[JonOatsParticipant]

 UConn and Baylor both lose at home today and their suppposed top ten picks in the next year’s draft were awful against teams without legit big men.

Drummond 3-8 for 7 points, 4 rebs and fouled out

Perry Jones 2-6 for 4 points, 4 rebs and fouled out

It’s laughable that these two are still getting hyped by NBA scouts and others who get sucked in by highlights that show their "upside". Neither one has done anything against good teams all year. Why even play a year of college if your results don’t matter. So dumb.

[FearTheStacheParticipant]

 To be fair, Drummond, although I do admit he had a crappy game, did not really get many quality minutes. In the UConn system, they treat the 2 halfs like 4 quarters. If you get a foul within the first 10 minutes, you sit until the last 10 minutes of the first half. If you get 2 fouls in the first half, you sit until the end of the half. Drummond fouled at the beginning of both halfs, and in turn, played sparce minutes. Also, besides the beginning games where Drummond had the facemask, he has played very well. Being a center prospect in the NCAA, it can be difficult to showcase your talents, because many times you are forced to guard the perimeter. I didn’t watch the Baylor game, but I do know that Drummon has been playing pretty well for most of the season.

[NihochuParticipant]

i think NBA teams focus too much on potential and non enough on production, i like Perry Jones i think he is good and will be even better in the future but im not too high on drummond , i watched him last year and it seemed to me like he plays without any initiative or poise and just too get some dunks … i may be wrong but i think potential is rated a little to high sometiems

[JonOatsParticipant]

 He’s had 3 good games (Notre damn, GTown, DePaul), 1 average game (Syracuse), and 5 truly awful games (Cincy, Tenn, Seton Hall, Louisville, and Marquette). 

By terrible I mean a combined 11-38 from the field…29% 

Jones isn’t quite as bad, but has the luxury of playing worse teams night in and night out. Anytime he gets up against a decent big guy he lays an egg though. Missouri and KU twice and West Virginia all were god awful. 

 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

That is for sure, but you will regret letting either of these guys slip too far. You cannot teach the height and athleticism of these two players. Here are games Drummond had against good teams:

12, 10 and 7 blocks in a win over Florida State (Bernard James is kind of a beast)

20 (9-11 FG), 11 and 2 blocks in a win over West Virginia (Kevin Jones destroyed Perry Jones)

12.5 and 12 splitting two games with Notre Dame

18 (9-12 FG) against Georgetown (They lost, but Andre beasted on Henry Sims and could not be stopped. Unfortunately, everyone else could)

So, he has had a few good games, as has Perry Jones (though, besides BYU and Oklahoma State, he has not exactly torn things up against decent comp). They may be works in progress, but you can work with 6’11 and athletic as hell. Have no idea if either is an All-Star or franchise player, they are not playing like it right now, but they will be NBA players who have a good chance of making a solid impact on whatever team drafts them.

 

[PrometheusParticipant]

 Drummond reminds me of Derrick Favors, not necessarily because of his game, but because of all the hype surrounding his potential.  Favors averaged something like 12 points and 8 boards in 1 year at Georgia Tech.  Drummond is averaging around 10 points and 8 boards this year.  Both have been coveted because of their potential but havent really shown anything fantastic yet…I guess drafting based on potential is a risk/reward type of play, but I think that potential is a bit overvalued by scouts.  Maybe Drummond has the body and athletiism of a young Amare Stoudamire, and maybe he can do the things that Amare can do, but that doesnt mean that he will be able to do those things consistantly.  I mean, if im standing at the freethrow line, I have the ability to make 100 out of 100 shots.  That doesnt mean that I will.

[JonOatsParticipant]

 Meyers Leonard who’s over 7 feet and putting up better numbers and is same age as Jones and only a year older than Drummond. Leonard has a definite position unlike the other two and just as much room to improve. 

The trend of taking these types of players should have come back to earth by now. GMs never learn despite all the Kwame Browns, Darkos, Tyrus Thomases out there that have never reached their "potential".

Everyone would hate to let the next Kobe or KG slip past them, but how many are kicking themselves for letting established college players fall down the draft ladder so they could take someone with huge upside. 

Marvin Williams taken over CP3, Deron

Darko over Wade

Anthony Randolph over R Hibbert, 

Patrick O’Bryant over JJ Redick

Brandon Wright over pretty much anyone else after him in the draft

You can do this almost every year. I was lucky enough to be able to do my capstone paper on early entry and the success rate of NBA players compared to the amount of college experience they had. Although there were extreme examples from both sides, the most successful players (years in the league, years as a starter, and number of All-Star appearances) were those who entered the draft as sophmores and juniors. So talented enough to come out early but seasoned enough to succeed by playing at least two years of college ball. 

The lack of success is especially true of players without a true position. Didn’t mean for this to be so long.

[finneganParticipant]

Terrence jones > perry jones. Perry is overated while Terrence is underated. I expect a monster season for perry jones this year but it wont happen. Both players had almost the same numbers but don’t forget that Terrence jones was playing on much talented team with much talented teammates, playing at the same time with 2 super frontcourt teammates (davis and MKG) that’s not easy to compete with those guys every game. I don’t think perry jones can average double digit in scoring and more than 5 rebounds, if he had an Anthony davis and MKG teamates.

Im not high on Drummond, this guy is only hype like favors, so as perry jones but I prefer perry jones over Drummond.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 College production does not translate to the NBA.  Every year people put up great numbers in college and either go undrafted in the NBA or just stink once they get their.

Rondo fell in the draft because he didn’t put up great numbers in college.

Adam Morrison went over Rudy Gay because of his college production.  Rudy Gay and PJ3 are very similar and Rudy is playing at an All Star level in the league.

You can’t just look at box scores and think you know the whole story.  I’ve watch a ton of Baylor games and I would still take Perry Jones in the top 5 because he has all the tools to become succesful in the league.  PJ3 is going to thrive in the NBA because their is more floor spacing and teams can’t just crowd his area on offense.  Not to mention Baylor offense is a mess.  They do a terrible job of getting their best players the ball.  Jones is their best player so how does he only get 6 shots?  It makes no sense.  I’ve watched so many Baylor games where the ball just never finds Perry despite the defender guarding him not being able to stop him.  He has a ton of pro ready moves already.  He can post up and go over either shoulder but I like him even more playing SF.  He’s so fast and at 6’11 not only can he guard SF’s but he can exploit them nightly on offense.  He has a very good turnaround jumper and is also good off 2 dribbles pulling up.

Some players are just better suited for the NBA and Perry Jones is one of them players.  Drummond is too because he’ll also benefit from the floor spacing in the league and playing with guards who know how to get him the ball.

The zone defenses in college and the crowded courts neutralize what makes these players so special.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Where were your samples from? Yes, a lot of great players played two years of college basketball. But, 8 out of 10 All-Star starters played one year or no college basketball. Andre Drummond is a different athlete than any of those players listed. Plus, he absolutely has a position. Meyers Leonard is not as long (bet that Drummond has a longer standing reach), athletic or strong as Drummond. That is why even if Andre is a freshman, he will be a high pick.

So what about Kobe Bryant going 13th? Josh Smith going 17th? Gerald Wallace going 25th? It absolutely works both ways. You may be apprehensive about Drummond’s ability, but his only playing one year of college basketball has little to do with whether he will succeed or fail. You might not like him as a prospect or think he is a franchise player, but at least he will be a year more mentally and physically mature for when he does play in the NBA.

 

[JonOatsParticipant]

 It was from the years of 1995 thru 2010 and accumlated the totals for players drafted and then some analysis of their careers. I’ll try to dig up the numbers but I spent months on it and percentage wise sophomores and juniors were more successful overall. I remember because I was so suprised by the outcome.

And guys that went straight from HS obv are harder to evaluate than the system we have now. But if Drummond and Jones aren’t successful now against college competition why do people think they will be against NBA players. And not that many teams use zones. Jones is the third best player most nights for Baylor. He may jump the highest and run the fastest but he isn’t the best player. 

And he is so different than Rudy Gay it makes my head hurt to compare them. Gay was a 40% 3 point shooter at UConn and they were 30-4 and made it to the Elite Eight. 

Jones shoots 25% from three and doesn’t rebound well for a 6’11" guy. I don’t think he can guard any position in the NBA. Most alarming is how rarely he gets to the free throw line. There have been 14 games (out of 23) in which he’s taken 2 free throws or fewer. There’s no excuse for that. He’s soft plain and simple.

[bloodshyParticipant]

I’m not necessarily confident about either prospect’s success/failure in the NBA.  I’ve only watched Andre in one game this year and he was an absolute beast.  He looked like he could potentially be a dominant force at the next level.  As for PJ3, I’m less convinced.  I’ve seen him in several games this year and he disappears on every side of the ball.  Even in the BYU game where he had his best #s of the year, he didn’t look dominant.  In that game the bulk of his production came from the outside–he simply had a good game because his shot was on.  He did almost no damage in the paint where BYU doubled Baylor’s production despite Baylor being taller/longer at every position.  Davies moved Perry around at will down there.  Aside from Perry’s put back jam at the end, nothing he did stood out.

That said, Perry is still tall w/impressive speed/hops, so anything could happen.  But like many others have posted here, he really does seem soft.  It would be sad for someone w/his talent to disappear, but I just see no fire there.

[bloodshyParticipant]

To be clear, I still think picking Andre #1 or letting Perry slide out of the lottery would be idiocy.  Davis has been too good to give Andre the nod and Perry has way too much potential as a wing @ the next level to let him slip too far.  Even if Perry has a 1 in 10 chance of making it, he’d be worth a late lotter pick imo.  His potential splash could be very big.

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

Wish he would have came out. He has gained nothing. If his coach was a good coach he would take more than 6 shots. That coach does not know how to use him. I still like his game in the L. Perry will not play in the post nightly in NBA. Lane stays congested in college ball. I am still high on him even though this season looks disappointing. Have not seen enough of Drummond but he looked good the one game I got to sit and watch. College game is for guards.

[FastAndFuriousParticipant]

Perry Jones really just waited a year to be a millionaire lol thats the only thing he is proving in his decision to come back to college for another year.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 Perry has improved as a player tho this is another reason you guys can’t just look at his numbers but at the way he plays, and the shots he’s able to hit now.  As a freshman Jones didn’t always look condident taking 20 footers, he does this year.  Not to mention he’s playing LESS MINUTES then his freshman year but he’s still putting up better numbers across the board even if they are marginally better they are better.

By the fact that you said Perry can’t guard any position in the pro’s just shows your ignorance and the fact that you have probably never even watching him play then you’d have a better understanding of why his numbers look the way they do.  He can guard 3 posistions at the next level when it’s all said and done.  Also Perry has put on a lot of weight and his frame has filled out fantastically, he’s around 245 right now and hasn’t loss any of his speed or explosiveness.  
 

Jones is very hard worker as evidenced by the weight he’s put on and how many moves he’s added to his game this season.  He also wants to be great and that’s one of the reason he came back, he didn’t care about the millions he wants to make an impact on the league when he get’s there.  

And Perry Jones is Baylor;s 3rd best player? What?  Name 2 other players on that team who have the talent that Jones does.  Quincy Miller is the only arguemnt but as bad a year Jones is having he’s still having a considerably better year then Quincy.  

And that BYU game was a great example of how Perry Jones should be used on a nightly basis and he is the only reason Baylor one that game yet you come away from that game saying he is soft despite him mixing it up all night inside and showing his rare intense emetional side down the stretch?

And I didn’t make up the Rudy Gay comparison they are in similar situations because they played on college teams with a lot of talent around them, Rudy’s team went to the elite 8 because like 7 players from that team went to the NBA.  But Rudy played within the flow of the offense and didn’t dominate like people thought he could.  Perry does the same thing, he’s not a selfish player he does what it takes to win which is why Baylor was 22-4 going into todays game.  And Baylor has more then enough talent to make a run to the elite 8.  But no way Perry should of been 5th on the team in shot attempts today, like how does Quincy Acy get twice as many shot attempts as Perry, cuz he’s a SR?

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

I obviously, if you read my posts, do not have much faith in him either. But, for as soft as he is at 6’11, I think that he will still be an absolute lottery pick. The guy scares the hell out of me if you are expecting him to be a franchise player and he is not Rudy Gay (in the least. Though I think he was just saying that Rudy Gay was seen as not being overly assertive, much like Perry Jones), but he is 6’11 and he can indeed get better.

His major issue is he is not a SF as much as everyone wants him to be and he is not a good post player. Straight up, he could have issues, but the upside is definitely there. Plus, he is after all, a sophomore, which works with your system. Your system seems to count overall averages, but there are definite extremes it leaves out. The fact is, many of the best players in the past few years have not been in college more than 2 years.

Before Blake Griffin won rookie of the year last season, 3 one and done guys in a row took it home. Kyrie Irving is probably going to win it this year. I am not at all surprised about sophomores having a high success rate as a whole, early entry has changed a lot through the years and most players tend to play a couple of years in college. The problem of course would be that the guys who were HS guys would now be one and done. Since they were split into two separate quadrants, it probably messed with the statistics. As long as you got a good grade, I suppose.

With Andre, I just flat out feel he at the worst will be a center you would not mind starting on your team. He has a lot to work on as far as positioning, but you can’t teach his size and athleticism. For as bad as people tend to think Kwame Brown and Darko Milicic are, they still have jobs in the NBA and get minutes. I think Andre has tools and athleticism that dwarf both of them. I might be worried about his mental game, but he has given encouraging performances when challenged.

People telling me he is like Derrick Favors does nothing to make me change my opinion. I am actually thinking that Derrick Favors will become a very productive PF when he finally gets his chance to shine. The guy is strong and athletic, I like what I have seen of him when watching the Jazz this season. Andre has scared me as well, but his is a team that I find hard to believe does not work it inside-out. Drummond can establish post position and they still choose to pound the rock on the perimeter.

Well, to me, Drummond having a chance to be one of those centers who crushes other centers at the next level due to his size and strength, that is enough for me to gamble on him with a very high pick. I find when Andre gets pushed, he pushes back. That is why I like him even with all of his inconsistency. I also have a feeling that Andre is the type of guy who might eat Meyers Leonard for lunch. Leonard has bulked up quite a bit, but Drummond still has 20 pounds on the dude. So, from a physical stand point, that is where I see Drummond being a major prospect.

[JonOatsParticipant]

You’re talking about the same guy who fouled out in 22 min today right? He averages more fouls than steals and blocks combined. I’m not huge on blocks being important, but come one. If he’s so much more talented (stronger, faster, jumps higher) why isn’t he doing those things?

Did you watch the KU and Missou games last week? He’s the same pussy he was last year. Dominates bad teams and goes and hides against the good ones. BYU is not good. Blown out twice by St Mary’s and Baylor beat them by three.

Pierre Jackson breaks down defenders and gets Jones lots of easy inside shots is the only reason he’s shooting as high a percentage as he is. So yeah he can stand on the block and catch lobs. That’s all I saw him do last time the played KState.

And Jones is getting 11 shots a game. Plenty of touches. If I was creating a track and field team out of college players, he’d be high on the list of guys I’d take but he won’t be a starter in the NBA. His shot attempts are up this year, his fg% is down, his scoring is exactly the same and he’s playing 1 less min per game.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but try using some facts now and then too.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 Pierre Jackson wasn;t on the team last year and Jones was actually shooting a higher %.  Other then his shooting % which is still good, Jones is putting up better numbers across the board in less minutes.  He never even had a 20-10 game until he had 2 consecutive games this year.  Theres no doubt he’s a better player for returning and has also added a lot of weight to his frame and is playing out of position at C the whole time he is on the court.  Despite all this Baylor has lost the last 3 games when Jones hasn’t scored in double digits.  They are all facts.

[JonOatsParticipant]

Perry Jones is very similiar in production, attitude(aka pussy), and skill set as Austin Daye. But austin is a better shooter. Austin’s getting 15 min a game and is still a dissappointment in his third year now. He has started 21 games though. That should be a good goal for Jones.

@mickeyvthedon

About the  one and done players getting rookie of the year awards lately. Tyreke was one of those and if they redrafted 2009 would he be picked ahead of Blake, Harden, Curry, Rubio, Jennings, Lawson?

And like in 2008 for every Rose that’s a freshman ready to be a star, there’s a Beasley (#2 pick and lots of people thought should have been #1 after his monster freshman year), or an OJ Mayo (#3 pick after his freshman year).

There’s no perfect way to evaluate players but the more you see of them the better chance you have of making a good decision. And when the little you get to see has huge red flags I don’t understand why GM’s and scouts keep thinking back to that huge play someone had in an AAU game over a year ago. 

[JonOatsParticipant]

 3 % up from 20 to 26% which is an improvement, but still awful. And now he shoots four times as many threes than he did last year. So that isn’t really a good thing in my opinion. 

He’s getting .4 more rebounds a game. Way to step up.

He’s getting to the free throw line 33% less and shooting a slightly worse percentage when he does get there.

Was there something else I’m missing? Turnovers slightly down, steals slightly up, blocks slightly down. 

Baylor’s also won 5 times when he was in single digits and won the first 5 games on the season pretty handily without him. That seems like a lot of games in single digits for a star. 

For comparison Harrison Barnes has scored in single digits 3 times all year and they were in blow outs that he only played 25 min or less in. They’re the same age by the way. Barnes has shown how you improve your game coming back. Less threes taken, higher percentage made, getting to the free throw line more. And in 2 whole mins less per game. That’s double the less minutes. Yes I’m making fun of you.

And I thought Perry could guard three positions in the pros so guarding centers in college should be a breeze. And offensively whats the difference from him playing center or power forward? 

[Mr. 19134Participant]

That’s double the less minutes? What does that even mean?  And you’re making fun of me?  Whatever makes you feel better bud.  My college degree and being a vet in the Army makes me feel better not acting like a jack@$$ on blogs.

Yeah Barnes has improved his game a lot more and that’s why he’s unanimously ranked ahead of Jones nobody is comparing them.  So what Barnes improved his game more so Jones didn’t?  I don’t get what you’re trying to say his numbers aren’t major improvements so that means he hasn’t improved?  If you watched him play last year and watched him play this year you’re going to see obvious improvements to his game.

Plus Baylor is a lot deeper this year.  Are you trying to say that Terrence Jones hasn’t improved from last year to this year because his numbers are down?  Because if you watch him play he’s a much better player.

He’s also playing less minutes this year so he’s might be only averaging half a rebound more but he’s doing in less minutes on a team with more talent.

And you really don’t know enough about basketball to have to ask what’s the difference between a Center and PF offensively?  A Center is a pivot that you want controlling the paint.  On offense they are going to mostly be relagated to fighting for position inside and controlling the low blocks.  A PF on offense is going to get more touches outside of the paint.  A PF you usually want to control the high post where they can get the ball at the foul line and shoot or drive or pass down low.  They also get the ball along the baseline instead of on the low block where once again they can either shoot or use their speed to get by defender and to the rim.
 

A big example of this is Amare and Tyson Chandler.  The Knicks had to sign Tyson Chandler because Amare refused to play C. Tim Duncan is another one who hates playing C.  Notice the Spurs start a 6’7 Dejuan Blair at Center because Duncan don’t want to play it.  

On offense you want Perry in the high post more then fighting for position on them super crowded college lanes.  This uses his skills to his advantage.  John Cal does a great job of this with Anthony Davis who even tho Davis is playing Center on offense he’s usually in the high post or picking and rolling which is usually the PF’s job while Terrence goes underneath a lot because he’s stronger.  Scott Drew had no idea how to use players to their advantages like John Cal does.

And see the other post about Baylor why Jones don’t get more blocks.  They play the most retarded zone I’ve ever saw in my life where they are relegated to their certain spots on the floor and do not help.  So instead of making Jones a weakside shot blocking threat they make him stay in his position on the floor.  And I was talking about offense him playing out of position no defense he can guard any player on the floor in college so it doesn’t matter.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

Has anybody else read JonOats Mock Draft? LMAO!!!! WTF? Marshall going 2nd, Sullinger going one?  Readlly Jon?  Really tho? 

[JonOatsParticipant]

 no difference between how they use a center and a pf. Acy and Jones get the same number of touches down low and on the outside or high post. If Perry is forced to bang down low so much why is he shooting 1 three/game? and Acy has taken 5 all year (and made 3). Acy should get more shots. He shoots better than Perry across the board. He rebounds equally (7.1 to 7.6 ). and oh yeah he’s 6’7" and plays less minutes

The Spurs use Blair cause he’s strong and can bang down low and takes some pressure off Duncan. I’d take Blair over Perry anyday. He’s another guy that people doubted because he wasn’t long or athletic. Or all the things that Perry is. But he’s a gamer. 

One less min a game makes absolutely no difference in how you should view their stats. That was my point. And the post I put out above showed how Jones has regressed in a lot of ways. 

And if he fouls out playing a zone where he’s just standing there, what makes you think he can guard anyone man to man? Nevermind having to guard bigger strong opponents. 

 

[JonOatsParticipant]

 so much for that Army background keeping you from being a jackass. It’s my ranking of the players how I think they’ll perform as pros. And your punctuation is almost as bad as your spelling. You write like 12 year old girls text message. I’ll take Sullinger, Barnes, and Marshall over your all-hype team of Davis, Drummond, and Jones. And where is your Mock? No guts. Woo rahh. Davis will go number one and be a bust.

[JonOatsParticipant]

The rest of your posts had so many holes in them I ended up missing a few of the dumb things you said trying to prove a point of yours that are just wrong. Rondo’s numbers in college were fine. Pro scouts doubted whether he could shoot from the outside well enough to be a good pro. The high upside guys taken ahead of him that year were Patrick O’Bryant, Tyrus Thomas, Sene, Cedric Simmons, and Shawne Williams. They were long, blocked shots, and some could guard multiple positions too. 

Hmmmmm. Underrated PG who can get to the lane. Good size for a PG. Very creative but questionable outside shot. Why does that sound so familiar? 

[Mr. 19134Participant]

What that makes it even better? That you think Sullinger and Marshall will be the 2 best players in this draft.  That you told me the other day Marshall can average over 10apg and less then 3 t.o.’s per game in the league right now is beyond ridiculous.  

BTW nice triple double Sullinger had the other day with 10 turnovers.  That was part of a 3 game span where he was one foul shy of fouling out of every game but you think he’s gonna be better then Anthony Davis?  Who get’s 5 times more blocks a game then turnovers which is just absurd.  Don’t worry he’s also a better rebounder then Sullinger since you think blocks are so overrated.  It makes you wonder if you ever even played basketball.  

And college production does not correlate to NBA production.  Micheal Beasley was the most dominant rebounding freshman I ever heard of in college but did that translate?

You lack a massive amount of intelligence and foresight.  You don’t have the ability to view a prospect and their talents and understanding how they can utitlize that in the NBA.  

But I guess everybody else are the idiots and you’re the genius right?  Like every single person who covers basketball, all these scouts and GM’s who have been doing this there whole life and know exactly what to look for in prospects are wrong right?  

You ever wonder why you get so many negatives?  Like you’re post are ridiculous.  I’m not even gonna bring up your trade idea earlier which was absurd.  

And it’s impossible to make a real mock without knowing the exact draft order, these mocks are nothing more then big boards.  But i can tell you Anthony Davis is etched in as the number one pick as he is on every single NBA team’s big board in the NBA.

 

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 Are you seriously comparing Rondo to Marshall cuz they’re not even close as prospects.  I was a big Rondo fan at Kentucky because he was a beast at Oak Hill and I’m not really sure how he dropped in that draft but I can only guess it was because of people like you who selected the likes of Sheldon Williams (Sullinger anybody?) ahead of him.  Or Rudy Gay dropping to 8 then being traded for Battier because scouts questioned his mental makeup and motor and called him soft and only averaged 14ppg as a sophomore so players like Adam Morrison and his "College Production" went ahead of him.

And even tho Rondo had a shaky jumpshot he still averaged 11 points and shot 50% in college on a team that wasn’t filled with All Americans so he had to work harder for his shot.  Plus Rondo was an elite athlete who locked people down on defense.  When you put that into consideration no he don’t sound nothing like anybody in this draft.

And what does Moultrie do better then Davis?  Why don’t you look at Moultrie freshman numbers.  And Arnett only has like 10 pounds on Davis right now which is expected considering he’s 3 years older. 

[JonOatsParticipant]

 scores and  rebounds better than Davis. 

I guess it’s easy for you to just repeat all the same stuff you read and hear from the experts on who’ll be a good pro. You’ve never noticed that they get it wrong. Ever. Single. Year. 

So just keep doing what you’re told soldier boy. Step that line and suckle on the same old tired info. 

Where did you play ball? 

You questioned that before about me. I walked on to the University of Oklahoma in 1999. 

And being a player says nothing about evaluating talent. Jordan is a terrible GM/owner.

I’ve already said that there’s no perfect way to evaluate or measure players but I’m going to say what I think and have done a hellva beter job backing up what I say than you have. And I don’t post for getting thumbs up. People here think John Wall will be a HOFer. Sportscenter has ruined the idea of what makes a good player. 

Rant over. But please proof read your posts or at least think about them for a minute or two. You sound like a child at your best and a mentally challenged person at your worst.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 Yeah then what is your name?  I don’t beleive you.  I think you’re some little boy from the suburbs who probably get’s sheltered by their parents because you don’t know how to talk to people which means you probably never actually had friends who went out places because if you did you would know what it felt like to get punched in the mouth.  Only people who never been in a fight their whole life talk this reckless on the internet cuz they can get away with it.  

Nobody agrees with what you say ever because it’s just nonsense.  Go look at your post have you ever wondered why you get so many negatives, and I don’t even like the thumbs down system but then somebody like you comes along and reminds me why we have to keep it.   And yeah ex players are some of the worse GM’s so if you really did play that’s probably why you succ so bad at projecting who is going to be successful at the next level.  

You should really make a thread about your mock and who you think is going to be good at the next level and just see how many people agree with you and keep it exactly the way it is.  Proove me wrong get people to believe you because right now you’re one of the most (Insert derogatory term based on mental capacity here) I’ve ever saw post in this sight.

I will keep serving my country in the Army because somebody has to do it considering only 1.5% of the American population serves in the Armed Forces because the rest don’t have balls enough and I joined after I finished Temple.   Your punk @$$ wouldn’t even make it 2 weeks in basic training let alone driving around in 130 degree weather in Afghanistan with 80 pounds of gear in full battle rattle, in a Taliban controlled provice  looking for I.E.D’s in humvees that aren’t even designed for direct hits just Dukes system which james remote detonated bombs but not command detonated ones.  But you like most of Americas don’t care about none of that cuz you didn’t live through and just take every freedom we protect for granted.  

 

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

1 Thing people keep forgetting is that in the 50’s & 60’s incoming recruits had to sit out their 1st season..In the 70’s & 80’s alot of coaches like Dean Smith, rarely played their freshmen ,no matter how highly regarded or talented he was..Thats why everyone made such a big deal of Micheal Jordan hitting that shot during the championship game..People werent expecting much from freshmen back then..

But today,people want guys to come in right away and dominant..And some guys have a hard time making that adjustment to the college game right away..David Robinson or Dwayne Wade werent considered nba prospects after their freshman year…

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

mr. zip code-vs-jonoats….i love these internet battles…hahahaha

[BrentSuriaga01Participant]

What about that Bismack Biyombo guy? He’s a pretty good blocker but his offensive prowess does not deserve any NBA recognition at all…. not even close also to the D-League. That Vucevic in Philly is productive in college.It turns out he’s the better guy over Biyombo

[YurpleHazEParticipant]

I see a lot of feelings where caught in this thread:…..

[JoeWolf1]

 I believe that Perry Jones will have an NBA career, and be somewhat productive.  When you watch him, you see his tools, but he continues to disappoint when attempting to put them all together.  He is really nice around the rim and finishing with both hands, yet he often doesn’t get into good position or gets pushed out of position by smaller guys.

He has a nice jump shot, but is only a 65% FT shooter.  It’s not bad, but you’d think a guy who was heralded for being a great jump shooter would be better.  He also has failed to prove he can shoot a college, let alone an NBA 3.  

Also, I think he is a stretch 4 in the NBA.  He has the potential to guard some NBA 3’s but I haven’t seen him be successful against any 3’s in the NCAA because he is often guarding the opposing team’s center.

I realize the NBA is different, but I don’t see a star in Perry Jones, despite his tools.  Some guys can put it together and some guys can’t.  I don’t think Jones is one that will.  I think he is still a guy who is worth a gamble in the lotto, even as high as 8 or 9 depending on who is picking, but to pass on MKG, Sullinger or Robinson to get Jones would be a mistake.

Jones is talented, and I think he’s going to be a 10 ppg 6 rpg guy on his career, but not a star.  He has failed to prove he can take over an NCAA game against a good team.  I know the NBA game is different, but that is a mind set and a will to dominate that I don’t feel he has.  Guys who get owned by other NCAA picks in college don’t drop 15-20 against pros.  His athleticism and tools will allow him to stay in the league and produce somewhat, as a role player but he’s not a top 5 pick.  

[JonOatsParticipant]

 but this douche keeps making it personal. He doesn’t pay attention to what I post, but uses it as an excuse to let out his frustrations and vent about how rough the Army is.So here is my final repsonse to this idiot.

My dad served in the Air force for 5 years during the 70’s. My sister is in Afganistan right now. She also is one of the wimpiest people I’ve ever known. You couldn’t get a real job so you joined the Army. That’s fine, but I don’t care. Our freedom hasn’t been threatened since WWII. We just like to blow stuff up and force our views on other people. So I can see the appeal it had for you. 

I don’t care if people agree with me. I don’t need the validation of getting lots of thumbs up. I like to see what other basketball fans have to say. 

I also don’t care if you believe me about playing at OU. My name is Jon Oats and I can email you my whole basketball history if you are that obsessed about it. Other than that I’m done with this personal battle. 

Unless you ever make it out to Las Vegas because I’m no little kid. I’m 6’4" (6’5" with shoes to you) 195 lbs and I love to fight. 

[PrometheusParticipant]

 http://www.soonerstats.com/basketball/men/players/roster.cfm?SeasonID=1999

Where are you JonOats!?

 

[Mr. 19134Participant]

@JonWolfe, That what I been saying he has all the tools to become a very good pro player, cuz he already has pro moves.  But 10 n 6?   I think Perry becomes a very good 2nd or 3rd option who can give you 17ppg, 7.5rpg, 2 apg, 1 steal and 1 blocl.

 @Prometheus   JonOats never played basketball he’s a delusional liar.  

I have college degree from Temple University and even with that yes it is hard to get a job I’m not gonna front like a baller but I joined the Army for the challenge and wanting to be apart of something real.  Instead of most people like you hiding behind your moinitor.  You’re the worse type of people. 

And Just for the record out freedom hasn’t been threatened since WWII? Really Jon?  Did you not see them planes hit the towers?  Do you not realize our operations in Afhganistan have stopped so many terrorists attacks on our soil most igornat people like you wouldn’t believe.  Do you even know what Osuma was planning on buying a Nuke from Pakistan and aiming it at America?  But You’re too dumb stupid and slow to care about any of that.  Our Freedom is threatened everyday moron.  

And I would like to talk basketball but this dude is something else he’ not smar enough to talk about basketball.  He thinks Sullinger and Marshall are going to be the 2 best players from the draft.  He thinks Marshall is not only better then John Wall but can average over 10apg and less then 3 t.0.s in the league today.  He’s obviously not living in the same reality we are.  

He sounds like some wacked out Mef Head.

JonOats said "I love to fight" CTFU!!! Nobody whose tough likes to fight only drunk loser who start trouble like to fight.  Yeah well my email adress is [email protected] I’ll even buy your plane tickets to come out to Philly.

 

 

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 You said you played in OU with Najera in ’99 well here is the roster:

#

Player (14)

Class

Pos

HT

WT

Hometown

High School

42

Ainooson, Richard

SO

G

6-2

165

Oklahoma City, OK

Midwest City

32

Avila, Victor

JR

C

6-10

255

Culiacan, Mexico

3

Cano, Michael

FR

G

6-1

160

San Antonio, TX

Tom C. Clark

15

Cook, Lang

SR

G

6-3

185

Miami, FL

Hialeah-Miami Lakes

14

Heskett, Tim

SO

G

6-1

185

Lexington, SC

Lexington

24

Humphrey, Ryan

SO

F

6-8

225

Tulsa, OK

Booker T. Washington

10

Johnson, Michael

SR

G

6-0

170

Las Vegas, NV

Rancho

30

Martin, Eric

SR

G/F

6-5

210

Louisville, KY

Fairdale

21

Najera, Eduardo

JR

F

6-8

235

Chihuahua, Mexico

Cornerston Christian (San Antonio)

20

Newton, Kelley

JR

G

6-2

195

Kansas City, KS

Wyandotte

11

Raymond, J. R.

FR

G

6-2

180

Gastonia, NC

Mount Zion

22

Reztsov, Oleg

JR

C

7-2

235

Kiev, Ukraine

44

Spaulding, Alex

G

Burlington, NC

Williams

33

Stone, Renzi

JR

C

6-10

255

Tulsa, OK

Jenks

Am I missing something or is Jon Oats not on here.

[JoeWolf1]

 @Mr. 19134, I think the only way he could get those kind of numbers is if he were playing in a high octaine offensive system with a great point guard.  I know you actually watch Baylor games, and doesn’t it ever strike you as unsettling when he makes a great move and then you forget he’s on the court for 5 or 6 minutes?  He’s a guy whos talent allows him to be a 2nd or 3rd option in Baylor, it doesn’t seem like he has that desire to take over.

I just don’t think he’s aggressive enough on offense to get those kind of number, which is why I don’t think he’ll develop into a 2nd or 3rd option.  I’ll totally own my prediction if I’m wrong, as I’ve been pretty vocal about it for the past few months, but I think the only way he’ll be that kind of player is if he gets in the right system with a point guard who is a great distributer.  I just think he’ll be an underwhelming pro considering his hype.

[JNixonParticipant]

Get Perry Jones a real PG and I think we will see him flourish. Baylor has alot of size and talent in the frontline, but they do not have a floor general PG. Pierre Jackson is not a real PG, he’s a short player with great athleticism and speed, but not a guy who will make teammates better. Jones is a tweener right now, he’s not a great perimeter player or a polished post player, but he will be a good NBA player in time. He has too much physical talent and skill not to be. I think Coach Drew has mishandled Baylor the last 2 years considering the talent in some ways, and one of the ways is by how he’s used Perry Jones. Jones needs more fire, but he should get more than 6 shots. That’s coaching. Guard play gets you a title run, frontline talent gets you a 2-and out or Sweet 16 run at best. Baylor looks destined for that if their guards continue to be shaky. Jackson looks entertaining with the way he plays, but he is not getting guys better. Jones has been effected too

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

 Pj3 is not having a good year…he probably shouldve came out last year…but i still really have high hopes…Pitino called him the best prospect 2 summers ago, and i just dont think hes in the right system in Baylor…people expect him to bang down low but i really dont see that in him…yes hes 6’11 but so is Durant (no im not saying he is Durant)…at beast i think he can be like a bigger McGrady if he gets a shot…at worst he will be a more offensive minded Anthony Randolph…those arent bad things really…you cant teach the kind of athletism and speed he has at 6’11…i would take him over a guy like Sullinger anyday, because what ive seen from Sullinger is a slow, undersized big man, who plays under the rim…he also doesnt play with the same kind of talent on his team like PJ3 has (miller, acy, etc.)…i think it will take Pj3 awhile, but the upside is there and you got to see it

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 Yes @JohnWolf you are right.  But you’ll also notice he’ll make 2 great moves that turn into scores and the next 5 times down the court you got Jackson gunning away tho he’s shooting a great % and Acy is the SR he wants to get involved, Q is too talented not to get shots, Heslip will shoot everytime he touches the ball behind the 3 point line.

They’re offense if too spread out for him to takoever because Drew won’t go with the hot hand.  However I’ve noticed increased leadership from Perry this year.  You’ll noticing him huddling the team and being the one talking and in crunch time it seems like his intensity goes to another level.

But he does become complacent but that’s what happens when the ball don’t find you.  
And yes he would absolutly flourish in an uptempo system with a good PG.  

What teams in the lottery do you think he would fit.  The Wizards and Toronto would be nice fits if he can play SF.

And I agree wit JayNix 100%

 

[Ghost01Participant]

 I think that both Drummond and PJIII have potential to be solid NBA players. However, this should not guarantee that they are NBA stars. Comparing Jones to Gay seems easy, however Gay was the best player on a top 3 team in college hoops 2005-2006. So I don’t want to hear that he wasn’t producing. Drummond doesn’t get minutes like most would like. You know why? Because he isn’t good enough to play more, and gets into foul trouble. 

[Author]

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