[valentine]

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/story/_/id/7651756/john-r-wooden-award-freshmen-big-men-lead-finalists

The 15 finalist for the Wooden Award:

Anthony Davis

MKG

Austin Rivers

Sullinger

Doug McDermott

T.Robinson

Tyler Zeller

Jae Crowder , Draymond Green , Kevin Jones  Kris Joseph Marcus Denmon  Scott Machado  Isaiah Canaan  Damian Lillard

No Harrison Barnes! Looks like some people in the media got it right again.

Rivers over Barnes just like the All ACC voting.

 

 

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 I don’t have a problem with it.  Barnes is not the best player on his team, so that probably should effectively disqualify him from the award, anyway.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 I don’t know why B-Ball fan got so many negatives cuz it’s true in college.  While I wouldn’t take anybody over Barnes on UNC in the pro’s, it’s obvious as an erection in spandex that Tyler Zeller is the more effective college player.  

I’m kinda surprised that MKG made the list but his play on both sides of the court warrent it but I still feel somebody from another team should of gotten consideration.  I feel like Will Barton should of absolutely made this lists.  Even tho he plays in the Conferance USA he’s still having a great season and has lead Memphis to a 13-3 record in the conferance and 23-8 overall.  He’s also averaging 19, 8, and 3 while shooting 52% and this kid plays about as hard as anybody in the nation.

[akhan786Participant]

I think it’s funnier that Harrison Barnes’s unheralded highschool teammate from Iowa, Doug McDermott, made it over him. LMAO

[rickybobbyParticipant]

 Johnny Chill am guessing your are a huge Duke and Austin Rivers fan because u really have been bashing Barnes lately. But as far as you all saying barnes isnt the best player on his team is totally false. He’s averaging 17.4pts  5rbs 1.1stls 46% fgs 40%3pt 74% ft  basically bein the 3rd option in his team. And i dont see no 3rd option putting up those kind of stats. UNC runs there offense through the post. You can see that while watching the games or through Marshalls stats as most of his passes and assists are targeted towards Zeller for the most part and then Henson. 

And as far as him getting left off the Wooden Award list im ok with it because Zeller deserves it and barnes hasn’t been playing well particularlly of late. His points and fg percentages have taking a hit after the ankle sprain and he’s been getting into in foul trouble most games limiting his production. Before the injury he was shooting over 50% from the field and exactly 50% from 3pt. 

While im a Barnes fan i can understand why he isnt a finalist. I also can aknowledge that UNC runs their offense through Zeller and that he’s more efficent than Barnes. But what i cant understand why he’s getting so much hate as of late. Yes rivers is a better offensively in creating his own shot and may have more potential as a pro, but Barnes is more well rounded and better pro prospect, also he is havinga better year than Rivers while being a 3rd option as opposed to Rivers being Dukes primary option.  15.3 pts 3.2 rbs 0.9 stls  44% fgs 38% 3pts and 64% fts. As you can see those numbers are nice but Barnes are better in every caterogory.

[UNCbasketballbumParticipant]

 Johnny Chill and Austin Rivers need to get a room.  Serious man crush goin on over there…

[Johnny Chill]

I’m not hating on Barnes, I havent said anything negative about him. I just point out his game and what is going on in regards to the awards considering how much Barnes was pick the Pre Season National Player of the year before his freshman year and even this year Pre Season ACC Player of the year, but didnt live up to the media hype.

Barnes is a solid player, but Rivers has more potential and has already lived up to his own media hype.

[Johnny Chill]

I’m not the only one high on Rivers ever since he hit that dagger in the Dean Dome. Didn’t think he was a clutch player before.  And the media and voters would agree that Rivers is a more important piece to Duke this season, than Barnes is to UNC, hence All ACC 1st team votes and Finalist for the Wooden award over Barnes.

Sorry that shot was against your team, but your going to be seeing every year over and over when Duke plays Carolina. So enjoy.

[ShekiruBoomParticipant]

 ive never understood the hype over harrison barnes he seems like a typical complementary sf reminds me of luol deng at best and what wesley johnson looked like in the recent drafts. SHIIT I AINT WASTING A TOP 3 PICK ON THAT SHIIT

[rickybobbyParticipant]

 I know u didnt say anything negative about Barnes but u have been downpaying him in ur last two posts while praising Rivers. I know Rivers is a good player but Barnes has played better the whole year until his recent strecth of bad and ok performances. Rivers had been up and down the whole year mostly down in the first part of the year even getting benched for a game or two. Now he’s playing great and everyone prasing him and spitting on Barnes because he wasnt ACC player of the year and hasnt produce great numbers liked everyone expected. But he has but up really good numbers so far this year.

Also before his ankle injury Barnes was really starting to kill ACC play. I think he was average about 22-24 points a game over his last four of five games and around 19-20 for the entire conference play before the injury. He stats were up in every caterogory and he was shooting lights out. But after he didint really find his groove again except for the second half of the 1st Duke game, And Zeller really picked up his play considerably.

I honestly believe if he didnt hurt his ankle and then again a couple of games later he would have been ACC player of the year because he was playing spectacular basketball.

 

[UNCbasketballbumParticipant]

That shot Rivers hit at Carolina didn’t win Duke anything.  At home versus Carolina he was 1-6 from 3 pt range with 15 points.  For the ouright ACC regular season championship, he didn’t come up big in a big-time game. 

[Johnny Chill]

[HaleParticipant]

 I’m not accusing you or trying to start anything. This is just a question. Are you a Duke fan?

[Johnny Chill]

Golden State Warriors and Cal Bears

Why are you so concerned with my teams?

[HaleParticipant]

 It seems like your trying too hard to put Barnes on the spot/defend Rivers, so I guessed.

[Johnny Chill]

I’m not a fan of Barnes. But I do like Rivers, his game is more NBA than college. His dagger shot against caroina killed it. Best shot, in the best game,  in the best rivalry. Whats not to like.

Considering all the hype Barnes use to get, he hasnt played to that level. Rivers has played to his hype.

 

[M-EazyParticipant]

It’s so easy to hit a wide open 3 pointer when you’re given 5 feet to shoot.   I still say UNC lost that game more than Duke won it…Zeller blew it big time with the foul, the tip in in the wrong goal, and then the lack of defense on the Rivers shot. 

[UNCbasketballbumParticipant]

This dude needs to seriously chill out, my lord.  That shot Rivers hit won the game in Chapel Hill.  Carolina won the acc regular season title outright and most likely secured a number one seed in the tournamnet.  Carolina’s goal every year is to beat Duke obviously but we’re more concerened with hanging acc regular season title banners and national championship banners than just beating Duke.  Your point would be so much more valid if Austin Rivers didn’t follow up his heroics in Chapel Hill with his dud at Cameron Indoor. Yes it was a big shot, but you seriously need to chill out over Austin Rivers.  I’m sure daddy Rivers can get you a seat next to him for the ACC tournamnet if you want to continue to be all over his nuts. 

Rivers stats from the game at Cameron: 5-12 FG, 1-6 3’s, 4-7FT’s, 4 TO, 4 PF

Championship numbers right there in a acc regular season title game.  Maybe try looking at the FACTS every once in a while man. 

[akhan786Participant]

6-14 FG, 1-3 3’s, 3-4 FT’s, 3 TO’s for a person who doesn’t have the ball in his hands much and 4 fouls in less minutes isn’t that great for Harrison Barnes either bro…

Especially since Duke had 6’4 or shorter guards defending him.

Now don’t get me wrong I think Harrison Barnes is a fantastic player, and imo a more talented player (right now) than Rivers mostly because he has had more than a year to figure the college game out.

I think what Johnny Chill is trying to say is that Rivers means more to Duke than Barnes does to UNC. IMO UNC would still be top 10 if Barnes had opted to go the NBA last year.

Duke without Rivers would barely crack the top 25…He is one of their best on ball defenders (has improved a lot in that regard), is the ONLY one on the team that can consistently get into the lane, and, though his assist totals don’t show it, he helps create offense for the rest of his teammates.

I think Johnny Chill also is just having fun at the fact that Barnes had all of these ACC accolades before his freshman season and didn’t live up to them. While, Rivers has in most cases exceeded expectations.

I’m a Duke fan and even I admit that we got that first game through a sheer amount of luck. But I enjoy the fact that Duke and Rivers exceeded expactations this year and were only one game back from getting the regular season title.

I think it’s a testament to Coach K to bring his less talented team to split the series and be right behind a UNC team that arguably had 4 of the BEST 6 players in the ACC, the DPOY, the Preseason POY, THE POY, and the best point guard in the conference as well.

Part of this is because of Rivers and that is why he was named to the Wooden Award Finalist list.

[rickybobbyParticipant]

 Rivers was suppose to kill right away in college just like everyone thought Barnes was going to do his freshman year. Yea he’s playing great now but he hasn’t all year due to his inconsistant play early on. Eveyone is saying he having a great year and is better than Barnes now and as a freshman, but his numbers are very similar to Barnes freshman year. Also everyone is going crazy about the shot he hit at Carolina dont get me wrong it was nice & very clutch and against their rival, But it was just one game Barnes hit the buzzer beater at FSU last year and so many more clutch shots and throught the year and he wasn’t getting the praise Rivers has or the awards like 1st team all ACC when i think it should have went to Marshall or atleast Stoglin.

I can admit Duke has won more games than i thought they would have before the season. But dont act like it has been mainly because of Rivers. Opposing teams have handed Duke more than a fair share of games with their play at the end of games. Honestly they could have 6-9 more losses easily if things had not went in their favor in the final minutes. (UNC win, NSCT comeback, Belmont, Michagan State, Michigan,Virgina, Virgina Tech in OT, Kansas, GT ). But they did win them so you have to give them credit.

Getting back to Rivers he was very hyped coming out of high school just like Barnes. But it seems like he is getting a pass for not playing well early on and for being inconsistant for most of the year. Last year Barnes was getting killed by everyone for not playing well and living up to the hype. And even thou Austin was playing well of late, his second half of the season to this point is nothing compared to Barnes second half of his freshman year. 

Im guessing what im saying is Barnes and Rivers kinda had the same freshman season. High expectations and not living up to them for half a year, then play well in the second half. But while Barnes was critized Rivers is being Praised for doing the same exact thing. And Rivers isnt facing the pressure of being the guy who was peg as preseason player of the year, 1st team all american, savior to a program that went to the NIT a year before like Barnes was. But he’s getting credit like he was. 

 

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

Who averages more minutes per game between Barnes and Rivers? Who averages more shot attempts? Who has the ball in their hands more often?

How has Rivers lived up to his hype more?

How is Rivers a better pro prospect?

Ask Coach K off the record who he recruited harder.

[Johnny Chill]

^None of that matters anymore. Rivers is a Wooden finalist, Barnes is not.

 

[akhan786Participant]

@BiggySmalls let me answer your questions.

Rivers averages more minutes, steals, and assists.

Barnes actually averages more shot attempts.

The ‘hype’ on Rivers coming into his senior year completely changed after Barnes’s dismal start to his freshman year. Not many people thought Rivers would dominate the college game including Duke fans. I’ve actually been pleasantly surprised by Rivers’s development this year. Barnes did NOT live up to his hype plain and simple. Hell he didn’t even live up to his hype this year and was the 4th most important player on his team.

Rivers is NOT a better pro prospect. A 6’8 forward who has the wettest jump shot I’ve seen in a while has NBA GMs drooling.

And Coach K definitely recruited Barnes more for the reasons above and the hype he was getting. However, I do believe if Barnes had chosed Duke he wouldn’t have been this freshman bust that many see him as now. He would have excelled at Duke because they feature their perimeter players more and Barnes would have the comfort of having Nolan Smith and Kyle Single around him so he can work on his flaws. Such as creating his own shot besides that 2 dribble pull up.

If anyone remembers Barnes only started to excel when UNC put Kendall Marshall into the starting lineup, showing that he needs an elite point guard like Marshall to score because he can’t effectively create space himself.

Coach K has a much better track record with wings than Roy because UNC’s first option is always to dump it down inside. IMO Barnes made a mistake in choosing UNC over Duke.

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

Fair Enough Johnny Chill…but if you are going to say that Rivers is better right now, or if he is a better pro prospect then I believe you are mistaken. Those kind of things dont have anything to do with a Wooden award either. If Barnes played for Duke and Rivers played for UNC, who would be more valuable? Who would have better numbers? How would the teams be different? I dont know the answers, but I get the feeling that you are underrated Harrison Barnes.

Look, I’m not saying he hasnt lived up to expectations, but when players dont live up to those, I think people need to step back and take a reality check. Harrison Barnes was compared to Kobe Bryant in HS…who is going to live up to that? I think that we as basketball fans and the media are starved for another class like the one in 07 (or whatever one had Rose, Mayo, Love etc) that we elevate the top players of each class to statuses that they simply arent capable of being in right away. Barnes hasnt been as advertised, most Freshmen arent, but dont take that, and think that a single NCAA coach would not want Harrison Barnes on his team, and I think many would take him over Rivers.

 

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