[OhCanada-Participant]

Saw a rumor that Utah, LA and NY have discussed a trade that would send Mitchell to the Knicks, Westbrook to the Lakers. a bunch of high level role players to the Lakers to match salaries (some combination of Beverley, Bogdanovic, Clarkson, Rose, Fournier, Beasley), In return Jazz would get a fortune of picks/pick swaps from both franchises.

I think its a win win for everyone. Obviously Knicks win getting Mitchell. Jazz win by tanking this year and collecting assets. And if the Lakers can put a few high level starters around Lebron and AD they could be right back in the mix for a title. As long as the picks they send out don’t exceed the amount of years Lebron plans to stay in LA they should be fine. There was another rumor he would extend for 2 years so if LA trades 2 unprotected firsts and a pick swap, they could get rid of Westbrook and still get 3 or 4 of those players to shape their new team.

Watching Pat Bev yelling at Anthony Davis all game would be hilarious haha. Thoughts on the rumor?

[OhCanada-Participant]

I played around with trade Machine and heres what I got.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=24atum

To KNICKS
-Mitchell, Beverley

To LAKERS
-Bogdanovic, Fournier, Rose, Clarkson

To JAZZ
-Westbrook, Barrett, Horton-Tucker (+ 10 1st round picks or something crazy)

The wildcard here I think is Barrett. Knicks don’t seem to want to keep Barrett. He is a RFA this upcoming offseason and will demand a near max contract. I don’t think the Jazz want him either. I read another rumor saying they are not interested. So the Lakers are probably gonna be pushing for Barrett which would be more expensive to their future draft capitol. If they could get Barrett instead of Fournier and add a few more picks that would be a nice haul.

[HitsterParticipant]

That would be an interesting trade could Lakers go all in to get Mitchell for Westbrook plus picks.

If some of the Knicks complimentary players ended up at Lakers they would have some nice squad players.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

In a lot of ways, the Mitchell to NY rumors feel like the next chapter of the Brunson to the Knicks, but that doesn’t mean they should empty the vault for him. I think you empty the vault for Durant, because a team with Brunson, Durant, and Randle is a legit contender. I don’t think Brunson, Mitchell, and Randle are the best three players on a team that can take out Miami, Milwaukee, Boston, etc. If that is the case, you can’t move every available asset. It is the NBA. Players come available that you didn’t expect. It is not a situation where “if not him, then panic.”

I understand the rumors with the Lakers, but I have said this before, they need to be young around LeBron and Davis to get them through the regular season. Bojan Bogdanovic and Derrick Rose are still good players, but they miss time. The expectation has to be that they are going to miss time. Rose in NY with a young team still has value, just as he had value with a young team in Minnesota. What he adds is worth the understanding that he won’t be available for all 82. Look back on how valuable he was in the playoffs a couple years ago, and how he got Minnesota through the Jimmy Butler exit. LeBron and Davis don’t need Rose to stabilize things when RJ Barrett is playing his first playoff series. They need young legs (more in terms of years in the league than birth years as I think Toscano-Anderson’s relative lack of minutes allows him to offer that at 30) to get them to the playoffs. They have a bunch of lottery tickets. They probably need to have some degree of success with three of them, and it is fair to have doubts about their young guys: Talen Horton-Tucker (did the sprinkling of success and a big extension assuming continued growth actually slow it?), Austin Reaves (the prototype for this type of lottery ticket, but will he fall victim to what came of THT last year, Thomas Bryant (did he fall out of favor in Washington because he wasn’t fully recovered from his ACL, and if so will he be better equipped to contribute for the Lakers this season?), Lonnie Walker (was he simply a victim of San Antonio’s abundance of draft picks over drafting his position, or is he simply a bad defender with an iffy shot), and Kendrick Nunn (he grinded his way in through the back door of the NBA to ultimately get his contract with the Lakers, but is the knee problem behind him and was the injury just bad luck), Troy Brown (he wasn’t a lottery pick because of his shot, and his inability to develop as a shooter is why he is on his third team at 23 years old), Stanley Johnson (showed enough hustle to seem as though he understands being the 8th pick in the draft won’t get him chances anymore, but is there enough to his game to be more than just a hustle guy), Wenyen Gabriel (another hustle and grind guy who showed some promise shooting the ball in the G-League last season shooting 39% from three on only 31 attempts. Can he take the next step to merit hanging around?), Max Christie (obviously promising, his shot looks better than the results, but will probably need to pack on 10-15 lbs of muscle before realistically contributing), Cole Swider (he shot it well at Syracuse, shot it well over the summer, but like everyone from Syracuse can he defend enough to get on the floor), Scotty Pippen Jr (has the athleticism to defend point guards, but had no interest in doing so at Vandy. Was that about desire or need to save himself for offense?), Fabian White (He showed himself to have the makings of being a stretch 4 with good length and defensive chops, but did they play Shareef O’Neal, Sacha Killeya-Jones, and Vitto Brown over him in the summer league to make sure they got him to their training camp or am I missing something?), Jay Huff (similar to White in terms of summer league minutes, and he was with their G-League team last year), and Javonte McCoy (can buy into the small school guy lighting up the G-League, but what possible role would he have should he get a shot in the NBA?).

Obviously, once the Jazz decided to go down the full rebuild path, it is just a matter of time before every leaves. Still, I can’t imagine they get this type of haul for their guys. The Gobert trade has altered perception quite a bit, but I cannot imagine anything close to this is possible.

[HitsterParticipant]

Durant, Randall and Brunson make a good trio but I don’t see that being a true contender IMO. But if the Knicks got KD it would be a big plus for them and give them something to run with.

As regards the Lakers they need solid durable role players but have they got the right mix. Young vguys have the legs but maybe not thye guile ande knowhow to be a key role player on a contending team. LBJ almost needs guys who will do the heavy lifting for him but they are hard to find. Look at the nice deal PJ Tucker got at 37 years old as he does this sort of role without being an All NBA level defender.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

With the various trade possibilities, it is hard to pin down all the pieces, but the Knicks would still likely have other role players I regard. I assume as long as Thibs is there, so will Lieutenant Rose. With Brunson in the picture, they will be better equipped at monitoring his minutes to get him to the spring. I liked the picks of Miles McBride and Quentin Grimes, and think they could be contributors. Reddish runs hot and cold, and has since Duke. The idea of him has always been better than the reality, but that is because there aren’t a ton of 6’8″ wings. I think they got a little frisky with paying Hartenstein mid-tier money, but as I have mentioned prior to the draft there are not a ton of proper centers who are competent on the outside and capable inside. If they were to offer the “Ainge asking price” for Durant as opposed to Mitchell, I think there could still be enough left to match up well with Boston, Miami, and Milwaukee.

The failing of the the Lakers last year was thinking they could surround LeBron in year 19 and an always injured AD with Ariza in year 18, Melo in year 19, Rondo in year 15, DeAndre Jordan and Westbrook in year 13, Ellington in year 12, and Bradley in year 11, and get through 82 games in one piece. It is too much of a burden on guys with too many miles, and that is before touching on Howard and Jordan having not been good for a number of years. PJ Tucker is 37, but only has 10 NBA years, and only played 2500 minutes once. Ageing in any pro sport is more of a combination of luck (injuries), miles, and lifestyle than the calendar. While Tucker is on the decline, he longevity is helped by the path he has had. I’d argue he has aged better than James Harden, not that he is a better player, but that he remains closer to his personal peak than Harden is to his. With the supporting young-ish players on the Lakers, Nunn and Toscano-Anderson came from Miami and Golden State. Those aren’t roll the ball out franchises. Obviously, none of their rookies or flier second shot chance prospects are certainties, but they come from big programs. Tapping all the remaining assets prior to the season to make the squad older just seems like a bad idea. If they can sift through their collection of young players and find some facsimile of a Caruso, KCP, and Kuzma while also piecing together a center collection to allow Davis to avoid true centers as he prefers, they can get to the spring in the playoff picture.

[HitsterParticipant]

Mileage is an important factor and PJ Tucker hasn’t played anywhere near as much as some younger bigger names plus his intangibles role player game isn’t going to draw the scrutiny and physical attention that a star player gets.

The right balance between younger players and veterans on any contending team is a key factor and having one or two younger guys to do the running and learn from the veterans across the regular season is important in a team’s development. GSW with Kuminga and Moody is a good example. These type of younger players need to fill the minutes across a season and then may well have a smaller role in the play offs when a coach goes for his trusted veterans in tight games. I believe both saw a big minute decline in the play offs but still contributed.

Or teams will sign a waived veteran, trade for one for a play off run or tempt someone without a team to return. Boston in 2008 when they added a couple of 15 season odd vets in PJ Brown and Sam Cassell. PJ had been courted by the “big 3” to come back for the run-in with a chance of a title and like Sam retired as a champ having filled useful minutes in the run in and play offs.

Teams who have traded away all their younger assets can sometimes struggle to fill roster places with younger guys who can do the relevant roles and any contending team needs a good mix of vets and younger players.

A contending team is an attractive place for vets but they must have something still in the tank or are used to get the best out of them and keep them ready for the play offs/big games.

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