[steviechillzParticipant]

The Jazz last night made a valiant effort to get very close to coming back against the Nuggets, but they fell short, and the record is now 5-13.  So what’s the problem with the Jazz? Is it Hayward? Not IMO bc the guy has lived up to his contract, shooting way better than last year and has been the "guy" for a team that needed a "guy".  Is it the coach?  Not IMO, the guy preaches ball movement and institutes a system perfect for most of the guys in that line-up.  Is it the overload of big men?  Not really, Favors, Kanter, and even Gobert have all played well in stretches.

 

Who or what is the Jazz’s problem?  Well besides the average defensive numbers, I’m going to put this mostly on the up and down play of Trey Burke.  He is the opposite of consistent, and IMO is not necessarily right for this team.  I’m not saying he has lost his starting job for sure yet, or even that right now Exum is better than Burke, but they need to look elsewhere at the point position, bc its clearly not working when he gets the most minutes between him and Exum.  Exum plays 19 minutes a game when the Jazz win, versus 17 minutes a game in losses.  He averages 4 assists and 7 ppg in wins, compared to his season averages of 2 assists and 5 ppg in losses.  This isn’t to say Burke can’t play, but statistics don’t lie and you took a chance by drafting Exum, might as well use him.

You picked Exum as a top 10 pick, you knew his potential, but he is only averaging 18 minutes a game? The same amount of playing time as Joe Ingles??? That is unacceptable.  What do you have to lose to give him more playing time here and there, or possibly even start him? Clearly, a change needs to be made and I think they should experiment with Exum while they have him and give him more minutes.  What do you guys think?

[GBeeParticipant]

 uh, they invested a top 10 pick in burke too. burke has actually been shooting the ball better, showing signs of breaking out of his early season shooting slump (shooting 53% in the last 5) and is coming off a game where he played well. hit some clutch shots,  8 ast 0 turn game. while exum is still showing just how much of agreen 19 y/o kid he is, shooting like 20% during their losing streak while struggling even more than burke is defensively?

no, now’s not the time. he’s not ready, nor does he deserve more minutes. he’s being brought along at the right pace for a kid with his lack of experience. if they had an adequate back up point and they were serious about competing in games, he’d probably be better off watching and learning while improving behind the scenes.

the jazz’ issue is defense and lack of experience, both issues that can only be addressed over time. burke is not a good defender, but exum is worse. he sticks to screens like glue.  the biggest disappointment for that team has been their defense. their PnR defense on both ends of it. kanter’s a bad defender so i guess that’s kinda expected from him. but favors, the expected defensive anchor has been anything but that. maybe if they want to address and correct some of their short term issues, they should play gobert more.

 

 

[GBeeParticipant]

 uh, they invested a top 10 pick in burke too. burke has actually been shooting the ball better, showing signs of breaking out of his early season shooting slump (shooting 53% in the last 5) and is coming off a game where he played well. hit some clutch shots,  8 ast 0 turn game. while exum is still showing just how much of agreen 19 y/o kid he is, shooting like 20% during their losing streak while struggling even more than burke is defensively?

no, now’s not the time. he’s not ready, nor does he deserve more minutes. he’s being brought along at the right pace for a kid with his lack of experience. if they had an adequate back up point and they were serious about competing in games, he’d probably be better off watching and learning while improving behind the scenes.

the jazz’ issue is defense and lack of experience, both issues that can only be addressed over time. burke is not a good defender, but exum is worse. he sticks to screens like glue.  the biggest disappointment for that team has been their defense. their PnR defense on both ends of it. kanter’s a bad defender so i guess that’s kinda expected from him. but favors, the expected defensive anchor has been anything but that. maybe if they want to address and correct some of their short term issues, they should play gobert more.

 

 

[bloodshyParticipant]

Two big problems GBee:

1. As bad as Exum has been on sticking to screens, he is way better than Burke on D. It’s not even close. Exum gets in trouble making rookie mistakes sometimes for sure, but so does Burke. Moreover, Burke gets burned at all times by everyone. Physically, he just gets worked on D on a consistent basis and makes pretty much every pg he faces look like a star. Another problem is that Burke fails on D due to a lack of effort. He’s often slow to get back on D and seems to only really exert himself when he has the rock in his hands. This is becoming more clear as time goes on, even if it’s also true that he’s coming out of his offensive slump recently.

On the other hand, Exum hussles (though he gets gassed faster than is normal). Exum also creates problems for other pgs due to length, speed and effort that clearly relieves pressure on the bigs on many plays even if he still gets tricked sometimes. 

2. Exum is absolutely a point guard. Anyone saying his NBA position is less than obvious has not watched him play many NBA minutes. Exum has holes in his game, but they are not pg related. He is a skilled and natural pg. When he was drafted I thought he may be able to play the 1 or 2 as DWill could. However, watching him play through 18 games it’s clear he is a natural 1 and only a 1. 

**Overall, I would continue to start Burke, though I would balance the minutes so that Exum is always at 20 mpg or more. Both of these guys are young players and will improve. Both may have major roles in the team’s future. However, they will never be a good team if they are on the floor together for long stretches IMO unless one of them progresses substantially in a way their game does not yet indicate. These guys are both 1s. To me the natural progression will be for Exum to take over and develop into an elite starting 1 over the next 3-4 years with Burke shifting into a Jason Terry-esque role. 

 

 

 

 

[GBeeParticipant]

 way better? no, they both suck defensively. there is no way better when both suck. it’s like comparing smelly turds. they’re both sht.

he doesn’t look like a natural PG to me. he looks like a slashing/ playmaking 2 who wants to play on the ball and is learning the position. his handle is weak for a point. he doesn’t have that multiple change of speed and direction in his game necessary to get to spots on the floor or to take advantage of pressure D.  his off-hand is weak too. you can heat him up bringing the ball up despite his speed because of his weak handle, forcing him to turn his back, taking precious seconds off the clock. in the half court he has like 1 change of direction (right to left cross) and that’s if his defender is shading him to his left too hard or anticipating a strong side ball screen and moving too early. i see a super low ast rate and ineffective, safe, non-playmaking passes.  he looks indecisive, passive, handcuffing himself instead of playing to his strength/natural tendency which is to use his dynamite first step, straight line drive, get to the cup and extend. just imagine if instead of leading the break, he’s streaking up the wing, or in the halfcourt instead of supplying his own momentum vs a player who’s naturally shading him to his weak off-hand and playing off, him running off screens, catching the ball on the move, turning them into curls into the paint. just attacking off of passes in general would benefit his game greatly IMO because he doesn’t have to worry about he himself creating the advantage vs the defender. also as a wing it’d make his weak off-hand less of an issue because you can split the court in half for him. for example just look at the super left-handed wings like harden and manu. part of the reason why they can almost always get to their left hand in the halfcourt and into the middle is because of where they catch the ball and start their possessions.

 

[HazelParticipant]

While Exum is prone to crafty vetran tricks on defense and he can get stuck on picks, he also has on many occasions completely shut down elite point guards for a possession.  In other words, he is up and down like a 19 year-old would be, but he has elite defensive potential.  

For about four minutes last night he completely took Ty Lawson out of the game.  Lawson was unable to get by him.  That has never happened in any game I have watched the Jazz play against Denver since Lawson arrived until last night.   

The Jazz as a team are pretty horrible at team defense, and as a result, individual defensive statistics are not great, but Exum and Trey are on opposite ends of the defensive potential spectrum. 

To me he absolutely looks like a natural PG.  He thinks pass first and second, can get by and guard opposing point guard and plays with excellent poise.  His handle will improve.  He is just two months into his rookie season, it is normal to be a bit hesitant.  Give him three years and all those weaknesses will be strenghts.  

He does also have a very good sense of off-ball movement for a young player, so I can see your point about that, but that skill does not eliminate him from being a PG, especially in the current system with Hayward, Burke and Burks on the team.  

[HazelParticipant]

While Exum is prone to crafty vetran tricks on defense and he can get stuck on picks, he also has on many occasions completely shut down elite point guards for a possession.  In other words, he is up and down like a 19 year-old would be, but he has elite defensive potential.  

For about four minutes last night he completely took Ty Lawson out of the game.  Lawson was unable to get by him.  That has never happened in any game I have watched the Jazz play against Denver since Lawson arrived until last night.   

The Jazz as a team are pretty horrible at team defense, and as a result, individual defensive statistics are not great, but Exum and Trey are on opposite ends of the defensive potential spectrum. 

To me he absolutely looks like a natural PG.  He thinks pass first and second, can get by and guard opposing point guard and plays with excellent poise.  His handle will improve.  He is just two months into his rookie season, it is normal to be a bit hesitant.  Give him three years and all those weaknesses will be strenghts.  

He does also have a very good sense of off-ball movement for a young player, so I can see your point about that, but that skill does not eliminate him from being a PG, especially in the current system with Hayward, Burke and Burks on the team.  

[GBeeParticipant]

 way better? no, they both suck defensively. there is no way better when both suck. it’s like comparing smelly turds. they’re both sht.

he doesn’t look like a natural PG to me. he looks like a slashing/ playmaking 2 who wants to play on the ball and is learning the position. his handle is weak for a point. he doesn’t have that multiple change of speed and direction in his game necessary to get to spots on the floor or to take advantage of pressure D.  his off-hand is weak too. you can heat him up bringing the ball up despite his speed because of his weak handle, forcing him to turn his back, taking precious seconds off the clock. in the half court he has like 1 change of direction (right to left cross) and that’s if his defender is shading him to his left too hard or anticipating a strong side ball screen and moving too early. i see a super low ast rate and ineffective, safe, non-playmaking passes.  he looks indecisive, passive, handcuffing himself instead of playing to his strength/natural tendency which is to use his dynamite first step, straight line drive, get to the cup and extend. just imagine if instead of leading the break, he’s streaking up the wing, or in the halfcourt instead of supplying his own momentum vs a player who’s naturally shading him to his weak off-hand and playing off, him running off screens, catching the ball on the move, turning them into curls into the paint. just attacking off of passes in general would benefit his game greatly IMO because he doesn’t have to worry about he himself creating the advantage vs the defender. also as a wing it’d make his weak off-hand less of an issue because you can split the court in half for him. for example just look at the super left-handed wings like harden and manu. part of the reason why they can almost always get to their left hand in the halfcourt and into the middle is because of where they catch the ball and start their possessions.

 

[bloodshyParticipant]

Two big problems GBee:

1. As bad as Exum has been on sticking to screens, he is way better than Burke on D. It’s not even close. Exum gets in trouble making rookie mistakes sometimes for sure, but so does Burke. Moreover, Burke gets burned at all times by everyone. Physically, he just gets worked on D on a consistent basis and makes pretty much every pg he faces look like a star. Another problem is that Burke fails on D due to a lack of effort. He’s often slow to get back on D and seems to only really exert himself when he has the rock in his hands. This is becoming more clear as time goes on, even if it’s also true that he’s coming out of his offensive slump recently.

On the other hand, Exum hussles (though he gets gassed faster than is normal). Exum also creates problems for other pgs due to length, speed and effort that clearly relieves pressure on the bigs on many plays even if he still gets tricked sometimes. 

2. Exum is absolutely a point guard. Anyone saying his NBA position is less than obvious has not watched him play many NBA minutes. Exum has holes in his game, but they are not pg related. He is a skilled and natural pg. When he was drafted I thought he may be able to play the 1 or 2 as DWill could. However, watching him play through 18 games it’s clear he is a natural 1 and only a 1. 

**Overall, I would continue to start Burke, though I would balance the minutes so that Exum is always at 20 mpg or more. Both of these guys are young players and will improve. Both may have major roles in the team’s future. However, they will never be a good team if they are on the floor together for long stretches IMO unless one of them progresses substantially in a way their game does not yet indicate. These guys are both 1s. To me the natural progression will be for Exum to take over and develop into an elite starting 1 over the next 3-4 years with Burke shifting into a Jason Terry-esque role. 

 

 

 

 

[steviechillzParticipant]

^That’s the thing GBee, they aren’t really competing with burke as the PG…so why not give Exum a chance? You wouldn’t have drafted Exum if you believed Burke was your PG for the future. I’m not even a Jazz fan, but I am a fan of giving your young guys who were expected to do some things in the league a chance when your team doesn’t have a chance of making the playoffs in a stacked Western conference!

[steviechillzParticipant]

^That’s the thing GBee, they aren’t really competing with burke as the PG…so why not give Exum a chance? You wouldn’t have drafted Exum if you believed Burke was your PG for the future. I’m not even a Jazz fan, but I am a fan of giving your young guys who were expected to do some things in the league a chance when your team doesn’t have a chance of making the playoffs in a stacked Western conference!

[GBeeParticipant]

 

they took him because he dropped and he was BPA. it’s not set in stone that exum’s even a future PG. his PG instincts actually look pretty shaky.

give burke a chance to lose his job. he’s still an asset to his team. you bench him now, he loses whatever value he did have or had any chance of building. giving him less than 2 years isn’t giving him a fair shake either, especially after he’s building some momentum after an early season slump. that’s poor player management.

imo, burke should start until he’s overtaken. it’s not close to that point yet.

 

[GBeeParticipant]

 

they took him because he dropped and he was BPA. it’s not set in stone that exum’s even a future PG. his PG instincts actually look pretty shaky.

give burke a chance to lose his job. he’s still an asset to his team. you bench him now, he loses whatever value he did have or had any chance of building. giving him less than 2 years isn’t giving him a fair shake either, especially after he’s building some momentum after an early season slump. that’s poor player management.

imo, burke should start until he’s overtaken. it’s not close to that point yet.

 

[prophetmeirParticipant]

All honesty alot of their young guys have second tier potential and talent at best. And now each one of them are looking to get paid, so what do you do let them walk or resign the same team that has been struggling ? Hopefully they will become trade chips.  I would give more min to exum, and have him on the same court with Alec and Gordan. Huge lineup and wingspan they should a match up zone with Exum Alec Gordan Favors and Gobert

[prophetmeirParticipant]

All honesty alot of their young guys have second tier potential and talent at best. And now each one of them are looking to get paid, so what do you do let them walk or resign the same team that has been struggling ? Hopefully they will become trade chips.  I would give more min to exum, and have him on the same court with Alec and Gordan. Huge lineup and wingspan they should a match up zone with Exum Alec Gordan Favors and Gobert

[Puregreen5Participant]

 The Jazz should trade for Dennis Schroder, I wonder if an Alec Burks for Dennis Schroder trade would work for the Hawks? He would be perfect for that system and start over Burke’s from Day 1. I would have Burke. become a great back-up and not trade him, untill Exum is ready to either be the 6th man, or starting SG.

[Puregreen5Participant]

 The Jazz should trade for Dennis Schroder, I wonder if an Alec Burks for Dennis Schroder trade would work for the Hawks? He would be perfect for that system and start over Burke’s from Day 1. I would have Burke. become a great back-up and not trade him, untill Exum is ready to either be the 6th man, or starting SG.

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