[NardDog NationParticipant]

I thought that draft night trade was foolish for the Pelicans then and still think it is foolish now.  Jrue Holiday is a terrific player but he is not and will likely never be the kind of player that is capable of being the no.2 guy on a contender. So why forfeit two lottery picks that could have yielded the kind of talent that could be?  As it would turn out, the past two drafts DID yield that kind of talent in Nerlens Noel and Marcus Smart, who likely would’ve been available had the Pelicans been patient and tanked. Is there anyone here who thinks that Marcus Smart at bare minimum couldn’t duplicate and exceed what Jrue Holiday does, moving forward?

Yes, Anthony Davis’ superstardom was a matter of "when" not "if" but why rush the rebuilding process when you have the advantage of 3 seasons to blow and 4 more after Davis would be compelled to re-sign as a restricted free agent? It seems to be the same dumb mistake the Cavs and Magic did that ultimately contributed to them being sham contenders in the late 2000s, which lead to LeBron and Dwight leaving. Smart teams like the Thunder recognized these facts, which is how they ended up drafting Durant and Westbrook before looking to win. Now look at them!

Had the Pelicans followed  Thunder’s formula, they might still be the team they are now BUT have a much better future. Just imagine how exceedingly well Noel would fit with Davis. They might have potentially formed the most formidable frontline in NBA history! Add  Marcus Smart’s heady play and hustle on defense and now you’re talking about a team that would be perennial favorites for the title in the not too distant future.

[ahuang16Participant]

Maybe Smart or Payton, who I think is the better player and prospect, could develop at least to Holiday’s level.  The reason why I originally didn’t like the trade because it seemed like they traded two starters for one.

And while the team could potentially jump into the playoffs if they stay healthy obviously, to me with their current core they definitely have a ceiling.  Gordon’s career has been wrecked by injuries, Evans is still struggling to find a good positional fit, and Holiday while effective seems to have reached his prime.  So in hindsight with the current makeup, they should have been more patient.

The concern with the "Thunder model" right now is the fact these stud young guys want to get paid when their rookie contract expires.  Whether justified or not, this is starting to become a continuing problem.  Another issue is accepting a role as a third or fourth option.

[ahuang16Participant]

Maybe Smart or Payton, who I think is the better player and prospect, could develop at least to Holiday’s level.  The reason why I originally didn’t like the trade because it seemed like they traded two starters for one.

And while the team could potentially jump into the playoffs if they stay healthy obviously, to me with their current core they definitely have a ceiling.  Gordon’s career has been wrecked by injuries, Evans is still struggling to find a good positional fit, and Holiday while effective seems to have reached his prime.  So in hindsight with the current makeup, they should have been more patient.

The concern with the "Thunder model" right now is the fact these stud young guys want to get paid when their rookie contract expires.  Whether justified or not, this is starting to become a continuing problem.  Another issue is accepting a role as a third or fourth option.

[NardDog NationParticipant]

 I forgot about Elfrid Payton but I completely agree with your assessment. I think that he is another guy who could easily match Holiday’s peak years and even exceed them.

I don’t see your point about "the Thunder model" though. The Pelicans are basically maxing out Holiday, Gordon, Evans and Asik. After 4 years time do you see Marcus Smart/Elfrid Payton and Nerlens Noel being any less effective than those guys? Hell, I think by year 2 you’ll start to see the latter group perform on par with what the Pelicans currently have.

[NardDog NationParticipant]

 I forgot about Elfrid Payton but I completely agree with your assessment. I think that he is another guy who could easily match Holiday’s peak years and even exceed them.

I don’t see your point about "the Thunder model" though. The Pelicans are basically maxing out Holiday, Gordon, Evans and Asik. After 4 years time do you see Marcus Smart/Elfrid Payton and Nerlens Noel being any less effective than those guys? Hell, I think by year 2 you’ll start to see the latter group perform on par with what the Pelicans currently have.

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

 I’m not all that high on either Noel or Smart so naturally I guess I like the trade a little more then most. I think Holiday is a good, not great player and that team needed a PG in the worst way. He’s also really young and could be around for a long time still. I don’t think Noel is going to be all that good, and while I could see Smart being a nice player, I don’t think the deal is lopsided by any means. 

The Pelicans needed a PG and Holiday is a guy that is both young and experienced. He’s also, by all accounts, really good defensively and solid in pick’n’roll which works perfectly with Davis. 

 

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

 I’m not all that high on either Noel or Smart so naturally I guess I like the trade a little more then most. I think Holiday is a good, not great player and that team needed a PG in the worst way. He’s also really young and could be around for a long time still. I don’t think Noel is going to be all that good, and while I could see Smart being a nice player, I don’t think the deal is lopsided by any means. 

The Pelicans needed a PG and Holiday is a guy that is both young and experienced. He’s also, by all accounts, really good defensively and solid in pick’n’roll which works perfectly with Davis. 

 

[benny15Participant]

 so youre saying the Pelicans should have tried to tank like what the sixers are doing now in order to get more high lotto players? thats a fair oppinion, but one could argue that the draft can produce a bust as much as it would a stud. and that the pelicans wanted to take the less risky route of cashing out 2 first rounders for a young all-star point guard. 

would jrue have been an all-star in the west? probably not. but he was still a 22 year old kid who showed very good abilities on both sides of the court. he’s more NBA proven than anyone in the draft. what if they held onto Noel and he ended up being like Brandon Wright? or they did take Smart and he ended up being like Dajun Wagner? you’re never realy certain. 

some teams place more value on higher potential, others place more value on NBA proven players. i think the deal to get Jrue was fair. it might not have had as much upside as their 2 first rounders, but it dint have as low of a floor either. 

 

 

[benny15Participant]

 so youre saying the Pelicans should have tried to tank like what the sixers are doing now in order to get more high lotto players? thats a fair oppinion, but one could argue that the draft can produce a bust as much as it would a stud. and that the pelicans wanted to take the less risky route of cashing out 2 first rounders for a young all-star point guard. 

would jrue have been an all-star in the west? probably not. but he was still a 22 year old kid who showed very good abilities on both sides of the court. he’s more NBA proven than anyone in the draft. what if they held onto Noel and he ended up being like Brandon Wright? or they did take Smart and he ended up being like Dajun Wagner? you’re never realy certain. 

some teams place more value on higher potential, others place more value on NBA proven players. i think the deal to get Jrue was fair. it might not have had as much upside as their 2 first rounders, but it dint have as low of a floor either. 

 

 

[NardDog NationParticipant]

What if the Pelicans traded for Jrue Holiday and his career followed the ssme trajectory as Deron Williams? In this league, risk accompanies any move you make and the Holiday was no different. I’d even wager that rebuilding via the draft was lower risk because it alleviated the franchise of the burden of expectation, in the sense that fans know they won’t have an immediate winner. More importantly, the draft offers the best bang for your buck and could’ve allowed the Pelicans to bring in several cost-controlled, high impact players that could’ve left them the opportunity to throw big money at veteran free agents; a "have your pie and eat it too" situation. Had it failed, is it really that hard to see them sign Rajon Rondo outright this offseason? You really think anyone would want to pass up the opportunity to play with him if the money is there? And Rajon any worse than Holiday?

The Pelicans went in the other direction with their team building, forfeiting picks and throwing big money at marginal veterans, yet they still are a reach to make the playoffs. Right now, they are the 8th seed in the West but is there any doubt that the Spurs, Clippers and Thunder will surpass them to claim that spot as the season goes on?

 

[NardDog NationParticipant]

What if the Pelicans traded for Jrue Holiday and his career followed the ssme trajectory as Deron Williams? In this league, risk accompanies any move you make and the Holiday was no different. I’d even wager that rebuilding via the draft was lower risk because it alleviated the franchise of the burden of expectation, in the sense that fans know they won’t have an immediate winner. More importantly, the draft offers the best bang for your buck and could’ve allowed the Pelicans to bring in several cost-controlled, high impact players that could’ve left them the opportunity to throw big money at veteran free agents; a "have your pie and eat it too" situation. Had it failed, is it really that hard to see them sign Rajon Rondo outright this offseason? You really think anyone would want to pass up the opportunity to play with him if the money is there? And Rajon any worse than Holiday?

The Pelicans went in the other direction with their team building, forfeiting picks and throwing big money at marginal veterans, yet they still are a reach to make the playoffs. Right now, they are the 8th seed in the West but is there any doubt that the Spurs, Clippers and Thunder will surpass them to claim that spot as the season goes on?

 

[juves4783Participant]

dude, that trade led to the acquisition of tyreke evans.  if they didn’t trade for holiday, they would of been forced to draft a pg.  they had no reason to draft nerlens because they had robin lopez, davis and ryan anderson.  they would of more than likely taken trey burke because he was the top rated pg at their pick.  and if they would of drafted a pg, they probably wouldn’t have traded lopez and vasquez for evans so they had a good backup plan if burke failed (which he’s been doing).  

now, if that team did play; i don’t know how much better they would of been with all the injuries so let’s just say they ended where they were.  obvious pick would be a sf: doug mcdermott.  the asik trade probably wouldn’t have been necessary but which team would you rather have.

pg – burke, sg – gordon, sf – mcdermott, pf – davis, c – lopez with rivers and anderson off the bench OR…

pg – holiday, sg – gordon, sf -evans, pf – davis, c – asik with rivers and anderson off the bench.

i’d personally choose the latter.  but the first team would have more cash for free agents, but the way the salaries are built right now is that asik comes off the books this year, gordon and anderson next year which is the exact time anthony davis can get an extension.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[juves4783Participant]

dude, that trade led to the acquisition of tyreke evans.  if they didn’t trade for holiday, they would of been forced to draft a pg.  they had no reason to draft nerlens because they had robin lopez, davis and ryan anderson.  they would of more than likely taken trey burke because he was the top rated pg at their pick.  and if they would of drafted a pg, they probably wouldn’t have traded lopez and vasquez for evans so they had a good backup plan if burke failed (which he’s been doing).  

now, if that team did play; i don’t know how much better they would of been with all the injuries so let’s just say they ended where they were.  obvious pick would be a sf: doug mcdermott.  the asik trade probably wouldn’t have been necessary but which team would you rather have.

pg – burke, sg – gordon, sf – mcdermott, pf – davis, c – lopez with rivers and anderson off the bench OR…

pg – holiday, sg – gordon, sf -evans, pf – davis, c – asik with rivers and anderson off the bench.

i’d personally choose the latter.  but the first team would have more cash for free agents, but the way the salaries are built right now is that asik comes off the books this year, gordon and anderson next year which is the exact time anthony davis can get an extension.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[benny15Participant]

 true, all and every move you make in the league comes with a level of risk, however there are different margins of risk between them. you’re comparing getting a young promising player who has shown excellent two way abilities in the NBA to being injured repeatedly to drafting young talented players who have never played a minute in the league. if you make a back-ground check on both, you can make a better forecast on Jrue just because you’ve seen him perform in the NBA already as compared of not knowing how these college stars would transition to the league. 

as far as lowering the fans expectations, they could have gone forward with that. but i suppose the new owners wanted to start competing right away after obtaining their franchise cornerstone in Davis. dint want to have severall non-playoffs seasons after investing a lot of money on the team. its completely understandable. why create a culture that say its okay to loose. is that realy the message they would want to say to their fan base. that thats what they are about and not trying to get Ws?

and its true, impact players on rookie deals provide great value for their contacts, but thats assuming you have impact players from the draft. we all know the draft does not guarantee that. so you could be getting more austin riverses who are not living up to their hype and potential. you bring up going and siging veteran free agents such as rondo, but they could say that they dont want to be part of  a rebuilding project and sign with someone else. having AD does make the team more attractive to sign with, but even the alure of LeBron dint make the cavs a shoe in getting top free agents, remember they had to settle for their 3rd shooting guard FA target in Larry Hughes when hometown player Michaell Redd passed and so did Joe Johnson. 

and as far as criticing a team that "threw money at marginal veterans and still miss the play-offs", that was last year where the team had a ton off unfortunate issues, not all pertaining to their free agent acquisitions. Ryan Anderson suffered a bad and scary injury. Anthony Davis missed time. Tyreke Evans missed time. Jrue Holiday missed time. given that thats part of the NBA, its not like they were complete as a team which was a assembled and just bombed. this season hopefully will give us a more accurate look on how the team will look like. 

as far as those 3 teams surpassing them, you never know, they could. but the suns could also drop in the standings, the kings could drop. even the grizz or blazers could miss it if injuries happen to key players. and who is to say that was or wasnt the reason the pelicans missed the post-season last year. its only been 7 games into the season, theres a lot of basketball left to be played.

 

 

[benny15Participant]

 true, all and every move you make in the league comes with a level of risk, however there are different margins of risk between them. you’re comparing getting a young promising player who has shown excellent two way abilities in the NBA to being injured repeatedly to drafting young talented players who have never played a minute in the league. if you make a back-ground check on both, you can make a better forecast on Jrue just because you’ve seen him perform in the NBA already as compared of not knowing how these college stars would transition to the league. 

as far as lowering the fans expectations, they could have gone forward with that. but i suppose the new owners wanted to start competing right away after obtaining their franchise cornerstone in Davis. dint want to have severall non-playoffs seasons after investing a lot of money on the team. its completely understandable. why create a culture that say its okay to loose. is that realy the message they would want to say to their fan base. that thats what they are about and not trying to get Ws?

and its true, impact players on rookie deals provide great value for their contacts, but thats assuming you have impact players from the draft. we all know the draft does not guarantee that. so you could be getting more austin riverses who are not living up to their hype and potential. you bring up going and siging veteran free agents such as rondo, but they could say that they dont want to be part of  a rebuilding project and sign with someone else. having AD does make the team more attractive to sign with, but even the alure of LeBron dint make the cavs a shoe in getting top free agents, remember they had to settle for their 3rd shooting guard FA target in Larry Hughes when hometown player Michaell Redd passed and so did Joe Johnson. 

and as far as criticing a team that "threw money at marginal veterans and still miss the play-offs", that was last year where the team had a ton off unfortunate issues, not all pertaining to their free agent acquisitions. Ryan Anderson suffered a bad and scary injury. Anthony Davis missed time. Tyreke Evans missed time. Jrue Holiday missed time. given that thats part of the NBA, its not like they were complete as a team which was a assembled and just bombed. this season hopefully will give us a more accurate look on how the team will look like. 

as far as those 3 teams surpassing them, you never know, they could. but the suns could also drop in the standings, the kings could drop. even the grizz or blazers could miss it if injuries happen to key players. and who is to say that was or wasnt the reason the pelicans missed the post-season last year. its only been 7 games into the season, theres a lot of basketball left to be played.

 

 

[llperez]

I had no problem with trade then. Pelicans weren’t going to be as bad as the sixers unless they dropped other guys as well so implying they would get Noel or smart is misleading. And both those guys have a ways to go before we can correctly evaluate them while holiday is a very good two way player who can guard either backcourt position and should help the Pelicans make the playoffs this year.

[llperez]

I had no problem with trade then. Pelicans weren’t going to be as bad as the sixers unless they dropped other guys as well so implying they would get Noel or smart is misleading. And both those guys have a ways to go before we can correctly evaluate them while holiday is a very good two way player who can guard either backcourt position and should help the Pelicans make the playoffs this year.

[NardDog NationParticipant]

The Pelicans were the team who selected Nerlens Noel, so I’m not sure why you think my comments are misleading. I could understand your concern for speculating Marcus Smart but all that separated the Celtics from the Pelicans were 11 wins. Removing Jrue Holiday and the half a season he played, as well as Tryreke Evans could have easily cost the Pelicans those 11 wins and put them in contention for the 5th pick. Even if they missed out on Smart, Elfrid Payton was still available with the same pick they sent to the Sixers anyway. And even if you didn’t buy the hype about Payton, a New Orleans native, is it really that hard to envision them using it to acquire Rajon Rondo or sign outright this offseason? Simply put , the Holiday deal was a bad and impatient move made by a bad an impatient GM.

[NardDog NationParticipant]

The Pelicans were the team who selected Nerlens Noel, so I’m not sure why you think my comments are misleading. I could understand your concern for speculating Marcus Smart but all that separated the Celtics from the Pelicans were 11 wins. Removing Jrue Holiday and the half a season he played, as well as Tryreke Evans could have easily cost the Pelicans those 11 wins and put them in contention for the 5th pick. Even if they missed out on Smart, Elfrid Payton was still available with the same pick they sent to the Sixers anyway. And even if you didn’t buy the hype about Payton, a New Orleans native, is it really that hard to envision them using it to acquire Rajon Rondo or sign outright this offseason? Simply put , the Holiday deal was a bad and impatient move made by a bad an impatient GM.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 Eh, make Anthony Davis happy.

He is probably happy that they are competitive.

With younger guys like Noel, who knows?  They are probably struggling.

Any future free agency classes will be known as THE ANTHONY DAVIS FREE AGENCY CLASS or THE NOT ANTHONY DAVIS FREE AGENCY CLASS.

Make Anthony Davis happy.

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 Eh, make Anthony Davis happy.

He is probably happy that they are competitive.

With younger guys like Noel, who knows?  They are probably struggling.

Any future free agency classes will be known as THE ANTHONY DAVIS FREE AGENCY CLASS or THE NOT ANTHONY DAVIS FREE AGENCY CLASS.

Make Anthony Davis happy.

 

 

 

 

[OllstarParticipant]

NO is trying to create a winning culture. They want some continuity in their roster. I think both options were considered and they felt it was marginally better to do the one they did. Probably had something to do with satisfying AD.

[OllstarParticipant]

NO is trying to create a winning culture. They want some continuity in their roster. I think both options were considered and they felt it was marginally better to do the one they did. Probably had something to do with satisfying AD.

[GBeeParticipant]

 asik is a better fit next to davis than noel is. noel can’t guard centers on a consistent basis. both he and davis are light in the cakes and noel likely always will be considering his puny build.

love the trade for the pels. they needed to be competitive now, not waiting for noel to develop just so they could eventually have a 2 PF frontcourt.

 

[GBeeParticipant]

 asik is a better fit next to davis than noel is. noel can’t guard centers on a consistent basis. both he and davis are light in the cakes and noel likely always will be considering his puny build.

love the trade for the pels. they needed to be competitive now, not waiting for noel to develop just so they could eventually have a 2 PF frontcourt.

 

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