[TenSecondTomParticipant]

Every year we hear about international prospects and how they are a relative unknown and what so have you and I get a bit wrapped up when people say that an international prospect is an "unknown". We live in a globalized world with internet access and websites like rojadirect.me to watch games and players in any country. Players like Dario Saric, Clint Capela, Giannis, Gobert, etc. are not an unknown entity, they are just merely underscouted. I excluded Dante Exum because his situation is more complicated, but even with Exum, he should not be considered an unknown; he’s played against the top competition an Australian player his age could possibly play on the international level and has thrived. If you’ve seen him play you would know he is a top 5 pick and looks to be the better choice between him and Marcus Smart. This isn’t pre Dream Team Era basketball where there were maybe five good international players that could compete at a high level; some of these international prospects go up against grown men that would be able to hold their own at the highest level. Some of them are battle tested, and if you look hard enough, easily scoutable. I just find it really surprising that in 2014 there is still that stigma of uncertainty with regards to international prospects. They make up 30% of the league and have become much more consistent contributors to the NBA in recent years. They have come a long way since the days of Danilovic, Divac, Petrovic, Kukoc, Sabonis etc. yet perception hasn’t totally caught up to the reality. What are your thoughts?

 

[theprophetParticipant]

to be the devil’s advocate, outside of dirk, there has never been an international born and groomed player that has been an mvp candidate. ultimately it’s a stigma though, much like the black qb was not to long ago in the nfl.

[omphalosParticipant]

You could argue that Tony Parker has played at an MVP level the last couple of seasons with what he’s done with the Spurs.

[theprophetParticipant]

ok… you got me!!! but i think you get the point though

[theprophetParticipant]

ok… you got me!!! but i think you get the point though

[omphalosParticipant]

You could argue that Tony Parker has played at an MVP level the last couple of seasons with what he’s done with the Spurs.

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

 kiki vanderweghe was a legit mvp candidate in the 80’s

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

 I named my wifes Cat after him.

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

 I named my wifes Cat after him.

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

 kiki vanderweghe was a legit mvp candidate in the 80’s

[The8thDeadlySinParticipant]

 I guess you are saying that Nash (Canada) and Duncan (Virgin Islands), both born outside of USA, were groomed in the USA?  What about Hakeem?  I suppose since they all played college ball here they dont count.  How close was Yao to being an MVP?

[theprophetParticipant]

ming was not close, although the prospect level was thought to be maybe he can be an mvp guy at ceiling, and floor of rik smits. that’s what i was hearing as yao as a prospect. the other players mentioned, yeah they played college ball in the states. that’s where they were most groomed.

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

 wasnt voting still determind by the press when yao averaged 26/10/2blk???

 

i wouldnt count him out as a (real) MVP candidate whatsoever… 

 

 

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

 wasnt voting still determind by the press when yao averaged 26/10/2blk???

 

i wouldnt count him out as a (real) MVP candidate whatsoever… 

 

 

[theprophetParticipant]

ming was not close, although the prospect level was thought to be maybe he can be an mvp guy at ceiling, and floor of rik smits. that’s what i was hearing as yao as a prospect. the other players mentioned, yeah they played college ball in the states. that’s where they were most groomed.

[European BasketballerParticipant]

Nash was actualy born in South Africa, under British nationality.

[European BasketballerParticipant]

Nash was actualy born in South Africa, under British nationality.

[The8thDeadlySinParticipant]

 I guess you are saying that Nash (Canada) and Duncan (Virgin Islands), both born outside of USA, were groomed in the USA?  What about Hakeem?  I suppose since they all played college ball here they dont count.  How close was Yao to being an MVP?

[theprophetParticipant]

to be the devil’s advocate, outside of dirk, there has never been an international born and groomed player that has been an mvp candidate. ultimately it’s a stigma though, much like the black qb was not to long ago in the nfl.

[TenSecondTomParticipant]

 My counter-argument to that would be outside of Derrick Rose all players who have won League MVP have been voted in to the HOF or will be at one point or another. Sure there aren’t many euro stars in the league but lately they have been at least serviceable rotation players and some have developed in to much more like TP, Dragic, Dirk, Ibaka, Ginobili, Batum, Gasol bros. etc. 

[theprophetParticipant]

i agree, that’s why i said it’s a stigma

[theprophetParticipant]

i agree, that’s why i said it’s a stigma

[TenSecondTomParticipant]

 My counter-argument to that would be outside of Derrick Rose all players who have won League MVP have been voted in to the HOF or will be at one point or another. Sure there aren’t many euro stars in the league but lately they have been at least serviceable rotation players and some have developed in to much more like TP, Dragic, Dirk, Ibaka, Ginobili, Batum, Gasol bros. etc. 

[TenSecondTomParticipant]

Kiki tied for 22nd in the MVP voting in the 80s lmao. But yeah the whole unknown thing bothers me more than the argument you raised.

[theprophetParticipant]

but that’s just it, it’s part of the entirety. the stigma from past about international players is lack of “toughness” or “athleticism” which is garbage, but part of the unknown that goes with that and the popularity of the sport, etc.

[theprophetParticipant]

but that’s just it, it’s part of the entirety. the stigma from past about international players is lack of “toughness” or “athleticism” which is garbage, but part of the unknown that goes with that and the popularity of the sport, etc.

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

   eh i was wrong about kiki, but he still at least got some votes (especially when competing against magic and larry legend)…

scoring in the mid to upper 20’s for the better part of the decade has to count for something.

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

   eh i was wrong about kiki, but he still at least got some votes (especially when competing against magic and larry legend)…

scoring in the mid to upper 20’s for the better part of the decade has to count for something.

[TenSecondTomParticipant]

Kiki tied for 22nd in the MVP voting in the 80s lmao. But yeah the whole unknown thing bothers me more than the argument you raised.

[BunBuRyoDoParticipant]

 arent internacional players anymore. You learn something new everyday.

[theprophetParticipant]

yes they are. and i would consider hakeem groomed in the university of houston, and nash santa clara.

[theprophetParticipant]

yes they are. and i would consider hakeem groomed in the university of houston, and nash santa clara.

[BunBuRyoDoParticipant]

 arent internacional players anymore. You learn something new everyday.

[IhateusernamesParticipant]

 Parker still needs an asterisk by his name. His family is from Chicago. Dad, brothers etc. I blame his greatness on Chi Town.  

Yes Im from Chicago

 

 

[King CaluchaParticipant]

Wiggins’ and Exum’s families are from the US too. They are still international prospects…

[theprophetParticipant]

yes they are. a lot of posters here like to point out where players are from internationally that are great, which isn’t wrong, but to stay on the original topic, it’s international mystery man, not international on blast for everyone to know and groomed in the united states man.

[theprophetParticipant]

yes they are. a lot of posters here like to point out where players are from internationally that are great, which isn’t wrong, but to stay on the original topic, it’s international mystery man, not international on blast for everyone to know and groomed in the united states man.

[European BasketballerParticipant]

Wiggin’s mother is Canadian and actually he lived the first 3 years of his life in Greece. So he is half Canadian and Greece could claim him also using this same "logic".

Did you know that his family made sure that he was born in Canada and not USA? Then right after he was born they went to Greece and stayed there for several years, where he lived as a child……..

And then he lived in Canada…………..

Canada and Greece should have more of a claim to him than USA.

 

[European BasketballerParticipant]

Wiggin’s mother is Canadian and actually he lived the first 3 years of his life in Greece. So he is half Canadian and Greece could claim him also using this same "logic".

Did you know that his family made sure that he was born in Canada and not USA? Then right after he was born they went to Greece and stayed there for several years, where he lived as a child……..

And then he lived in Canada…………..

Canada and Greece should have more of a claim to him than USA.

 

[King CaluchaParticipant]

Wiggins’ and Exum’s families are from the US too. They are still international prospects…

[European BasketballerParticipant]

Parker was born in Belgium. I guess he isn’t French or American then using your ridiculously absurd logic. Drop the racist American bull&$#%#&@!.

[European BasketballerParticipant]

Parker was born in Belgium. I guess he isn’t French or American then using your ridiculously absurd logic. Drop the racist American bull&$#%#&@!.

[IhateusernamesParticipant]

 Parker still needs an asterisk by his name. His family is from Chicago. Dad, brothers etc. I blame his greatness on Chi Town.  

Yes Im from Chicago

 

 

[King CaluchaParticipant]

Well… in that case, Mario Hezonja. He’s not getting minutes consistently and his attitude has been questioned before, but he can definitely play. However, it’s uncertain whether he’ll be joining the NBA anytime soon, a late 1st/early 2nd seems a wise choice, but IF he goes to the NBA, watch out!

[King CaluchaParticipant]

Well… in that case, Mario Hezonja. He’s not getting minutes consistently and his attitude has been questioned before, but he can definitely play. However, it’s uncertain whether he’ll be joining the NBA anytime soon, a late 1st/early 2nd seems a wise choice, but IF he goes to the NBA, watch out!

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

 the only player man enough to want to allow fighting is International.  American players are now the ones that are considered soft, never thought i would see it.

 

 

 

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

 the only player man enough to want to allow fighting is International.  American players are now the ones that are considered soft, never thought i would see it.

 

 

 

[King CaluchaParticipant]

I don’t want to sound apologetic with the fighting, but it definitely comes from a soccer culture. I’m Southamerican and a good fight is always seen as good entertainment in a soccer match (when it’s not too big) because it shows tough competitiveness. If you don’t believe me, ask the english lol

[King CaluchaParticipant]

I don’t want to sound apologetic with the fighting, but it definitely comes from a soccer culture. I’m Southamerican and a good fight is always seen as good entertainment in a soccer match (when it’s not too big) because it shows tough competitiveness. If you don’t believe me, ask the english lol

[tbest23Participant]

Well if that’s the case then Kobe was born in Italy so…Hibbert can’t play for the USA team but that dude can ball a bit. I personally don’t give a rip where their mom dropped calf. Can they ball or not!? That’s all that matters to me.

[tbest23Participant]

Well if that’s the case then Kobe was born in Italy so…Hibbert can’t play for the USA team but that dude can ball a bit. I personally don’t give a rip where their mom dropped calf. Can they ball or not!? That’s all that matters to me.

[kngojcParticipant]

 For christ sakes guys, why is it so absurdly bad to say where they’re born isn’t where they’re molded? If I’m born in Spain, but spend all my time playing in the US, yes I would have spanish nationality, but I’d be a product of American basketball. High school, AAU, and college is where a player is groomed into the player they become, not where their mother gave birth.

[European BasketballerParticipant]

That’s funny….because every single time an American NBA fan mentions Sarunas Jasikevicius, they say he is a "European player that could not handle the level and athleticism of the NBA, and that he is a European player that failed to make it in the NBA"………

So strange, because according to you, he’s an AMERICAN PLAYER.

It’s odd, because I’ve never heard anyone call guys like,

Sarunas Jasikevicius

Linas Kleiza

Rik Smits

Detlef Schrempf

etc., etc., etc, and many other such examples as, "American players", but according to you, they are all Americans.

[European BasketballerParticipant]

That’s funny….because every single time an American NBA fan mentions Sarunas Jasikevicius, they say he is a "European player that could not handle the level and athleticism of the NBA, and that he is a European player that failed to make it in the NBA"………

So strange, because according to you, he’s an AMERICAN PLAYER.

It’s odd, because I’ve never heard anyone call guys like,

Sarunas Jasikevicius

Linas Kleiza

Rik Smits

Detlef Schrempf

etc., etc., etc, and many other such examples as, "American players", but according to you, they are all Americans.

[European BasketballerParticipant]

Also, no one is saying that where you are born solely determines your nationality. That’s absolutey and absurd and ridiculous claim for anyone to make. And anyone that does make such a claim is obviously ignorant, idiotic, uneducated, at the least xenophobic, and very probably also is racist.

I don’t think anyone here was saying anything ludicrous like that at all. And such claims as that are absolutely ludicrous.

But it is equally ludicrous to claim that playing NCAA or high school basketball in the USA makes you an American. And just because the NBA claims that and ESPN claims that, on draft night, that when a player is drafted by the NBA, that no matter what, if he played in America in NCAA, he is "American" and not international…..that’s absolutely absurd and ridiculous.

Just because the NBA and ESPN claims that makes no difference. It’s absolutely beyond absurd and frankly, it’s extremely xenophobic, and at the very least, it’s very close to being outright racist as hell.

For Americans and NBA fans in general to actually follow that the NBA and ESPN claim such an absurd and ridiculous thing is absolutely appalling and shocking.

Did Branding Jennings become Italian because he playing in Italy prior to being drafted?

That’s what the NBA and ESPN are claiming for every non American player that plays in NCAA. It’s unbelievably absurd, and do NOT spread around such absurditity yourself, like you are clearly doing here.

And you KNOW this is NOT true. Because NBA fand and Americans turn around and on the other hand universally call players like Jasikevicius "Lithuanian" or "European"…

Or Marc Gasol, "Spanish", or "European"……..

OK……….but according to your own defintion, and claim, they must be Americans….

And then you will argue and argue and argue and argue about it that a current player in the draft is "American", or such ans such was "developed in America"…..

But all the while not even realizing, there are bunches of players you call "European" that would also be "Americans" then………

It’s absolutely ABSURD and even to the point of RACIST AS HELL to claim that non Americans are "Americans" simply because they played in NCAA or high school in USA or whatever.

JUST STOP IT.

Otherwise, you better start claiming EVERY such player American and you better start acknowledging guys like Jennings as Italian. And you better damn well hope they don’t put junior high in there, because then Kobe is officially Italian also.

It’s just absolutely INSANE to be making such claims and you klnow it.

That’s why NO ONE EVER calls Marc Gasol American, or Linas Kleiza American, or etc,, even though they are American under these SAME definitions you are claiming.

So just DROP THE BULLSHIT.

[GrandmamaParticipant]

 Life not improving yet???  Still taking out all that anger on a basketball forum I see…. Keep your head up

[GrandmamaParticipant]

 Life not improving yet???  Still taking out all that anger on a basketball forum I see…. Keep your head up

[kngojcParticipant]

 Hey guess what? There’s also a difference in the nationality they lay claim for. If they were raised playing US ball, but play for their national team, then we’ll consider them that. I’d like to hear your logic as to calling out random people you don’t know on the internet racist, xenophobic, etc. BECAUSE MY BEST FRIEND IS EUROPEAN SO THERE’S NO WAY I CAN BE RACIST! lol. In case you couldn’t catch the dripping sarcasm, I’m mocking you. Cool off dude. You’re arguments are going nowhere in a hurry. Especially when you call anyone and everyone that has a different view than yours wrong and stupid. In fact, there’s a fancy word for that… Bigotry? Shut the hell up and just talk about ball, not how Euro players are getting shafted because some of them can’t make the cut to play in the NBA. 

[kngojcParticipant]

 Hey guess what? There’s also a difference in the nationality they lay claim for. If they were raised playing US ball, but play for their national team, then we’ll consider them that. I’d like to hear your logic as to calling out random people you don’t know on the internet racist, xenophobic, etc. BECAUSE MY BEST FRIEND IS EUROPEAN SO THERE’S NO WAY I CAN BE RACIST! lol. In case you couldn’t catch the dripping sarcasm, I’m mocking you. Cool off dude. You’re arguments are going nowhere in a hurry. Especially when you call anyone and everyone that has a different view than yours wrong and stupid. In fact, there’s a fancy word for that… Bigotry? Shut the hell up and just talk about ball, not how Euro players are getting shafted because some of them can’t make the cut to play in the NBA. 

[European BasketballerParticipant]

Also, no one is saying that where you are born solely determines your nationality. That’s absolutey and absurd and ridiculous claim for anyone to make. And anyone that does make such a claim is obviously ignorant, idiotic, uneducated, at the least xenophobic, and very probably also is racist.

I don’t think anyone here was saying anything ludicrous like that at all. And such claims as that are absolutely ludicrous.

But it is equally ludicrous to claim that playing NCAA or high school basketball in the USA makes you an American. And just because the NBA claims that and ESPN claims that, on draft night, that when a player is drafted by the NBA, that no matter what, if he played in America in NCAA, he is "American" and not international…..that’s absolutely absurd and ridiculous.

Just because the NBA and ESPN claims that makes no difference. It’s absolutely beyond absurd and frankly, it’s extremely xenophobic, and at the very least, it’s very close to being outright racist as hell.

For Americans and NBA fans in general to actually follow that the NBA and ESPN claim such an absurd and ridiculous thing is absolutely appalling and shocking.

Did Branding Jennings become Italian because he playing in Italy prior to being drafted?

That’s what the NBA and ESPN are claiming for every non American player that plays in NCAA. It’s unbelievably absurd, and do NOT spread around such absurditity yourself, like you are clearly doing here.

And you KNOW this is NOT true. Because NBA fand and Americans turn around and on the other hand universally call players like Jasikevicius "Lithuanian" or "European"…

Or Marc Gasol, "Spanish", or "European"……..

OK……….but according to your own defintion, and claim, they must be Americans….

And then you will argue and argue and argue and argue about it that a current player in the draft is "American", or such ans such was "developed in America"…..

But all the while not even realizing, there are bunches of players you call "European" that would also be "Americans" then………

It’s absolutely ABSURD and even to the point of RACIST AS HELL to claim that non Americans are "Americans" simply because they played in NCAA or high school in USA or whatever.

JUST STOP IT.

Otherwise, you better start claiming EVERY such player American and you better start acknowledging guys like Jennings as Italian. And you better damn well hope they don’t put junior high in there, because then Kobe is officially Italian also.

It’s just absolutely INSANE to be making such claims and you klnow it.

That’s why NO ONE EVER calls Marc Gasol American, or Linas Kleiza American, or etc,, even though they are American under these SAME definitions you are claiming.

So just DROP THE BULLSHIT.

[kngojcParticipant]

 For christ sakes guys, why is it so absurdly bad to say where they’re born isn’t where they’re molded? If I’m born in Spain, but spend all my time playing in the US, yes I would have spanish nationality, but I’d be a product of American basketball. High school, AAU, and college is where a player is groomed into the player they become, not where their mother gave birth.

[IhateusernamesParticipant]

 @European Basketball. I Happen to know Tony’s brothers (who are from Chicago) and his father (who is from Chicago), so you cant fall back on your crutch of calling every american who doesnt acknowledge Europeans as the greatest thing to grace the Earth as racist. 

 

I was only half joking when I made the statement, but Tony Parker will tell you himself that he is more American that French @$$hole

 

 

[IhateusernamesParticipant]

 @European Basketball. I Happen to know Tony’s brothers (who are from Chicago) and his father (who is from Chicago), so you cant fall back on your crutch of calling every american who doesnt acknowledge Europeans as the greatest thing to grace the Earth as racist. 

 

I was only half joking when I made the statement, but Tony Parker will tell you himself that he is more American that French @$$hole

 

 

[IhateusernamesParticipant]

 -2688 points and climbing

[IhateusernamesParticipant]

 -2688 points and climbing

[Author]

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