This topic contains 34 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by nill650 10 years, 7 months ago.
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- Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 11:45am #61872
trelos6ParticipantTwo questions.
1. If you were Cleveland GM, would you redo Wiggins for Love trade knowing what you know now?
2. If you were Sacramento GM, would you trade Cousins to the Celtics for Brooklyn’s unprotected pick plus Sullinger/Lee?
Note: As Cavs technically traded 2 #1 picks for Love, you can throw in Dallas’ top 7 protected pick in there also.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 1:12pm #1024350
zcnumerounoParticipant1) No. Would I rather have Love than Wiggins? Of course not. However, I just can’t see LeBron and Wiggins being able to play effectively with each other offensively, whereas Love is a stretch 4 that complements James well.
2) Oh hell yeah I would. This SAC team is not going anywhere, even with Cousins. In the unbelievably stacked West, I would scrap and rebuild. The Brooklyn pick is looking more and more like a top 3 pick. Plus, I can’t see Cousins wanting to stay in SAC for much longer.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 1:12pm #1024488
zcnumerounoParticipant1) No. Would I rather have Love than Wiggins? Of course not. However, I just can’t see LeBron and Wiggins being able to play effectively with each other offensively, whereas Love is a stretch 4 that complements James well.
2) Oh hell yeah I would. This SAC team is not going anywhere, even with Cousins. In the unbelievably stacked West, I would scrap and rebuild. The Brooklyn pick is looking more and more like a top 3 pick. Plus, I can’t see Cousins wanting to stay in SAC for much longer.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 1:39pm #1024354

Robb_CParticipant1. I wouldve kept Wiggins, LeBron and Wiggins could have been a nightmare on transition.. Giving Thompson that contract would have made more sense as well
2. Id take a Brooklyn 2017 pick and a right to swap picks in 2018 with the Celtics for Cousins.. If the Celtics want him that bad, which I have no idea why.. Obviously he’s extremely talented, but hes literally a ticking time bomb this guy is never gonna change his attitude ans approach to life
0- Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 11:49pm #1024544
bumbleb33ParticipantYou can’t start Tristan Thompson at the four, he clogs up the paint. Only position he can really play is small ball 5. Wiggins would take at least a few years to be a championship calibre player. By that time lebron’s prime will be out
0 - Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 11:49pm #1024406
bumbleb33ParticipantYou can’t start Tristan Thompson at the four, he clogs up the paint. Only position he can really play is small ball 5. Wiggins would take at least a few years to be a championship calibre player. By that time lebron’s prime will be out
0- Posted on: Sat, 11/14/2015 - 2:17am #1024552
circumlocution75Participantwas b/c his body was breaking down b/c he was being over worked during the regular b/c Wade could not stay healthy…. So on the surface it would seem keeping Wiggins & riding those young horses would be perfect…. But bumbles breakdown is spot on….
I won’t be redundant & repeat it – I’ll only add that we can see Lebron is already grooming K.Love to be the main man early this season….. Lebron’s play reminds be a great deal of Jordan during the Bulls 2nd 3peat….. (Don’t flip out b4 u here me out)…..
The older, wiser Jordan – no longer needing regular season accolades – sought to preserve himself during the regular season by gliding, becoming more of a facilitator & he was always fresh to blast a team in the 4th qtr & in the playoffs – when needed….. so instead of averaging 32 ppg – he would avg 29 ppg but would allow other players to score more…… & it was actually quite beautiful to see this Amazing raw physical specimen begin to beat teams w/ his mind….. Like he was playing Chess while everyone else on the court was playing checkers….
So for Lebron – I believe K. Love & Kyrie as well are a better point in their career arc to accept the responsibility of these roles….
0 - Posted on: Sat, 11/14/2015 - 2:17am #1024414
circumlocution75Participantwas b/c his body was breaking down b/c he was being over worked during the regular b/c Wade could not stay healthy…. So on the surface it would seem keeping Wiggins & riding those young horses would be perfect…. But bumbles breakdown is spot on….
I won’t be redundant & repeat it – I’ll only add that we can see Lebron is already grooming K.Love to be the main man early this season….. Lebron’s play reminds be a great deal of Jordan during the Bulls 2nd 3peat….. (Don’t flip out b4 u here me out)…..
The older, wiser Jordan – no longer needing regular season accolades – sought to preserve himself during the regular season by gliding, becoming more of a facilitator & he was always fresh to blast a team in the 4th qtr & in the playoffs – when needed….. so instead of averaging 32 ppg – he would avg 29 ppg but would allow other players to score more…… & it was actually quite beautiful to see this Amazing raw physical specimen begin to beat teams w/ his mind….. Like he was playing Chess while everyone else on the court was playing checkers….
So for Lebron – I believe K. Love & Kyrie as well are a better point in their career arc to accept the responsibility of these roles….
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- Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 1:39pm #1024492

Robb_CParticipant1. I wouldve kept Wiggins, LeBron and Wiggins could have been a nightmare on transition.. Giving Thompson that contract would have made more sense as well
2. Id take a Brooklyn 2017 pick and a right to swap picks in 2018 with the Celtics for Cousins.. If the Celtics want him that bad, which I have no idea why.. Obviously he’s extremely talented, but hes literally a ticking time bomb this guy is never gonna change his attitude ans approach to life
0 - Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 2:05pm #1024356
giddyup123Participant1. I would have absolutely refrained form trading for Love, and kept Wiggins. It may not have been the sexy decision at the time but it would have: (a) saved money and allowed them to keep/develop Wiggins and (b) still sign/trade for a good to elite big. Similarly, Wiggins would have flourished alongside Lebron whether in big 2/3 or small 3/4 lineups. His ability to slash, cut, and knock down open shots as well as get out in the open floor with Lebron feeding and tutoring him would have been huge! Also, by the time the cap goes up next year, they would have still been able to re-sign him, and retain Lebron, Kyrie, and likely another semi-elite big with their other role players.
2. NO, you need to be patient, not overreact, and keep trying to build around him. I believe Cousins is a top 15 player, with top 6 player potential, potential MVP one day. You cannot trade a 25 year old guy like that even if things aren’t working out. I don’t want to get into semantics but the only guys I see with Demarcus Cousins potential ability are Skal and Ben Simmons and even they have their flaws. Cousins is a known (albeit personality flawwed) commodity and a great one at that. Also, Sacramento has been rebuilding for 5 years now, stalling the process another 5 must sound awful for the franchise
0- Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 11:51pm #1024546
bumbleb33ParticipantCousins is so overrated. They call him the best center in the league yet he has never even been to the playoffs or even get 30 wins. The guy is a locker room cancer, his attitude issues are not worth dealing with
0 - Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 11:51pm #1024408
bumbleb33ParticipantCousins is so overrated. They call him the best center in the league yet he has never even been to the playoffs or even get 30 wins. The guy is a locker room cancer, his attitude issues are not worth dealing with
0- Posted on: Sat, 11/14/2015 - 8:55am #1024592
giddyup123ParticipantSo then are we calling Timofey Mozgov one of the league’s top centers because he got to the finals and finished with 30+ wins. Team sport bro..
0 - Posted on: Sat, 11/14/2015 - 8:55am #1024454
giddyup123ParticipantSo then are we calling Timofey Mozgov one of the league’s top centers because he got to the finals and finished with 30+ wins. Team sport bro..
0- Posted on: Sun, 11/15/2015 - 12:07am #1024557
bumbleb33ParticipantNo? because mozgov is on a team with lebron, kyrie and kevin love.
I think Demarcus is a bit like kevin love. one year ago Kevin love was regarded as the best PF in the league cos of the stats he put up in Minnesota. Now in Cleveland on a winning team he is hardly considered a top 5 PF. I think that will happen to cousins if he ever gets traded
0 - Posted on: Sun, 11/15/2015 - 12:07am #1024695
bumbleb33ParticipantNo? because mozgov is on a team with lebron, kyrie and kevin love.
I think Demarcus is a bit like kevin love. one year ago Kevin love was regarded as the best PF in the league cos of the stats he put up in Minnesota. Now in Cleveland on a winning team he is hardly considered a top 5 PF. I think that will happen to cousins if he ever gets traded
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- Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 2:05pm #1024494
giddyup123Participant1. I would have absolutely refrained form trading for Love, and kept Wiggins. It may not have been the sexy decision at the time but it would have: (a) saved money and allowed them to keep/develop Wiggins and (b) still sign/trade for a good to elite big. Similarly, Wiggins would have flourished alongside Lebron whether in big 2/3 or small 3/4 lineups. His ability to slash, cut, and knock down open shots as well as get out in the open floor with Lebron feeding and tutoring him would have been huge! Also, by the time the cap goes up next year, they would have still been able to re-sign him, and retain Lebron, Kyrie, and likely another semi-elite big with their other role players.
2. NO, you need to be patient, not overreact, and keep trying to build around him. I believe Cousins is a top 15 player, with top 6 player potential, potential MVP one day. You cannot trade a 25 year old guy like that even if things aren’t working out. I don’t want to get into semantics but the only guys I see with Demarcus Cousins potential ability are Skal and Ben Simmons and even they have their flaws. Cousins is a known (albeit personality flawwed) commodity and a great one at that. Also, Sacramento has been rebuilding for 5 years now, stalling the process another 5 must sound awful for the franchise
0 - Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 2:59pm #1024360

OhCanada-ParticipantI doubt Cousins gets traded. After bringing in Rondo (on a reasonable contract) and investing in Gay, also scrapping Stauskas they have committed to this core. I think they would fire Karl first.
Gotta give credit to the Kings though for trying to make it work this long.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 2:59pm #1024498

OhCanada-ParticipantI doubt Cousins gets traded. After bringing in Rondo (on a reasonable contract) and investing in Gay, also scrapping Stauskas they have committed to this core. I think they would fire Karl first.
Gotta give credit to the Kings though for trying to make it work this long.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 5:50pm #1024516
trelos6ParticipantSay Philly offers Embiid and Lakers pick for Cousins, who hangs up the phone first?
0 - Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 5:50pm #1024378
trelos6ParticipantSay Philly offers Embiid and Lakers pick for Cousins, who hangs up the phone first?
0- Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 9:44pm #1024534
circumlocution75ParticipantCousins is a Monster Talent & he should have been a Sixer in the 2010 Draft….. Doug Collins picking Evan Turner over Cousins was part 1 of "Mission Blow up the Sixers Franchise"…… (The Bynum Trade was Part 2)…..
But Phila plays hard every night….. They have a great attitude….. All the players & the coach seem to legitimately like each other…. Noel & Okafor are legit pieces….
Adding Embiid to that mix & their own 2016 1st round pick (which could be Ben Simmons or Jaylan Brown) & the Lakers pick could be Jamal Muuray…..
& they have 5 – FIVE – legit franchise pieces all 18 – 21… All w/ good attitudes & they’re on their way to building a real team that goes to bat for each other…..
b/c they will basically be growing up together as pro’s….. (& we didn’t even mention Stauskus, Saric & their Other 2 first round picks next June)…….
It’s Always tempting to go for quick fixes in life – but it almost Never works out long term…. Phila should stay the course….
Although w/ those pick swaps in the Stauskus trade, taking Cousins would all but Guarentee the Kings have the Worst record the next 3 years & Phila would get that high pick anyway…. (how crazy is that)…
0 - Posted on: Fri, 11/13/2015 - 9:44pm #1024397
circumlocution75ParticipantCousins is a Monster Talent & he should have been a Sixer in the 2010 Draft….. Doug Collins picking Evan Turner over Cousins was part 1 of "Mission Blow up the Sixers Franchise"…… (The Bynum Trade was Part 2)…..
But Phila plays hard every night….. They have a great attitude….. All the players & the coach seem to legitimately like each other…. Noel & Okafor are legit pieces….
Adding Embiid to that mix & their own 2016 1st round pick (which could be Ben Simmons or Jaylan Brown) & the Lakers pick could be Jamal Muuray…..
& they have 5 – FIVE – legit franchise pieces all 18 – 21… All w/ good attitudes & they’re on their way to building a real team that goes to bat for each other…..
b/c they will basically be growing up together as pro’s….. (& we didn’t even mention Stauskus, Saric & their Other 2 first round picks next June)…….
It’s Always tempting to go for quick fixes in life – but it almost Never works out long term…. Phila should stay the course….
Although w/ those pick swaps in the Stauskus trade, taking Cousins would all but Guarentee the Kings have the Worst record the next 3 years & Phila would get that high pick anyway…. (how crazy is that)…
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- Posted on: Sat, 11/14/2015 - 8:54am #1024590

TarHeelRavenParticipantI’ll just speak on Kevin Love and Andrew Wiggins. I completely understand the trade. The Cavs are built to win now. Lebron will be 31 in December. It’s hard to believe he has been in the league for 12 years. He is still the best player in the league, but he will slowly start to decline from now on. His body has a ton of miles on it. Wiggins is a future star. The Cavs had an opportunity to get an elite offensive player and they took that opportunity. Love had problems adjusting to his role last year and him and Kyrie need to be healthy to help Lebron make another run at a title this year. Of course 6-7 years down the road when Wiggins will be in his elite prime and may be the best player in the league the Cavs might look back and question why they traded away their future. That might be after the Cavs collect a couple of titles with Lebron, Love and Kyrie, if that’s the case, the trade will have been worth it.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 11/14/2015 - 8:54am #1024452

TarHeelRavenParticipantI’ll just speak on Kevin Love and Andrew Wiggins. I completely understand the trade. The Cavs are built to win now. Lebron will be 31 in December. It’s hard to believe he has been in the league for 12 years. He is still the best player in the league, but he will slowly start to decline from now on. His body has a ton of miles on it. Wiggins is a future star. The Cavs had an opportunity to get an elite offensive player and they took that opportunity. Love had problems adjusting to his role last year and him and Kyrie need to be healthy to help Lebron make another run at a title this year. Of course 6-7 years down the road when Wiggins will be in his elite prime and may be the best player in the league the Cavs might look back and question why they traded away their future. That might be after the Cavs collect a couple of titles with Lebron, Love and Kyrie, if that’s the case, the trade will have been worth it.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 11/14/2015 - 9:34am #1024610
Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant1. No. Love gives them the better chance to win right now and that’s what this team is built for. When you have the best player in the league in his prime on your roster you do whatever is necessary to surround him with enough talent to win a championship.
2. Yes. Kings as presently constructed aren’t contenders and won’t be for the foreseeable future. I would take the Brooklyn pick plus sullinger and maybe another asset (James Young or rozier?) if possible if the Celtics want cousins that bad.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 11/14/2015 - 9:34am #1024473
Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant1. No. Love gives them the better chance to win right now and that’s what this team is built for. When you have the best player in the league in his prime on your roster you do whatever is necessary to surround him with enough talent to win a championship.
2. Yes. Kings as presently constructed aren’t contenders and won’t be for the foreseeable future. I would take the Brooklyn pick plus sullinger and maybe another asset (James Young or rozier?) if possible if the Celtics want cousins that bad.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 11/14/2015 - 12:11pm #1024629

XYRYXParticipantThe Wiggins for Love trade is still a really tough question to me because you can look at it in so many ways. What people often seem to forget is that Love basically was just a rental als he was a FA this summer so in reality they could have eignes him this summer straight away which was my biggest knock against this trade.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 11/14/2015 - 12:11pm #1024491

XYRYXParticipantThe Wiggins for Love trade is still a really tough question to me because you can look at it in so many ways. What people often seem to forget is that Love basically was just a rental als he was a FA this summer so in reality they could have eignes him this summer straight away which was my biggest knock against this trade.
0- Posted on: Sun, 11/15/2015 - 12:08am #1024559
bumbleb33ParticipantThey would have been capped if they tried to get him as a free agent rather than trading for him mid season. Look how much over the salary cap they are.
0- Posted on: Sun, 11/15/2015 - 2:14pm #1024778
nill650Participanttrue but they have an owner who dont care either so they could have paid others after.
0 - Posted on: Sun, 11/15/2015 - 2:14pm #1024640
nill650Participanttrue but they have an owner who dont care either so they could have paid others after.
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- Posted on: Sun, 11/15/2015 - 12:08am #1024697
bumbleb33ParticipantThey would have been capped if they tried to get him as a free agent rather than trading for him mid season. Look how much over the salary cap they are.
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- Posted on: Sun, 11/15/2015 - 2:13pm #1024776
nill650ParticipantThe only justification in keeping a unproven rookie no matter how good he might be or where he was picked,is if you can get love without trading for him. that would never happen in year one of lbj return so cavs made the correct move to win now. in addition to that noone knows how much not getting love could have effected other trades that were made later.
in the end if i knew then what i know now regarding wiggins,i still think they made the right move. However i might have taken my chances with wiggins and rolled with bennet as a stretch 4 despite the fact that it looks like i would have dumb to do so unless bennett can turn it around,but i also would have brought in another stretch 4 last season.
Personaly i think the t-wolves were going to trade love regardless knowing he wanted out,so my feeling at the time was Cavs would wait and bring him in after his f/a was up regardless of where he was traded or if he wasnt then if love did’nt want to come play with lebron and irving and wiggins. screw him. I mean Love is a great pf and exactly what they need.
I do think this might bite the cavs org in the rear longterm,esp seeing that wiggins despite being able to have success offensively at the 3 would be and will be much better suited guarding and going up against defenses at the 2 guard spot… which he would have been doing in C town.
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I would not trade cousins
0 - Posted on: Sun, 11/15/2015 - 2:13pm #1024638
nill650ParticipantThe only justification in keeping a unproven rookie no matter how good he might be or where he was picked,is if you can get love without trading for him. that would never happen in year one of lbj return so cavs made the correct move to win now. in addition to that noone knows how much not getting love could have effected other trades that were made later.
in the end if i knew then what i know now regarding wiggins,i still think they made the right move. However i might have taken my chances with wiggins and rolled with bennet as a stretch 4 despite the fact that it looks like i would have dumb to do so unless bennett can turn it around,but i also would have brought in another stretch 4 last season.
Personaly i think the t-wolves were going to trade love regardless knowing he wanted out,so my feeling at the time was Cavs would wait and bring him in after his f/a was up regardless of where he was traded or if he wasnt then if love did’nt want to come play with lebron and irving and wiggins. screw him. I mean Love is a great pf and exactly what they need.
I do think this might bite the cavs org in the rear longterm,esp seeing that wiggins despite being able to have success offensively at the 3 would be and will be much better suited guarding and going up against defenses at the 2 guard spot… which he would have been doing in C town.
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I would not trade cousins
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