[Rdf1212Participant]

 Everyone is piling on Lebron these days but I think the blame should be elsewhere for a couple reasons.

 

1. Cavaliers commitment – There is tons of talk about if Lebron is committed to the Cavs but why isn’t there more talk on why they aren’t committed to him? He’s the best player in the world and the only reason the Cavs have EVER been relevant. The Cavs were terrible before he got to the league when he left and would be terrible again if he left again. Why wouldn’t they go all in and trade the BKLN pick to give themselves the best chance to win now? Since historically they haven’t proven to be a successful franchise without him. 

2. Lebron Holding the Team Hostage – There is a lot of talk about Lebron signing the deals he has have held the team hostage but i would argue it has helped much more than if he locked in. Without these 1+1 deals Dan Gilbert wouldn’t have spent the money he has. That extra leverage Lebron has allowed him to ensure Gilbert spends as much as possible to bolster the team which in turn helps the Cavs.

I hear a lot of conversation that Lebron is self serving but what I don’t hear is that Gilbert is the same way. The idea that keeping the BKLN pick is “protecting his investment” is ridiculous. The second Lebron leaves that franchise loses half its value.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Robb_CParticipant]

Dan Gilbert is preparing for the likely case that LeBron does leave, Yes the Cavs value does drop if Lebron leaves but Gilbert is setting himself up for less of an impact.. Gilbert and the FO are in the prerequisite stages of preparing for Lebron to leave..

The moment Pat Riley didnt let LeBron control the frame of the relationship is the moment he whined and left..

The sad reality is this Gilbert let Wiggins a budding star and Irving go to deal with this drama queen..

 

 

[draftmangtParticipant]

 Kyrie asked to be traded its not like they traded him to please Lebron in fact Lebron told the Cavs not to trade Irving and the Wiggins trade led to the Cavs winning thier first championship so i doubt that there’s any regret there.

[Robb_CParticipant]

 Kyrie asked to be traded for obvious reasons.. I believe the Cavs wouldve been better off with Wiggins and still wouldve won that title.. 

Not to mention the raw deal David Blatt recieved.. This team was setting itself up to actually be a fuctional franchise with some stability and blew it all to appease a player whos going to screw them twice and leave them with a loaded draft pick..

 

 

 

 

[draftmangtParticipant]

 Lebron definitely deserves some of the blame for the Cavs current situation. How much is on him and how much is on Gilbert and the front office is hard to say because theres alot of imformation that fans and the media just don’t have. For example when Gilbert reportedly had a deal in place to get PG13 and Bledsoe and wanted a commitment from Lebron, was for 1 more year or 3 plus years . If only 1 years then IMO Lebron doesn’t really have a right to be upset with them for not pulling the trigger on that deal. 

Also Gilbert is far from the greatest owner but the positive i can say about the guy is hes never been hesitant to spend money even after Lebron left. Remember the only reason the Cavs had the #1 pick in 2011 to select Kyrie is because the Cavs took on Baron Davis’s terrible contract. 

The last point i want to dispute is the whole the Cavs are horrible without Lebron narritive. The Cavs in the 90s were actually a pretty good team that would had a legitimate chance at winning a championship had it not been for Jordan. They were terrible in the 2000s pre and post Lebron but they cant run their franchise with the assumption that we are not nor can we ever be a good team without Lebron. To me that mentality would be pathetic. 

I understand Lebron wanting to stay in control and keeping his options open but this handicaps the team hes on because in nearly imposible for them to make future plans. 

 

 

 

[Robb_CParticipant]

 ^ Bingo

[ThepessimestParticipant]

 DraftMangmt hit the nail on the head in terms of summarizing the issues in Cleveland. As much as I love Lebron this type of issue seems to follow him. It was reported that he left Miami because he could not get what he wanted in terms of influence. 

If you look at what the Cavs have done; they have consistently been a team that has spent the most money in the NBA. Lebron "influenced" the Cavs to resign Tristan Thompson and JR Smith. He also wanted Wade to sign this year. Last year when the Cavs had the highest payroll in the NBA he stated that he felt the team was "top heavy". In response the Cavs went and got him one of the best shooters in the league.

All the Cavs are requesting of Lebron is to commit to them at this point. Why? Because the first time Lebron was with the Cavs he sent one signal and then left them without a chance to have a plan for after he left. So as much as we hear about Lebron not trusting the Cavs the Cavs also have a reason not to trust him. 

So blame should be spread around. I don’t know the inner workings of what goes on behind the scenes but from the outside looking in Lebron sometimes comes off as a guy who wants everything provided for him to enhance who he is. 

I get it. In sports teams are not loyal so why should players have to be? But having that approach can also backfire as teams will hesitate to go all in if you yourself do not show that you are all in. This is especially true if you have burned said team once in the future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 Yeah, NO WAY the Warriors should trade Draymond Green for LeBron.  (Sarcasm off).

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 I think the Cleveland fans are celebrating/enjoying/soaking in the last days of LeBron.  

They think: worst case scenario: we still get into the playoffs, Team LeBron makes one more run (probably getting AT LEAST to the second round), we get a solid pick or two (Nets pick and OWN pick), then we reload either WITH LeBron or WITHOUT LeBron.  This WORST CASE SCENARIO probably brings in Zion Williamson in a couple of years.

Ok… the worst case scenario is that LeBron signs with one of the FEW teams that makes sense (Golden State), and you lose him for nothing… not that the Warriors wouldn’t have to do some mad salary cap contortions to shoehorn LeBron in there, but still that makes a TON of sense — LeBron as the power point forward and go-to crunch time bully ball guy with the Triple Threat on the outside (Steph, KD, and Klay).  And, as long as they keep either Pachulia or Jordan Bell or at WORST a replacement level ZaZa Pachulia, I don’t really CARE what the bench looks like — and their bench right now doesn’t really scare me.  Iggy is basically done.  Livingston isn’t much better. Don’t trust Casspi/Young.  Jordan Bell is hurt.  McCaw didn’t really improve and isn’t getting enough minutes anyway…

The Cavs fans probably secretly want a Warriors haul (Draymond, Bell, McCaw, Iggy and Livy, the Warriors 2018 first and a future first round pick) for LeBron James (hey throw in D Wade and IT, too!).

Draymond Green as the Cavs point center probably goes full Magic Johnson Meets Wes Unseld, giving Cleveland 19 points a night, 11 rebounds, and 8 assists with some stout low post defense and passable pick and roll defense.  Kevin Love turns into their Elvin Hayes… then you have a solid draft pick or two, plus whatever Jae Crowder gives them next year.  

For LeBron, not that many teams make sense: Lakers are a mess (kinda), Knicks are a mess again now that Porzingas is hurt.  Rockets would work, but they are working just fine without him and ALREADY have two ball-dominant players.  Plus, if they have to move Ryan Anderson, then maybe the game is more congested, althoug a Big Four of Harden, LeBron, CP3, and Capela might end up being the best in the business — even better (or just as good as) Steph, KD, Klay, and Draymond Green.  They should replace Ryan Anderson then with some cheaper snipers, even if not a stretch four, then some solid 3 point shooting wings.  I guess Eric Gordon would move into a starting spot to form an explosive Big Five.  Now if they had to move EG AND Ryan Anderson (plus others) then I am not sure that Houston should do it…

Outside of resigning with Cleveland, the Warriors make the most sense — move Draymond and the other top assets outside of STEPHKDKLAY.  Go out and get cheaper replacement level centers, hold on to Quin Cook as a SUPER CHEAP backup point guard, keep David West as the veteran enforcer/rebounder/inside defender and ride the SUPER BIG FOUR to nearly 70 wins a year and multiple titles.  Those four (LeBron, Durant, Steph, and Klay) can give you 110 to 120 points by themselves, so you just need to build a plucky (and cheap) bench mob to hustle, rebound some, and burn minutes off the game clock.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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