[tuck243Participant]

I truly like Jeremy Lin… I think the story is amazing BUT I think its going over board now that everyone is saying he’s better than Melo…  Come on I think its about time to give Mikey his credit… He made Nash into a HOF and increased EVERY PG that come into his system stats…  Last year with Billups Melo numbers increased as well, he also put up better percentages…  Lin is good in a inflated system BUT he’s no where near Melo…  Point Blank…  9 years killing cats compared to 7 games versus under .500 teams or a Lakers team that haven’t stop a PG since Wilt Chamberlain played…  Is Lin good???  Yes… Could he even become Great??? Yes…  Is he better than Melo???  Fawk NO!!!  I know its the media but damn

[Steven]

 hell no im not giving dantoni any credit, he had 2 super stars and he couldnt win with them, yes he had a terrible pg but still the knicks werent even in ball games, and he doesnt know how to handle melo, screw that he gets no credit from  a huge knicks fan over here. 

[thparadoxParticipant]

 D’Antoni was playing Shumpert and Toney Douglas as his point guards for this long… why exactly should he get credit for taking a million years to try out an actual point guard.

[Ghost01Participant]

 I thuroughly agree its complete foolishness to say Lin > Melo. However, lets not overstate Melo’s success. This is a guy with two playoff series wins in 9 years and has not added anything to his game beyond scoring and really isn’t even a top 10 player in the league anymore. 

[tuck243Participant]

But that system dictates a Pick n Pop PG in order for it to work…  I think Melo playing Point Forward was the best option… Which didn’t work… I don’t agree with his system becuz it doesn’t win Championships, but it does allow PG to become Great…  Give him that… 

[aamir543Participant]

D’Antoni’s system is genius, and it gives a point guard complete freedom, and it fits Lin’s skill set perfectly.

As for Lin and Melo, Melo is lightyears ahead of Lin, whoever trys to start saying Lin is better than this and that, and says he should make the All-Star game are bandwagoners.

Lin deserves credit, he is playing well with confidence(maybe too much, I swear he held that ball till 3 seconds left yesterday, lol) and he has great court vision.

Outside of D’Antoni’s system, Lin is not nearly as good as what we’ve seen, but they have each found their perfect match, and I agree, D’Antoni has a great system, and now he has players that work into that system like he did in Phoniex. Now Melo just needs to work his way into that system without disrupting the flow of the offense, but this New York team has the potential to do great things if Lin continues to run the offense the way he has.

And today his production is more indicitive of what we’ll see. He was very efficient, and if he can settle into somthing like this, where he distributes more than looking for his own, the Knicks are in a cery good situation, cause he scored 10 on 6 shots, and had 13 assists, but in just 26 minutes. I love the way he is playing, he is for real, but let’s not get carried away.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 No I think he was talking about giving Mike D’Antoni credit for turning Lin into what he is.  And he’s right, Lin didn’t do this by himself.  There was a reason Lin was undrafted and got cut from every team except the Knicks.  Mike D’Antoni is the reason he’s flourishing right now because his system is perfect for Lin and that’s one of the reasons New York signed him in the first place.  They didn’t know he was gonna do this, but they did know atleast he was gonna be great running the system if anything in practice.  When Davis was allowed to practice and they noticed Jeremy Lin was owning him during practices they finally decided to give him extended playing time and the rest is history.

But Lin’s also been a turnover machine and that’s enough more most coaches to pull you out of the game and never get to see you play through your mistakes and hit game winning shots.  D’Antoni knows a PG when he sees one so Lin got his chance.  D’Antoni does deserve some props for making this happen.

[tuck243Participant]

I agree to a certain extent… The same could be said about D. Wade without Shaq or LeBron… And Chris Paul…  I think he had a lot of set backs with his maturity sometimes but he still a Top 10 player when healthy…  Or with a decent PG…  I don’t think he will disrupt the offense at all…  I think they will be scary good…  If last year is an indicator of how productive they where when Billups, Melo, and Amare was on the court together…  Now you have Lin who is dishing it just as well if not better than Billups with Chandler???  The Knicks sucked so bad this year no where to go but up…

[Michael.S.Participant]

Nash would have been a great player with or without Dantoni, he is now without him and he is 38!!! Dantoni doesn;t play the games, it’s all the players.

[PrecociousNeophyteParticipant]

 All the hype Lin is getting is getting really annoying. All of these fake bandwagon fans coming out of the woodwork needs to stop.

[tuck243Participant]

That’s because he’s still running that same system… LOL… 

[Michael.S.Participant]

When Dantoni goes on the court and gets 20pts and 10asts then you can give him the credit.

[aamir543Participant]

Jammin Lemon, Phoniex still runs D’Antoni’s system, and remember Nash went from not even being wanted by mark Cuban to being a two time All-Star after going to D’Antoni.

[tuck243Participant]

Don’t tell him anything… Clearly he’s cleary a "In the moment" fan…  When he’s scores 20 and dish out 10 assists huh??? So Phil had nothing to do with Kobe winning 5 championships???  The coach matter…  The system is even more important…  Stop it 5…

[Michael.S.Participant]

George Feeney would have won championships if he had Shaq and Kobe.

[aamir543Participant]

Even though it’s annoying that ESPN talks about Lin every 5 minutes, some of the insight the guys provide is good. Like what I was reading in a JA Adande article earlier today, where Steve Kerr was saying how 75% of the players in NBA need a system and a coah that believes in them to be successfull. There are probably ten Lin’s sitting out there with no opportunity, but when they do get the opportunity they drop the ball. Lin has capitilized on his opportunity, but the coach gets credit for having faith in him, and for the system that enables Lin yo do what he has done.

Phil’s system may have prevented Kobe or MJ from averaging 40 points a game, but it allowed them to win 11 tittles combined. Phil got personel that fit his philosophy, and they Jerry Krause did a great job at that.

An example is how the Bulls went from perenial 60 win team pre-Baseball athletic MJ, to 72 wins after MJ’s sabatical when he was in the post more. One of the key differences was that they had Ron Harper instead of BJArmstrong. They let BJ go in the expansion draft, because Phil wanted to run a defensive system, and for that he needed a bigger guard alonside MJ.

And Greg Pop, they used to be a lock down D team. Why? Because that style of play fit the palyers they had. Now they have offensive guys, so they run more and shoot more threes.

So the coaches ability to design a successfull gameplan that his players can execute successfully is crucial to being a good team in this league.

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

@thparadox: Would you have tried Lin at the very beginning? Might I remind you that Lin was cut from 2 other NBA teams, and was just barely signed to a 10-day contract. He was likely to be cut yet again from the Knicks if it wasn’t for his 25 point, 7 assist outburst against New Jersey almost 2 weeks ago. That’s not a very good track record.

D’antoni said it himself, this was unprecedented. No one had any idea this would happen, and no one expected it to. No one even knew that Lin was a true point guard. (unless someone watched him in college, but I doubt very many people were at the time) D’antoni was basically doing what management asked him to do, which was find a servicable PG while Davis nurses his injury. What did he do in order to find that servicable PG he went to who he thought or who might have done well. Can you blame him, wouldn’t you have done the same thing if you were in his position? I certainly can’t.

History would tell you to go with the proven player. Problem is, no one at the point is a proven player on the Knicks squad (except for maybe Bibby, but he isn’t worth a roster spot instead he should be on the bench coaching a team) So you go with the closest guy to a proven player. Douglas has had success in the past (look at what he did his rookie year, not bad numbers at all.) Shumpert did okay at Georgia Tech last year, so both those guys are somewhat close to proven. Lin, on the otherhand, was no where close to a proven player. He went undrafted in 2010, was almost cut from 2 teams he barely played a game for, went to an ivy-league school, harvard (hardly noticeable in NBA terms) Again can you blame D’antoni for taking so long to go with Lin? I sure can’t, I would have done the exact same thing. No one saw this coming, not even D’antoni himself.

Many of you could say that D’antoni didn’t have that great of options to try at the point. And you would be right. Many of you could say that D’antoni should go to management and ask for better options at point. Whose to say he hasn’t? There’s a lot of things that go on behind the scenes that we, fans, do not know about. Maybe D’antoni has gone to management about this problem, maybe he hasn’t. Maybe he’s trying to just do the best he can with what he’s got. Wouldn’t we all do the same thing? Don’t discredit someone based on assumptions when you don’t know the whole story. Fact is, D’antoni was forced to try Lin and probably wouldn’t have done so if that wasn’t the case. Would you have done the same thing had Douglas or Shumpert been playing great? Of course you would have. (That is not try Lin and keep going with Douglas or Shumpert had one of them been playing well)

So, yes we should give D’antoni credit for what he has done. He has found his point guard. May have taken him awhile but it would have taken us the exact same amount of time, so you can’t fault him for that. The real test will be when Melo comes back later on this week. Can Lin and Melo co-exist? Can D’antoni control these two players and continue leading the Knicks to wins? He hasn’t had the chance to prove that he can yet, so again don’t discredit someone based on assumptions when you don’t know the whole story. In this case ‘the whole story’ will be what happens in the future. We are about to find out just how much credit D’antoni deserves, but for now he deserves all the credit because he has finally found a point guard that works beautifully in his system. It would have taken all of us the same amount of time, with the same circumstances, so no one can fault him for the long process he took to finally find his point guard.

As for the other comment the creator of this post brought regarding that Lin is better than Melo. Of course he isn’t, but these are Knicks fans. When Shumpert very first started, Knicks fans compared him to D-wade, another outlandish thing to say. What else did you expect? The outlandish remarks about Knicks players riding fantastic streaks had to come some time soon.

[PrecociousNeophyteParticipant]

 @aamir

I do agree that I do like listening to them talk about him sometimes like on NBA Tonight, but when SC is sucking his d&ck 24/7 it get really annoying.

[WeavvvParticipant]

I have to give @tuck some credit for his first post. That is essentially why you have to give D’Antoni credit, because it is due. His system is built around having a PG who can do all these things (ala Steve Nash?). D’Antoni’s system was so efficient in Phoenix because of that, and why it’s working (7 straight games, pretty impressive) now. I’m not really on the Jeremy Lin bandwagon, but I think he and the coach work hand in hand. One without the other, without an equivalent replacement, won’t work. 

What I am most impressed about, from their win tonight, is how even they were. Even if you just browse at their box score, you can see how well rounded a game everybody played. From minutes played (Chandler and Fields getting the most run with 30 min each), to shot selection (Amare only taking 11 FG’s?!; Novak took 11, as well, but 8 of them were from deep, also, Walker 6/9? and Fields 6/8?!).

The only reason it was as close as 15 is because, once again, deep into NY’s bench they have problems. Once Lin comes off the floor, things start to fall apart again.

It’s going to be interesting to see how Melo is able to adjust to all of this. Amare wasn’t much of a concern (IMO), as he’s played in this system, with a PG who could run it, before, and flourished.

[F_DA_POParticipant]

Ray Felton averaged 17 ppg and 9 apg with D’antoni. He has averaged around 10 and 6 since. This is definitely evidence Lin could be a product of a system.

 

Keep in mind both players (Felton and Lin) did this without Carmelo. Imagine how much of a hit Lin will take once Melo is back.

[Jlv2012]

The Knicks are undefeated with Lin.  Carmelo is a chemistry killer.  Case closed.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 @F Da Po

I don’t get what you mean by product of the system.  Like some players put up great stats because of the system they are in sure I get that.  But Lin’s numbers go beyond being a product of a system, and numbers aside he’s 7-0 as a starter.  You don’t hit game winning 3’s because of the system you’re in.  

I think Jeremy Lin has proven that he was going to make it in the league regardless.  He might not of made this big of  a splash but it’s unique because it’s in the middle of the season.  

For instance I could easily envision Jeremy Lin of not getting his chance this year and being a free agent a team like the Jazz would pick him up.  I could see Lin playing great and really impressing coaches in practice and after an injury to Devin Harris, here comes Lin and the next thing you know he’s Utah’s starting PG and putting up nice numbers.  It wouldn’t be as big a splash it is now because the circumstances in New York being the media capital of the world and their beloved Knicks getting embarressed night after night with all their superstars, then the stars get hurt, D’Antoni is ready to get fired, and the next thing you know this Asian dude is pouring in 30 points and hit game winning 3’s.  It’s just insane what is going on right now.  I hate the Knicks but how can a sports fan not love this in some way or another?

But it should be obvious by now that Lin was going to make it one way or another.

And for the first time since it started I called Shennanigans on this Linsanity stuff when I was looking at the box score on nba.com for the Knicks game and you now how they have the vidoe clips of highlights from the game?  Well every single one of them were Lin clips and even worse they were just basic PNR plays complete with the announcers screaming, "LIN DOES IT AGAIN!"  What did he do again execute the most fundamental play in basketball?  That’s when I thought this is getting out of hand it’s becoming a little comical can’t we just let this kid ball.

On a side note I can’t wait til the next Sixers-Knicks game to get a chance to see Jrue to put his hands on Lin, that’s gonna be a great matchup.

[Future_Scout]

on point^. he’s been allowed to handle the ball since day one…and he handled it perfect. and like dantoni said, he’s been "riding lin". lin’s usg% (the amount he handles the ball while in the floor) is at 30% which is right on par with the elites in the nba. you have to be skilled to excel.

[NYK2010Participant]

Comparing Lin to Mello makes no sense for a lot of reasons.

PG and SF, 8 plus years in the league to 7 games really.

Lin had a nice 1st half a lot of assists and just 1 turnover, 3rd qtr was sloppy w/to’s but a 20 plus pt. lead may have had something to do w/ that too.

Still some idiots are hating on him saying he only proved he’s not a D-leaguer.  Also this talk about no tape on him really the same can be said about rookies in the league and some other players too.

It works both ways teams haven’t had tape on him but the Knicks haven’t really had many practices with him n the starters becaz of the schedule.  He has faced some talented Pg’s in DWill, Wall, Calderon, Rubio and Harris.

Anyway for the team 7 in a row is a big deal for esp. since they were 7 games under .500 w/Mello hurt and Amare out a week.

It might not be against the top teams but a win is a win and the Twolves n Jazz aren’t garbage teams and obviously the Lakers are pretty good.

Don’t forget before the 1st win against the Nets they lost 2 games in the last minute by 5 pts total to the Bulls and Celtics.  The role players Fields, Shumpert, Jeffries are playing really well and the team is clicking together.

Based on what some have said that he scored 30 on Kemba Walker in college and outplayed John Wall in the summer league he’s had the ability but maybe wasn’t given a shot by anyone.  Houston’s GM already admitted to making a mistake, Golden State blew it maybe it was the GM who knows but Mark Jackson saying he didn’t see him play really come on.

[NYK2010Participant]

Felton did average 17 and 9 but the Knicks were running a lot more kind of like the Suns in the regular season with Amare and Nash back when they were a great duo.  Gallo and Wilson at the forwards and Amare at Center.  Thats a better offensive lineup along with Douglas and Shawne Williams shooting 3’s off the bench.  The team had a lot more time to gel and obviously a normal training camp and no crazy schedule of games.

This team the last 7 games has Bill Walker at SF, Chandler at Center and they run a lot less.  Look at the scores they were a lot higher last year and the team was just 2 games over .500.  Also Felton shot 42% and Lin is shooting 50% this month.

[PabloFiascoParticipant]

Give D’Antoni props for what???? His offense doesn’t make every PG look good I.E. every PG who played before Lin this season.

Yea Melo’s numbers went up last season because he shot more. The Knicks were a ripped team depending on him he better had put up big numbers

D’Anroni is just riding the wave and happy he found a PG with the ability to play the game the way his offense is designed. Not props worthy. Jeremy Lin gets all the props because he’s the one doin the work. Respect the man

[mcbaileyParticipant]

Lin is playing well and is thriving under a system that D’Antoni designed. Why can’t both get props? 

 

Also, D’Antoni didn’t make Toney Douglas and Iman Shumpert into viable point guards because they don’t have the necessary skills. They can’t pick and roll to save their lives. It’s unfair to say that D’Antoni doesn’t deserve props because he didn’t make those two look like point guards. If you want a tiger, you can’t paint stripes on a tabby cat.

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 It is crazy to say that Lin is better than Melo. I’m on the bandwagon and even I wouldn’t say that. Melo is a very good scorer and much harder to replace than a point guard. But . . . 

If the Knicks could only have one of them for Friday’s game against the Hornets, I’d take Lin and chalk up the W. He makes the system run better and he unleashes the talents of Field, Chandler, Novak and, eventually, Amare. Melo seems to overshadow those guys and somehow diminish them. 

I’d also take Lin and the ability to sign another max contract guy instead of Melo any day of the week.

And the Knicks get very little props for this because they waited way too long to start that guy. They even sent him down to the D-League and D’Antonio said we can do that because he doesn’t really fit into our plans. The guy got a 28 point tripple double. Keep in mind that he played a lot of D-League last year as well. He was kind of killing it there. The Knicks should have been playing him over Bibby from Day one.

 

http://www.nba.com/dleague/news/the_hidden_side_jeremy_lin_2012_02_15.html

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

??? D’antoni should think to THANK lin who saved his job.

This Lin is undoubltly fantastic, he’s a solution to unemployment…

[surveParticipant]

 cant give D’Antoni any credit until he proves he can mesh talent and provide a philosphy that produces wins with ALL of his players on the court at the same time.  D’Antoni played Lin because he had nowhere else to turn, now he will unfairly receive credit when he didnt know Lin would be that good.  I’ve seen it many times before where some coaches can have some success (not championships) in college and pros with lesser talent….but when they get an abundance of talent they dont know what to do or how to make it work.  When Melo returns, if they continue to win, he will definitely deserve credit, but right now, he is just about the luckiest mofo out there.

[NYK2010Participant]

D’antoni gets too much credit when they win and too much blame when they lost.

Without a PG its hard for a lot of teams to win he ran out of choices he definitely should’ve had Lin as a backup at least.  Especially since Bibby has shown he’s lost a lot and Douglas, Shumpert aren’t true PG’s. 

[PabloFiascoParticipant]

We all knew Douglas and Shumpert weren’t true PGs so why did D’Antoni hold onto Toney and why did they draft Iman Shumpert with their first pick?

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 Tony Douglas showed some break out games as a rookie and Shumpert was best athlete (by a long shot) availble when they drafted. There was no reason to question either of those moves. Billups hadn’t been waived when Shumpert was drafted either. 

Now D’Antonio has no excuse for not playing Lin until he did. And he also has no excuse for not knowing the kid’s name for the first week of practice. 

[aamir543Participant]

^Apparently Lin says that it was Melo in the Jersey game that told D’Antoni to put him in.

[Author]

Posts