[NardDog NationParticipant]

 Could it work? 

[DaGuywhodidurmaParticipant]

 How about the cavs throw in kyrie to sweeten the pot for the Knicks a little?

[NardDog NationParticipant]

I never suggested that the talent was balanced in the deal. I don’t think that it necessarily has to be given the Cavs desperation to appease Irving (demonstrated through the Deng trade).

They are looking to win now and recognize that the best way to do that is by acquiring accomplished veterans that can provide lockerroom leadership. I think that a guy like Tyson Chandler provides that in spades, is healthier than Anderson Varejao and is also a better rebounder, a better pick and roll player and a better defender than him. The Waiters-Shumpert aspect of the deal is clearly a wash in Waiters favor BUT Shumpert is a far better FIT at the 2 spot next to Irving. Let’s also not forget the strained relationship between Waiters and Irving, which adds even more value to having Shumpert instead of Waiters. Yes, the Knicks get more talent in the deal but trades are not based on talent alone; games are not won based on talent alone. Because of that, I think that something like this has legs.

[NardDog NationParticipant]

I never suggested that the talent was balanced in the deal. I don’t think that it necessarily has to be given the Cavs desperation to appease Irving (demonstrated through the Deng trade).

They are looking to win now and recognize that the best way to do that is by acquiring accomplished veterans that can provide lockerroom leadership. I think that a guy like Tyson Chandler provides that in spades, is healthier than Anderson Varejao and is also a better rebounder, a better pick and roll player and a better defender than him. The Waiters-Shumpert aspect of the deal is clearly a wash in Waiters favor BUT Shumpert is a far better FIT at the 2 spot next to Irving. Let’s also not forget the strained relationship between Waiters and Irving, which adds even more value to having Shumpert instead of Waiters. Yes, the Knicks get more talent in the deal but trades are not based on talent alone; games are not won based on talent alone. Because of that, I think that something like this has legs.

[DaGuywhodidurmaParticipant]

 How about the cavs throw in kyrie to sweeten the pot for the Knicks a little?

[nick5354Participant]

This is insane. Surely you cannot value Waiters this low?

[NardDog NationParticipant]

 Waiters is a better player than Shumpert but games aren’t won by having better talent at each position. Chemistry goes a long way in building a winner, which is why the Cavs can’t make the playoffs and the Hawks and Bobcats can. When you have a dynamic guard like Irving, you don’t need another guard that will demand the ball just as much. All you really need is a guy that can hit open jump shots and play good defense, which Shumpert does well. In fact, Shumpert is ranked as the 3rd best defensive SG in the league. Add to the fact that Tyson is clearly a better, healthier player than Varejao, I think that this deal (in principle) would have some legs.

[NardDog NationParticipant]

 Waiters is a better player than Shumpert but games aren’t won by having better talent at each position. Chemistry goes a long way in building a winner, which is why the Cavs can’t make the playoffs and the Hawks and Bobcats can. When you have a dynamic guard like Irving, you don’t need another guard that will demand the ball just as much. All you really need is a guy that can hit open jump shots and play good defense, which Shumpert does well. In fact, Shumpert is ranked as the 3rd best defensive SG in the league. Add to the fact that Tyson is clearly a better, healthier player than Varejao, I think that this deal (in principle) would have some legs.

[nick5354Participant]

This is insane. Surely you cannot value Waiters this low?

[Land of GrantParticipant]

Yeah I actually like this deal, Shump would be good next to Kyrie, whereas Waiters is a bit of a mini-kyrie which was never gonna work well.

I bet the Cavs could package him for something much better though. Waiters+2014 1st+Anderson Varejao+2 2nd rounders for Kevin Love comes to mind, as does an onslaught of negs.

 

[NardDog NationParticipant]

 If the Cavs could’ ve made that move (for Kevin Love), they would’ve done so a long time ago. It’s been no secret that they are interested in him. The problem is that everyone, outside of the Cavs, understanda who/what Dion Waiters is. He’ll have games where he resembles a young Dwayne Wade but the statistics and mental makeup suggest that he’ll be little more than JR Smith (minus the off court antics) or present-day Tyreke Evans. 

The only reason I see the Knicks making the deal is because of how devoid their backcourt is of talent or difference makers. They can give Waiters the ball and allow him to have full autonomy to do whatever he wants. I fully expect what he does to be empty stats but spectacular/eye-catching, which could be enough to fool some desperate GM on the hot seat into overpaying for  his services (see Brian Colangelo trading for Rudy Gay). Unfortunately for the Cavs, they can’t showcase Waiters like the Knicks could (because of Kyrie) and will be forced to sell him at market value. Other than this strategy, I don’t see much advantage for the Knicks if they get him.

[NardDog NationParticipant]

 If the Cavs could’ ve made that move (for Kevin Love), they would’ve done so a long time ago. It’s been no secret that they are interested in him. The problem is that everyone, outside of the Cavs, understanda who/what Dion Waiters is. He’ll have games where he resembles a young Dwayne Wade but the statistics and mental makeup suggest that he’ll be little more than JR Smith (minus the off court antics) or present-day Tyreke Evans. 

The only reason I see the Knicks making the deal is because of how devoid their backcourt is of talent or difference makers. They can give Waiters the ball and allow him to have full autonomy to do whatever he wants. I fully expect what he does to be empty stats but spectacular/eye-catching, which could be enough to fool some desperate GM on the hot seat into overpaying for  his services (see Brian Colangelo trading for Rudy Gay). Unfortunately for the Cavs, they can’t showcase Waiters like the Knicks could (because of Kyrie) and will be forced to sell him at market value. Other than this strategy, I don’t see much advantage for the Knicks if they get him.

[benny15Participant]

 i see what youre trying to do and get it. pairing a lotto pick in a deep draft with a young talent and a solid vet role player with a contract that would match-up salaries for a star, but the problem lies in the last part.

 the cavs dont have a big contract to add to the waiters and pick package because youre not allowed to deal players in expiring deals or with ETO’s in the draft, and varejao has one. the only vet they can deal in the draft is Jarrett Jack, but i doubt a team willing to unload their star would be willing to absorb jack’s contract right now since he’s had a bad injury filled season. 

[benny15Participant]

 i see what youre trying to do and get it. pairing a lotto pick in a deep draft with a young talent and a solid vet role player with a contract that would match-up salaries for a star, but the problem lies in the last part.

 the cavs dont have a big contract to add to the waiters and pick package because youre not allowed to deal players in expiring deals or with ETO’s in the draft, and varejao has one. the only vet they can deal in the draft is Jarrett Jack, but i doubt a team willing to unload their star would be willing to absorb jack’s contract right now since he’s had a bad injury filled season. 

[Land of GrantParticipant]

Yeah I actually like this deal, Shump would be good next to Kyrie, whereas Waiters is a bit of a mini-kyrie which was never gonna work well.

I bet the Cavs could package him for something much better though. Waiters+2014 1st+Anderson Varejao+2 2nd rounders for Kevin Love comes to mind, as does an onslaught of negs.

 

[Land of GrantParticipant]

Yeah they’d need more to get Love.

Thing is I actually really like Waiters though, he can score every way, except from the post, has great athleticism, and the whole headcase thing I think is overblown, a situation like Cleveland would make Mother Teresa look like… I don’t know, some lesser mother, the point is, with the right coach and people around him, I think Waiters can be an efficient 20 point scorer.

 

[Land of GrantParticipant]

Yeah they’d need more to get Love.

Thing is I actually really like Waiters though, he can score every way, except from the post, has great athleticism, and the whole headcase thing I think is overblown, a situation like Cleveland would make Mother Teresa look like… I don’t know, some lesser mother, the point is, with the right coach and people around him, I think Waiters can be an efficient 20 point scorer.

 

[NardDog NationParticipant]

Even on their best day, I don’t see them being able to muster a competitive offer for Kevin Love. If the Wolves decide to move him, they will know full well that a roster purge will need to occur. As a result, expect for them to want to unload some of their more cumbersome contracts like Chase Budinger, Corey Brewer, JJ Barea, Kevin Martin, etc. The Cavs simply don’t have the contracts to accomodate the Wolves in this respect, which handicaps their prospects of getting Love. Add to the fact that more exotic locations like the Lakers (and their probable 6th pick), the Bulls (with Gibson, Mirotic, Butler and two 2014 first round picks) and the Rockets (with Chandler Parsons, Terrence Jones and Isiah Cannon) have more compelling assets and I think it is very unlikely that any assortment of the Cav-players will entice the Wolves.

 

[NardDog NationParticipant]

Even on their best day, I don’t see them being able to muster a competitive offer for Kevin Love. If the Wolves decide to move him, they will know full well that a roster purge will need to occur. As a result, expect for them to want to unload some of their more cumbersome contracts like Chase Budinger, Corey Brewer, JJ Barea, Kevin Martin, etc. The Cavs simply don’t have the contracts to accomodate the Wolves in this respect, which handicaps their prospects of getting Love. Add to the fact that more exotic locations like the Lakers (and their probable 6th pick), the Bulls (with Gibson, Mirotic, Butler and two 2014 first round picks) and the Rockets (with Chandler Parsons, Terrence Jones and Isiah Cannon) have more compelling assets and I think it is very unlikely that any assortment of the Cav-players will entice the Wolves.

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

Its not that the Cavs can’t put together a competitive offer for Love. Its that why would Kevin Love want to go from one terrible organization to another?  If the Cavs empty their cubbords for him he’s just going to leave in Free agency.  They can’t be ignorant to this.  

Certainly K Love isn’t ignorant to the fact the Cavd organization is terrible either.

  

[Magic JordanParticipant]

Its not that the Cavs can’t put together a competitive offer for Love. Its that why would Kevin Love want to go from one terrible organization to another?  If the Cavs empty their cubbords for him he’s just going to leave in Free agency.  They can’t be ignorant to this.  

Certainly K Love isn’t ignorant to the fact the Cavd organization is terrible either.

  

[WITNESS2014Participant]

As a cavs fan I would take this. They need to get rid of Thompson though. A pf who clogs the lane would not be a good fit next to Chandler.

[WITNESS2014Participant]

As a cavs fan I would take this. They need to get rid of Thompson though. A pf who clogs the lane would not be a good fit next to Chandler.

[NardDog NationParticipant]

 I think that it is a safe bet to expect Thompson to develop a 15ft jumper. He’s a smart guy and a smart play with good enough form for his offensive game to resemble what Al Horford can do and what an Antonio Davis did. Rome wasn’t built in a day, nor should we expect Thompson to be a finished product at this stage in his career.

The big question for the Cavs is "who is going to be their primary scorer?" because you don’t want that distinction to fall to your PG and you need at least two prolific scorers to be good (see every contender in the league). I don’t ever see Thompson being that and don’t know of anyone else on the team that can come close to being that (after this trade).

[NardDog NationParticipant]

 I think that it is a safe bet to expect Thompson to develop a 15ft jumper. He’s a smart guy and a smart play with good enough form for his offensive game to resemble what Al Horford can do and what an Antonio Davis did. Rome wasn’t built in a day, nor should we expect Thompson to be a finished product at this stage in his career.

The big question for the Cavs is "who is going to be their primary scorer?" because you don’t want that distinction to fall to your PG and you need at least two prolific scorers to be good (see every contender in the league). I don’t ever see Thompson being that and don’t know of anyone else on the team that can come close to being that (after this trade).

[WITNESS2014Participant]

He hasn’t came close to developing a jumper yet and I’ve watched almost every game. I’m just saying it wouldn’t be smart to start Thompson next to Chandler. You have to bigs who cant space the floor and clogs the lane for Irving and Waiters. Pretty common sense.

[WITNESS2014Participant]

He hasn’t came close to developing a jumper yet and I’ve watched almost every game. I’m just saying it wouldn’t be smart to start Thompson next to Chandler. You have to bigs who cant space the floor and clogs the lane for Irving and Waiters. Pretty common sense.

[coachLSParticipant]

 Great trade would help Cleveland out more the the Knicks but waiters has to go and chandler and Irving pick and roll game would help out with spacing even tho they have Thompson on the block

[coachLSParticipant]

 Great trade would help Cleveland out more the the Knicks but waiters has to go and chandler and Irving pick and roll game would help out with spacing even tho they have Thompson on the block

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