[AderitoParticipant]

Kobe Bryant believes European basketball players are more skillful than American basketball players, and says it’s a growing trend that can be blamed on the greed and coaching at the AAU level. "I just think European players are just way more skillful," Bryant said Friday night after the Los Angeles Lakers’ 109-106 loss to the Memphis Grizzlies. "They are just taught the game the right way at an early age. … They’re more skillful. It’s something we really have to fix. We really have to address that. We have to teach our kids to play the right way." Bryant was quick to point the finger for the decline of skilled players in the United States. "AAU basketball," Bryant said. "Horrible, terrible AAU basketball. It’s stupid. It doesn’t teach our kids how to play the game at all so you wind up having players that are big and they bring it up and they do all this fancy crap and they don’t know how to post. They don’t know the fundamentals of the game. It’s stupid." Read more at: http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/12114523/kobe-bryant-says-european-players-more-skilled-americans-blames-aau

[EndlessknightParticipant]

 Does anyone doubt this to be true? Just look the FT% of American trained players vs Euros. 

[EndlessknightParticipant]

 Does anyone doubt this to be true? Just look the FT% of American trained players vs Euros. 

[llperez]

I didn’t read the Kobe comments, but I have zero doubt the euro system focuses better on skill development, particularly from a team perspective. With that said, the Europeans are not better and are not producing better players then America so if Kobe said Europeans are better then he’s clearly wrong. America has better athletes and a tougher mental approach with I think American one on one street ball supports while Europeans ar better at passing, ball movement and general finesse skills. Ball handling is probably equal from both.

[llperez]

I didn’t read the Kobe comments, but I have zero doubt the euro system focuses better on skill development, particularly from a team perspective. With that said, the Europeans are not better and are not producing better players then America so if Kobe said Europeans are better then he’s clearly wrong. America has better athletes and a tougher mental approach with I think American one on one street ball supports while Europeans ar better at passing, ball movement and general finesse skills. Ball handling is probably equal from both.

[llperez]

Just read the ESPN article aderito, you might want to change your thread title, Kobe never said that Europeans are better basketball players then Americans.

[llperez]

Just read the ESPN article aderito, you might want to change your thread title, Kobe never said that Europeans are better basketball players then Americans.

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

 America benefits from a much more organized system in regards to youth basketball. Young European players are treated  like hockey players in the U.S. and Canada. College doesn’t mean anything. Going pro is everything. Semi professional teams are the next step after the age of 15-16. I feel at a younger age they have a more professional environment which focuses on fundamentals. 

Also, black American athletes benefit from historical selective breeding which blesses them with the superior athletic ability which in turns lets them cut corners. I am not racist I am just stating the truth. 

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

 America benefits from a much more organized system in regards to youth basketball. Young European players are treated  like hockey players in the U.S. and Canada. College doesn’t mean anything. Going pro is everything. Semi professional teams are the next step after the age of 15-16. I feel at a younger age they have a more professional environment which focuses on fundamentals. 

Also, black American athletes benefit from historical selective breeding which blesses them with the superior athletic ability which in turns lets them cut corners. I am not racist I am just stating the truth. 

[tuck243Participant]

 You just blindly forgot about all the black players that were before this generation of stars…  So I guess Jordan, Magic, Clyde, Webber, Rasheed, KG cut corners?  What was your point in bringing that up?  How can that bring any insight into the debate?  

[tuck243Participant]

 You just blindly forgot about all the black players that were before this generation of stars…  So I guess Jordan, Magic, Clyde, Webber, Rasheed, KG cut corners?  What was your point in bringing that up?  How can that bring any insight into the debate?  

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

I am not saying all black American athletes cut corners. I am simply saying black American athletes have the God given ability to play at the highest level withou reaching their full potential. 

Kobe is my favorite player all time. Look at him as an example of someone who had all the athletic ability in the world and maxed it out and then compare him to Gerald green. This is an argument of nature verses nurture. America is the nature and Europe represents the nurture. 

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

I am not saying all black American athletes cut corners. I am simply saying black American athletes have the God given ability to play at the highest level withou reaching their full potential. 

Kobe is my favorite player all time. Look at him as an example of someone who had all the athletic ability in the world and maxed it out and then compare him to Gerald green. This is an argument of nature verses nurture. America is the nature and Europe represents the nurture. 

[tuck243Participant]

especially when it comes to race (something that’s always a sensitive subject)…  Your point is a little misguided…  The Plumlee brothers are white and do not hold any fundementals of the game really…  Most inferior athletes tend to have some type of skill to combat the athletes of today’s NBA…  Can you say the reason that most blacks are supreme athletes because of breeding in slavery days? Maybe (there isn’t clear information that allows this to be true)…  But race doesn’t play a part in American skill vs. European skill debate. Some of the international players are just as athletic as American players and still have better fundementals of the game… You missed the whole premise of Kobe’s rant…  

[tuck243Participant]

especially when it comes to race (something that’s always a sensitive subject)…  Your point is a little misguided…  The Plumlee brothers are white and do not hold any fundementals of the game really…  Most inferior athletes tend to have some type of skill to combat the athletes of today’s NBA…  Can you say the reason that most blacks are supreme athletes because of breeding in slavery days? Maybe (there isn’t clear information that allows this to be true)…  But race doesn’t play a part in American skill vs. European skill debate. Some of the international players are just as athletic as American players and still have better fundementals of the game… You missed the whole premise of Kobe’s rant…  

[Lotto StudParticipant]

Rudy Fernandez was as athletic as they would come.

[Lotto StudParticipant]

Rudy Fernandez was as athletic as they would come.

[tuck243Participant]

I think Kobe was referring to the Marvin Williams, Terrance Jones, Quincy Miller, or a player like Myles Turner in college…  These are 6’9 and up guys that don’t have any fundemental skills or elite athelitcism… Most were brought up to be a stars because they focused on handling the ball and shooting jump shots…  The NBA (and fans, including me) are enamored by guys like that…  Especially now…  So, we’re bringing up these young kids to shoot 3’s, crossover, and dunk… No inbetween game until they’re vets in the league…  That’s most American NBA players nowadays…   

[tuck243Participant]

I think Kobe was referring to the Marvin Williams, Terrance Jones, Quincy Miller, or a player like Myles Turner in college…  These are 6’9 and up guys that don’t have any fundemental skills or elite athelitcism… Most were brought up to be a stars because they focused on handling the ball and shooting jump shots…  The NBA (and fans, including me) are enamored by guys like that…  Especially now…  So, we’re bringing up these young kids to shoot 3’s, crossover, and dunk… No inbetween game until they’re vets in the league…  That’s most American NBA players nowadays…   

[Lotto StudParticipant]

 From a guard’s perspective, the best player any athlete can watch and study film on is Rip Hamilton.

[Lotto StudParticipant]

 From a guard’s perspective, the best player any athlete can watch and study film on is Rip Hamilton.

[llperez]

 nah, rip was a weak ball handler with poor court vision and zero post game. He was a good guy to study for certain aspects of the game for sure, but to say he is the epitome of what people should study? Obviously there are countless players to study, the best being the ones who are most well rounded and skilled all around. Guys like kobe, jordan, nash olajuwon, mchale, bird etc… those are the guys who deserve the most study.

[llperez]

 nah, rip was a weak ball handler with poor court vision and zero post game. He was a good guy to study for certain aspects of the game for sure, but to say he is the epitome of what people should study? Obviously there are countless players to study, the best being the ones who are most well rounded and skilled all around. Guys like kobe, jordan, nash olajuwon, mchale, bird etc… those are the guys who deserve the most study.

[Lotto StudParticipant]

The problem in today’s game is that everyone is basically ball-dominant. No one prefers to move without it. I see so much stagnation with kids these days from the HS level heading up.

And who is conditioned better to move well without the ball at all times?

I’ll wait on it…

[Lotto StudParticipant]

The problem in today’s game is that everyone is basically ball-dominant. No one prefers to move without it. I see so much stagnation with kids these days from the HS level heading up.

And who is conditioned better to move well without the ball at all times?

I’ll wait on it…

[llperez]

 im not saying he isnt a guy that has a lot to offer in terms of style that kids could learn from. I just think there are better examples in terms of all around skills. 

[llperez]

 im not saying he isnt a guy that has a lot to offer in terms of style that kids could learn from. I just think there are better examples in terms of all around skills. 

[Lotto StudParticipant]

 Double post.

[Lotto StudParticipant]

 Double post.

[Lotto StudParticipant]

Now… From a coaching perspective. I’d rather have a team, or at the least my starting 5 to all be savvy enough to constantly have a feel and drive for actively moving to fighting for creating space and opportunity. A team full of players with scorer’s mentality does no justice at all if no one can, or will consistently fight to get open without the ball. That’s just my take.

Even while playing locally in the gym, I take the fight out of whomever I matchup against, because no one likes to be stuck like glue. After a while of denying the ball throughout majority of the pickup game, that becomes 1 man out of the way to even think about focusing on. Once the other guys realize he’s not getting open, they will not even consider passing the ball whether he’s open or not. It’s all mental.

 

 

[Lotto StudParticipant]

Now… From a coaching perspective. I’d rather have a team, or at the least my starting 5 to all be savvy enough to constantly have a feel and drive for actively moving to fighting for creating space and opportunity. A team full of players with scorer’s mentality does no justice at all if no one can, or will consistently fight to get open without the ball. That’s just my take.

Even while playing locally in the gym, I take the fight out of whomever I matchup against, because no one likes to be stuck like glue. After a while of denying the ball throughout majority of the pickup game, that becomes 1 man out of the way to even think about focusing on. Once the other guys realize he’s not getting open, they will not even consider passing the ball whether he’s open or not. It’s all mental.

 

 

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

 how do i set this fool to ignore?

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

 how do i set this fool to ignore?

[tuck243Participant]

Watch an NBA game and look at certain things that players don’t do…  No one boxes out…  Kevin Love is one guy that always box out and he’s normally Top 3 leading rebounder…  Most big guys just go up for the boards…  I rarely see that in AAU too…  No one takes mid-range shots unless it’s a pull up in traffic…  In fact, players rather pull up from 3 than at the freethrow line…  Which is crazy because the NBA thrived on mid range and low post game for generations…  As good as a shooter Bird was he didn’t take many 3’s…  Yet, nowadays the low post and mid range is all but abandon..  

Gone are the days of 7 foot guys that are unstoppable on the low block…  You could point to the Centers like Ewing, Smits, Robinson, The Dream etc…  But even the guys after them playing PF were good down there too…  Webber, KG, Duncan, Rasheed, McDyess etc…  Now? Everyone is almost a face up 4/5 with no low post game…  Look at all the young American big men in the NBA…  Only one has a back to the basket game and he was a headcase (which could be attributed to AAU ball) for his first 4 years… He just NOW got it (Cousins)…  We raved about Embiid last year and Okafor this year because we don’t see these kind of players anymore..  Yea, run and gun can win a ton of games, but you’ll need easy buckets in the playoffs…  Without a legit back to the basket guy in the lowpost, I don’t see how you can win a championship…  Those shooting and passing windows become smaller in the playoffs…  LeBron didn’t win until he went down there…  Just food for thought..

 

   

 

[tuck243Participant]

Watch an NBA game and look at certain things that players don’t do…  No one boxes out…  Kevin Love is one guy that always box out and he’s normally Top 3 leading rebounder…  Most big guys just go up for the boards…  I rarely see that in AAU too…  No one takes mid-range shots unless it’s a pull up in traffic…  In fact, players rather pull up from 3 than at the freethrow line…  Which is crazy because the NBA thrived on mid range and low post game for generations…  As good as a shooter Bird was he didn’t take many 3’s…  Yet, nowadays the low post and mid range is all but abandon..  

Gone are the days of 7 foot guys that are unstoppable on the low block…  You could point to the Centers like Ewing, Smits, Robinson, The Dream etc…  But even the guys after them playing PF were good down there too…  Webber, KG, Duncan, Rasheed, McDyess etc…  Now? Everyone is almost a face up 4/5 with no low post game…  Look at all the young American big men in the NBA…  Only one has a back to the basket game and he was a headcase (which could be attributed to AAU ball) for his first 4 years… He just NOW got it (Cousins)…  We raved about Embiid last year and Okafor this year because we don’t see these kind of players anymore..  Yea, run and gun can win a ton of games, but you’ll need easy buckets in the playoffs…  Without a legit back to the basket guy in the lowpost, I don’t see how you can win a championship…  Those shooting and passing windows become smaller in the playoffs…  LeBron didn’t win until he went down there…  Just food for thought..

 

   

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 He should take a page out of the Charles Barkley playbook and tell kids "I am not a basketball role model.  Bird and Magic are basketball role models.  Don’t do what Kobe does."

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 He should take a page out of the Charles Barkley playbook and tell kids "I am not a basketball role model.  Bird and Magic are basketball role models.  Don’t do what Kobe does."

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

IF we’re talking about strictly basketball skills, work ethic, etc Kobe is definitely a basketball role model. 

There aren’t too many players in NBA history there are as skilled and fundamentally sound as Kobe. 

I’m not talking about his shot selection and all that… Just talking about his skills. He basically has no real weaknesses in his basketball skill set. 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

IF we’re talking about strictly basketball skills, work ethic, etc Kobe is definitely a basketball role model. 

There aren’t too many players in NBA history there are as skilled and fundamentally sound as Kobe. 

I’m not talking about his shot selection and all that… Just talking about his skills. He basically has no real weaknesses in his basketball skill set. 

 

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

1 on 1 vs team ball with fluidity. The NBA rules has something to do with this also, man to man vs zones and particularly the Shaq rule. The NBA made it harder to post and why post as a kid if nobody will throw you the ball. I think growing up watching American stars is what’s holding kids back. Iverson, Kobe, Jordan made a generation of players think one on one was the best way to play basketball. Since Magic and Stockton, the only passer we pumped up was Nash.  Lebron is a good passer because he idolized Magic not Jordan. 

AAU does contribute because there is little continuity and players are the ones with power. If a coach is hard on you or forcing you to learn versus showcase you just leave to whoever will give you free stuff. All fast breaks and no defense or scheme. But just fix AAU, it doesn’t need to be demonized, it does pit the best versus best. The EYBL is a great example, its not technically AAU but it serves the same purpose just in a better way. 

Amercans learn the Marbury/Kobe method of passing, you do it when absolutely necessary or when you want an assist, not just move the ball for ball movement sake. 

The real problem with AAU is that it rewards coaches/teams for getting and influencing top players not developing them as men or players. 

All Kobe did was say the problem ws AAU, not how to fix it or what to replace it with. It was not some brilliant revelation. Some of the problem is indicative of specialization versus well roundedness and has all type of cultural imperatives. 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

1 on 1 vs team ball with fluidity. The NBA rules has something to do with this also, man to man vs zones and particularly the Shaq rule. The NBA made it harder to post and why post as a kid if nobody will throw you the ball. I think growing up watching American stars is what’s holding kids back. Iverson, Kobe, Jordan made a generation of players think one on one was the best way to play basketball. Since Magic and Stockton, the only passer we pumped up was Nash.  Lebron is a good passer because he idolized Magic not Jordan. 

AAU does contribute because there is little continuity and players are the ones with power. If a coach is hard on you or forcing you to learn versus showcase you just leave to whoever will give you free stuff. All fast breaks and no defense or scheme. But just fix AAU, it doesn’t need to be demonized, it does pit the best versus best. The EYBL is a great example, its not technically AAU but it serves the same purpose just in a better way. 

Amercans learn the Marbury/Kobe method of passing, you do it when absolutely necessary or when you want an assist, not just move the ball for ball movement sake. 

The real problem with AAU is that it rewards coaches/teams for getting and influencing top players not developing them as men or players. 

All Kobe did was say the problem ws AAU, not how to fix it or what to replace it with. It was not some brilliant revelation. Some of the problem is indicative of specialization versus well roundedness and has all type of cultural imperatives. 

 

 

 

 

 

[CU.LIONSParticipant]

To TheartistPaysth, I think the things you mentioned is dead on. Not sure why posters are disagreeing with you.

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

Who knows? They didn’t give replies just negs. I only neg people if they give terrible points or made a bad arguement not because I disagree with them. Opinion questions have no right answer just bad or good ones. 

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

Who knows? They didn’t give replies just negs. I only neg people if they give terrible points or made a bad arguement not because I disagree with them. Opinion questions have no right answer just bad or good ones. 

[CU.LIONSParticipant]

To TheartistPaysth, I think the things you mentioned is dead on. Not sure why posters are disagreeing with you.

[20110913]

 Are European white Players Better Than American whites?

[20110913]

 Are European white Players Better Than American whites?

[Author]

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