[DukeDaSquadParticipant]

 Im young and didnt follow the NBA as heavily as I do now so my question is what could Shaun Livingston had been had he not severely injured his knee? I know he was a high draft pick and somewhat know of his playstyle, but what were people saying about him? what was his potential? where would he have ranked among the top point guards?

[ChewyParticipant]

 In HS there was a huge debate between him and Telfair as to who the best HS PG was. Livingston had the height and passing, Bassy had the handles and the scoring. As someone who played against Livingston in HS, I always thought he was the better player. NBA obviously felt that way as well considering their draft positions.

Livingston was the real deal. He was what every combo guard today is trying to be. His height let him see and pass over the defense. His handles and BBall IQ were star level, even as a rookie. His defense wasn’t anything great, but he usually had a 5 inches or so advantage in height and even more in wingspan, which hid his defensive liabilities a little.

Negatives were that he rail thin and weak. He had an inconsitant jumper and even had some trouble finishing floaters in the lane, despite his height.

I don’t think his game would have ever allowed him to dominate scoring wise, but I could of easily seen him average a pts and ast double double for multiple years. Add that to the high rebounding numbers he would give and he would have been putting up a lot of triple doubles in his career.

At this point, I am just happy to see him get on the floor. So many players never make it back onto the court. Glad Shaun did.

 

 

 

 

[ChewyParticipant]

 In HS there was a huge debate between him and Telfair as to who the best HS PG was. Livingston had the height and passing, Bassy had the handles and the scoring. As someone who played against Livingston in HS, I always thought he was the better player. NBA obviously felt that way as well considering their draft positions.

Livingston was the real deal. He was what every combo guard today is trying to be. His height let him see and pass over the defense. His handles and BBall IQ were star level, even as a rookie. His defense wasn’t anything great, but he usually had a 5 inches or so advantage in height and even more in wingspan, which hid his defensive liabilities a little.

Negatives were that he rail thin and weak. He had an inconsitant jumper and even had some trouble finishing floaters in the lane, despite his height.

I don’t think his game would have ever allowed him to dominate scoring wise, but I could of easily seen him average a pts and ast double double for multiple years. Add that to the high rebounding numbers he would give and he would have been putting up a lot of triple doubles in his career.

At this point, I am just happy to see him get on the floor. So many players never make it back onto the court. Glad Shaun did.

 

 

 

 

[wonzi_bellsParticipant]

 Good to see a fair and reasonable analysis of Livingston’s game. Pretty much summed up what I would’ve said. Too many times you’ll see fans try and eulogize a player as if he was going to be one of the greatest of all time.

Livingston had that horrible in injury in his third season, which is a fair amount of games to feel out where he’d be headed in his future and that third season showed promise for him. He started to shoot the ball more efficiently, was finishing better inside the game and the game started to slow down for him where he could start utilizing his passing skills. There isn’t a perfect player to compare him to but I’d probably say a much more efficient Michael Carter-Williams. Same shooting problems, same body frame problems, same defensive potential but much better with shot selection, shot location and decision making. 

Also, would have went to Duke too if he didn’t declare for the draft, DukeDaSquad.

 

[wonzi_bellsParticipant]

 Good to see a fair and reasonable analysis of Livingston’s game. Pretty much summed up what I would’ve said. Too many times you’ll see fans try and eulogize a player as if he was going to be one of the greatest of all time.

Livingston had that horrible in injury in his third season, which is a fair amount of games to feel out where he’d be headed in his future and that third season showed promise for him. He started to shoot the ball more efficiently, was finishing better inside the game and the game started to slow down for him where he could start utilizing his passing skills. There isn’t a perfect player to compare him to but I’d probably say a much more efficient Michael Carter-Williams. Same shooting problems, same body frame problems, same defensive potential but much better with shot selection, shot location and decision making. 

Also, would have went to Duke too if he didn’t declare for the draft, DukeDaSquad.

 

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

"Too many time you’ll see fans try and eulogize a player as if he was going to be one of the greatest of all time." Exactly. I wanna give you plus 10 for that statement haha.

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

"Too many time you’ll see fans try and eulogize a player as if he was going to be one of the greatest of all time." Exactly. I wanna give you plus 10 for that statement haha.

[ZachAttackParticipant]

 You played Shaun Livingston in High School? That’s pretty cool…

[ZachAttackParticipant]

 You played Shaun Livingston in High School? That’s pretty cool…

[ChewyParticipant]

 college exposure tournament. No tournament, just show up play a few games, go home type event.

Him and Shannon Brown are probably the two best players I’ve played against. My AAU team played the Atlanta Celtics with D12, Josh Smith and Morris (but I was a bench warmer so I only played like 3 minutes in the game lol).

 

[ChewyParticipant]

 college exposure tournament. No tournament, just show up play a few games, go home type event.

Him and Shannon Brown are probably the two best players I’ve played against. My AAU team played the Atlanta Celtics with D12, Josh Smith and Morris (but I was a bench warmer so I only played like 3 minutes in the game lol).

 

[llperez]

  i honestly think what we see of livingston today is pretty close to what he would have become had he not suffered the knee injury.

keep in mind he didnt suffer the injury until his third season in the league, and while he was still young at just 21, he really didnt show much improvement in 3 years. His averages through 3 seasons prior to the injury was 7 points, 5 assists, 3 rebounds and he shot around 44% from the field while making a total of 6 three pointers all 3 seasons combined, in other words his jumper was broke. he also wasnt the fastest dude on the court, a crazy athlete nor an elite defensive player. He was solid and no doubt the injury hurt his progress at a young age, but i didnt see anything suggesting he would be a top 10-15 pg or anything.

Now the guy who i think we were really robbed of seeing being great was jason williams from duke. I know his rookie season wasnt much, but he is one of the greatest college players i have ever seen and i have little doubt he would have been a multiple time all-star.

 

 

 

 

 

[llperez]

  i honestly think what we see of livingston today is pretty close to what he would have become had he not suffered the knee injury.

keep in mind he didnt suffer the injury until his third season in the league, and while he was still young at just 21, he really didnt show much improvement in 3 years. His averages through 3 seasons prior to the injury was 7 points, 5 assists, 3 rebounds and he shot around 44% from the field while making a total of 6 three pointers all 3 seasons combined, in other words his jumper was broke. he also wasnt the fastest dude on the court, a crazy athlete nor an elite defensive player. He was solid and no doubt the injury hurt his progress at a young age, but i didnt see anything suggesting he would be a top 10-15 pg or anything.

Now the guy who i think we were really robbed of seeing being great was jason williams from duke. I know his rookie season wasnt much, but he is one of the greatest college players i have ever seen and i have little doubt he would have been a multiple time all-star.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 I agree. Jason Williams would have been a monster. A lot of people forget about him because his NBA career was so short.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 I agree. Jason Williams would have been a monster. A lot of people forget about him because his NBA career was so short.

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 Im glad he is back on the floor. I studied his game when I was in HS and he was on the Clippers. He could have been Magic or Penny.. If he wanted too. He was that gifted. Fast, quick, passing and defense. He just needed to improve his jumpshot and get stronger. Sky was the limit. But S Dot is playing and thats all that matters. Good luck to him in the finals 

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 Im glad he is back on the floor. I studied his game when I was in HS and he was on the Clippers. He could have been Magic or Penny.. If he wanted too. He was that gifted. Fast, quick, passing and defense. He just needed to improve his jumpshot and get stronger. Sky was the limit. But S Dot is playing and thats all that matters. Good luck to him in the finals 

[c-dubeParticipant]

Sitting out and ajdusting his game due to the injury makes it really tough to say. But he did have great vision and passing skills, obviously length, could handle the ball exceptionally well for a 6’7 guy. He has since developed great footwork within 10 feet of the basket, exploiting his length. Maybe he could have developed that jumper and been a really scary threat. However maybe he never would not have developed the footwork. I think he could have been a regular all-star….really it’s a hypothetical question, how good COULD he have been?

[c-dubeParticipant]

Sitting out and ajdusting his game due to the injury makes it really tough to say. But he did have great vision and passing skills, obviously length, could handle the ball exceptionally well for a 6’7 guy. He has since developed great footwork within 10 feet of the basket, exploiting his length. Maybe he could have developed that jumper and been a really scary threat. However maybe he never would not have developed the footwork. I think he could have been a regular all-star….really it’s a hypothetical question, how good COULD he have been?

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 The fact that he made it back from that devastating injury and is still playing at a high level is remarkable. I saw the replay of the injury once and have no desire to ever watch it again.

With regards to what he could have been, the young Shaun Livingston before the injury was very similar to a young penny hardaway with the major difference being the lack of a jump shot. He has remarkably actually regained most of the explosiveness he had before the injury but he has never really developed his outside touch, which has limited his effectiveness throughout his career. To his credit, he knows he’s not a good outside shooter and plays to his strengths. However, I can’t help but wonder how good he could be if he were able to at least keep defenders honest and make them respect him as a threat from outside. For that reason, I have a hard time believing he would have truly ever gotten to that elite level like penny did in his younger days. I think its more likely you would have been looking at a slightly better version of the player he is now. Not everyone has the superstar mentality and I don’t think Livingston ever would have developed it, but he is a very unselfish player who is extremely talented and multi-demonsional and having players like him can be almost as valuable as superstars sometimes.

 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 The fact that he made it back from that devastating injury and is still playing at a high level is remarkable. I saw the replay of the injury once and have no desire to ever watch it again.

With regards to what he could have been, the young Shaun Livingston before the injury was very similar to a young penny hardaway with the major difference being the lack of a jump shot. He has remarkably actually regained most of the explosiveness he had before the injury but he has never really developed his outside touch, which has limited his effectiveness throughout his career. To his credit, he knows he’s not a good outside shooter and plays to his strengths. However, I can’t help but wonder how good he could be if he were able to at least keep defenders honest and make them respect him as a threat from outside. For that reason, I have a hard time believing he would have truly ever gotten to that elite level like penny did in his younger days. I think its more likely you would have been looking at a slightly better version of the player he is now. Not everyone has the superstar mentality and I don’t think Livingston ever would have developed it, but he is a very unselfish player who is extremely talented and multi-demonsional and having players like him can be almost as valuable as superstars sometimes.

 

[ilike.panochasParticipant]

If Livingston would have stayed healthy I see him being on the same level as Michael Carter Williams. I didnt see any idication while he was healthy that he would have turned out into a superstar like Penny Hardaway.

[ilike.panochasParticipant]

If Livingston would have stayed healthy I see him being on the same level as Michael Carter Williams. I didnt see any idication while he was healthy that he would have turned out into a superstar like Penny Hardaway.

[kobyzParticipant]

 He could become the next big o…

[kobyzParticipant]

 He could become the next big o…

[Lotto StudParticipant]

 Coming out of High School, I were enamored with Shaun Livingston’s I.Q. and elite vision to make those elusive passes through traffic, as I am always with a LEGIT passer on the rise. I am all for facilitators, so for him to be a 6’7” willing-passer, he heighten my appreciation for his game even more once he declared for the NBA.

Tough break on his end very early on to where he had to re-establish and reinvent himself to the degree of earning his keep in the league because that was the first of me to ever see an (Willis McGahee) injury of this sort in the NBA, 

As far as his overall talent goes, I believe he would have been among the league leaders within the assist column yearly, as he would have grew into his leadership role in the same sense of the other guys from his High School class solidifying their expanded roles.

I take his career with a grain of salt now; bitter but sweeter than ever to see something than nothing. It is better to see him on an active NBA roster than to see this name recycled with the guys destined for stardom who were forced out by default.

 

 

[Lotto StudParticipant]

 Coming out of High School, I were enamored with Shaun Livingston’s I.Q. and elite vision to make those elusive passes through traffic, as I am always with a LEGIT passer on the rise. I am all for facilitators, so for him to be a 6’7” willing-passer, he heighten my appreciation for his game even more once he declared for the NBA.

Tough break on his end very early on to where he had to re-establish and reinvent himself to the degree of earning his keep in the league because that was the first of me to ever see an (Willis McGahee) injury of this sort in the NBA, 

As far as his overall talent goes, I believe he would have been among the league leaders within the assist column yearly, as he would have grew into his leadership role in the same sense of the other guys from his High School class solidifying their expanded roles.

I take his career with a grain of salt now; bitter but sweeter than ever to see something than nothing. It is better to see him on an active NBA roster than to see this name recycled with the guys destined for stardom who were forced out by default.

 

 

[mgreener_34Participant]

 I think people are over rating and under rating Livingston in this thread. The people who think he was the next Penny are selling themselves short, but the people who said he showed little improvement and was capped out are also selling Linvingston short. I mean come on, Elphrid Payton just put up 9/6.5/4/1.7 on 43/26/50 shooting percentages, and was a first team all-rookie, and considered a future stud by many people. Livingston put up earily similar numbers at the same age, except he was far more effiecient. 

People need to recognize the scenerios that took place in his career and adjust it from there. He was drafted out of high school, and 3 years isn’t enough to judge what a player was going to be like espesially when he was drafted to such a veteran heavy team like that Clippers team was. Those Clippers were awesome, throwing out lineups or Kaman/Brand/Maggette/Mobley/Cassel, there just wasn’t enough space for a rookie like him to play a huge role. It wasn’t like the dude was playing every game in those three years either, and when he did play he was productive. 

Also people need to realize that he played for one of the most disfunctional organizations in the history of profession sports…We’re talking about the mid 2000 Clippers for Christ’s sake. I know that makes no sense considering it seems to conteract my earlier point of those teams being food, but it still doesn’t take away from the organization he was playing for. The Clippers of yesteryear were pretty much like the Kings of today, players went there to die. Who knows, maybe Sam Cassel could have helped out Shauns career too if he never got hurt, but I have little faith that a team coached by Coach Dunleavy and run by Whatever His Name Is was a healthy enviroment for a kid who couldn’t even buy a drink at the bar yet. 

I think that Livingston was on the path to become a similar player/career to Andre Miller. Both players weren’t the greatest shooters, but both knew how to use their high IQ’s and physical gifts to the best of their abilities. Livingston wasn’t as good as Miller was in his prime, but I don’t think putting up a career of 13/7/4 like Miller did was out of the question, with a few years of great ball in there were he puts up 16/8/4. 

Just my .02c

[mgreener_34Participant]

 I think people are over rating and under rating Livingston in this thread. The people who think he was the next Penny are selling themselves short, but the people who said he showed little improvement and was capped out are also selling Linvingston short. I mean come on, Elphrid Payton just put up 9/6.5/4/1.7 on 43/26/50 shooting percentages, and was a first team all-rookie, and considered a future stud by many people. Livingston put up earily similar numbers at the same age, except he was far more effiecient. 

People need to recognize the scenerios that took place in his career and adjust it from there. He was drafted out of high school, and 3 years isn’t enough to judge what a player was going to be like espesially when he was drafted to such a veteran heavy team like that Clippers team was. Those Clippers were awesome, throwing out lineups or Kaman/Brand/Maggette/Mobley/Cassel, there just wasn’t enough space for a rookie like him to play a huge role. It wasn’t like the dude was playing every game in those three years either, and when he did play he was productive. 

Also people need to realize that he played for one of the most disfunctional organizations in the history of profession sports…We’re talking about the mid 2000 Clippers for Christ’s sake. I know that makes no sense considering it seems to conteract my earlier point of those teams being food, but it still doesn’t take away from the organization he was playing for. The Clippers of yesteryear were pretty much like the Kings of today, players went there to die. Who knows, maybe Sam Cassel could have helped out Shauns career too if he never got hurt, but I have little faith that a team coached by Coach Dunleavy and run by Whatever His Name Is was a healthy enviroment for a kid who couldn’t even buy a drink at the bar yet. 

I think that Livingston was on the path to become a similar player/career to Andre Miller. Both players weren’t the greatest shooters, but both knew how to use their high IQ’s and physical gifts to the best of their abilities. Livingston wasn’t as good as Miller was in his prime, but I don’t think putting up a career of 13/7/4 like Miller did was out of the question, with a few years of great ball in there were he puts up 16/8/4. 

Just my .02c

[HitsterParticipant]

 Shaun had great potential up to his knee injury but had only played in a bench role up to that point so we never got to really see him running a team. Although rather like say Jay Williams he has become one of the great what if PG’s but to be fair he is still in the NBA and may get a title this year.

[HitsterParticipant]

 Shaun had great potential up to his knee injury but had only played in a bench role up to that point so we never got to really see him running a team. Although rather like say Jay Williams he has become one of the great what if PG’s but to be fair he is still in the NBA and may get a title this year.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 I think he needs more minutes.

I know they need him off the bench, but a smaller lineup with Livingston at the point, Steph at the 2, Klay at the 3, Draymond at the 4, and Bogut at the 5 should be really, really, really difficult to stop.

I am surprised that their bench was very solid for them.  Former Grizzly Mo Speights hit some shots, I think he really helped them.  He is a solid 3rd big man.  Great combo of size and touch.  Then Iggy was the back breaker.  He really was, not only shots, but the break away dunk and then the defensive stop on LeBron at the end.  

That’s what I would do…

Experiment more with Livingston at the point and Steph and Klay at the 2 and 3.  Then bring Harrison Barnes off the bench along with Mo Speights.  

This Warriors team looks like a dynasty in the making.  I know anything can happen, but Steph is Mr. Video Game.  Probably he and Pistol Pete in a class by themselves.  Klay is a great second option, and Draymond looks like the ideal third wheel.  Then they still have Barnes, Bogut who can make plays on both sides of the ball, then some solid role players off the bench.

Back to Shaun Livingston, injuries suck.  But, he is still in the NBA.  He is on a great team, and hopefully he shows more of what he can do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 I think he needs more minutes.

I know they need him off the bench, but a smaller lineup with Livingston at the point, Steph at the 2, Klay at the 3, Draymond at the 4, and Bogut at the 5 should be really, really, really difficult to stop.

I am surprised that their bench was very solid for them.  Former Grizzly Mo Speights hit some shots, I think he really helped them.  He is a solid 3rd big man.  Great combo of size and touch.  Then Iggy was the back breaker.  He really was, not only shots, but the break away dunk and then the defensive stop on LeBron at the end.  

That’s what I would do…

Experiment more with Livingston at the point and Steph and Klay at the 2 and 3.  Then bring Harrison Barnes off the bench along with Mo Speights.  

This Warriors team looks like a dynasty in the making.  I know anything can happen, but Steph is Mr. Video Game.  Probably he and Pistol Pete in a class by themselves.  Klay is a great second option, and Draymond looks like the ideal third wheel.  Then they still have Barnes, Bogut who can make plays on both sides of the ball, then some solid role players off the bench.

Back to Shaun Livingston, injuries suck.  But, he is still in the NBA.  He is on a great team, and hopefully he shows more of what he can do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Author]

Posts