[moximusParticipant]

 basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/230872/Cavaliers-Hold-Dion-Waiters-Trade-Talks-With-Bulls-Knicks-76ers

The Cleveland Cavaliers are pursuing trade scenarios involving Dion Waiters.

The Chicago Bulls, New York Knicks and Philadelphia 76ers have spoken to the Cavaliers, with Luol Deng, Iman Shumpert and Evan Turner mentioned as targets.

 

 

 

 

[Toronto16Participant]

 When will the Knicks realize they need size, not another chucker?

[r377Participant]

This would be entertaining to watch – Melo, Bargs, Jr Smith and Waiters chucking up shots. They could play the game with 2 basketballs on the court and each would still be complaining they weren’t get enough shots !!!

I cannot see Philly giving up Turner but Deng will be a FA so Chicago might work.

If Waiters gets traded I wonder when the Cavs will cut their losses with Anthony Bennett and look to ship him also ?

[Ny2daDeathOFmeParticipant]

 Waiters and Bennett 

To Raptors For

 

DeRozan and Q. Acy

 

 

[Ny2daDeathOFmeParticipant]

 Waiters and Bennett 

To Raptors For

 

DeRozan and Q. Acy

 

 

[r377Participant]

This would be entertaining to watch – Melo, Bargs, Jr Smith and Waiters chucking up shots. They could play the game with 2 basketballs on the court and each would still be complaining they weren’t get enough shots !!!

I cannot see Philly giving up Turner but Deng will be a FA so Chicago might work.

If Waiters gets traded I wonder when the Cavs will cut their losses with Anthony Bennett and look to ship him also ?

[Toronto16Participant]

 When will the Knicks realize they need size, not another chucker?

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

 Me includung the majoriy of posters here called it. That the Cavs made a huge mistake picking Waiters and him going so in the draft high. 

[TomShoeParticipant]

 Agreed.

The only reason they took a reach on Waiters was because they were looking for a backcourt partner to pair with Irving. When they got the #4 pick in the draft, they were worried that their main target (Beal) was going to be taken by the Wizards. The Wiz needed also needed a backcourt partner for Wall (go figure), and it was consensus who they were going to draft.

The Bobcats were widely rumored to be shopping their pick (#2) to be able to get an extra pick out of the draft. I assume they attempted to swap picks, but MJ took the safe route and took MKG. So the Cavs panicked, and here we are now.

The main reason they had a bad draft was because they ignored talent and drafted for fit instead. In the top 5-10 picks, you always go for the most talented player.

[TomShoeParticipant]

 Agreed.

The only reason they took a reach on Waiters was because they were looking for a backcourt partner to pair with Irving. When they got the #4 pick in the draft, they were worried that their main target (Beal) was going to be taken by the Wizards. The Wiz needed also needed a backcourt partner for Wall (go figure), and it was consensus who they were going to draft.

The Bobcats were widely rumored to be shopping their pick (#2) to be able to get an extra pick out of the draft. I assume they attempted to swap picks, but MJ took the safe route and took MKG. So the Cavs panicked, and here we are now.

The main reason they had a bad draft was because they ignored talent and drafted for fit instead. In the top 5-10 picks, you always go for the most talented player.

[r377Participant]

90% of us had Harrison Barnes going to Cleveland at 4.

Absolutely no one had Tristian Thompson or Anthony Bennett going to Cleveland…

[r377Participant]

90% of us had Harrison Barnes going to Cleveland at 4.

Absolutely no one had Tristian Thompson or Anthony Bennett going to Cleveland…

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

 Me includung the majoriy of posters here called it. That the Cavs made a huge mistake picking Waiters and him going so in the draft high. 

[Steven]

 ill be so pissed if the knicks trade for him. 

[Steven]

 ill be so pissed if the knicks trade for him. 

[qDizzle32Participant]

 From everything I’ve heard about him, he’s been a pain in the ass to the whole organization this year as he got into an altercation with Tristan Thompson in the locker room. Thats also why he hasnt been playing as many minutes and coming off the bench lately. Sucks for the Cavs that such a good talent to almost have to be traded over his selfishness. 

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

And of course the rumor that he broke Kyrie’s nose.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

And of course the rumor that he broke Kyrie’s nose.

[qDizzle32Participant]

 From everything I’ve heard about him, he’s been a pain in the ass to the whole organization this year as he got into an altercation with Tristan Thompson in the locker room. Thats also why he hasnt been playing as many minutes and coming off the bench lately. Sucks for the Cavs that such a good talent to almost have to be traded over his selfishness. 

[ItsRainingNegsParticipant]

 I like Waiters man, I but hope all this anger about the ball is him wanting to help the team, not for his own accord. I think his head is in the right place though, let’s seem him in Chicago!

[ItsRainingNegsParticipant]

 I like Waiters man, I but hope all this anger about the ball is him wanting to help the team, not for his own accord. I think his head is in the right place though, let’s seem him in Chicago!

[ItsRainingNegsParticipant]

 I like Waiters man, but I hope all this anger about the ball is him wanting to help the team, not for his own accord. I think his head is in the right place though, let’s seem him in Chicago!

[ItsRainingNegsParticipant]

 I like Waiters man, but I hope all this anger about the ball is him wanting to help the team, not for his own accord. I think his head is in the right place though, let’s seem him in Chicago!

[omphalosParticipant]

 To think that could have been Barnes or Drummond. Cavs are idiots.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

The thing is, you can always say hindsight is 20-20 but even back then everyone thought the Cavs would take Barnes or Drummond!

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

The thing is, you can always say hindsight is 20-20 but even back then everyone thought the Cavs would take Barnes or Drummond!

[omphalosParticipant]

 To think that could have been Barnes or Drummond. Cavs are idiots.

[sheepish_moParticipant]

 Lol cavs pretty much.  Chris Grant for worst GM in the league.

[sheepish_moParticipant]

 Lol cavs pretty much.  Chris Grant for worst GM in the league.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 It would be absolutely hilarious if the Knicks traded Iman Shumpert, there only healthy good defensive player for another inefficient scorer who doesn’t play defense.  I’m assuming that rumor is can’t be true, as it looks like almost a caricature of the team’s recent moves.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 It would be absolutely hilarious if the Knicks traded Iman Shumpert, there only healthy good defensive player for another inefficient scorer who doesn’t play defense.  I’m assuming that rumor is can’t be true, as it looks like almost a caricature of the team’s recent moves.

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

 How does a team pick a bench player top five in a very deep talented draft. Amazing.

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

 How does a team pick a bench player top five in a very deep talented draft. Amazing.

[NYBALLASParticipant]

 Only ig my stupid ass managed twolves hadn’t jumped the gun on shipping out williams for something shitty just for the sake of doing a trade maybe they coulda gotten in on this 

[NYBALLASParticipant]

 Only ig my stupid ass managed twolves hadn’t jumped the gun on shipping out williams for something shitty just for the sake of doing a trade maybe they coulda gotten in on this 

[machu46Participant]

 As a Syracuse fan, I can’t say I’m surprised that he hasn’t worked out with Cleveland.  He just isn’t a good fit next to a ball-dominant PG like Kyrie.  For the same reason, I don’t think putting him next to Derrick Rose would be good for him either.  I think the Knicks would be a much better fit for him personally, but I don’t think trading Shumpert for him makes the Knicks a better team.  They already have JR Smith for what Dion brings to the table.  I also don’t like the idea of him being next to his former teammate in Philly (MCW).  MCW has had some growing up to do of his own, and he appears to have really gotten his head on straight.  I’d be worried that Waiters poor attitude might rub off on MCW.

At the end of the day, I said before the draft that Dion is ideally a team’s sixth man, where he can come off the bench and handle the ball a lot for a team’s second unit.  When Rose is healthy, if Chicago started Rose, Butler, and whatever SG/SF they end up with (assuming Deng is gone), and then had Dion come off the bench to give them a scoring punch, that could work.  But I really don’t think Waiters works as a starter in the NBA unless he really changes his approach to the game.

 

 

 

 

 

[machu46Participant]

 As a Syracuse fan, I can’t say I’m surprised that he hasn’t worked out with Cleveland.  He just isn’t a good fit next to a ball-dominant PG like Kyrie.  For the same reason, I don’t think putting him next to Derrick Rose would be good for him either.  I think the Knicks would be a much better fit for him personally, but I don’t think trading Shumpert for him makes the Knicks a better team.  They already have JR Smith for what Dion brings to the table.  I also don’t like the idea of him being next to his former teammate in Philly (MCW).  MCW has had some growing up to do of his own, and he appears to have really gotten his head on straight.  I’d be worried that Waiters poor attitude might rub off on MCW.

At the end of the day, I said before the draft that Dion is ideally a team’s sixth man, where he can come off the bench and handle the ball a lot for a team’s second unit.  When Rose is healthy, if Chicago started Rose, Butler, and whatever SG/SF they end up with (assuming Deng is gone), and then had Dion come off the bench to give them a scoring punch, that could work.  But I really don’t think Waiters works as a starter in the NBA unless he really changes his approach to the game.

 

 

 

 

 

[ItsRainingNegsParticipant]

Lol are you all serious though? Drummond is the better prospect and Barnes was the better fit but if you don’t think Waiters can be one of the top twos in the league then you are going to be the same guys hollerin’ about how you knew Waiters was gonna be an All Pro Omg lmao CALLED IT! Haha 100 games in and everybody already knows what’s up. 

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

I’ve never been and never will be a fan of Waiters.  

Barnes would have been the perfect fit.  Hell, I had Barnes going to Cleveland in my mock.  And Waiters going 8th to T-Dot.

[ItsRainingNegsParticipant]

 I’m not gonna try to convince you, and management chose a horrible fit next to Kyrie in Waiters. But management chose who I think will be a go-to scorer with experience and you can’t hate the player for not being a good fit. I want to see more creativity with the ball but he just hasn’t gotten the ball enough. In time we will see. 

[ItsRainingNegsParticipant]

 I’m not gonna try to convince you, and management chose a horrible fit next to Kyrie in Waiters. But management chose who I think will be a go-to scorer with experience and you can’t hate the player for not being a good fit. I want to see more creativity with the ball but he just hasn’t gotten the ball enough. In time we will see. 

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

I’ve never been and never will be a fan of Waiters.  

Barnes would have been the perfect fit.  Hell, I had Barnes going to Cleveland in my mock.  And Waiters going 8th to T-Dot.

[ItsRainingNegsParticipant]

Lol are you all serious though? Drummond is the better prospect and Barnes was the better fit but if you don’t think Waiters can be one of the top twos in the league then you are going to be the same guys hollerin’ about how you knew Waiters was gonna be an All Pro Omg lmao CALLED IT! Haha 100 games in and everybody already knows what’s up. 

[KidIcarus35Participant]

Im all for trading him, but giving up on him now makes them look really dumb for not drafting Dipo

[KidIcarus35Participant]

Im all for trading him, but giving up on him now makes them look really dumb for not drafting Dipo

[Cavaliers420Participant]

 It makes me so sad hearing this, the kid is a great talent and where ever he goes I wish him the best. I knew on draft night the cavs should have took Harrison Barnes, but &$#%#&@! CG and his picks.. I hope the cavs can some how manage a trade with chicago for Luol Deng. I like his veteran presences and he is great off the ball so it could compliment Irving better. 

 But honestly who knows what the cavs will do anymore.

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

 I feel you because Barnes is so solid, but he is a pu$$y. I would never count on him as a leader or on his heart. Waiters at least can get there, its not in Barnes. Plus he didn’t want to come here. You don’t want to be here f you.

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

 I feel you because Barnes is so solid, but he is a pu$$y. I would never count on him as a leader or on his heart. Waiters at least can get there, its not in Barnes. Plus he didn’t want to come here. You don’t want to be here f you.

[Cavaliers420Participant]

 It makes me so sad hearing this, the kid is a great talent and where ever he goes I wish him the best. I knew on draft night the cavs should have took Harrison Barnes, but &$#%#&@! CG and his picks.. I hope the cavs can some how manage a trade with chicago for Luol Deng. I like his veteran presences and he is great off the ball so it could compliment Irving better. 

 But honestly who knows what the cavs will do anymore.

[delfamParticipant]

 should of also had Jonas instead of Thompson

[delfamParticipant]

 should of also had Jonas instead of Thompson

[mj23mj23besteverParticipant]

the cavs have messed up so bad the past two drafts barnes would be a perfect compliment too kyrie and pretty much anyhtign this year been better than bennett

[mj23mj23besteverParticipant]

the cavs have messed up so bad the past two drafts barnes would be a perfect compliment too kyrie and pretty much anyhtign this year been better than bennett

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

According to everyone the Cav’s should have taken Barnes or Drummond. I have never seen this much hostility over a guy that who should have gone 6th instead of 4th. This is not a Bowie and Jordan deal. 

The Cavs wanted MKG and Beal. Attempted to trade Charlotte the 4th, 24th, 32nd, 34th pick of that draft that was considered deep, to get one of those players not Waiters. The only other guy really in the conversation was Drummond, who Grant really liked and Barnes who nobody trusted (as per a quote from Scott before the draft). Scott wanted Waiters and Drummond was considered even riskier. As of right now I bet more than half of all the GM would have picked Drummond 2^nd over Beal in hindsight. Charlotte would be better with Beal(w/Kemba) or Drummond(w/Zeller or Mullens). They like Lillard to but knew that would’t work out. 

I have concerns over the pick but since his missed games he has been really good. Plus the 2 games before that he was fine. 

It’s not like they spent a top 10 pick on Austin Rivers.

 

 

 

  

 

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

According to everyone the Cav’s should have taken Barnes or Drummond. I have never seen this much hostility over a guy that who should have gone 6th instead of 4th. This is not a Bowie and Jordan deal. 

The Cavs wanted MKG and Beal. Attempted to trade Charlotte the 4th, 24th, 32nd, 34th pick of that draft that was considered deep, to get one of those players not Waiters. The only other guy really in the conversation was Drummond, who Grant really liked and Barnes who nobody trusted (as per a quote from Scott before the draft). Scott wanted Waiters and Drummond was considered even riskier. As of right now I bet more than half of all the GM would have picked Drummond 2^nd over Beal in hindsight. Charlotte would be better with Beal(w/Kemba) or Drummond(w/Zeller or Mullens). They like Lillard to but knew that would’t work out. 

I have concerns over the pick but since his missed games he has been really good. Plus the 2 games before that he was fine. 

It’s not like they spent a top 10 pick on Austin Rivers.

 

 

 

  

 

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

 I never thought Waiters should have gone in the the top ten at all. I debated with you or Mr 19759, I forget his name. Because he pulled out of the combine and rumors of him getting a promiss sky rocketted him in the draft. I dont hate Waiters, but he is a sixth man coming off the bench even in college. 

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

 I never thought Waiters should have gone in the the top ten at all. I debated with you or Mr 19759, I forget his name. Because he pulled out of the combine and rumors of him getting a promiss sky rocketted him in the draft. I dont hate Waiters, but he is a sixth man coming off the bench even in college. 

[JordoParticipant]

They could have had any combonation of Kyrie Klay Thompson, Kahwi Leonard, Harrison Barnes, Drummond, Noel,or  Oladipo but now they got a inefficient SG and a undersized PF, with wieght issues…

[JordoParticipant]

They could have had any combonation of Kyrie Klay Thompson, Kahwi Leonard, Harrison Barnes, Drummond, Noel,or  Oladipo but now they got a inefficient SG and a undersized PF, with wieght issues…

[theballerwayParticipant]

…..

That whole hindsight arguement again but Waiters played better than Barnes last year on a poorer team with much more responsibilty. Irving was and still is their best shooter I assume the theory was get a combo who can handle the ball while Irving runs of screens in cerain lineups/situations. Also TT is avg- 11.4 pts /9.4 rbs compared to the much loved JV avg 9pts and 7.8 rebs per game . Not the biggest differencve but obviously until JV gets hius numbers up I dont see much regret here.blah blah blah….

This trade isnt for on him being a poor player it seem like its a case of him not getting along with the ‘star’.

http://tracking.si.com/2013/11/27/dion-waiters-cavs-shopping/

‘Irving called the meeting after the game, and every player spoke. When Waiters was given the floor, he criticized Thompson and Irving, accusing them of playing “buddy ball” and often refusing to pass to him. Thompson took umbrage with Waiters’ words and went back at him verbally. The two confronted each other, but teammates intervened before it could escalate into a fight.

However, Waiters and Irving are not close. Waiters believes the Cavaliers have a double standard when it comes to Irving, sources said. Waiters feels that while Irving is allowed to get away with loafing defensively, making turnovers and taking bad shots, he is taken out of games for such things. Waiters has shared his views with Brown and Grant’

————–

I remember Delonte West calling out Mike Brown for not getting on Lebron for bad defense but being critical of all the other players. Seems like this is prt 2. Except Irving is no Lebron. Basically upset the star and your gone. Soon you run out fof people to blame . Saying this I understand the Cavs are not trying to let loose Kyrie who was also a big part of Byron Scotts departure.

[theballerwayParticipant]

…..

That whole hindsight arguement again but Waiters played better than Barnes last year on a poorer team with much more responsibilty. Irving was and still is their best shooter I assume the theory was get a combo who can handle the ball while Irving runs of screens in cerain lineups/situations. Also TT is avg- 11.4 pts /9.4 rbs compared to the much loved JV avg 9pts and 7.8 rebs per game . Not the biggest differencve but obviously until JV gets hius numbers up I dont see much regret here.blah blah blah….

This trade isnt for on him being a poor player it seem like its a case of him not getting along with the ‘star’.

http://tracking.si.com/2013/11/27/dion-waiters-cavs-shopping/

‘Irving called the meeting after the game, and every player spoke. When Waiters was given the floor, he criticized Thompson and Irving, accusing them of playing “buddy ball” and often refusing to pass to him. Thompson took umbrage with Waiters’ words and went back at him verbally. The two confronted each other, but teammates intervened before it could escalate into a fight.

However, Waiters and Irving are not close. Waiters believes the Cavaliers have a double standard when it comes to Irving, sources said. Waiters feels that while Irving is allowed to get away with loafing defensively, making turnovers and taking bad shots, he is taken out of games for such things. Waiters has shared his views with Brown and Grant’

————–

I remember Delonte West calling out Mike Brown for not getting on Lebron for bad defense but being critical of all the other players. Seems like this is prt 2. Except Irving is no Lebron. Basically upset the star and your gone. Soon you run out fof people to blame . Saying this I understand the Cavs are not trying to let loose Kyrie who was also a big part of Byron Scotts departure.

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

I’m not surprise Mike Brown is a coach without a backbone. It’s obvious players walk all over him especially star players. He doesnt even look the part of a head coach to me.

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

I’m not surprise Mike Brown is a coach without a backbone. It’s obvious players walk all over him especially star players. He doesnt even look the part of a head coach to me.

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

I thought he would have somewhat of a backbone this time around. He joked about defense (i.e KI not playing any last year) with Kyrie over the summer. 

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

I thought he would have somewhat of a backbone this time around. He joked about defense (i.e KI not playing any last year) with Kyrie over the summer. 

[HitsterParticipant]

Waiters has been a nice prospect for them but if he has issues with his team mates then I can understand them shopping him. Also the fact that they did not take Victor Oladipo at 1 this year now comes back to look a stupid decision and to pass on Drummond last year then sign Bynum and draft Bennett also looks strange.

If they think they could get Evan Turner or Luol Deng in a straight swap they are being very hopeful but with them owning several more future draft picks they can probably fo a deal to get a quality guy in.

[HitsterParticipant]

Waiters has been a nice prospect for them but if he has issues with his team mates then I can understand them shopping him. Also the fact that they did not take Victor Oladipo at 1 this year now comes back to look a stupid decision and to pass on Drummond last year then sign Bynum and draft Bennett also looks strange.

If they think they could get Evan Turner or Luol Deng in a straight swap they are being very hopeful but with them owning several more future draft picks they can probably fo a deal to get a quality guy in.

[iguapops420Participant]

 Mie Brown is a stars coach. I also remember Shaq recalling Delonte West stepping up saying " F that. We should EVERYONE  responsible!" And MB apparently simply saying " I now Delonte ut just let it go." Waiters is clearly best suited in a sixth man type role as a ball dominant all-around gino/harden/crawford type, but he deserves playing time for that Cavs team. I went to the Bobcats opening night vs. Cavs and Waiters WAS in fact pulled with a short night for a couple bad shots/decisions, but Irving all game long missed getting the ball to Bynum who had his man SEALED UNDER THE RIM, while Thompson was getting it in the mid post trying turn-arounds over and over with little success. I kept telling my wife they needed to get the ball to Bynum if the expected easy post points because he was simply too big for the cats defense. Ultimately Kyrie overdribbled, played tons of Iverson iso ball, and looked away from his shooters and WAS in fact only looking for TT. Shame, they had some decent potential this year. 

I actually thought the team ran much more smooth when Jack ran the offense instead of Kyrie. 

As for Waiters, ship him out, if a player doesn’t want to be there and is doing nothing but hindering the development of other young guys, then he has no business being there. Send him out with Clark,Zeller, and Gee for Deng. Move CJ to the 2 and you’ve suddenly got a decent team with nice balance.

Bynum/Varejao/Sims

TT/Bennett

Deng

CJ/Karasev

Kyrie/Jack

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[iguapops420Participant]

 Mie Brown is a stars coach. I also remember Shaq recalling Delonte West stepping up saying " F that. We should EVERYONE  responsible!" And MB apparently simply saying " I now Delonte ut just let it go." Waiters is clearly best suited in a sixth man type role as a ball dominant all-around gino/harden/crawford type, but he deserves playing time for that Cavs team. I went to the Bobcats opening night vs. Cavs and Waiters WAS in fact pulled with a short night for a couple bad shots/decisions, but Irving all game long missed getting the ball to Bynum who had his man SEALED UNDER THE RIM, while Thompson was getting it in the mid post trying turn-arounds over and over with little success. I kept telling my wife they needed to get the ball to Bynum if the expected easy post points because he was simply too big for the cats defense. Ultimately Kyrie overdribbled, played tons of Iverson iso ball, and looked away from his shooters and WAS in fact only looking for TT. Shame, they had some decent potential this year. 

I actually thought the team ran much more smooth when Jack ran the offense instead of Kyrie. 

As for Waiters, ship him out, if a player doesn’t want to be there and is doing nothing but hindering the development of other young guys, then he has no business being there. Send him out with Clark,Zeller, and Gee for Deng. Move CJ to the 2 and you’ve suddenly got a decent team with nice balance.

Bynum/Varejao/Sims

TT/Bennett

Deng

CJ/Karasev

Kyrie/Jack

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chrispaulwallParticipant]

 worst drafting team in the league. theyre screwing up putting talent around kyrie the same way they did with lebron.

[Sewok15Participant]

The difference being the only year the Cavs were drafting in the lottery was the year after they drafted LeBron and got Luke Jackson with the 10th overall pick. That draft didn’t have great depth and they had the right idea to put a shooter that could space the floor next to LBJ but Jackson clearly didn’t pan out. They could have had Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, Jameer Nelson or Kevin Martin.

They surely could have made some better picks in hindsight but you could say the same for every team in the league…but what they have been doing lately with these surprising lottery picks has certainly been questionable to say the least.

[Sewok15Participant]

The difference being the only year the Cavs were drafting in the lottery was the year after they drafted LeBron and got Luke Jackson with the 10th overall pick. That draft didn’t have great depth and they had the right idea to put a shooter that could space the floor next to LBJ but Jackson clearly didn’t pan out. They could have had Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, Jameer Nelson or Kevin Martin.

They surely could have made some better picks in hindsight but you could say the same for every team in the league…but what they have been doing lately with these surprising lottery picks has certainly been questionable to say the least.

[chrispaulwallParticipant]

 worst drafting team in the league. theyre screwing up putting talent around kyrie the same way they did with lebron.

[Ghost01Participant]

 Hindsight is 20/20, but the Cavs last 3 picks were all suspect AT THE TIME they occurred. With Valuncianus, Barnes, and Oladipo, the Cavs would have a fantastic young core around Irving and a much better shot at LBJ. 

[Ghost01Participant]

 Hindsight is 20/20, but the Cavs last 3 picks were all suspect AT THE TIME they occurred. With Valuncianus, Barnes, and Oladipo, the Cavs would have a fantastic young core around Irving and a much better shot at LBJ. 

[surveParticipant]

"I have never seen this much hostility over a guy that who should have gone 6th instead of 4th."

 

 Its not the point of 2 draft spots but that the Cavs blew it at #4. Thats all that matters. Most people thought they would grab Barnes. It almost seemed like the stars aligned perfectly for it to happen. If not Barnes I could see Drummond. But both slipped. As for Waiters going 6th instead of 4th….I didnt rank him that high. He had character issues and I just saw a volume scorer. He’d be great as a 3rd guard but I valued other players higher than him. Like Ross or Lamb. Not that any of them were worthy of a 4 spot…but I didnt think Waiters was either.

 

 "That whole hindsight arguement again but Waiters played better than Barnes last year on a poorer team with much more responsibilty."

 

 I dont put much stock on who is having a better year but how they play the game with the pieces around them. Barnes is a better player IMO. He is just not a one-on-one player which people seem to get stuck on. He played in a system where Roy Williams just didnt use him effectively. He refused to play other shooters beside him like Bullock or Hairston, making him the primary perimeter threat and teams keyed in on that. Also….UNC LIVED on the offensive glass so the lane was always clogged and it made it easy to collapse on Barnes after 2 dribbles. Not sure how you say Waiters had more responsibility…or that he outplayed Barnes to the point to where he clearly deserved to be picked over him.

 

 The Cavs last lottery picks have had everybody saying "oooooh", "what?", "get outta here" first with Thompson, then with Waiters (and his draft guarantee), then with Bennett. Its not they they are bad players, its that they went the risky route each time around. Most people do not think any of those 3 picks were worthy of their spots.

[surveParticipant]

"I have never seen this much hostility over a guy that who should have gone 6th instead of 4th."

 

 Its not the point of 2 draft spots but that the Cavs blew it at #4. Thats all that matters. Most people thought they would grab Barnes. It almost seemed like the stars aligned perfectly for it to happen. If not Barnes I could see Drummond. But both slipped. As for Waiters going 6th instead of 4th….I didnt rank him that high. He had character issues and I just saw a volume scorer. He’d be great as a 3rd guard but I valued other players higher than him. Like Ross or Lamb. Not that any of them were worthy of a 4 spot…but I didnt think Waiters was either.

 

 "That whole hindsight arguement again but Waiters played better than Barnes last year on a poorer team with much more responsibilty."

 

 I dont put much stock on who is having a better year but how they play the game with the pieces around them. Barnes is a better player IMO. He is just not a one-on-one player which people seem to get stuck on. He played in a system where Roy Williams just didnt use him effectively. He refused to play other shooters beside him like Bullock or Hairston, making him the primary perimeter threat and teams keyed in on that. Also….UNC LIVED on the offensive glass so the lane was always clogged and it made it easy to collapse on Barnes after 2 dribbles. Not sure how you say Waiters had more responsibility…or that he outplayed Barnes to the point to where he clearly deserved to be picked over him.

 

 The Cavs last lottery picks have had everybody saying "oooooh", "what?", "get outta here" first with Thompson, then with Waiters (and his draft guarantee), then with Bennett. Its not they they are bad players, its that they went the risky route each time around. Most people do not think any of those 3 picks were worthy of their spots.

[The Scare Crow RisesParticipant]

I believe in Evan Turner, I think 76es management will make him their team Captain going forward…

Waiters is a good young scorer on a team that is simply a bad fit, send him to the Charlotte Bobcats and he’d average 20ppg, albeit on a bad % with a middling Team…

[The Scare Crow RisesParticipant]

I believe in Evan Turner, I think 76es management will make him their team Captain going forward…

Waiters is a good young scorer on a team that is simply a bad fit, send him to the Charlotte Bobcats and he’d average 20ppg, albeit on a bad % with a middling Team…

[HitsterParticipant]

Thinking about possible good locations foe Waiters, there are relatively few teams that jump out as needing him as a starting SG. If he is viewed as a good 6th man then teams won’t give up too much for him, even a team like Boston in rebuild probably have Bradley and Rondo as their first choice backcourt so would not offer up too much for him.

A team that could perhaps really make use of Waiters long term is the Spurs as Manu isn’t getting younger and you could bet that Waiters would learn defence under Coach Poppovich. But the Spurs would probably only offer up late first round picks for him.

 

[HitsterParticipant]

Thinking about possible good locations foe Waiters, there are relatively few teams that jump out as needing him as a starting SG. If he is viewed as a good 6th man then teams won’t give up too much for him, even a team like Boston in rebuild probably have Bradley and Rondo as their first choice backcourt so would not offer up too much for him.

A team that could perhaps really make use of Waiters long term is the Spurs as Manu isn’t getting younger and you could bet that Waiters would learn defence under Coach Poppovich. But the Spurs would probably only offer up late first round picks for him.

 

[Author]

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