[OhCanada-Participant]

Whats everyones opinion on the Simmons situation?

Heres what I think. First and foremost you never hand your franchise over to a rookie. Its never worked. Even with Lebron James it didn’t work. They didn’t win a championship until he returned for his second stint. Kobe had tons of veteran support and had to earn his status as the go to guy. Durant and Westbrook came close but OKC ended up getting burned. Giannis didn’t get the green light until his third or fourth season and even then they slowly groomed him and held him accountable. This is well noted by the Jason Kidd firing when he tried to intervene and Milwaukee still moved on with the decision despite Giannis objecting. Meanwhile in Philly Simmons and Embiid saved Coach Brown’s job on multiple occasions.

Philly did this to themselves. When they started the “Trust the Process” campaign they showed no commitment to developing talent. Instead of working with Michael Carter Williams they dumped him as soon as he showed signs of contributing to winning. In return Simmons is doing the same. Nobody was there to hold him or Embiid accountable, they brought is Butler to do just that and he said “hell nah” and bolted. Some of the antics that Simmons and Embiid have pulled have been embarrassing time after time.

With that being said I don’t like the narrative about Simmons around the league. Even without a jumpshot he is one of the best players in the league, Top 30 or so… he’s one of the most unique basketball players of alltime and still only 25 years old. The narrative says he does not work on his jumpshot yet the last three years theres literally hours of footage proving he is working on it. He just has not found the confidence to take the shot in game, and if he finds a new situation that really doesn’t care if he makes or misses that shot he will improve.

I think this is a very good chance to snag a player with MVP potential. But whats his value? Wiggins, Kuminga, Moody and picks? Hield, Barnes, Bagley and picks? Van Vleet, Boucher, Dragic and picks? What is the package they are looking for and when do they decide to pull the trigger?

I think they should be all in on a package from the Kings. Buddy Hield’s production has been limited by Luke Walton. He’s converted him to a strictly off the ball shooter and despite that and Fox’s rise his assists have increased. He could be a 25-5 guy in Philly and getting him plus a plethora of picks, plus a few more role players could keep actually improve the 76ers team.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Also just to point out…despite only hearing that the teams interested are the California teams, Toronto and Cleveland I do think every team in the NBA is in on this one. He could land anywhere. He has 4 years on his contract and I heard he is willing to play for anyone. I mean he could very well end up in Charlotte in a trade centered around Gordon Hayward or Atlanta in a trade around Hunter, Reddish and Galinari or something.

[armchairgmParticipant]

Regardless if Simmons wants out, which he obviously does, 76ers should be looking to shake it up anyway. Obviously Embiid and Simmons pairing has only been able to get them so far and they have tried the pairing under two coaches so it was time to split them up so 76ers can try and make the next step.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

Simmons is not one of the best players in the league when it gets to the playoffs. Not even close. Much like the Sixers in general, Simmons is frontrunning and mentally soft. In some ways I feel he is a victim of the culture. He thought it would come easy once they decided to try, and it is clear he took that approach to his individual development. Perhaps, the team did him a disservice by not realizing that his shot development should not have begun an the arc, and sticking a few 15 footers and building back would have been a smarter teaching model. Still, even now, he won’t take an open 15-footer, and panics at the free throw line in the playoffs. He wants to be treated like a star, but plays hot potato with the ball when the pressure ramps up. That isn’t how it works in sports. Maybe you miss. Maybe Giannis air balls a free throw or a jumper. You don’t back down. Embiid was drafted in 2014, and you can still count on one hand the number of times he went a month without an injury or rest day. Is it any surprise he gets tired late in playoff games? It was a rotten culture that they were drafted in, and it is hard to get established players to change their stripes.

The problem with Simmons wanting out is that other teams view him as a distressed asset, not a franchise player. They aren’t going to give a AD, Harden, PG13 type offer for a guy whose playoff performances against a live opponent is abysmal. Something is going to have to give if he holds out. It is not remotely surprising that two of the teams reported to have the most interest are Minnesota and Sacramento. Minnesota gave up any appreciation for culture when it handed a max contract to Andrew Wiggins and then had the owner say “now you have to earn it” and then drew the line at paying Jimmy Butler. Sacramento had a chance to correct their course a few years ago with Joerger, but went the Luke Walton route and fell back to playing fast and dumb. I actually like a most of their core, but there is no path forward as a collection.

[Scrooge McDuckParticipant]

It’s tiresome because I never felt Simmons would be a franchise player, similar to how I felt about RJ Barrett. If he was smarter he’d recommit to Philly, and he’ll need a dominant teammate to ever win one.

He’s a top 50-60 player in the league with limited potential, his trade value ought to reflect that

[RUDEBOY-Participant]

awww come on now,simmons is at least a top 24-35 talent..60 is stretching it…

he’s a 3 time all star,2 time first team defender,all nba 3rd team & steals leader in 2020..1 of the few players capable of posting a triple double on any night…and he’s still only 25…
if this was 25 years ago , he would have a role similar to dennis rodman & ben wallace..great defenders who werent on the court to score….and his inability to score wouldnt be as ridiculed like it is today in an era in which 7 footers r expected to shoot 3s….but unlike rodman and big, ben simmons is capable of averaging 20 pts becuz of his ability to attack the rim..but in the current era he must make outside shots or at least attempt them…..his problem is mental….he needs to grow a pair…

[Scrooge McDuckParticipant]

Philly sucks with Embiid out. Case closed

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Looks like he’s not reporting to camp.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

The rule changes, first the hand checking and then the freedom of movement, has altered the league. The extent to which teams have minimized the regular season by resting players has altered how one must assess regular season numbers. This is without question, but the problem with comparing Simmons to Wallace or Rodman is that it ignores the need of the team. It ignores how, in many ways, the mark of a great player is how he makes those around him and the collective team better. Michael Jordan and Shaq were Alonzo from training day. “You give me 18 months, I give you a career.” Go back and see just how many guys got paid off playing with them. Magic Johnson was that way to an extraordinary extent. James Worthy and Byron Scott retired when Magic did, they just didn’t know it for a number of years. Free agency didn’t really take off until after Magic, but he altered careers. LeBron has been that way. Wade was that way. Chris Paul is that way. Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman played their roles, probably outsized given their limitations, to perfection. Wallace taking the bullet of guarding Shaq and allowing Detroit to build the defensive wall against LeBron was integral to their success. Rodman was guarding Kemp, Malone, Shaq, etc. He was the master of deflections, charges, loose balls, and all things beyond a box score. You can compare Draymond to them a few years ago with Golden State, but can anyone honestly say that about Ben Simmons? Can anyone argue that he has been a net positive for Philadelphia beyond one-sided first rounders in the playoffs?

[OhCanada-Participant]

Off topic but just wanted mention because thats a really good point you brought up. I was thinking about this the other day. Kyle Lowry has probably gotten as many guys paid as anyone in the NBA at this point. It would be pretty hard to find someone who has gotten more guys paid. I was thinking about how Lebron made sure Tristan Thompson got paid that one year and everyone knew it was a bad deal.

Lowry has gotten Siakam and Van Vleet massive contracts obviously. OG is another guy. Jonas Valanciunas another. Norm Powell just got a huge contract. And thats just the big ones. Theres still guys like Jakob Poeltl who he really helped get easy buckets and created a role for. Even way back when you look at the teams with PG’s he competed with. Mike Conley got paid a huge contract, pretty sure it was amongst the largest in the league at that time. Dragic also got a large contract.

I’m excited for his season in Miami. Hoping he gets some respect after this season and gets recognition as one of the leagues best players because thats really what he is.

[Scrooge McDuckParticipant]

Poetl was the 10th pick and played a year with Spurs before his big contract

Few of the players you mentioned depended on Lowry for anything

Before Kawhi Lowry was disrespected because he choked in the playoffs. He was permanently in trade rumors. Or maybe I don’t follow any of it close enough

[HitsterParticipant]

Simmons taking his ball and going home has made his trade value drop more than it already has. For a guy with flaws in his shooting game the 76ers are unlikely to get the return they wanted and Morey and co won’t let him leave on the cheap.
Doc Brown will want the team to contend and Embeast will want them to be relevant so they need some proven guys or they begin to “Trust the process” again and put Embiid up to the highest bidder.

Given his durability issues they might think it is worth cashing in on him and tanking given you’ve got some top prospects in the next few drafts.

With John Wall on the outs I thought about a deal involving him and Simmons but Philly would want assets and if you are giving the keys of the Rockets to Green then could Simmons fit in there.

The Cavs have lacked a true creative player for a few years and K-Love could fit bulk of salary with Garland or Sexton being the main piece 76ers get back.

GSW could use Simmons as a 4 or a 5 and he could effectively be Draymond’s long term replacement. They have assets to do a deal.
The Knicks despite making the play off lack a real superstar, they have players they could build a deal around but lack the quality 76ers would want.

[OhCanada-Participant]

I saw a trade proposal on RealGM the other day where Wall and Sexton go to Philly, Simmons goes to Cleveland and Love goes to Houston along with some draft picks.

This trade works because Houston is gonna have to buy out Wall anyways, his contract is nearly untradable. If Houston can get some picks even if they are heavily protected for a few years its better than just eating that contract. Rumors been that Cleveland doesn’t wanna give Sexton the max and has been shopping him.

I like the trade and think something like that could happen.

[HitsterParticipant]

A three way trade potentially involving K-Love to match bulk of Wall’s salary works and if Houston could get anything back for Wall it would be a fantastic deal for them. They absorb K-Love’s salary but it is around $33 million less over the remaining couple of year’s than John Wall’s would have been.
K-Love has a title so potentially being an experienced head in Houston for a year or so likely wouldn’t be an issue to him. Also his final year is worth over $2 million less than this season so becomes a bit more tradeable and makes a buyout a lot cheaper than Wall would have been. K-Love can then hop onto a contender for another tilt at a title.
If Philly can get Sexton and Wall it gives them experience and a younger prospect which widens their window around Embeast.
If the Cavs are hesitant about paying Sexton they get a more proven guy in Simmons with a long guaranteed deal. He gives them a main creative player and Simmons becomes the top star and has a young pool of prospects to run the offence for. Also Cavs get a lockdown defender which any relevant team will also need.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Warriors owner Joe Lacob got fined for tampering today. $50k… as if he gives a shit. The guys paying out half billion in salaries because of taxes the past few seasons. Funny thing is he was pretty much bashing Simmons, saying he’s too much like Green, they prefer Draymond and he can’t shoot. He basically said theres no fit. Probably said that to drive down the price thats why he got fined but funny either way.

[HitsterParticipant]

Does Lillard come into play I wonder would 76ers make a run at him or even Brad Beal ?

[r377Participant]

simmons isn’t really that good. In a league which loves and rewards shooting his value isn’t as good as some may think.

If he can’t shoot now, chances are his shot will never really improve.

He needs to be surrounds by stars who can shoot, can’t have him being your best player on the team.

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