[GrandmamaParticipant]

 George Hill for Kawhi Leonard….talk about whoops

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Paul George and Kawhi would make a tough duo.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Paul George and Kawhi would make a tough duo.

[FutureNBAGMParticipant]

Yeah, great for the Spurs! Ive been hearing about how the Pacers have been wanting to upgrade their point guard spot for MONTHS now.

[FutureNBAGMParticipant]

Yeah, great for the Spurs! Ive been hearing about how the Pacers have been wanting to upgrade their point guard spot for MONTHS now.

[SmooveKRYPTParticipant]

 Not sure Kawhi would’ve developed the same way in Indiana. Easy to say in hindsight it was terrible, but that Spurs system and their coaching/player development staff brings out the best in players. George Hill looked much better than what he’s shown since he got to Indy.

[SmooveKRYPTParticipant]

 Not sure Kawhi would’ve developed the same way in Indiana. Easy to say in hindsight it was terrible, but that Spurs system and their coaching/player development staff brings out the best in players. George Hill looked much better than what he’s shown since he got to Indy.

[adumParticipant]

 Great point.

Sometimes talent alone won’t lead to success coaching rosters and even management all play their parts.

 

[adumParticipant]

 Great point.

Sometimes talent alone won’t lead to success coaching rosters and even management all play their parts.

 

[Kinguy11Participant]

I agree. The Spurs made Leonard. He wouldn’t be the same player if the Pacers kept him.

[Kinguy11Participant]

I agree. The Spurs made Leonard. He wouldn’t be the same player if the Pacers kept him.

[220Participant]

 Yeah Kawhi wouldn’t have been more than 6th man for a while since the Pacers had Paul George and Danny Granger starting on the wings at that time.

[220Participant]

 Yeah Kawhi wouldn’t have been more than 6th man for a while since the Pacers had Paul George and Danny Granger starting on the wings at that time.

[LeFlopJAMESParticipant]

In S.Ant system players know what to do on the court, rarely instinct or improvisation came out… all the players learn to do the right thing , so when you are a gear in a machine sometimes people ( who see you often do the right thing ) think you are a good player.

[LeFlopJAMESParticipant]

In S.Ant system players know what to do on the court, rarely instinct or improvisation came out… all the players learn to do the right thing , so when you are a gear in a machine sometimes people ( who see you often do the right thing ) think you are a good player.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 But imagine if the Pacers kept Kawhi.  Their defense would be even more insane.  PG and Kawhi on the wings would be a deadly and super versatile defensive combo.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 But imagine if the Pacers kept Kawhi.  Their defense would be even more insane.  PG and Kawhi on the wings would be a deadly and super versatile defensive combo.

[SixerBloodParticipant]

 Brett Brown coach of the Sixers. I’m pretty positive he had "something" to do with this great team! He got them Patty Mills hopefully he can translate players into wins in Philly.

[SixerBloodParticipant]

 Brett Brown coach of the Sixers. I’m pretty positive he had "something" to do with this great team! He got them Patty Mills hopefully he can translate players into wins in Philly.

[DaGuywhodidurmaParticipant]

 Why does everyone just assume that Indiana would have drafted Leonard?  People seem to forget that the Spurs condition for doing this deal was that the prospect they liked would still be on the board or else it was "deal off". There is no telling who the pacers would have selected had they kept the pick. 

[DaGuywhodidurmaParticipant]

 Why does everyone just assume that Indiana would have drafted Leonard?  People seem to forget that the Spurs condition for doing this deal was that the prospect they liked would still be on the board or else it was "deal off". There is no telling who the pacers would have selected had they kept the pick. 

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 There are 13 other picks in that draft with the teams making a possible mistake for not taking Leonard, so while the Pacers didn’t do as well as the Spurs with the trade they did get more than teams like Minnesota, pick 2 Williams, and Washington, 6 Vesely, and Houston, 14 and one of the M Morris players.

Granger, Dunleavy, George, Stephenson, the Pacers probably thought they had enough players for that position.  A combo-guard to help Collison seemed like the right move for Indiana at the time.

Another thing the Pacers must have thought about, they have struggled to sign or to keep some players and with Hill being from Indianapolis they probably thought he was a good fit for the team and would stay around.

Of course the Pacers probably could have advanced to the finals by getting past the Heat by using Leonard against LeBron which would allow George to use his energy more on the offensive end of the court.  The Pacers could have kept Collison and used him and Stephenson at point guard.  

For an idea of how playing with Duncan and Ginobili and the Spurs helps a player, if you ignore G Hill’s rookie season FG% it means his best years for shooting were with the Spurs, 48% and 45%.  In his 2nd and 3rd NBA seasons, as a Spur, he also had his best three-point percentages too.

So Leonard is better than Hill, Spurs won the trade, Spurs got a Finals MVP and Pacers got a starter/6th Man type of player, but Pacers didn’t have a disaster on their end of the trade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 There are 13 other picks in that draft with the teams making a possible mistake for not taking Leonard, so while the Pacers didn’t do as well as the Spurs with the trade they did get more than teams like Minnesota, pick 2 Williams, and Washington, 6 Vesely, and Houston, 14 and one of the M Morris players.

Granger, Dunleavy, George, Stephenson, the Pacers probably thought they had enough players for that position.  A combo-guard to help Collison seemed like the right move for Indiana at the time.

Another thing the Pacers must have thought about, they have struggled to sign or to keep some players and with Hill being from Indianapolis they probably thought he was a good fit for the team and would stay around.

Of course the Pacers probably could have advanced to the finals by getting past the Heat by using Leonard against LeBron which would allow George to use his energy more on the offensive end of the court.  The Pacers could have kept Collison and used him and Stephenson at point guard.  

For an idea of how playing with Duncan and Ginobili and the Spurs helps a player, if you ignore G Hill’s rookie season FG% it means his best years for shooting were with the Spurs, 48% and 45%.  In his 2nd and 3rd NBA seasons, as a Spur, he also had his best three-point percentages too.

So Leonard is better than Hill, Spurs won the trade, Spurs got a Finals MVP and Pacers got a starter/6th Man type of player, but Pacers didn’t have a disaster on their end of the trade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jester87Participant]

@daguywhodidurma

The Pacers liked Kawhi a lot. Bird has said they were thinking about drafting him, they had him 5th on their board but they didn’t think he would’ve been available when they drafted. But they drafted George the season before and they already had Granger and they needed an upgrade at the point guard, so they agreed.

I still think the Spurs played such a big part on his development, no matter what people (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/6/11/5799794/kawhi-leonard-awesome-spurs-hands-credit-nba-finals-2014) say. Of course he deserves a lot of credit too, without talent, work ethic and a positive attitude the Spurs’ players development system wouldn’t have been enough. But this guy came into the league as a raw athletic power forward who couldn’t shoot and without a perimeter game. The Spurs had a chance to bring him in slowly, working on his jumper and using him during his first season mostly as a defensive stopper, asking him only to shoot corner 3s (and he didn’t take many of them). He could do that because there were better players doing much of the job on offense. Once he got confident shooting corner 3s he started taking more of them by his second season. Last year he was still mostly a corner shooter, with his percentages being average or below average from the other spots behind the arc. But he had learned how to attack closeouts, going to the rim or with some pull up jumpers after a dribble or two and showed some post up game against smaller defenders. This year he has become a more consistent shooter from the wing and from the top of the key and has improved his mid range game (he has a terrific floater). He’s added something each year, and has had the chance to get comfortable with each of his new skills because he didn’t have to carry too big of a burden from the start. He wouldn’t have been able to do the same if he went to, say, Charlotte.

[Jester87Participant]

@daguywhodidurma

The Pacers liked Kawhi a lot. Bird has said they were thinking about drafting him, they had him 5th on their board but they didn’t think he would’ve been available when they drafted. But they drafted George the season before and they already had Granger and they needed an upgrade at the point guard, so they agreed.

I still think the Spurs played such a big part on his development, no matter what people (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/6/11/5799794/kawhi-leonard-awesome-spurs-hands-credit-nba-finals-2014) say. Of course he deserves a lot of credit too, without talent, work ethic and a positive attitude the Spurs’ players development system wouldn’t have been enough. But this guy came into the league as a raw athletic power forward who couldn’t shoot and without a perimeter game. The Spurs had a chance to bring him in slowly, working on his jumper and using him during his first season mostly as a defensive stopper, asking him only to shoot corner 3s (and he didn’t take many of them). He could do that because there were better players doing much of the job on offense. Once he got confident shooting corner 3s he started taking more of them by his second season. Last year he was still mostly a corner shooter, with his percentages being average or below average from the other spots behind the arc. But he had learned how to attack closeouts, going to the rim or with some pull up jumpers after a dribble or two and showed some post up game against smaller defenders. This year he has become a more consistent shooter from the wing and from the top of the key and has improved his mid range game (he has a terrific floater). He’s added something each year, and has had the chance to get comfortable with each of his new skills because he didn’t have to carry too big of a burden from the start. He wouldn’t have been able to do the same if he went to, say, Charlotte.

[Author]

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