[OhCanada-Participant]

StarBucksSucks brought this up in another thread and nobody responded to him on this topic. Im interested to know what people think.

"Everyone said Woj and Broussard were way off base with other FACTORS rumors, which were in fact on point. Either way time will tell. Everyone posting is so caught up in shooting down the rumor rather than addressing the question I posed…Is Love worth Wiggins and Bennett?" (StarBucksSucks)

 

[What The DevilParticipant]

 Depends on how one views the team. If they believe the Cavs can’t waste even one year developing a young core around James then yes Kevin Love is worth Wiggins/Bennett. If the Cavs and Lebron think waiting a year and giving the young pieces a chance to jell with all the new changes then the trade wouldn’t really be worth giving up two young and solid looking prospects.

I personally think they should wait and sit on both Wiggins and Bennett and see how that team develops. I think Bennett is going to be a very solid player and I believe Wiggins can contribute at least on the defensive end and using his athleticism. No other team can really trump a Wiggins trade later during the season and the value for Love is going to go down with each day Saunders fails to trade him. Unless people think Thompson is going to be worth the massive contract he will inevitably get(he won’t be btw).

 

 

[DCParticipant]

 Close this thread off, you summed up the Cavs options perfectly.

[DCParticipant]

 Close this thread off, you summed up the Cavs options perfectly.

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

 Honestly, if i were the wolves, i’d be looking at klay thompson/ david lee along with someone like draymond green for kevin love.. i think thats a better deal than anything cleveland could put together.

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

 Honestly, if i were the wolves, i’d be looking at klay thompson/ david lee along with someone like draymond green for kevin love.. i think thats a better deal than anything cleveland could put together.

[What The DevilParticipant]

 Not saying you’re wrong or anything but why do people think Klay is so good? I mean he’s going to be a RFA and he is going to get offered a max for some odd reason and I truly believe he is going to be overpaid. Not only that but is he truly a game breaking player? Is trading Love for Thompson going to put the Wolves over the top? Wiggins has the potential to be that kind of player in a few years while I don’t see Klay ever being that player. Lee is overpaid but solid and I do like Green but not enough to give a star player up for.

Perhaps it’s just me but I take the potential that the Cavs offer over the more solid contributers that the Wolves would get from Golden State. 

Oh and assuming the summer league is a sign of things to come then Bennett could be a solid contributer as well.

 

[What The DevilParticipant]

 Not saying you’re wrong or anything but why do people think Klay is so good? I mean he’s going to be a RFA and he is going to get offered a max for some odd reason and I truly believe he is going to be overpaid. Not only that but is he truly a game breaking player? Is trading Love for Thompson going to put the Wolves over the top? Wiggins has the potential to be that kind of player in a few years while I don’t see Klay ever being that player. Lee is overpaid but solid and I do like Green but not enough to give a star player up for.

Perhaps it’s just me but I take the potential that the Cavs offer over the more solid contributers that the Wolves would get from Golden State. 

Oh and assuming the summer league is a sign of things to come then Bennett could be a solid contributer as well.

 

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

Thompson is a career 41% shooter for 3, a solid defender, still young, and has the potential to be a bigtime scorer in the league. he still has a lot of potential as well, and i just think that the package that golden state could possibly put together would be better than anything cleveland could.

and for the record.. the summer league is never a sign of anything to come.. i wouldnt read anything into that about bennett other than he lost some weight.

  

 

 

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

Thompson is a career 41% shooter for 3, a solid defender, still young, and has the potential to be a bigtime scorer in the league. he still has a lot of potential as well, and i just think that the package that golden state could possibly put together would be better than anything cleveland could.

and for the record.. the summer league is never a sign of anything to come.. i wouldnt read anything into that about bennett other than he lost some weight.

  

 

 

[What The DevilParticipant]

 Depends on how one views the team. If they believe the Cavs can’t waste even one year developing a young core around James then yes Kevin Love is worth Wiggins/Bennett. If the Cavs and Lebron think waiting a year and giving the young pieces a chance to jell with all the new changes then the trade wouldn’t really be worth giving up two young and solid looking prospects.

I personally think they should wait and sit on both Wiggins and Bennett and see how that team develops. I think Bennett is going to be a very solid player and I believe Wiggins can contribute at least on the defensive end and using his athleticism. No other team can really trump a Wiggins trade later during the season and the value for Love is going to go down with each day Saunders fails to trade him. Unless people think Thompson is going to be worth the massive contract he will inevitably get(he won’t be btw).

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

I think Love is defenitely worth Wiggins and Bennett, but not on a 1 year contract. He is a free agent next year and Cleveland and Lebron should be patient and build a team they can suistain dominance by developing their prospects for a year around Lebron and then dipping into free agency next year.

Clevelands hand maybe forced by Love wanting to compete for a championship and sign an extension immediatly. If he is demanding a trade now and a team his team A is not willing to give as much as his team B maybe he decides team B is the best way to go to start developing. Love would be smart to be patient although I do want to see Wiggins and Bennett in Minni.

Aside from that Love is an elite basketball player and a staple on team USA and the allstar team. He is 26 and has at the very least 6 years of elite basketball left. He is amongst the best stretch four in the league with Nowitzki, Aldridge, and I think he is better then Bosh in perimeter scoring and a much better rebounder. On the Heat rebounding was a huge issue although Love is one of the best rebounders in the league and Lebron will appreciate that. He is a perfect fit next to Lebron.

Wiggins and Bennett have unlimited potential and together I think they will grow extremely well. They played together on CIA Bounce and Team Canada in highschool and have a great chemistry. They bring the best out of eachother. You can rebuild a team around those two alone and as an owner be able to run a successful buisness on just hyping them let alone on thier progress. 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

I think Love is defenitely worth Wiggins and Bennett, but not on a 1 year contract. He is a free agent next year and Cleveland and Lebron should be patient and build a team they can suistain dominance by developing their prospects for a year around Lebron and then dipping into free agency next year.

Clevelands hand maybe forced by Love wanting to compete for a championship and sign an extension immediatly. If he is demanding a trade now and a team his team A is not willing to give as much as his team B maybe he decides team B is the best way to go to start developing. Love would be smart to be patient although I do want to see Wiggins and Bennett in Minni.

Aside from that Love is an elite basketball player and a staple on team USA and the allstar team. He is 26 and has at the very least 6 years of elite basketball left. He is amongst the best stretch four in the league with Nowitzki, Aldridge, and I think he is better then Bosh in perimeter scoring and a much better rebounder. On the Heat rebounding was a huge issue although Love is one of the best rebounders in the league and Lebron will appreciate that. He is a perfect fit next to Lebron.

Wiggins and Bennett have unlimited potential and together I think they will grow extremely well. They played together on CIA Bounce and Team Canada in highschool and have a great chemistry. They bring the best out of eachother. You can rebuild a team around those two alone and as an owner be able to run a successful buisness on just hyping them let alone on thier progress. 

 

[joecheck88Participant]

IMO, no they are worth more than just Love. On any contract.

I think Bennett will end up doing Love like things. Stretch 4. He won’t rebound or shoot as well as Love but I think he’ll bring some shot blocking. Bennett is further away from helping this team win though. 

Wiggins, IMO, is a better piece than Love. I think with Wiggins they are as close to a championship this year as they would with Love this year. Years after though, the Cavs are better with Wiggins. Like I said in another thread I think he will be ROY because he will get 14&5 with they hype of the Cavs winning and the defense he and Lebron will be bringing together. 

So no, I’m not doing the trade and Love isn’t worth it. Love is great and would fit great and could very well bring a championship to Cleveland with Lebron but I think it’s a wash this season and every year Wiggins is there the chances for a ring go up. 

That’s my take on it. 

[joecheck88Participant]

IMO, no they are worth more than just Love. On any contract.

I think Bennett will end up doing Love like things. Stretch 4. He won’t rebound or shoot as well as Love but I think he’ll bring some shot blocking. Bennett is further away from helping this team win though. 

Wiggins, IMO, is a better piece than Love. I think with Wiggins they are as close to a championship this year as they would with Love this year. Years after though, the Cavs are better with Wiggins. Like I said in another thread I think he will be ROY because he will get 14&5 with they hype of the Cavs winning and the defense he and Lebron will be bringing together. 

So no, I’m not doing the trade and Love isn’t worth it. Love is great and would fit great and could very well bring a championship to Cleveland with Lebron but I think it’s a wash this season and every year Wiggins is there the chances for a ring go up. 

That’s my take on it. 

[PurpleMonkeyDishwasherParticipant]

 Kevin Love is the leagues best rebounder, best passing big man,  and the best 3 pt shooting big man in the  NBA.  With love Cleveland knows what it is getting… with young players you can’tbe as certain.  

 With Cavs ability to lure players to Cleveland on  on affordable contracts with Lebron it would be foolish for them not to make the trade.

The trade is about maximizing what is left of LeBron’s career with ready made players that are ready for top competition.   Wiggins and Bennett can be good NBA players but many things need to go right for them to be worth K. Love. 

[PurpleMonkeyDishwasherParticipant]

 Kevin Love is the leagues best rebounder, best passing big man,  and the best 3 pt shooting big man in the  NBA.  With love Cleveland knows what it is getting… with young players you can’tbe as certain.  

 With Cavs ability to lure players to Cleveland on  on affordable contracts with Lebron it would be foolish for them not to make the trade.

The trade is about maximizing what is left of LeBron’s career with ready made players that are ready for top competition.   Wiggins and Bennett can be good NBA players but many things need to go right for them to be worth K. Love. 

[StarbucksSucksParticipant]

 This is the ultimate no-win situation.  Many posters have debated the strengths and weaknesses of K-Love.  With regard to the young Cavs their ceiling for growth is really high.  I really feel that Bennett is just scratching the service, as bigs sometimes take a little longer to adjust, let alone a young big with ‘new money’.  We are so far from even understanding what Wiggins may become.   If the Cavs want to establish a team based on a defensive identity you choose the rookies.  If you want to establish yourself more in a ‘showtime’ vein.  K – Love all the way.  I am really conflicted,  because I believe LeBron can thrive either way.  But, I just have this feeling that working with LeBron these young men could be really special for a long time.  I know there is a strong possibility that they will not be championship ready this year, but in this case contending for a long time should be the goal.  Trade one or the other.  Not both.

[StarbucksSucksParticipant]

 This is the ultimate no-win situation.  Many posters have debated the strengths and weaknesses of K-Love.  With regard to the young Cavs their ceiling for growth is really high.  I really feel that Bennett is just scratching the service, as bigs sometimes take a little longer to adjust, let alone a young big with ‘new money’.  We are so far from even understanding what Wiggins may become.   If the Cavs want to establish a team based on a defensive identity you choose the rookies.  If you want to establish yourself more in a ‘showtime’ vein.  K – Love all the way.  I am really conflicted,  because I believe LeBron can thrive either way.  But, I just have this feeling that working with LeBron these young men could be really special for a long time.  I know there is a strong possibility that they will not be championship ready this year, but in this case contending for a long time should be the goal.  Trade one or the other.  Not both.

[HazelParticipant]

This is starting to look like Carmelo from Denver.  Love’s strenghts are well documented here, but nobody has mentioned these things.

1-He has had multiple injuries that have lasted a long time-Love on the bench is worthless.

2-He is a horrible defender.  Not just bad, but horrible.  He will start positioning for a rebound before his own guy shoots!  He does not have the physical tools to be better than average.

3-His teams have ALWAYS under-achieved.  

To me, he is the type of player who, given his salary, is a wash.  I would rather have 20 million to spend on high-level role players.  Do you think Jordon would rather have Love or Pippen (Wiggins IMO) and Larry Johnson light (Bennett)?  

Also, if I am Lebron I like the idea of "Carrying" this team to the Eastern Conference finals and possibly beyond this year.  All the while Wiggins guards the best wing player most of the game, Irving scores and distributes for long stretches.  Bennett, Verajao, and Thompson run through walls to get rebounds. Then when I am  35 I hit the real gravy days with Wiggins and Irving in the middle of their prime.  I have a chance to be on a contender for the next 12 years.  That sounds like more winning than Love chucking and rebounding but not defending.  

I would like to see those outlet passes though…

I think whomever ends up getting love is going to be thinking what NY is thinking right now.  We sold our future for something that looked better than it really was.  

[HazelParticipant]

This is starting to look like Carmelo from Denver.  Love’s strenghts are well documented here, but nobody has mentioned these things.

1-He has had multiple injuries that have lasted a long time-Love on the bench is worthless.

2-He is a horrible defender.  Not just bad, but horrible.  He will start positioning for a rebound before his own guy shoots!  He does not have the physical tools to be better than average.

3-His teams have ALWAYS under-achieved.  

To me, he is the type of player who, given his salary, is a wash.  I would rather have 20 million to spend on high-level role players.  Do you think Jordon would rather have Love or Pippen (Wiggins IMO) and Larry Johnson light (Bennett)?  

Also, if I am Lebron I like the idea of "Carrying" this team to the Eastern Conference finals and possibly beyond this year.  All the while Wiggins guards the best wing player most of the game, Irving scores and distributes for long stretches.  Bennett, Verajao, and Thompson run through walls to get rebounds. Then when I am  35 I hit the real gravy days with Wiggins and Irving in the middle of their prime.  I have a chance to be on a contender for the next 12 years.  That sounds like more winning than Love chucking and rebounding but not defending.  

I would like to see those outlet passes though…

I think whomever ends up getting love is going to be thinking what NY is thinking right now.  We sold our future for something that looked better than it really was.  

[IIwIIParticipant]

What seems to be missing from this debate is that if the asking price is too high, Love risks hurting the team he gets traded too.  Why help drive up the price if you want to win a championship?  Its in his best game theory interest to get trade for as little as possible.  Thompson is crucial to GSW and wiggins looks like a good super quick and long defensive complement to Love.  

[IIwIIParticipant]

What seems to be missing from this debate is that if the asking price is too high, Love risks hurting the team he gets traded too.  Why help drive up the price if you want to win a championship?  Its in his best game theory interest to get trade for as little as possible.  Thompson is crucial to GSW and wiggins looks like a good super quick and long defensive complement to Love.  

[addi troupaParticipant]

 That’s the question…..it’s proven that defense wins titles offensive teams who can’t defend make deep runs and come up short.  U think pop won’t pick and roll Loves ass every possession in a series and expose that defense.  If I’m Lebron I take one step back to take two forward and mentor these young guys.  Like hazel said he could win longer but not necessarily quicker.

[addi troupaParticipant]

 That’s the question…..it’s proven that defense wins titles offensive teams who can’t defend make deep runs and come up short.  U think pop won’t pick and roll Loves ass every possession in a series and expose that defense.  If I’m Lebron I take one step back to take two forward and mentor these young guys.  Like hazel said he could win longer but not necessarily quicker.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

If they get Kevin Love, then they basically can’t play Mike Miller.  Can’t have Kyrie, Kevin, AND Mike Miller in the game at the same time, even though (on paper) a five man unit of Irving, Waiters, Mike Miller, LeBron, and Kevin Love makes a lot of sense (if only on offense).

Kevin Love gives you scoring, rebounding, 3 point shooting, and passing from the power forward spot.

Well, LeBron’s best position is the 4.  Anthony Bennett is a promising stretch four who can rebound, score, and shoot.  TT is a good rebounder at the 4 spot. 

Between LeBron and Kyrie Irving that is a TON of usage and each guy needs shots and the ball in his hand.  How many shots would Kevin Love get?  With Andy V under the basket and with LeBron being best used in post ups, then you would essentially have Kevin Love roaming the 3 point line like a glorified Shane Battier. 

3 point shooting options for the Heat now include Kyrie Irving, James Jones, and Mike Miller.  Not sure what Dion Waiters does from 3, but LeBron can make a 3 as can Anthony Bennett.  They could still be in the hunt for Ray Allen, too.  Joe Harris is another solid 3 point threat.

Passing: I will take LeBron’s passing over anyone’s.  Kyrie Irving gets assists.  Dellavodova is a good passer off the bench.  Mike Miller can pass some too.

If I am Cleveland, I just try to sign Ray Allen as a 6th man instant scorer type.  Then I try to sign an athletic 4/5 who can defend the paint, block shots, and rebound.  I would go after Patric Young.  I think he would be a good fit as a guy who is somewhere between Joel Anthony and Birdman.  You could then go small with those Irving/Waiters backcourts, LeBron and Wiggins front line, with Patric Young being the main shot blocker, inside rebounder, and put back artist. 

Next summer, they can go after Kevin Love as the missing piece, OR the guy that turns a title team into a full blown DYNASTY.

Another thing I would do would be to play Kevin Love off other guys.  ACTUALLY, the BEST fit for the Cavs next summer would be Marc Gasol.  He will be 30 so he is still in his prime, but also a veteran in WIN NOW mode.  He gives them an upgrade at center, a former DPOY who can defend inside, orchestrate a team defense, and block shots.  Not the best rebounder, but he could help out LeBron, TT, and Wiggins on the boards.  Plus he played with Mike Miller last year in Memphis.  Gasol can also let the Cavs play Twin Towers in some HUGE lineups that would have Wiggins at the 2, LeBron at the 3, Andy V at the 4 as a 7 footer, and Marc at center. 

Marc Gasol isn’t the best low post scorer, but he can score from down there.  He can also make hook shots, score from the high post, and hit jumpers.  More importantly, he is a GREAT passer and is basically a point center. 

With Gasol at center, the Cavs could start LeBron at the 4, Wiggins at the 3, with Waiters and Irving in the backcourt to give them some of everything.  Marc even has 3 point range but he doesn’t use it.  If he shoots the 3 more then he could be a beast with the Cavs.

Then, off the bench they could go big, with Dellavadova and Mike Miller/James Jones at the 2, Anthony Bennett and TT at the forward spots with Andy V at center. 

Marc Gasol added to LeBron and the Young Guns would give the Cavs an awesome blend of scoring, shooting, rebounding, passing, and defense. 

Marc could replicate the Grizzlies power game, with Anthony Bennett doing some Z Bo stuff inside on the low blocks or with 15 foot jab step jumpers.  And, of course, a high post/low post game of LeBron and Marc would be insanely great.  Marc is one heck of an outlet passer, too.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

If they get Kevin Love, then they basically can’t play Mike Miller.  Can’t have Kyrie, Kevin, AND Mike Miller in the game at the same time, even though (on paper) a five man unit of Irving, Waiters, Mike Miller, LeBron, and Kevin Love makes a lot of sense (if only on offense).

Kevin Love gives you scoring, rebounding, 3 point shooting, and passing from the power forward spot.

Well, LeBron’s best position is the 4.  Anthony Bennett is a promising stretch four who can rebound, score, and shoot.  TT is a good rebounder at the 4 spot. 

Between LeBron and Kyrie Irving that is a TON of usage and each guy needs shots and the ball in his hand.  How many shots would Kevin Love get?  With Andy V under the basket and with LeBron being best used in post ups, then you would essentially have Kevin Love roaming the 3 point line like a glorified Shane Battier. 

3 point shooting options for the Heat now include Kyrie Irving, James Jones, and Mike Miller.  Not sure what Dion Waiters does from 3, but LeBron can make a 3 as can Anthony Bennett.  They could still be in the hunt for Ray Allen, too.  Joe Harris is another solid 3 point threat.

Passing: I will take LeBron’s passing over anyone’s.  Kyrie Irving gets assists.  Dellavodova is a good passer off the bench.  Mike Miller can pass some too.

If I am Cleveland, I just try to sign Ray Allen as a 6th man instant scorer type.  Then I try to sign an athletic 4/5 who can defend the paint, block shots, and rebound.  I would go after Patric Young.  I think he would be a good fit as a guy who is somewhere between Joel Anthony and Birdman.  You could then go small with those Irving/Waiters backcourts, LeBron and Wiggins front line, with Patric Young being the main shot blocker, inside rebounder, and put back artist. 

Next summer, they can go after Kevin Love as the missing piece, OR the guy that turns a title team into a full blown DYNASTY.

Another thing I would do would be to play Kevin Love off other guys.  ACTUALLY, the BEST fit for the Cavs next summer would be Marc Gasol.  He will be 30 so he is still in his prime, but also a veteran in WIN NOW mode.  He gives them an upgrade at center, a former DPOY who can defend inside, orchestrate a team defense, and block shots.  Not the best rebounder, but he could help out LeBron, TT, and Wiggins on the boards.  Plus he played with Mike Miller last year in Memphis.  Gasol can also let the Cavs play Twin Towers in some HUGE lineups that would have Wiggins at the 2, LeBron at the 3, Andy V at the 4 as a 7 footer, and Marc at center. 

Marc Gasol isn’t the best low post scorer, but he can score from down there.  He can also make hook shots, score from the high post, and hit jumpers.  More importantly, he is a GREAT passer and is basically a point center. 

With Gasol at center, the Cavs could start LeBron at the 4, Wiggins at the 3, with Waiters and Irving in the backcourt to give them some of everything.  Marc even has 3 point range but he doesn’t use it.  If he shoots the 3 more then he could be a beast with the Cavs.

Then, off the bench they could go big, with Dellavadova and Mike Miller/James Jones at the 2, Anthony Bennett and TT at the forward spots with Andy V at center. 

Marc Gasol added to LeBron and the Young Guns would give the Cavs an awesome blend of scoring, shooting, rebounding, passing, and defense. 

Marc could replicate the Grizzlies power game, with Anthony Bennett doing some Z Bo stuff inside on the low blocks or with 15 foot jab step jumpers.  And, of course, a high post/low post game of LeBron and Marc would be insanely great.  Marc is one heck of an outlet passer, too.

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

Lots of assumptions. Sure Bennett might not be a bust. But he was TERRIBLE last season. So assuming he can be a good NBA player is probably wrong. I wouldn’t give up on him, by any means. But he has to play better than he did last season or else he is out of the league. I think he gets it together. But it is only a guess right now. He could be bust or he could be starter material. We don’t know. He was good in college, but he was terrible last year. Not too many guys are legitimately terrible during their rookie season and then turn it around. But it certainly does happen. 

Wiggins should turn out to be great in a few years. But go back and look at the list of players drafted number one in the last 25 years. There are lots of HOFs on that list, but also a bunch of busts and mediocre guys who are much worse than Love. Love is putting up easy HOF numbers. Wiggins has to develop into a great player to be as good as Love is right now. 

So if Love agrees to a sign and trade and you can lock him up, in his prime, for six more years and get prime Love with end of prime Lebron. That is the making of a dynasty. 

Even if you think Wiggins is going to be great, you must know the odds aren’t 100%. They never are. So let’s say there is a 20% chance he is a mediocre player. It is tough to not take the known asset right now. 

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

Lots of assumptions. Sure Bennett might not be a bust. But he was TERRIBLE last season. So assuming he can be a good NBA player is probably wrong. I wouldn’t give up on him, by any means. But he has to play better than he did last season or else he is out of the league. I think he gets it together. But it is only a guess right now. He could be bust or he could be starter material. We don’t know. He was good in college, but he was terrible last year. Not too many guys are legitimately terrible during their rookie season and then turn it around. But it certainly does happen. 

Wiggins should turn out to be great in a few years. But go back and look at the list of players drafted number one in the last 25 years. There are lots of HOFs on that list, but also a bunch of busts and mediocre guys who are much worse than Love. Love is putting up easy HOF numbers. Wiggins has to develop into a great player to be as good as Love is right now. 

So if Love agrees to a sign and trade and you can lock him up, in his prime, for six more years and get prime Love with end of prime Lebron. That is the making of a dynasty. 

Even if you think Wiggins is going to be great, you must know the odds aren’t 100%. They never are. So let’s say there is a 20% chance he is a mediocre player. It is tough to not take the known asset right now. 

[PurpleMonkeyDishwasherParticipant]

Comparing Wiggins as Pippen is foolish… Pippen is a top all-time top 50 player. For Hazel  To say Love positions himself early on rebounds is moronic.  Love gets most rebounds on hustle and desire and that is why he is the bedt in the league.  Love can many times be out beyond the three and still get many offensive rebounds.

[PurpleMonkeyDishwasherParticipant]

Comparing Wiggins as Pippen is foolish… Pippen is a top all-time top 50 player. For Hazel  To say Love positions himself early on rebounds is moronic.  Love gets most rebounds on hustle and desire and that is why he is the bedt in the league.  Love can many times be out beyond the three and still get many offensive rebounds.

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