[Scott42444Participant]

I haven’t seen this posted in awhile but I wanted to know which players you guys believe have all-star potential in the 3rd tier of prospects.  Of course, this is open to debate by many, but that is most likely the picks starting at the back end of the lottery until the early 20’s in a deep draft like this.  Once again, this is just MY opinion, but it appears to me that:

Tier 1:

Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, (maybe) Exum

Tier 2:

Exum (if he’s not Tier 1, but he’s probably leading the pack of Tier 2), Randle, Smart, Vonleh, Harris, Gordon, Saric, Ennis (maybe, based on him being a true PG prospect, although he should probably be Tier 3)

Tier 3:

This is the area I am most interested in.  It could technically be anyone left, but it’s usually guys that could go as high as 6 or 7 but could also slide into the mid-teens.  Doug McDermott is a guy with one elite NBA skill that could go 7th – 10th based on team need but could also slip out of the lottery.  I am a Bulls fan, who currently hold the 16th and 19th picks in the draft.  I am intrigued by guys like James Young, Rodney Hood, T.J. Warren, Kyle Anderson, P.J. Hairston, etc.  Guys who could bring some unique offensive skills to a TERRIBLE Bulls offense next season.  Of course, I also hope the Bulls trade up in the draft and get a guy they are SURE is a starter and potential all-star.  But would they want too?  Does that guy realistically exist within the Bulls reach (or any team picking at the end or just outside the lottery)?  Or, is it basically going for team fit once the 2nd Tier options are exhausted.  It seems like almost every year there are future all-stars that somehow slip to later in the draft, but of course with a deep pool of talent like the 2014 draft I feel there is more intrigue in the middle and late 1st round than there usually is.  Some of the guys in the 3rd Tier of this Draft could have slipped into the Top 5-7 of the 2013 Draft.  For a reminder, it went Bennett, Oladipo, Porter, Zeller, Len.  Gross.

Personally, I think that James Young has the potential to be a damn good player in the league someday.  At the beginning of the year, I thought that he was a bit overhyped coming into his freshman year at Kentucky and couldn’t really see what all the hype was about.  Over the course of the year he really stood out to me as a guy who is more NBA ready than his predecessor Archie Goodwin (last year’s 1 and Done Kentucky Freshman SG) and similar to Goodwin will be undervalued heading into the draft.  I also think Rodney Hood could be a 3rd option down the road on a championship team if he develops at the pace he is projected.  If he exceeds expectations he could be a great draft steal.  I am a fan of one of the most conservative franchises in the NBA.  It seems as though, as good of a job as Gar Forman and John Paxson are at grabbing value late in the 1st round, it also leads to a lot of BORING draft nights.  I can’t really hope for the Bulls to make an aggressive move in the draft so I guess I have to just hope that a future all-star falls into their lap.

Anyway, who do you guys think?  Am I stupid to think there can be any franchise cornerstones in the middle of this year’s 1st round?  As much as it makes me happy to watch the Pacers implode (not that my Bulls are doing much better against a damn good Washington team), they were able to put together a loaded team with nothing better than a #10 pick.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[samosasParticipant]

 Young is going to get benched several times until he finally listens, but he should end up being a good player.  Archie Goodwin was an athlete, but has zero finesse to his game.  Young has some finesse.  

[samosasParticipant]

 Young is going to get benched several times until he finally listens, but he should end up being a good player.  Archie Goodwin was an athlete, but has zero finesse to his game.  Young has some finesse.  

[barbabodomParticipant]

 From this 3rd tier I would take Dougie or Kyle Anderson over any other prospect (including Ennis and Harris)

[barbabodomParticipant]

 From this 3rd tier I would take Dougie or Kyle Anderson over any other prospect (including Ennis and Harris)

[Scott42444Participant]

 Is it terrible of me to INSTANTLY think of a comparison to either Adam Morrison and/or Kyle Korver when I think of McDermott.  Out of those 2, Korver is a good NBA player but he is a rotation player for sure (albeit one of the better rotation guys in the NBA and one of the best all-time 3 point shooters in an era where the 3 point FG is as important as it’s ever been).  That seems to be a pretty low ceiling when drafting in a VERY deep draft in the 8 – 16 range.  I hope I am wrong because I like Dougie.  Kyle Anderson is someone I like but I just don’t know how to compare him to anyone else so I have a harder time trying to place him in the NBA.  I look at Zach Lavine and I see a kid that fits the traditional skillset of an NBA wing player better, although production wise Kyle Anderson is off the charts more productive (although with one more year of college to reach that production).

[barbabodomParticipant]

I would take Korver with a top 12 pick in everyone of the last 14 drafts. Kyle has so much potential that is scary he could turn. But that´s a big if. Anyway, I would gamble drafting him, he is that guy who can make a GM looks like a genius

[barbabodomParticipant]

*Kyle Anderson has so much potential…

[barbabodomParticipant]

*Kyle Anderson has so much potential…

[barbabodomParticipant]

I would take Korver with a top 12 pick in everyone of the last 14 drafts. Kyle has so much potential that is scary he could turn. But that´s a big if. Anyway, I would gamble drafting him, he is that guy who can make a GM looks like a genius

[Scott42444Participant]

 Is it terrible of me to INSTANTLY think of a comparison to either Adam Morrison and/or Kyle Korver when I think of McDermott.  Out of those 2, Korver is a good NBA player but he is a rotation player for sure (albeit one of the better rotation guys in the NBA and one of the best all-time 3 point shooters in an era where the 3 point FG is as important as it’s ever been).  That seems to be a pretty low ceiling when drafting in a VERY deep draft in the 8 – 16 range.  I hope I am wrong because I like Dougie.  Kyle Anderson is someone I like but I just don’t know how to compare him to anyone else so I have a harder time trying to place him in the NBA.  I look at Zach Lavine and I see a kid that fits the traditional skillset of an NBA wing player better, although production wise Kyle Anderson is off the charts more productive (although with one more year of college to reach that production).

[HomerKangParticipant]

 Shabazz Napier could be that franchise cornerstone if he falls down to the "third tier" slots in this draft.  The biggest underrated player in this draft.  

I also have concerns about James Young.  He didn’t do anything special for me that a similar player in the league is doing.  Yeah, James Young will be another Nick Young,  at best. 

[HomerKangParticipant]

 Shabazz Napier could be that franchise cornerstone if he falls down to the "third tier" slots in this draft.  The biggest underrated player in this draft.  

I also have concerns about James Young.  He didn’t do anything special for me that a similar player in the league is doing.  Yeah, James Young will be another Nick Young,  at best. 

[Scott42444Participant]

 I don’t know if I am as sold on him as other people (Napier, that is).  I like what I see, but DJ Augustin was an undersized, fast, scoring PG that was a lottery pick (meaning teams were high on him coming out of college).  If we take away that fact that DJ was cut multiple times and focus on his recent resurgence with the Bulls, you can see why height/length matters so much in the NBA.  Heck, Game 1 of the Playoffs against the Wizards will show you the problem with the undersized PG in today’s NBA.  The Wizards kept their franchise PG John Wall on the bench because the 90 year old Andre Miller was just abusing DJ with his size.  I could see Isiah Thomas (Sacramento version, not the HOF Detroit one) with Shabazz, but I could also see him tearing up the D-League his first couple of seasons like Pierre Jackson. Pierre doesn’t have anywhere NEAR the credentials that Napier has (as you mentioned, 2 NCAA Championship rings) but he is just so much smaller that a lot of the guys he will be going up against.  Heck, the first 2 PG’s taken in the draft in 2014 will be 6’4" (Marcus Smart) and 6’6" (Dante Exum).  I just can’t jump on board that Shabazz Napier love train because I have seen too many undersized PG’s fail in the NBA.  Heck, as great of a story as Sacramento’s Thomas IS, that’s partially because he was the 60th pick in the draft.  He wouldn’t be such a revelation if he were taken 12th.

[HomerKangParticipant]

That’s fine.  I ain’t got any beef with what you said.  You’re totally entitled to not be sold on him like me and a bunch of other people are, and I won’t even bother to neg you on it.  I simply don’t have time for retarded immaturity that most of the trolls that come on this site do.  Those freaks are just too damned neg-happy.

Now,  having said that,  I will stand by my position that he’s the best PG available after Smart and Exum are taken.  If you’re a team looking to draft a PG with a late pick, then he would be a huge steal for you if he’s still available.   Stephon Marbury was also just 6’2", and look what kind of player he became in the league.  In fact, and I have said this before,  Shabazz Napier is a sleeping Marbury just waiting for a chance to wake up in the pros.  And, when he gets selected by that lucky team this summer,  he WILL wake up and show why he’ll be better than Marcus Smart and Tyler Ennis (and I love Ennis coz I’m also a huge Cuse fan, but sorry to say it, after watching both of them play this past season, Ennis the Menace has got nothing on this kid).  Truly truly truly hope Napier slips down to the second round by the time my beloved Sixers pick, and then if they do take him, it’ll just make my next decade !!!

Can you just imagine a lineup of:

* Thad Young ( PF )

* Jabari Parker ( SF)

* Nerlens Noel ( C )

* Nik Stauskas ( SG )

* MCW ( PG )

With CJ Fair, Andre Dawkins, Shabazz Napier, Deandre Daniels coming off the bench ?  Wooooh !!!

[Scott42444Participant]

 Yes, people hit the thumbs down button on here like crazy.  I usually don’t bother, but now anyone that has a conversation on a thread I start I give them a thumbs up.  Even if they don’t agree with me.  The only thumbs down I even bother with are pricks that start stuff with other posters because they disagree.  That would be a good team for Philly.  They actually were still playing hard at the end of the season, which is impressive considering the front office was openly tanking.  That shows the coaching staff has their ear, which is a great sign moving forward when they have a considerable talent infusion.  That being said, it will take a couple years with that many 1st and 2nd year players.  I can’t imagine they keep all of their picks, but if they feel confident in the talent they draft maybe they will.  I just don’t know if Thad Young is enough of a "veteran leader" to help mold these guys into a legit contender.

[Scott42444Participant]

 Yes, people hit the thumbs down button on here like crazy.  I usually don’t bother, but now anyone that has a conversation on a thread I start I give them a thumbs up.  Even if they don’t agree with me.  The only thumbs down I even bother with are pricks that start stuff with other posters because they disagree.  That would be a good team for Philly.  They actually were still playing hard at the end of the season, which is impressive considering the front office was openly tanking.  That shows the coaching staff has their ear, which is a great sign moving forward when they have a considerable talent infusion.  That being said, it will take a couple years with that many 1st and 2nd year players.  I can’t imagine they keep all of their picks, but if they feel confident in the talent they draft maybe they will.  I just don’t know if Thad Young is enough of a "veteran leader" to help mold these guys into a legit contender.

[HomerKangParticipant]

That’s fine.  I ain’t got any beef with what you said.  You’re totally entitled to not be sold on him like me and a bunch of other people are, and I won’t even bother to neg you on it.  I simply don’t have time for retarded immaturity that most of the trolls that come on this site do.  Those freaks are just too damned neg-happy.

Now,  having said that,  I will stand by my position that he’s the best PG available after Smart and Exum are taken.  If you’re a team looking to draft a PG with a late pick, then he would be a huge steal for you if he’s still available.   Stephon Marbury was also just 6’2", and look what kind of player he became in the league.  In fact, and I have said this before,  Shabazz Napier is a sleeping Marbury just waiting for a chance to wake up in the pros.  And, when he gets selected by that lucky team this summer,  he WILL wake up and show why he’ll be better than Marcus Smart and Tyler Ennis (and I love Ennis coz I’m also a huge Cuse fan, but sorry to say it, after watching both of them play this past season, Ennis the Menace has got nothing on this kid).  Truly truly truly hope Napier slips down to the second round by the time my beloved Sixers pick, and then if they do take him, it’ll just make my next decade !!!

Can you just imagine a lineup of:

* Thad Young ( PF )

* Jabari Parker ( SF)

* Nerlens Noel ( C )

* Nik Stauskas ( SG )

* MCW ( PG )

With CJ Fair, Andre Dawkins, Shabazz Napier, Deandre Daniels coming off the bench ?  Wooooh !!!

[Scott42444Participant]

 I don’t know if I am as sold on him as other people (Napier, that is).  I like what I see, but DJ Augustin was an undersized, fast, scoring PG that was a lottery pick (meaning teams were high on him coming out of college).  If we take away that fact that DJ was cut multiple times and focus on his recent resurgence with the Bulls, you can see why height/length matters so much in the NBA.  Heck, Game 1 of the Playoffs against the Wizards will show you the problem with the undersized PG in today’s NBA.  The Wizards kept their franchise PG John Wall on the bench because the 90 year old Andre Miller was just abusing DJ with his size.  I could see Isiah Thomas (Sacramento version, not the HOF Detroit one) with Shabazz, but I could also see him tearing up the D-League his first couple of seasons like Pierre Jackson. Pierre doesn’t have anywhere NEAR the credentials that Napier has (as you mentioned, 2 NCAA Championship rings) but he is just so much smaller that a lot of the guys he will be going up against.  Heck, the first 2 PG’s taken in the draft in 2014 will be 6’4" (Marcus Smart) and 6’6" (Dante Exum).  I just can’t jump on board that Shabazz Napier love train because I have seen too many undersized PG’s fail in the NBA.  Heck, as great of a story as Sacramento’s Thomas IS, that’s partially because he was the 60th pick in the draft.  He wouldn’t be such a revelation if he were taken 12th.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

I would go with James Young, Shabazz Napier, and Cleanthony Early.  Nik Stauskas would be another guy in this group. 

Young is an athlete who can score, drive, and hit the 3.  Shabazz looked like Steph Curry 2.0 out there during that tourney run.  He has two rings which helps his case.  Early looked GREAT against Kentucky with his poise, athleticism, breakaway dunks, mid-range scoring, and 3 point shooting.  He looked like the guy we all want Andrew Wiggins to be.  … Stauskas is a long-range threat who can also do some other things. 

All these guys have well-rounded skill sets.

I am not sure that all those Tier 2 guys stay up that high.  Some could fall into the Tier 3 range.  I think most guys in this draft are Tier 3 with more Tier 1 and Tier 2 guys than last season.  This draft’s major depth as at the top 5 spots, then at 10 through about 20. 

I am not too sure that McDermott, Vonleh, and Rodney Hood are great values in the 5-10 range.  I see Harris as more of a Tier 3 guy too.  He is not a better prospect than James Young, in my opinion. 

I would bet that this draft has 3 Tier 1 guys, 5 Tier 2 guys with the bulk of talent being in the Tier 3 range. 

Then you have some solid Tier 4 type guys who project as decent rotation guys — some of these guys will fall even into the late second round.

Payne is a Tier 3 guy perhaps, but DEFINITELY a Tier 4 guy, and he could go in the late 20’s.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

I would go with James Young, Shabazz Napier, and Cleanthony Early.  Nik Stauskas would be another guy in this group. 

Young is an athlete who can score, drive, and hit the 3.  Shabazz looked like Steph Curry 2.0 out there during that tourney run.  He has two rings which helps his case.  Early looked GREAT against Kentucky with his poise, athleticism, breakaway dunks, mid-range scoring, and 3 point shooting.  He looked like the guy we all want Andrew Wiggins to be.  … Stauskas is a long-range threat who can also do some other things. 

All these guys have well-rounded skill sets.

I am not sure that all those Tier 2 guys stay up that high.  Some could fall into the Tier 3 range.  I think most guys in this draft are Tier 3 with more Tier 1 and Tier 2 guys than last season.  This draft’s major depth as at the top 5 spots, then at 10 through about 20. 

I am not too sure that McDermott, Vonleh, and Rodney Hood are great values in the 5-10 range.  I see Harris as more of a Tier 3 guy too.  He is not a better prospect than James Young, in my opinion. 

I would bet that this draft has 3 Tier 1 guys, 5 Tier 2 guys with the bulk of talent being in the Tier 3 range. 

Then you have some solid Tier 4 type guys who project as decent rotation guys — some of these guys will fall even into the late second round.

Payne is a Tier 3 guy perhaps, but DEFINITELY a Tier 4 guy, and he could go in the late 20’s.

[Scott42444Participant]

 I think that I am higher on Hood and definitely Vonleh than you are.  Hood should be an asset right away with his size for an NBA 3 (big enough and athletic enough to slip down and play Carmelo Anthony, Paul Pierce type small 4’s) with the proven ability to hit the NBA 3 (he shot what? 42% last year at Duke?).  Towards the end of the year, especially when Jabari was having a tougher time being a dominant force, he looked to be working on the drive and shoot and catch and shoot portions of his game even more than at the beginning of the year.  I don’t know if it’s an apt comparison, but the "Seattle version" of Rashard Lewis comes to mind.  He and Ray Allen were pretty damn good there for awhile together.  Heck, he was a big part of why Orlando made it to the NBA Finals as well.  That could be a #2, #2 1/2 option on a very good (contending) type of team.

[Scott42444Participant]

 I think that I am higher on Hood and definitely Vonleh than you are.  Hood should be an asset right away with his size for an NBA 3 (big enough and athletic enough to slip down and play Carmelo Anthony, Paul Pierce type small 4’s) with the proven ability to hit the NBA 3 (he shot what? 42% last year at Duke?).  Towards the end of the year, especially when Jabari was having a tougher time being a dominant force, he looked to be working on the drive and shoot and catch and shoot portions of his game even more than at the beginning of the year.  I don’t know if it’s an apt comparison, but the "Seattle version" of Rashard Lewis comes to mind.  He and Ray Allen were pretty damn good there for awhile together.  Heck, he was a big part of why Orlando made it to the NBA Finals as well.  That could be a #2, #2 1/2 option on a very good (contending) type of team.

[Sewok15Participant]

Adreian Payne is going to be like Taj Gibson with 3 point range.  If he falls out of the top 20 some playoff team will be pumped to take him because he can help on both ends immediately.

[Scott42444Participant]

 So I look at Payne as a guy who can contribute from Day 1 (as a rookie) in the NBA.  He has the physical size (both strength and height) to play a defined position in the NBA.  He also has the skillset that is en vogue for that position in the league currently, the ability to be a stretch 4 and step back to the 3 point line and hit the 3.  Why does he always end up falling into the 20’s of everyone’s mock drafts?  What am I missing with him?  I know that his "advanced age" has something to do with it (although I say that somewhat ironically since these are all kids in my 34 year old eyes).  I understand it, with a player like Taj Gibson, that he will just be hitting his stride and feel like a young player but is actually (as Gibson is) knocking on the door of 30 when he is ready to start.  But he’s definitely a contributor (in my eyes as well) early on in his NBA career.

[Scott42444Participant]

 So I look at Payne as a guy who can contribute from Day 1 (as a rookie) in the NBA.  He has the physical size (both strength and height) to play a defined position in the NBA.  He also has the skillset that is en vogue for that position in the league currently, the ability to be a stretch 4 and step back to the 3 point line and hit the 3.  Why does he always end up falling into the 20’s of everyone’s mock drafts?  What am I missing with him?  I know that his "advanced age" has something to do with it (although I say that somewhat ironically since these are all kids in my 34 year old eyes).  I understand it, with a player like Taj Gibson, that he will just be hitting his stride and feel like a young player but is actually (as Gibson is) knocking on the door of 30 when he is ready to start.  But he’s definitely a contributor (in my eyes as well) early on in his NBA career.

[Sewok15Participant]

Adreian Payne is going to be like Taj Gibson with 3 point range.  If he falls out of the top 20 some playoff team will be pumped to take him because he can help on both ends immediately.

[tidhoParticipant]

James Young is going to be a very good NBA player.

I could see him going as high as Detroit, and Cleveland would be absolute fools (not unheard of) to let him get past them.

[Scott42444Participant]

 I like what James Young brings to the table as well.  But, there have been so many mock drafts that I have seen that have Gary Harris as a solid Top 10 pick and James Young seems to flirt with the mid to late teens often.  Of course, maybe those are outdated mocks that haven’t taken the NCAA tournament into account.  Many of them have Gary Harris and Nik Stauskas ahead of him, which isn’t something that I would vehemently argue against, but James Young seems to be a well rounded SG prospect across the board (whereas the other 2 have either a size or athleticism concern going against them).  Just as a size comparison, Young measured (at the 2012 Lebron James Camp) 6’6.5", 214 lbs with a 6’11" wingspan.  Harris at the Durant camp in 2013 was 6’5" with shoes, 205 with only a 6’7" wingspan.  Stauskas (this was in 2010) at the NBA Top 100 Camp was 6’5" w/o shoes, 200 lbs with only a 6’7" wingspan as well.  Not that this is the end all be all, but the physical attributes show a large descrepency between those 3 guys (all similar prospects, falling in a similar range and playing the same position).  

Now, there is the issue of NBA readiness.  My favorite team, the Bulls, don’t have their own D-League team (which I think puts them at a bit of a disadvantage and the reason why they have to bring guys like Mike James back from the old folks home for insurance during the year instead of a young prospect).  This obviously has to factor into the development of some of these players, and whether teams feel the need to pick a particular player.  Harris seems, defensively especially, the most NBA ready.  But I just haven’t seen anything (especially late in the season this past year) that makes me scream future NBA all-star from him.  I haven’t seen as much of Stauskas this past year and I probably (incorrectly) still look at him as just a jump shooter from Michigan’s NCAA Championship Game tournament run.  

 

[Scott42444Participant]

 I like what James Young brings to the table as well.  But, there have been so many mock drafts that I have seen that have Gary Harris as a solid Top 10 pick and James Young seems to flirt with the mid to late teens often.  Of course, maybe those are outdated mocks that haven’t taken the NCAA tournament into account.  Many of them have Gary Harris and Nik Stauskas ahead of him, which isn’t something that I would vehemently argue against, but James Young seems to be a well rounded SG prospect across the board (whereas the other 2 have either a size or athleticism concern going against them).  Just as a size comparison, Young measured (at the 2012 Lebron James Camp) 6’6.5", 214 lbs with a 6’11" wingspan.  Harris at the Durant camp in 2013 was 6’5" with shoes, 205 with only a 6’7" wingspan.  Stauskas (this was in 2010) at the NBA Top 100 Camp was 6’5" w/o shoes, 200 lbs with only a 6’7" wingspan as well.  Not that this is the end all be all, but the physical attributes show a large descrepency between those 3 guys (all similar prospects, falling in a similar range and playing the same position).  

Now, there is the issue of NBA readiness.  My favorite team, the Bulls, don’t have their own D-League team (which I think puts them at a bit of a disadvantage and the reason why they have to bring guys like Mike James back from the old folks home for insurance during the year instead of a young prospect).  This obviously has to factor into the development of some of these players, and whether teams feel the need to pick a particular player.  Harris seems, defensively especially, the most NBA ready.  But I just haven’t seen anything (especially late in the season this past year) that makes me scream future NBA all-star from him.  I haven’t seen as much of Stauskas this past year and I probably (incorrectly) still look at him as just a jump shooter from Michigan’s NCAA Championship Game tournament run.  

 

[tidhoParticipant]

James Young is going to be a very good NBA player.

I could see him going as high as Detroit, and Cleveland would be absolute fools (not unheard of) to let him get past them.

[Author]

Posts