Ben Simmons.  Just because I’m not hopping on the T-Rex "Ben Simmons is the Next Lebron James" train doesn’t mean I think that he will not be a great NBA player.  I think that he will be a top pick next year, and he if he stays healthy then he will have a good career in the NBA.  

I am not ready to put my knee pads on like you T-Rex, and kneel down and say Ben Simmons is the next Lebron.  Get it?  Good.  Now, you are free to go back to your alternate reality where only your opinion is valid, and everyone else is a moron.  

[IlladelphParticipant]

Your point is?  I’m not "throwing shade" on Ben Simmons.  Just because I’m not hopping on the T-Rex "Ben Simmons is the Next Lebron James" train doesn’t mean I think that he will not be a great NBA player.  I think that he will be a top pick next year, and he if he stays healthy then he will have a good career in the NBA.  

I am not ready to put my knee pads on like you T-Rex, and kneel down and say Ben Simmons is the next Lebron.  Get it?  Good.  Now, you are free to go back to your alternate reality where only your opinion is valid, and everyone else is a moron.  

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

The next KD hype is crazy too. 

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

The next KD hype is crazy too. 

[HitsterParticipant]

 Looking back on the last decade or so since I started following the NBA again, Greg Oden was certainly the most hyped draft prospect before he had played college ball. D-Rose became a clear number 1 pick and a superstar during his college year but Mayo IMO was more hyped a year out.

Wiggins and Parker were also hugely hyped a year out more so than Davis but I don’t think they were quite so hyped as Kevin Durant was.

Ricky Rubio was also hugely hyped but there was uncertainty when he would declare/ come to the NBA.

John Wall was a clear number 1 pick all his year but I don’t put his hype as much as Oden, KD, Mayo, Parker and Wiggins.

Blake Griffin was a number 1 lock all the year before he declared but if he had declared in 2008, he may not have even gone top 5.

Joel Embiid had huge hype during his NCAA season perhaps as much as any big since Oden.

 

 

 

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 Looking back on the last decade or so since I started following the NBA again, Greg Oden was certainly the most hyped draft prospect before he had played college ball. D-Rose became a clear number 1 pick and a superstar during his college year but Mayo IMO was more hyped a year out.

Wiggins and Parker were also hugely hyped a year out more so than Davis but I don’t think they were quite so hyped as Kevin Durant was.

Ricky Rubio was also hugely hyped but there was uncertainty when he would declare/ come to the NBA.

John Wall was a clear number 1 pick all his year but I don’t put his hype as much as Oden, KD, Mayo, Parker and Wiggins.

Blake Griffin was a number 1 lock all the year before he declared but if he had declared in 2008, he may not have even gone top 5.

Joel Embiid had huge hype during his NCAA season perhaps as much as any big since Oden.

 

 

 

 

 

[T Rex]

 My memory could be off, but I think Wiggins was more hyped than Durant coming out of high school, mostly because of the exciting dunks.

[T Rex]

 My memory could be off, but I think Wiggins was more hyped than Durant coming out of high school, mostly because of the exciting dunks.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 I thought Jabari, Wiggins, and Julius Randle were super hyped.

D Rose was hyped up big time but I am in Memphis so that might skew things. Plus, he was a Coach Cal recruit and Memphis was a top notch program coming off back to back Elite 8’s.

If Ben Simmons had gone to Kentucky or Duke I think he would have more hype. I would compare the hype to OJ Mayo and Kevin Durant, guys who were way up there but went to non-Final Four type programs. Same with Michael Beasley I guess.  

Can we just say the most hyped LSU recruit since Shaq?

i think Skal was also super hyped, but, again, I am in Memphis and the controversy angle has something to do with it. Plus the fact that he signed with Coach Cal at Kentucky.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 I thought Jabari, Wiggins, and Julius Randle were super hyped.

D Rose was hyped up big time but I am in Memphis so that might skew things. Plus, he was a Coach Cal recruit and Memphis was a top notch program coming off back to back Elite 8’s.

If Ben Simmons had gone to Kentucky or Duke I think he would have more hype. I would compare the hype to OJ Mayo and Kevin Durant, guys who were way up there but went to non-Final Four type programs. Same with Michael Beasley I guess.  

Can we just say the most hyped LSU recruit since Shaq?

i think Skal was also super hyped, but, again, I am in Memphis and the controversy angle has something to do with it. Plus the fact that he signed with Coach Cal at Kentucky.

[HeroescantdieParticipant]

I think they have simmilar games, Point forwards that can setup teammates, but athletically Lebron is a freak, Ben simmons athleteism for his size is impressive but not on Lebron’s Level. KD and AD is way more better prospect that Ben simmons. But that’s my opinion. 

[HeroescantdieParticipant]

I think they have simmilar games, Point forwards that can setup teammates, but athletically Lebron is a freak, Ben simmons athleteism for his size is impressive but not on Lebron’s Level. KD and AD is way more better prospect that Ben simmons. But that’s my opinion. 

[Author]

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