[paradigmnParticipant]

 Before I begin let me say this site is a work of art and if Aran Smith asked for a small monthly fee, I’d happily oblige…After the changes to the MOCK I saw allot of posts questioning Aran and allot of posts defending him…I didn’t know much about him so I did a little research….He’s definitely an established basketball mind and has made some nice calls when it comes to picks but I have also seen some blunders through out the years….Projecting players isnt an exact science nor is it "brain surgery"…as the old cliche says…"it is what it is"….so for every nice find Aran has b4 the curve like projecting Derek Rose #1 way b4 anyone else did…he has made mistakes as well like his critque of Kevin Love and putting him in the BUST category……http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2008/6/25/559003/q-a-aran-smith-of-nbadraft  No big deal.  Just wanted to post this to show that even "geniuses" arn’t perfect and if some people happen to question Arans logic or Mock Draft, they should be allowed to because everyone makes mistakes.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

No one was calling Aran perfect, but all I was saying was that I felt people’s questioning of some picks was slightly and possibly hypocritical. If you are not making mistakes, than the chances are that you NEVER go out on a limb. I was defending a few picks he made and a few of his assumptions, but I was not calling him Nostradamus. So, if you ever heard me, or someone else, call him perfect, you were looking at things the wrong way. 

[butidonthavemoney]

Aran is perfect…

[The Scare Crow ReturnsParticipant]

At least for a week…He obviously knows how to spot talent and has way more insight than the common guy…the fact people can get so shell shocked by a mock draft and the players moving around at the top is hilarious…I think The sites mock draft is very accurate for the most part, and only when things start happening in real time do things like mock drafts go to hell…what if the Cavs think Kanter has the most size/skill/upside and trade value with the #1 pick (He is coveted by most teams in the league, who doesn’t want a young big man with that much potential)

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

That seriously is ridiculous, sorry to say paradigmn. Norris Cole has been rumored to be somewhere in that area, and while I think the Blazers are his ceiling, and I would probably not rank him that high, he could be up there. There are trades that get made in the draft, some teams happen to like players and will tend to trade up to choose them. Lazar Haywood, Quincy Pondexter and Trevor Booker were all predicted to go in the second round last year and went in the first. Happens every year, and Norris Cole is a freak athlete, and built like a tank. Also, tell me you have never seen a player go above guys you have liked better? It is a Mock Draft, you try to Mock what might happen in the draft. It is not what you would do with the pick, but what the team might do with the pick, whether they use it, trade it or who they want for their system. 

[apb540Participant]

Chad Ford now has Kanter going to the Cavs.  Idk what pick though. 

[DanEboyParticipant]

[paradigmnParticipant]

 LOL…ok…Last time I checked this is a basketball fourm for talking basketball….The day I freak out about a mock draft is the day I should buy a rope and a chair…I actually dont mind Kanter going #1 as much as many other people here do….I was just saying that Aran makes mistakes because I know all of his dominions thinks hes the greatest thing since sliced bread and could never possibly be wrong…Am I not allowed to question the NORRIS COLE pick???  Hope Norris Cole gets selected at 21 and Blazers use there only first round pick on him, which is not a late first round in my mind)1-14 lottery, 15-23 middle, 24-30 late….so If Aran can question "Kevin Love" without all u dudes freakin out over him for doing so….Then the lesser know posters here should be able to questions Arans picks with out yall having to write a book in defense of Aran…Bottom line we are talking about basketball so theres no need to get mad or think people are "over reacting"…these are just friendly discussions.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

" Just wanted to post this to show that even "geniuses" arn’t perfect and if some people happen to question Arans logic or Mock Draft, they should be allowed to because everyone makes mistakes."

You could have just invoked the name Hassan Whiteside.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

And seem to be internet shouting makes it seem that way. If we were just talking we probably would have a fairly simple discussion, and realize that I did indeed remember Hassan Whiteside being the #2 pick at one point last year, and Chris Taft/Kosta Perovic/Nemanja Aleksandrov. Maciej Lampe and Olumide Oyedji are two people that destroyed my Mock Drafts as well. I said nothing about the Kevin Love thing, I watched Kevin in HS, though I never thought he would be this good so soon, though I knew he had double double potential and was an incredibly smart basketball player.

But, while you are allowed to question the Norris Cole thing, I am allowed to question why it needs questioning, as it could indeed happen. Sorry, he WAS in the late first, than moved over that 23 marker into the middle. I will once again say, stranger things have happened, and say that this is trying to read GM’s minds more than rank who is better than who when it comes to Mock Drafts. This is a PG who went for 40 and 20 in a game (though it was against Youngstown St.) and I have heard that he has been talked up.

Craig Brackins was being commented upon as being a second round pick up until a few weeks before last years draft and he went 21st. Sure, he was formerly thought to be a lottery pick, but all it takes is one team to fall in love with a player and he is off the board. Listen man, I am never against someone out when you have some solid evidence or theory, but just saying that you think Selby and Nolan Smith are better players does not necessarily mean they will get drafted higher. If that were the case, than Landry Fields probably would have been picked ahead of Quincy Pondexter and Lazar Heyward. 

[paradigmnParticipant]

 You are right to question me questioning the NORRIS COLE pick…its a free country….but dont cut into me about my posting ????????????????? as a topic…no need to nit pick…and for someone such as yourself that knows basketball so well, moving a couple spots in the first round is ACTUALLY a big deal for $$$ purposes…The Norris Cole thing started when i first saw Aran having him at 24 to the Thunder which i thought was mind boggling….Im pretty sure I am not alone with my opinion about Norris Cole being drafted TOO HIGH at 21.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

I was just trying to tell you why I possibly perceived you as overreacting. Just trying to let you understand an outsiders perception, if you post a bunch of question marks, it seems kind of like overkill. If it were, "Questions About Current Mock Draft: The Norris Cole Story", than maybe we would understand more about the lightheartedness and wanting to talk it over. I know you are not alone in thinking it is TOO HIGH, but I am just saying THESE THINGS HAPPEN. It may be a bad pick, but these mocks are trying to predict what happens, not saying whether so and so is going to have a good or bad draft.  Also, while the money is significantly more for the layman’s purpose, the 130k difference between 21-24 becomes gradually less and less extensively different over time, and does virtually nothing as far as having any effect on the salary cap. 

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale

[paradigmnParticipant]

 Tell Noris Cole that 130K difference aint a big deal….and since we dont even know what the NEW COLLECTIVE BARGINING agreement will be, the differnece between 21-24 could change.

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

 can some people stop b*tching about points and that other sh*t

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Now who is nitpicking? It could happen! My point. Other stuff was just details. Are you Norris Cole’s agent trying not to get his hopes up? "To think that my client could be making 130K more at 21, when he CLEARLY will not go higher than 24  is giving him false hope!"

[paradigmnParticipant]

 mikey all im saying with norris cole is, IMO drafting him at 21 is way too high….I like the kid.  As I said b4 he really impressed me at the combine but there are allot better choices out there for the Blazers.  I won’t get into it because im sure you’ll have a rebuttle for every pick I suggest, so I’ll save my embarassment.  If Sam Bowie can be selected b4 MJ anything can happen…this is why we love the draft…can be very unpredictable….obviously its not out of the realm that Norris falls at the 21 spot, but its highly unlikely.  And if you can argue that Norris Cole deserves to be at around that 21-24 spot then you def are Arans right hand man.

[aamir543Participant]

What! No Money is still alive?! Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!

About the topic, we all make mistakes about players, like I had a feeling Morrison was going to be a bust, but like Aran, I was wrong about Love being a bust. I thought Mayo would be a star, but the jury is still out. I was low on D Rose, and I thought Michael Beasley was a perenial all star, and I was completly wrong. I knew Rudy Gay would be a success, I had a bad feeling about Joe Alexander from the begining, but I also thought Joakim Noah would be out of the league by 2011, so everyone has had successes, and failiures, it is just that Aran is right more often

[BloodyCrumpetParticipant]

🙁

 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

You took a lot of what he was saying incredibly out of context as well. Just like I may be taking what you, paradigmn are saying about me out of context. I find a lot of it incredibly condescending and way off base. All I am defending is the Mock Draft of a person more plugged into draft information than we are. Unless you are going from event to event, flying across the country and have contacts to NBA teams, than you know as much as any of us do. Aran, for the most part, knows more. I am not his right hand man in the least, I make my own decisions and what I write is my thoughts on something.

I try to put myself in people’s shoes and to use logic, you can make all of the suggestions you want, I am not saying you are wrong that they are better picks. I am just saying, you COULD be wrong, so could Aran. But, I think you must even admit that things from this site have swayed you one way or the other, and if Aran said the day before the draft that Norris Cole was going 21, that would be on your Mock Draft. Personally, I do not think he should go that high either, I never said that, but I am saying it could be a possibility and not to write it off as you have been seeming to really enjoy doing so. 

Sorry if I defend a site that has been huge in the way I have viewed the draft since the year 2000, and one that I trust more than some of the people questioning his Mock Draft so indignantly. IT IS NOT ABOUT WHO DESERVES IT! IT IS ABOUT WHO GETS IT! If you want to debate prospects, we can do that. But if we are debating Mock Drafts, than I think I will go with Aran as a source over you, just as I think you would do the same damn thing vice versa.

[aamir543Participant]

Sorry Bloody Crumpet/No Money, I was in a bad mood, the NBA season is almost over, and we dont know when it will be back. As I stated in a previous thread, I was kidding, and i hope we could move on

Sort of like these two.

[paradigmnParticipant]

 My license is suspended…so I cant even drive to basketball events let alone fly to one…LOL…I bow down to Aran when it comes to "information" because he is obviously knee deep in the game and is able to gather much more intel than most others.  You better believe if the night b4 the draft Aran has Norris Cole at say 17 to the knicks, then I will have Norris Cole at 17 to the knicks.  Theres no debating Aran is credible source.  He would know information by talking to GMs or what have you that I am unable to cultivate.  For all I know hes talked to Blazers GM and had confirmation of their draft pick.

 I have not really been too harsh on Arans Mocks as allot of other people.  My main BEEF if you will was the Noris Cole pick.  I am unable to follow Norris as well as Aran as Ive re-iterated 1000 times, so maybe he knows "information" on where Norris will fall that others don’t.  From our conversations it does sound like you think Noris Cole its too high at 21 but if that were the case you woulda just said "I agree" and there wouldnt have been a 2 day discussion about it.  

[BloodyCrumpetParticipant]

I was afraid that I had offended you in some way and it was driving me crazy that I didn’t know what it was.

My spirits are definitely lifted.

[aamir543Participant]

Its all good

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

Norris Cole will be playing in the Rookie/Sophomore game next season..While alot of the lottery picks will be wishing for playing time…

 

[paradigmnParticipant]

 not debating how successful he will be….just stating 21 to the blazers is a bit of a stretch.

[paradigmnParticipant]

 Mock Draft looks better….glad to see Aran brought Norris Cole back to earth and put him at 39 to the Bobcats…where I had him all along.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

 The closer we get to the end of the first round, the more the draft consensus seems to be falling apart. I’ve spent the past two days talking to teams, and a number of people not in our first-round mock are getting serious looks in the first round. Our new Draft Tier Rankings has all of them listed as Tier 6 players. But they could make the first-round cut.

Cleveland State’s Norris Cole and Georgia Tech’s Iman Shumpert seem to be generating the most buzz. Both players have had great workouts. So has UCLA’s Malcolm Lee, who I’m told was excellent in Utah’s workout versus Jimmer Fredette and Kemba Walker. Florida’s Chandler Parsons and Croatia’s Bojan Bogdanovic also have some first-round buzz.

 

 

Cole has wowed with his athletic ability and his ability to get to the basket. I’ve had a couple of teams tell me he’s the fourth-ranked point guard on their board behind Knight, Walker and Fredette. He could go as high as No. 21 to the Blazers.

 

 

Shumpert’s athleticism, defense and size are all standing out as well. He’s also been shooting the ball better, a big plus for him. The Knicks and Nuggets are both looking at him.

 

 

Parsons is coming off a terrific workout in Denver, where he and E’Twaun Moore sound like they stole the show. Parsons has drawn praise wherever he’s gone. He has NBA size and an NBA skill set. If he can prove to teams he has the toughness to make it in the league, he may be a good pick.

 

 

Bogdanovic already has worked out in New Jersey and Houston. He will visit the Thunder on Friday and has the Spurs, Wolves and Celtics also lined up before the draft.

 

 

So, the moral of the story is, IT COULD HAPPEN. Is it questionable to have Norris Cole that high? Absolutely. Could a team like what they see and be willing to use a "mid-first round pick" (in the parameters of that being 15-23) on a player that impresses them and they could envision playing a role on their team, instead of a player with more "potential", who could also turn out to be out of the league in a few years? Well, my long run-on sentence happens all of the time in the NBA. I am thinking that clearly, at the time, Aran was hearing things of this nature.

Also, this was on realgm.com today:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/214161/Kanters_Agent_Thinks_Cavs_Could_Take_Him_First_Overall

 

Again, not sure I believe whatever snake oil salesman is representing Kanter, but it is at least a possibility. I still think at this point the Cavs take Irving and the Blazers take Faried, but would I be surprised if Norris Cole went much higher than expected? Not really. I also would not be surprised if someone currently thought to be a first round lock slips into mid-second. Happens every year, they are never easy to predict, but after all, we are not inside the process and inside these teams heads. All we can do is try to figure them out, and Aran usually has pretty solid guidelines for that.

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