[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 For most of the season this draft has basically been billed as Ben Simmons and everyone else. While I haven’t been as completely enamored with Simmons as a lot of people, I have just generally accepted it as fact that Simmons was going to go number one no matter what. 

However, Simmons one year at LSU has pretty much been nothing short of a nightmare. While his stats have no doubt been impressive, his attitude has left a lot to be desired. He has basically played the season as if he doesn’t care about helping his team win, and is only concerned about getting his numbers. He has shown no interest in leading or even in being part of the team. It has been revealed this week that he hasn’t even maintained the necessary 2.0 gpa required to be eligible for the wooden award. Simmons isn’t a unintelligent guy by any means so how hard could it really be for him to maintain a 2.0 gpa with all the resources available to him? There has to be some serious character concerns here, which is somewhat disturbing for a player who was billed as such a high character and mature kid coming out of hs. Will he be one of those guys who no one wants to play with? Is that what you would want in a franchise player?

I still wouldn’t hesitate to take Simmons first if he were really that good, but I’m not completely convinced Simmons really is as good or as much of a transcendent talent as people are making him out to be. While I love his court vision and ability to handle the ball for a player his size, his overall offensive game still leaves a lot to be desired imo. His effort on defense has been downright atrocious this year, so I can’t really gauge what kind of defender he will be at the next level. I saw lebron and Durant at the same age and knew within a few mins of watching them that they were going to be franchise-altering talents. I haven’t gotten the same feeling when watching Simmons. I’m not necessarily saying he won’t be that type of player but it’s just not as obvious to me right now.

Brandon ingram is not quite as developed as Simmons right now from a physical standpoint. I would say he’s far from a sure thing either and I have my own concerns about him. However, he has an extremely intriguing combination of skills, length and athletic ability. I wouldn’t say he is a better player than Simmons right now, but he could be in 3-5 years.  He can shoot consistently from the outside, which Simmons can’t, and he would seem to be a much better fit with the current young rosters of either philly or LA, the 2 teams with likely the best chance of the top pick. He seems to have a great attitude and work ethic, and there are no character concerns that I’m aware of.

It would have seem unthinkable a few months ago, but the more I think about it it actually seems like a distinct possibility that ingram could be the one with his name called first on draft night. I realize that the odds are that Simmons still goes first, but i think if you are philly or LA, you would at least have to think long and hard about it.

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

I think the problem is that there is no clear alternative for Simmons at #1. The main issue I have with Simmons is his lack of outside shot, which is a crucial element in today’s game, which means we would have to play a bit more inside for which he needs more muscle and bulk. Don’t get me wrong, he remains a unique talent, but I wonder where he will fit in in today’s NBA. He needs the ball in his hands to be most effective, and there are only a handful of teams who could use someone like that.

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

I think the problem is that there is no clear alternative for Simmons at #1. The main issue I have with Simmons is his lack of outside shot, which is a crucial element in today’s game, which means we would have to play a bit more inside for which he needs more muscle and bulk. Don’t get me wrong, he remains a unique talent, but I wonder where he will fit in in today’s NBA. He needs the ball in his hands to be most effective, and there are only a handful of teams who could use someone like that.

[TravelinTravParticipant]

I think it depends how well Ingram does in March, if he carries the Blue Devils to the final four he may end up the #1 pick, EX= Rose over Beasley. Time will tell.  

[TravelinTravParticipant]

I think it depends how well Ingram does in March, if he carries the Blue Devils to the final four he may end up the #1 pick, EX= Rose over Beasley. Time will tell.  

[HitsterParticipant]

I’d say he’s still clear favourite to go number 1, Ingram IMO is the only guy who can challenge him – bit like Oden and KD in 2008. Not skillset or hypewise but when you had two players considered well ahead of the rest.

Also with them both playing comparable positions, there may not be a case where one would be the much better fit than the other so team takes BPA in effect.

Whoever gets number 1 pick ( hopefully Suns – fan hat on there) will surely work out both guys so they would get a direct comparision there.

I’ll ge interested to see if Simmons would work out for many teams, probably number 2 pick as a safety net after meeting with top team. Would Ingram work out for 3rd and maybe less likely 4th team I wonder too? A lot of this could be complicated if Lakers are in the mix, if Philly get two high picks, Boston drafting in a false position etc.

[HitsterParticipant]

I’d say he’s still clear favourite to go number 1, Ingram IMO is the only guy who can challenge him – bit like Oden and KD in 2008. Not skillset or hypewise but when you had two players considered well ahead of the rest.

Also with them both playing comparable positions, there may not be a case where one would be the much better fit than the other so team takes BPA in effect.

Whoever gets number 1 pick ( hopefully Suns – fan hat on there) will surely work out both guys so they would get a direct comparision there.

I’ll ge interested to see if Simmons would work out for many teams, probably number 2 pick as a safety net after meeting with top team. Would Ingram work out for 3rd and maybe less likely 4th team I wonder too? A lot of this could be complicated if Lakers are in the mix, if Philly get two high picks, Boston drafting in a false position etc.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 I think he is the top pick still.

I don’t see a guy really threatening him.

IF we get a NEW number 1 guy I think it will be Buddy Hield.  Say what you want, but he can shoot, score, and rebound from the 2 guard spot.

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 I think he is the top pick still.

I don’t see a guy really threatening him.

IF we get a NEW number 1 guy I think it will be Buddy Hield.  Say what you want, but he can shoot, score, and rebound from the 2 guard spot.

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

Another thing: I think it could still depend on who gets the top pick.

If it is the Lakers, then I think they have to go with Ben Simmons.

Russell and Clarkson is their backcourt, and they have Randle at the 4. 

I think they run Ben Simmons out there and let them figure it out.

In that case, they either need a younger center with range, or make Randle start practicing the corner 3.

 

 

 

  

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

Another thing: I think it could still depend on who gets the top pick.

If it is the Lakers, then I think they have to go with Ben Simmons.

Russell and Clarkson is their backcourt, and they have Randle at the 4. 

I think they run Ben Simmons out there and let them figure it out.

In that case, they either need a younger center with range, or make Randle start practicing the corner 3.

 

 

 

  

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

I was actually thinking that the Lakers are not a particular good fit. Both Clarkson and Randle are inconsistent shooters, and their backcourt both needs the ball in their hands. 

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

I was actually thinking that the Lakers are not a particular good fit. Both Clarkson and Randle are inconsistent shooters, and their backcourt both needs the ball in their hands. 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

A few things:

First, I do not think the season was a disaster. A lot of people thought LSU was better than they were, because they equate NBA prospects with successful college team. I get my fair share wrong too, but they seemed destined for ten-plus losses and a bubble status. It was not a team built to compete at the highest of levels this season. It was not a Fab 5 recruiting class, it was one guy. Simmons is not a perfect prospect by any means, and it was never fair to compare him to LeBron, but he has been fantastic on the court. His ability to create and see the floor is not something to dismiss. He has to learn to shoot, and there is never a guarantee of development, but even if he does not there is still a 6’10" player who can get in the paint and finish inside. While I think some of his rebounding numbers are a bit inflated because the rest of LSU is guard-heavy, it is still a valuable asset. In a lot of way, I see similarities between the perception of Simmons after his freshman season with that of Drummond after his season at UConn. No matter how impressive their season actually was, it is measured against an unrealistic one that they entered the year possessing.

Second, people have to be fair in their criticism. When it was reported Johnny Jones benched him for academics, it was laughed at in many circles. When people find out Simmons had a GPA below 2.0, they call into question his character and work ethic. Look, it is not good for a person to go through the motions in any aspect of life, nor is blowing off the opportunity to learn. Then again, simply because sports and schools are connected it does not mean success in them are connected. I don’t like it when people take issue with a person’s age when they were not academically eligible at 18 and either had to go to a junior college or prep school. It has nothing to do with basketball or their development as basketball players, and there are a lot of factors that impact one and less so the other. In this instance, while I think teams absolutely need to look into why this happened, there is no guarantee that failure to give effort in class connects to effort to continue developing as a basketball player. It could be nothing. It might just be as simple as the player knew he was gone on April 1, so he stopped trying and the university did not care enough to either stop him or prop him up. It is possible that a program that is used to having these types of freshmen like Duke or Kentucky would have handled the situation in a different manner.

Third, Duke is 11-7 in the ACC, 5-4 on the road, and 10-8 against teams ranked in the RPI Top 100. LSU is 11-7 in the SEC, 3-8 on the road, and 7-7 against teams ranked in the RPI Top 100. Duke is better than LSU, but far from what anyone would consider their standard. This is not a season where the freshmen have been dominant forces in college basketball. It happens, and it does not mean Simmons or Ingram are bad prospects. I just point this out because nobody holds Duke’s middling season against Ingram, and Duke has more than one guy projected to be a first round pick. 

 

 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

A few things:

First, I do not think the season was a disaster. A lot of people thought LSU was better than they were, because they equate NBA prospects with successful college team. I get my fair share wrong too, but they seemed destined for ten-plus losses and a bubble status. It was not a team built to compete at the highest of levels this season. It was not a Fab 5 recruiting class, it was one guy. Simmons is not a perfect prospect by any means, and it was never fair to compare him to LeBron, but he has been fantastic on the court. His ability to create and see the floor is not something to dismiss. He has to learn to shoot, and there is never a guarantee of development, but even if he does not there is still a 6’10" player who can get in the paint and finish inside. While I think some of his rebounding numbers are a bit inflated because the rest of LSU is guard-heavy, it is still a valuable asset. In a lot of way, I see similarities between the perception of Simmons after his freshman season with that of Drummond after his season at UConn. No matter how impressive their season actually was, it is measured against an unrealistic one that they entered the year possessing.

Second, people have to be fair in their criticism. When it was reported Johnny Jones benched him for academics, it was laughed at in many circles. When people find out Simmons had a GPA below 2.0, they call into question his character and work ethic. Look, it is not good for a person to go through the motions in any aspect of life, nor is blowing off the opportunity to learn. Then again, simply because sports and schools are connected it does not mean success in them are connected. I don’t like it when people take issue with a person’s age when they were not academically eligible at 18 and either had to go to a junior college or prep school. It has nothing to do with basketball or their development as basketball players, and there are a lot of factors that impact one and less so the other. In this instance, while I think teams absolutely need to look into why this happened, there is no guarantee that failure to give effort in class connects to effort to continue developing as a basketball player. It could be nothing. It might just be as simple as the player knew he was gone on April 1, so he stopped trying and the university did not care enough to either stop him or prop him up. It is possible that a program that is used to having these types of freshmen like Duke or Kentucky would have handled the situation in a different manner.

Third, Duke is 11-7 in the ACC, 5-4 on the road, and 10-8 against teams ranked in the RPI Top 100. LSU is 11-7 in the SEC, 3-8 on the road, and 7-7 against teams ranked in the RPI Top 100. Duke is better than LSU, but far from what anyone would consider their standard. This is not a season where the freshmen have been dominant forces in college basketball. It happens, and it does not mean Simmons or Ingram are bad prospects. I just point this out because nobody holds Duke’s middling season against Ingram, and Duke has more than one guy projected to be a first round pick. 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 If somebody could explain to me why Vanderbilt is ranked 49th on the RPI and LSU is 90th I’d be quite happy. Vanderbilt is 19-12 Overall, 11-7 Conference, and 7-10 vs RPI, and 3-9 on the road. Aside from the one win in contrast what makes a 41 team ranking difference between the two?

[OhCanada-Participant]

 If somebody could explain to me why Vanderbilt is ranked 49th on the RPI and LSU is 90th I’d be quite happy. Vanderbilt is 19-12 Overall, 11-7 Conference, and 7-10 vs RPI, and 3-9 on the road. Aside from the one win in contrast what makes a 41 team ranking difference between the two?

[OhCanada-Participant]

 

Point differential is the only glaring difference I see. Maybe somebody could explain how this works.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 

Point differential is the only glaring difference I see. Maybe somebody could explain how this works.

[Dev44Participant]

The fact that Simmons misses classes and isn’t in the gym working on his game. Is not working on his jumper or things like that, I would think, that as gm, this would scare me. Like how serious are you about the game and getting better and he’s not even paid yet. 2, how selfish could a player be to not care enough for one season to give his team the best chance to be successful…

[Dev44Participant]

The fact that Simmons misses classes and isn’t in the gym working on his game. Is not working on his jumper or things like that, I would think, that as gm, this would scare me. Like how serious are you about the game and getting better and he’s not even paid yet. 2, how selfish could a player be to not care enough for one season to give his team the best chance to be successful…

[Author]

Posts