[valentine]

 he gets a 7 in profile and does 1 rep  jae crowder  does 20 reps and gets an 8 in their profile  me thinks strength rating needs to be improved when someones writing these profiles

[Aran SmithKeymaster]

You have to consider that Jae Crowder is basically a 6-5 235 lb power forward. Benching 185 20 times doesn’t mean he can bang with power forwards at the NBA level. Strength is more than upperbody strength, it’s body strength. Also, a guy with short arms can bench more easily than a guy with long arms…You can criticize it, but there isn’t really anything wrong with Crowder with an 8 and Rivers with a 7.

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 No, Rivers being able to bench 185 only once is a problem even for a SG. If you think Rivers is a 7, then what is a 5? I don’t think folks care about strength for shooting guards too much. Durrant was weak. But Durrant had crazy long arms (which as you point out makes it harder to bench) while Rivers does not. Also, I believe Durrant was younger than Rivers at the time of their combines. 

Crowder should play Small Forward in the NBA (if the GMs pull their collective heads out of their asses and draft him) and he will be massively strong for that position. 

[FastAndFuriousParticipant]

 Regardless of the Rivers and the Crowder debate, I never really understood the profile rating for some guys, when compared to other guys who play the same exact position as them, sometimes the ratings be a little off, when you compare them to other guys who play the same position as them.

[joecheck88Participant]

 I think part of it is more than one person makes the profile. They have like 3 or 4(maybe more) people making profiles for players. So the person that made Crowders may not be the guy that made Rivers. Different people, different opinions on strength. 

[joecheck88Participant]

 I agree about Crowder being a 3. I personally think he can develop into a Jared Dudley type player. It may take a few years but if a team sticks with him, he could pay dividends as a bench player down the road as a SF.

[tli232]

While we’re on the topic of strength and benching, I must say I think it’s absurd to measure strength. Bench is so far removed from how "basketball strong" you are it’s ridiculous. 

 

[joecheck88Participant]

 Yea bench is almost pointless for basketball players. I think they should do squats. Like a max squat or something. And broad jump too like in the nfl. The bench press can tell you a little but not too much. I can bench 185 about 8 times and I bet I’m not anywhere close to as strong as Andre Drummond who only did 10. So take it how you want.

[JoeWolf1]

 The best measure, IMO, would be a hang clean.  It’s a very relevant basketball lift because it’s a total body lift and people who are explosive tent to do very well at it.  It is an advanced lift and all basketball players are not weight lifters.  It’s not feasable, but that is what I think would be best.

Also, I wish they did three consecutive vertical tests, which were timed.  This would see how high a player can get on a 2nd and 3rd jump and how fast their 2nd and 3rd jumps are.

I think both would be more relevant than bench press.

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

In basketball. PJ3 is not stronger than Drummomd but benched more reps than him.

[tli232]

In the end, the bench in theory would be the most consistent way of mesureing strength. Everyone knows how ot do it. There aren’t too many advantages to be gained through technique.

As a powerlifter, I know that there are quite a few technical adjustments a lifter can leverage when squatting to gain a mechanical advantage and give them an edge over their competition. So… Squatting is out.

While I haven’t competed in olympic lifting, I think hang clean is one of the more dangerous excercises you can do to your max. E.g. your form decreases exponentially with each clean and risk of injury rises. So hang clean can’t be too popular with agents and coaches alike. 

Bench is probably used because it’s safe and you can’t really teach technique to improve.

 

[butidonthavemoney]

Few things:

• I try not to draw any conclusions from the athletic combine. Some players train for it and do better, but it never really tells you how athletic a prospect plays in real game situations. If anything, it shows who’s in great shape (Harrison Barnes, for example), versus who has slacking off (J’Covan Brown). The bench press numbers really don’t mean anything else to me.
• Rivers is 6’5" in shoes and weighs over 200 pounds, which gives him solid size and girth for either guard position. Size is inherently related to strength, and severely affects things like balance, center of gravity and body control. While he doesn’t stand out in that area, I feel like his erratic finishing ability is more due to the fact that he rushes shots around the rim instead of an issue with strength.
• He’s done a good job of gaining strength in the past, and should be able to add a few more pounds in the future.
• I rated Rivers’ strength as below average, but considering the role I expect he’ll be drafted to play (combo guard; the ball will be in his hands a lot, and he won’t be asked to be a defensive stopper) I doubt it will be a liability on a night-to-night basis (I would have rated his strength a 5 or a 6 in that case).

All things considered, I figured he deserved a rating of 7 in strength. Didn’t write the Crowder profile.

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