Ben Simmons Explained - NBADraft.net

This topic contains 36 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Hitster 10 years, 5 months ago.

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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 10:14am #62335

TripleDoubleScout
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I have felt the need to post this in response to recent (and in my opinion to some degree over the top) criticism of Ben Simmons. I wanted to post this before LSU’s SEC play begins tonight, because I HATE when people make knee jerk assessments after the fact. The point I want to make is Simmons’ game is gravely misunderstood. The reason he doesn’t "dominate", which when people say this they clearly mean only scoring, is because he isn’t a scorer. HE’S A POINT GUARD with a point guard’s mentality (if you MUST use the term "point forward" to feel safer in your assessment, go ahead lol). The guy even said it himself for goodness sake. How do people miss this when the kid plays? He’s a really bad post defender, has no real post game, has shown the abilityto guard wings, is only effective with the ball in his hands on the perimeter and in transition, and yet people think he’s a PF? Now I will say this: Ben needs to wake up and realize that his teammates suck. I know he wants to pass the ball, but he is wasting at least half a dozen possessions getting guys that can’t really shoot OPEN JUMPERS!!! So frustrating to watch. Those passes will become automatic assists in the NBA. Ben’s mentality is to make others around him better, to get them going first, then himself. I guess people don’t get what he is because it’s been decades since we have seen a player Simmons’ size be a point guard, so on one hand I understand the critics confusion. But I’m begging everyone who disagrees and is reading this to not just dismiss this post, but actually watch the games and take my points into consideration when you do. Everything I said about Simmons since this past summer to this point has been proven. I will admit, I have started to hear whispers of Magic Johnson comparisons in the media lately as BS’s actual game as become more apparent, so that’s good. I just wanted to start a discussion with Simmons’ skeptics (most of whom are great posters btw) on this forum. Ok. Had to get that off my chest…
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 11:26am #1034864

SubZero
Participant
The recent criticisms sound similar to the ones against Lebron when he always deferred in crunch time, and even if it was a good pass to an open teammate, they’d say he should’ve shot anyway. I’m a UK fan and hate LSU, but I’m really excited for Ben Simmons. I haven’t agreed with everyone saying he’s a PF, I think it’s fairly obvious you can have him bring the ball up the floor and run the offense. He’s not a post player or a stretch 4, he needs the ball on the perimeter to maximize his potential
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 11:26am #1034727

SubZero
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The recent criticisms sound similar to the ones against Lebron when he always deferred in crunch time, and even if it was a good pass to an open teammate, they’d say he should’ve shot anyway. I’m a UK fan and hate LSU, but I’m really excited for Ben Simmons. I haven’t agreed with everyone saying he’s a PF, I think it’s fairly obvious you can have him bring the ball up the floor and run the offense. He’s not a post player or a stretch 4, he needs the ball on the perimeter to maximize his potential
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- Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 1:29pm #1034882
  
  ballislyfe25
  Participant
  Who he guards defensively is likely why people see him as a "point forward" or 4. He would have an obvious size advantage against any guard but his combination of quickness/athleticism, handles, and size will allow him to expose 3s and 4s who would check him.
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- Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 1:29pm #1034745
  
  ballislyfe25
  Participant
  Who he guards defensively is likely why people see him as a "point forward" or 4. He would have an obvious size advantage against any guard but his combination of quickness/athleticism, handles, and size will allow him to expose 3s and 4s who would check him.
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  - Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 1:40pm #1034884
    
    TripleDoubleScout
    Participant
    Yes. This is pretty much my point. Simmons is a mismatch on offense against anyone (when the ball is in his hands), and a defensive mismatch against guards. When people "see him as a 4" they are incorrect. That’s not Simmons’ fault.
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  - Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 1:40pm #1034747
    
    TripleDoubleScout
    Participant
    Yes. This is pretty much my point. Simmons is a mismatch on offense against anyone (when the ball is in his hands), and a defensive mismatch against guards. When people "see him as a 4" they are incorrect. That’s not Simmons’ fault.
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 12:01pm #1034866

ph90702
If only Ben Simmons went to Duke. His talent is being wasted at LSU.
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 12:01pm #1034729

ph90702
If only Ben Simmons went to Duke. His talent is being wasted at LSU.
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 1:16pm #1034876

NJHooper95
Participant
If he shot too much people would say he is just a gunner on a bad team, if he passes to much then he is passive, no killer instinct and can’t dominate a game. I think Simmons would prefer to pass than shoot and it’s sad that we fault him for wanting to be a great passer. Believe it or not though Lebron scores his best skill set is passing. Simmons may never be a 25 put guy In the league but what’s wrong with 16 8ast and 8 Rebs. Isn’t the media calling Calling Draymond Green great for putting up numbers similar to that?
I agree that he doesn’t have much to pass to, despite his teammates high ranking out of high school, and that he needs to be more aggressive. But maybe he can be a better Lamar Odom and that would be a pretty damn good player, not a magic or Lebron, but still a high allstar caliber player
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 1:16pm #1034739

NJHooper95
Participant
If he shot too much people would say he is just a gunner on a bad team, if he passes to much then he is passive, no killer instinct and can’t dominate a game. I think Simmons would prefer to pass than shoot and it’s sad that we fault him for wanting to be a great passer. Believe it or not though Lebron scores his best skill set is passing. Simmons may never be a 25 put guy In the league but what’s wrong with 16 8ast and 8 Rebs. Isn’t the media calling Calling Draymond Green great for putting up numbers similar to that?
I agree that he doesn’t have much to pass to, despite his teammates high ranking out of high school, and that he needs to be more aggressive. But maybe he can be a better Lamar Odom and that would be a pretty damn good player, not a magic or Lebron, but still a high allstar caliber player
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 1:42pm #1034886

Dazzling Dunks and Basketball Bloopers
Participant
I think Simmons will definitely be a very good player at the next level pretty much no matter what. However, there are many people who are basically anointing him as the next nba superstar in waiting before he has even played an NBA game. I have heard several people compare him to lebron and others suggest it would be absolutely ridiculous to compare him to a player such as Lamar Odom as if simmons will automatically just be so much better than odom. These are the types of expectations I was addressing with the recent thread I started "is Ben Simmons slightly overrated".
If you noticed I said " slightly overrated" because I still love Simmons all-around game and potential. He is still probably the guy I would take if I had the first overall pick. I think he will eventually develop the confidence to become at least a decent outside shooter. His form on his foul shots is actually pretty decent but he gets sped up too much in game situations right now. I think that will improve with time as well as his overall offensive game.
The bigger concern I have with Simmons is that at times he just really seems to be going through the motions on the court and seems to be playing more for stats than wins. There is a difference between being unselfish and making the right basketball play. I have seen several games this year where Simmons has clear opportunities to score but instead will force a pass to a teammate, almost as if he is trying to boost his assist totals. Some will praise him for being unselfish but this is actually a very selfish play and it has cost lsu some games this year imo. There is absolutely no way lebron or even magic would ever let a 6-3 guy defend them straight up in the post with no help and not exploit that mismatch every time down the court. However, that’s exactly what Simmons did against wake forest. His defensive effort comes and goes too. I’ve seen several occasions where he just steps out of the way and concedes a lay up. I would say this was a smart play if he were in foul trouble but he does it in close games even when he’s not on foul trouble.
Again, I like Simmons game a lot and certainly think he will be a very good NBA player. I did not start the thread to bash his game or anything. Overall, the lack of a killer instinct I see does make me question if he will really ever be a truly elite player at the next level though. I just sort of think there are some people who are creating an unrealistic level of expectation for the kid to live up to, where if he doesn’t develop into a lebron or magic he will go down as a disappointment. I’m just not sure he is wired that way. I could be wrong though. It will be interesting to see how he develops.

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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 1:42pm #1034749

Dazzling Dunks and Basketball Bloopers
Participant
I think Simmons will definitely be a very good player at the next level pretty much no matter what. However, there are many people who are basically anointing him as the next nba superstar in waiting before he has even played an NBA game. I have heard several people compare him to lebron and others suggest it would be absolutely ridiculous to compare him to a player such as Lamar Odom as if simmons will automatically just be so much better than odom. These are the types of expectations I was addressing with the recent thread I started "is Ben Simmons slightly overrated".
If you noticed I said " slightly overrated" because I still love Simmons all-around game and potential. He is still probably the guy I would take if I had the first overall pick. I think he will eventually develop the confidence to become at least a decent outside shooter. His form on his foul shots is actually pretty decent but he gets sped up too much in game situations right now. I think that will improve with time as well as his overall offensive game.
The bigger concern I have with Simmons is that at times he just really seems to be going through the motions on the court and seems to be playing more for stats than wins. There is a difference between being unselfish and making the right basketball play. I have seen several games this year where Simmons has clear opportunities to score but instead will force a pass to a teammate, almost as if he is trying to boost his assist totals. Some will praise him for being unselfish but this is actually a very selfish play and it has cost lsu some games this year imo. There is absolutely no way lebron or even magic would ever let a 6-3 guy defend them straight up in the post with no help and not exploit that mismatch every time down the court. However, that’s exactly what Simmons did against wake forest. His defensive effort comes and goes too. I’ve seen several occasions where he just steps out of the way and concedes a lay up. I would say this was a smart play if he were in foul trouble but he does it in close games even when he’s not on foul trouble.
Again, I like Simmons game a lot and certainly think he will be a very good NBA player. I did not start the thread to bash his game or anything. Overall, the lack of a killer instinct I see does make me question if he will really ever be a truly elite player at the next level though. I just sort of think there are some people who are creating an unrealistic level of expectation for the kid to live up to, where if he doesn’t develop into a lebron or magic he will go down as a disappointment. I’m just not sure he is wired that way. I could be wrong though. It will be interesting to see how he develops.

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- Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 1:58pm #1034753
  
  TripleDoubleScout
  Participant
  Actually, I did notice you said "slightly overrated". I didn’t really have a problem with your assessment, even though I strongly disagreed. It was sober. I had a problem with a lot of the comments on your thread going WAY overboard, and indeed questioning whether/saying he is ACTUALLY overrated.
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  - Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 5:20pm #1034802
    
    Hype Machine
    Lol that thread was so bad that I actually hated myself for participating.
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  - Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 5:20pm #1034941
    
    Hype Machine
    Lol that thread was so bad that I actually hated myself for participating.
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- Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 1:58pm #1034890
  
  TripleDoubleScout
  Participant
  Actually, I did notice you said "slightly overrated". I didn’t really have a problem with your assessment, even though I strongly disagreed. It was sober. I had a problem with a lot of the comments on your thread going WAY overboard, and indeed questioning whether/saying he is ACTUALLY overrated.
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- Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 5:55pm #1034812
  
  Hype Machine
  Playing for stats instead of wins – I dont buy that.
  Especially when they’re ultra efficient.
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- Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 5:55pm #1034951
  
  Hype Machine
  Playing for stats instead of wins – I dont buy that.
  Especially when they’re ultra efficient.
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 3:06pm #1034766

properbreaks
Participant
He has a post game. He’s just not used to being in the post. I see quick drop steps, counter moves, spin moves, reverse pivots, head fakes and even up and unders on the other side of the rim. In high school he played small forward or better yet point forward because the power forward and his center were bigger than him. They were one of the best teams in the country so he was looking to set people up.
Whether he likes to pass the ball or whatever the case might be, for them to win he should be looking to score EVEN more. 20 points is good, matter of fact great, but he could score more and needs to score more if he expects his team to be in the tournament. It’s why I’m tuning in tonight; to see if he understands this and goes out and leads his team wins.
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 3:06pm #1034904

properbreaks
Participant
He has a post game. He’s just not used to being in the post. I see quick drop steps, counter moves, spin moves, reverse pivots, head fakes and even up and unders on the other side of the rim. In high school he played small forward or better yet point forward because the power forward and his center were bigger than him. They were one of the best teams in the country so he was looking to set people up.
Whether he likes to pass the ball or whatever the case might be, for them to win he should be looking to score EVEN more. 20 points is good, matter of fact great, but he could score more and needs to score more if he expects his team to be in the tournament. It’s why I’m tuning in tonight; to see if he understands this and goes out and leads his team wins.
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 4:13pm #1034778

SubZero
Participant
Why does he not touch the ball every time LSU goes down the court?
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- Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 4:23pm #1034786
  
  tuck243
  Participant
  He should bring it down 85% of the time… Let him look at attacking or set it up the offense. Not too many people can stay in front of him at this level..
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- Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 4:23pm #1034925
  
  tuck243
  Participant
  He should bring it down 85% of the time… Let him look at attacking or set it up the offense. Not too many people can stay in front of him at this level..
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 4:13pm #1034917

SubZero
Participant
Why does he not touch the ball every time LSU goes down the court?
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 4:22pm #1034784

tuck243
Participant
He coasts A LOT. I’m not sure if that’s because his teammates don’t get the ball to him or he doesn’t actively go to the ball, it’s probably a little bit of both. Whenever he puts his mind on scoring/attacking it’s damn near the best decision for the team. This isn’t a LeBron passing on the last shot type of thing… Ben is more passive than that. 1-6 at NC State? He HAS to take more shots and that has nothing to do with him being a PG. He’s the best scoring option on LSU at times, he gotta get better at maximizing this part of his game. Mess around and the potential #1 pick will be in the NIT.
The thing that amazes me is his confindence and the things he says. He doesn’t see a difference in the hs to college game for real. He also said it’s easier to do things in college, yet, he doesn’t dominate when he should. I will say he’s intriguing to watch because you’re just waiting for him to turn "it" on and kill.

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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 4:22pm #1034923

tuck243
Participant
He coasts A LOT. I’m not sure if that’s because his teammates don’t get the ball to him or he doesn’t actively go to the ball, it’s probably a little bit of both. Whenever he puts his mind on scoring/attacking it’s damn near the best decision for the team. This isn’t a LeBron passing on the last shot type of thing… Ben is more passive than that. 1-6 at NC State? He HAS to take more shots and that has nothing to do with him being a PG. He’s the best scoring option on LSU at times, he gotta get better at maximizing this part of his game. Mess around and the potential #1 pick will be in the NIT.
The thing that amazes me is his confindence and the things he says. He doesn’t see a difference in the hs to college game for real. He also said it’s easier to do things in college, yet, he doesn’t dominate when he should. I will say he’s intriguing to watch because you’re just waiting for him to turn "it" on and kill.

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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 4:52pm #1034788

PulseGlazer
Participant
The comments on Ben actually remind me of the pre-draft comments on Drummond, if not as extreme. Even if it’s rough when you’re 18, this kind of talent tends to win out.
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 4:52pm #1034927

PulseGlazer
Participant
The comments on Ben actually remind me of the pre-draft comments on Drummond, if not as extreme. Even if it’s rough when you’re 18, this kind of talent tends to win out.
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 5:27pm #1034806

holefillers1
Participant
His skills translate to the NBA. I see him as a majic Johnson type. Whenever he plays off ball he gets double teamed. Dont see that happening in the NBA. His passing is excellent but he passes to college level players so his teamates don’t make him look good all the time. But as I stated above I think his scoring and range remind me of Magic along with his passing ability and super high IQ. Don’t care who he guards because he is smart enough and athletic enough not to get embarrassed. Probably can and will gaurd multiple positions in a given game.
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 5:27pm #1034945

holefillers1
Participant
His skills translate to the NBA. I see him as a majic Johnson type. Whenever he plays off ball he gets double teamed. Dont see that happening in the NBA. His passing is excellent but he passes to college level players so his teamates don’t make him look good all the time. But as I stated above I think his scoring and range remind me of Magic along with his passing ability and super high IQ. Don’t care who he guards because he is smart enough and athletic enough not to get embarrassed. Probably can and will gaurd multiple positions in a given game.
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 6:41pm #1034830

SlickBouncePass
Participant
is rating him as a PF. I think people see he lacks in certain areas. If he’s a PG, well his shot is horrendous. If he wants to be Scottie Pippen or Lamar Odom, he better fix that shot. I think he’s a little more dynamic than both.
If he’s a Forward or PF, where he plays a lot (because as I said he should touch the ball every possession not watch his teammates), then obviously he needs work on his post moves (he’s not exactly Chris Webber or Jahlil Okafor), and in fact sometimes looks pretty awful finishing under the rim out of the post.
I think he’s the ultimate hybrid player and teams will match him up wherever tehy can get the mismatch. Thats why he would be the #1 pick.
The problem with his offense is, he scores in the same way every game, near the bucket. Will that always be available in the NBA?
If he’s just a facilitator, then thats fine. I’d like to see what Magic Johnson says about his game…Magic’s assessment is always on point.

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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 6:41pm #1034969

SlickBouncePass
Participant
is rating him as a PF. I think people see he lacks in certain areas. If he’s a PG, well his shot is horrendous. If he wants to be Scottie Pippen or Lamar Odom, he better fix that shot. I think he’s a little more dynamic than both.
If he’s a Forward or PF, where he plays a lot (because as I said he should touch the ball every possession not watch his teammates), then obviously he needs work on his post moves (he’s not exactly Chris Webber or Jahlil Okafor), and in fact sometimes looks pretty awful finishing under the rim out of the post.
I think he’s the ultimate hybrid player and teams will match him up wherever tehy can get the mismatch. Thats why he would be the #1 pick.
The problem with his offense is, he scores in the same way every game, near the bucket. Will that always be available in the NBA?
If he’s just a facilitator, then thats fine. I’d like to see what Magic Johnson says about his game…Magic’s assessment is always on point.

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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 11:28pm #1034857

TravelinTrav
Participant
I haven’t seen much of Simmons play other than a few highlights on YouTube. What position will he play in the NBA? Not on paper but during an actual game, what position does he gaurd,and who guards him? Is he quick enough to gaurd a PG or strong enough to gaurd a PF in the NBA? And how does he play in the half court? Just questions I have from a lack of film.
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Posted on: Sat, 01/02/2016 - 11:28pm #1034995

TravelinTrav
Participant
I haven’t seen much of Simmons play other than a few highlights on YouTube. What position will he play in the NBA? Not on paper but during an actual game, what position does he gaurd,and who guards him? Is he quick enough to gaurd a PG or strong enough to gaurd a PF in the NBA? And how does he play in the half court? Just questions I have from a lack of film.
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Posted on: Sun, 01/03/2016 - 2:46pm #1035057

Hitster
Participant
If he has a point forward’s skillset then would someone like Grant Hill be a better player to compare him to than Magic. I totally get what TDS says in his excellent initial post.
A lot of star players need the ball in their hands and thus have excellent assist numbers for example LBJ rather than being ball hogs. But these type of players are slightly different from a point forward who will carry a ball like a PG does and distribute it thus. This type of player may not have a post game as such so Simmons’ skillset totally fits into this.
Simmons would probably guard the opposition SF or even PF in the NBA. More PF’s are finesse or stretch guys now so Simmons would not need to get into the paint that often and if he had a good defensive anchor C behind him then this would be a safety net.
The more I think about Simmons, the more Philly seems a great fit for him, they need a SF and a PG and in Simmons they get both and he can play some PF too. Okafor’s post game can compensate if Simmons doesn’t develop one and Noelo and co can cover him on defence too.

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Posted on: Sun, 01/03/2016 - 2:46pm #1034918

Hitster
Participant
If he has a point forward’s skillset then would someone like Grant Hill be a better player to compare him to than Magic. I totally get what TDS says in his excellent initial post.
A lot of star players need the ball in their hands and thus have excellent assist numbers for example LBJ rather than being ball hogs. But these type of players are slightly different from a point forward who will carry a ball like a PG does and distribute it thus. This type of player may not have a post game as such so Simmons’ skillset totally fits into this.
Simmons would probably guard the opposition SF or even PF in the NBA. More PF’s are finesse or stretch guys now so Simmons would not need to get into the paint that often and if he had a good defensive anchor C behind him then this would be a safety net.
The more I think about Simmons, the more Philly seems a great fit for him, they need a SF and a PG and in Simmons they get both and he can play some PF too. Okafor’s post game can compensate if Simmons doesn’t develop one and Noelo and co can cover him on defence too.

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