[jonus grumbyParticipant]

I realize nothing is guaranteed and just because Cleveland gets Love does not mean Cleveland will win a title.  I keep seeing people say that Cleveland can not give up Wiggins because he will be an all star in a couple years.  OK we don’t know but let’s assume that Wiggins becomes an all star.  We don’t know how players will develop but I will even go a step further and let’s say that in 10 years people are saying that he is a potential HOF player.  So Wiggins becomes a great player.

How good does Cleveland need to be with Love for a potential trade (giving up Wiggins to get Love) to be a win for Cleveland?  I can see a big 3 of LeBron, Love and Irving being as good or better then the big 3 in Miami were 4 years ago:

LeBron 2014 > LeBron 2010

Love > Bosh

Wade > Irving

rest of team??  I could see Cleveland > Miami

So in your opinion what would you consider a win for Cleveland giving up Wiggins knowing that Cleveland has won 0 NBA titles.  To me if Cleveland does what Miami did it is a HUGE win for Cleveland.  4 NBA finals and 2 titles regardless of what Wiggins becomes is a no brainer for me.  Titles matter so even 2 titles with a couple of losses in the eastern conference finals would be a win.  Of course 0 titles is a HUGE loss. 

What would your break even or win for Cleveland be?

[juves4783Participant]

to me, i think the basis should be…if we bring kevin love in, can we win a championship next year and is love realistacally better than the free agents in 2015?  here’s my quick thought process on this.  if they hold off on love and wait it out til 2015 offseason, there are a lot of frontcourt options like lamarcus aldridge, marc gasol, brook lopez, al jefferson and paul milsap that are unrestricted free agents or have player options.  to me, it’s more of a win-win if they could pull in a guy like marc gasol and keep everyone.  

[MorseWillParticipant]

Agree with this, if it takes Wiggins to get love then I would be inclined to hold onto Wiggins and lure one of the big free-agents just one summer away

[MorseWillParticipant]

Agree with this, if it takes Wiggins to get love then I would be inclined to hold onto Wiggins and lure one of the big free-agents just one summer away

[phila9012Participant]

 The cavs would have to gut their roster to get max room to sign any of them. Getting Love makes the most sense because either way you will have to get rid of players and most players don’t want to play in Cleveland. Lebron learned that the first time when he tried to get bosh or wade to join him and most recently learned it when Carmelo said he would never play there. They should be happy Kevin Love wants to play there. He is leaving Minnesota because the mananagement sucks, he seems to care about winning and doesn’t seem to care where he would do that which is good for cleveland.

[phila9012Participant]

 The cavs would have to gut their roster to get max room to sign any of them. Getting Love makes the most sense because either way you will have to get rid of players and most players don’t want to play in Cleveland. Lebron learned that the first time when he tried to get bosh or wade to join him and most recently learned it when Carmelo said he would never play there. They should be happy Kevin Love wants to play there. He is leaving Minnesota because the mananagement sucks, he seems to care about winning and doesn’t seem to care where he would do that which is good for cleveland.

[juves4783Participant]

to me, i think the basis should be…if we bring kevin love in, can we win a championship next year and is love realistacally better than the free agents in 2015?  here’s my quick thought process on this.  if they hold off on love and wait it out til 2015 offseason, there are a lot of frontcourt options like lamarcus aldridge, marc gasol, brook lopez, al jefferson and paul milsap that are unrestricted free agents or have player options.  to me, it’s more of a win-win if they could pull in a guy like marc gasol and keep everyone.  

[IIwIIParticipant]

It will take Cleveland a year to learn how to play together plus there are advantages to having lower expections than a championship.  Spend a year (or at least a couple of months) figuring out exactly what cleveland has is the best course of action, imo.  Lebron knows the heat were not gong to win a chamipionship…he will be patient.

[IIwIIParticipant]

It will take Cleveland a year to learn how to play together plus there are advantages to having lower expections than a championship.  Spend a year (or at least a couple of months) figuring out exactly what cleveland has is the best course of action, imo.  Lebron knows the heat were not gong to win a chamipionship…he will be patient.

[JCliff24Participant]

 In Lebron’s 2nd season he averaged 27.2ppg, 7.4rpg, 7.2apg, 2.2spg his FG% Jumped 5.5% and his 3pt % jumped 6.1% from the previous season. With that being said Wiggins isnt Lebron but the point im trying to make is sometimes, some of these young stars don’t take years and years to blossom.

Everyone is talking about how Cleveland can win now if they get Love, like its an automatic lock. It takes time to build chemistry. Look at the big 3 their first year, they didnt win a title. 

If the Cavaliers get rid of Wiggins before October/February I truly feel they didnt do enough due dilligence when it comes to seeing the path this young gun will take. The other issue I have is who the hell is going to play defense? 

You know who was 3rd in the league in scoring and lead the Eastern Conference? MINNESOTA. How’d that work out for them? I’m very uneasy about dishing Wiggins too soon. 

[JCliff24Participant]

 In Lebron’s 2nd season he averaged 27.2ppg, 7.4rpg, 7.2apg, 2.2spg his FG% Jumped 5.5% and his 3pt % jumped 6.1% from the previous season. With that being said Wiggins isnt Lebron but the point im trying to make is sometimes, some of these young stars don’t take years and years to blossom.

Everyone is talking about how Cleveland can win now if they get Love, like its an automatic lock. It takes time to build chemistry. Look at the big 3 their first year, they didnt win a title. 

If the Cavaliers get rid of Wiggins before October/February I truly feel they didnt do enough due dilligence when it comes to seeing the path this young gun will take. The other issue I have is who the hell is going to play defense? 

You know who was 3rd in the league in scoring and lead the Eastern Conference? MINNESOTA. How’d that work out for them? I’m very uneasy about dishing Wiggins too soon. 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

LeBron didn’t win anything until he moved to the 4 spot.  Those Miami teams took off when they put LeBron at the 4, and Bosh at the stretch five.  Shane Battier was also a good defender who helped out LeBron on the other end of the court. 

I am looking at the Cavs now, and I think their BEST lineup would be Irving and Waiters in the backcourt, Wiggins, and LeBron at forward, and Andy V at center. 

If the Cavs get Kevin Love but LOSE Wiggins then they have a less athletic guy in Love at the 4 who isn’t that good at defense.  Yeah, he can rebound but so can Andy V (or TT).  Then they lose Wiggins’ athleticism, explosiveness and defense on the wings. 

And, with Kyrie Irving and LeBron dominating the ball so much, then does Kevin Love just turn into a glorified 3 point shooter?  With Andy V and LeBron on the front line, then Love’s inflated rebounding numbers might go down.

AND, you would trade Wiggins AND OTHER GUYS for Love.  Like Bennett or TT and picks.  That would be a lot to give up…

Can Kevin Love guard Pau on the Bulls?  Can he guard Tim Duncan?  Or Serge Ibaka?  Now, wouldn’t you rather have Wiggins to throw at Kawhi Leonard?  Or Wiggins to help out LeBron on the Durant/Westbrook tag team?

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

LeBron didn’t win anything until he moved to the 4 spot.  Those Miami teams took off when they put LeBron at the 4, and Bosh at the stretch five.  Shane Battier was also a good defender who helped out LeBron on the other end of the court. 

I am looking at the Cavs now, and I think their BEST lineup would be Irving and Waiters in the backcourt, Wiggins, and LeBron at forward, and Andy V at center. 

If the Cavs get Kevin Love but LOSE Wiggins then they have a less athletic guy in Love at the 4 who isn’t that good at defense.  Yeah, he can rebound but so can Andy V (or TT).  Then they lose Wiggins’ athleticism, explosiveness and defense on the wings. 

And, with Kyrie Irving and LeBron dominating the ball so much, then does Kevin Love just turn into a glorified 3 point shooter?  With Andy V and LeBron on the front line, then Love’s inflated rebounding numbers might go down.

AND, you would trade Wiggins AND OTHER GUYS for Love.  Like Bennett or TT and picks.  That would be a lot to give up…

Can Kevin Love guard Pau on the Bulls?  Can he guard Tim Duncan?  Or Serge Ibaka?  Now, wouldn’t you rather have Wiggins to throw at Kawhi Leonard?  Or Wiggins to help out LeBron on the Durant/Westbrook tag team?

[JD’s_TimberpuppiesParticipant]

 
See this is where you are wrong, KLove in additon to being a great spot up 3 point shooter is the best offensive rebounder and one of the best at getting to the free throw line.  He scores so many points on garbage buckets, putbacks and souch and when he doesn’t he gets fouled.  He won’t need the ball in his hands much.  He also is a phenominal passser.  It makes too much sense for him to go here.

 

[JD’s_TimberpuppiesParticipant]

 
See this is where you are wrong, KLove in additon to being a great spot up 3 point shooter is the best offensive rebounder and one of the best at getting to the free throw line.  He scores so many points on garbage buckets, putbacks and souch and when he doesn’t he gets fouled.  He won’t need the ball in his hands much.  He also is a phenominal passser.  It makes too much sense for him to go here.

 

[220Participant]

 He isn’t wrong saying that Love isn’t a great defender and struggles defending many of the top power forwards. That being said you are right to say Love is outstanding on the offensive end and on the boards. 

[220Participant]

 He isn’t wrong saying that Love isn’t a great defender and struggles defending many of the top power forwards. That being said you are right to say Love is outstanding on the offensive end and on the boards. 

[JD’s_TimberpuppiesParticipant]

 My point was that Kevin Love is a perfect fit with 2 stars who are ball dominant.  He doesn’t need many touches to get his.  Knocking down open threes and cleaning up the trash underneath while getting to the line a ton.

[JD’s_TimberpuppiesParticipant]

 My point was that Kevin Love is a perfect fit with 2 stars who are ball dominant.  He doesn’t need many touches to get his.  Knocking down open threes and cleaning up the trash underneath while getting to the line a ton.

[JD’s_TimberpuppiesParticipant]

 I’m a Wolves fan…But in all seriousness they gotta do this.  Can’t sit around and wait.  If they get Love they are primed to make a run for the next five years.  Irving is better than Wade and Love is better than Bosh.  Factor in that their other players are drastically better than the Heat they have to get this done.

[JD’s_TimberpuppiesParticipant]

 I’m a Wolves fan…But in all seriousness they gotta do this.  Can’t sit around and wait.  If they get Love they are primed to make a run for the next five years.  Irving is better than Wade and Love is better than Bosh.  Factor in that their other players are drastically better than the Heat they have to get this done.

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

 Wiggins makes 5 million dollars and Love makes 15. The Cavs have to send out at least 10 to 13 million in salary to take on 15 as they are basically at the soft cap.

I persnally think nothing is hapening now because it can’t. The Cavs would have to give up Varejao or one of the other young guys like Waiters, Benett or Thopson just to make the money work. I think if it were just Wiggins and picks it would already be done (which I don’t condone BTW, I think). The Cavs currently couldn’t sweeten the deal by taking back some of Minny’s unwanted salary in guys like Budinger (5 million per season 2 years), Berea (4.5 expiring) and Miller (about 7 mps for 3 years!).

Griffin has to do some Morey style cap vodoo for the Cavs to bring in salary in a trade while giving up significantly less money.

I believe training camp is important for continuity and that teams that make big mid season deals rarely have cohesion by the playoffs. Even with that being the case all the Cavs young players will be more valued by mid season than they are now because so far they never played with Lebron James. Trade them then.

I say sign Ray Allen, Ekpe Udoh, Greg Oden and play basketball.

I wonder in 2004 when Melo, Wade and Bosh were prospects with obvios potential like Wiggins would anyone have traded him for a year of KG, Duncan or Dirk? 

 

 

 

 

  

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

 Wiggins makes 5 million dollars and Love makes 15. The Cavs have to send out at least 10 to 13 million in salary to take on 15 as they are basically at the soft cap.

I persnally think nothing is hapening now because it can’t. The Cavs would have to give up Varejao or one of the other young guys like Waiters, Benett or Thopson just to make the money work. I think if it were just Wiggins and picks it would already be done (which I don’t condone BTW, I think). The Cavs currently couldn’t sweeten the deal by taking back some of Minny’s unwanted salary in guys like Budinger (5 million per season 2 years), Berea (4.5 expiring) and Miller (about 7 mps for 3 years!).

Griffin has to do some Morey style cap vodoo for the Cavs to bring in salary in a trade while giving up significantly less money.

I believe training camp is important for continuity and that teams that make big mid season deals rarely have cohesion by the playoffs. Even with that being the case all the Cavs young players will be more valued by mid season than they are now because so far they never played with Lebron James. Trade them then.

I say sign Ray Allen, Ekpe Udoh, Greg Oden and play basketball.

I wonder in 2004 when Melo, Wade and Bosh were prospects with obvios potential like Wiggins would anyone have traded him for a year of KG, Duncan or Dirk? 

 

 

 

 

  

[ZarathustraParticipant]

 If the Cavs get Love it’s "win now mode" and all the pressure that comes with it.If they hold on to Wiggins they have a transition year as Lebron insinuated,wait for Love or other free agents in 2015 and if possible keeping Wiggins on the team.Then they can go "win now mode",also the perspective of Lebron mentoring Wiggins is scary !

[ZarathustraParticipant]

 If the Cavs get Love it’s "win now mode" and all the pressure that comes with it.If they hold on to Wiggins they have a transition year as Lebron insinuated,wait for Love or other free agents in 2015 and if possible keeping Wiggins on the team.Then they can go "win now mode",also the perspective of Lebron mentoring Wiggins is scary !

[drpg913Participant]

 The Lebron mentoring Wiggins is a joke. Who has Lebron ever mentored? Not just Lebron who did Kobe Mentor, who did Shaq mentor who did A.I mentor? Players in their primes don’t mentor other players. Too many egos are involved. Especially since they are at 2 differentpoints in their lives. It’s kid of stupid to think that Lebron mentoring Wiggins is a given.

[drpg913Participant]

 The Lebron mentoring Wiggins is a joke. Who has Lebron ever mentored? Not just Lebron who did Kobe Mentor, who did Shaq mentor who did A.I mentor? Players in their primes don’t mentor other players. Too many egos are involved. Especially since they are at 2 differentpoints in their lives. It’s kid of stupid to think that Lebron mentoring Wiggins is a given.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

The Cavs should have gone after Pau Gasol.  PERFECT fit with LeBron, Wiggins, Irving, and the other guys.  Great low post scorer, and can also shoot from about 15 feet.  Awesome big man passer.  Not much of a defender but he is a 7 footer who can rebound and block shots.  They could use him some at center or go with a twin towers lineup with Pau and Andy V.

Right now, the Cavs best lineup would be LeBron at the 4, a great, dynamic backcourt, a rebounding, defensive center in the middle (Andy V), an athletic wing (Mike Miller), and a shooter at the last position (Mike Miller or Anthony Bennett, or even James Jones). 

A team with LeBron and Andy V up front doesn’t need an extra rebounder.  TT can board, as can Wiggins.  Mike Miller is also decent on the boards.  Anthony Bennett should improve on his rookie year numbers.

This current Cavs team with usage poster boy LeBron James and also Kyrie Irving might turn Kevin Love into a glorified spot up 3 point shooter.  But, isn’t that why they signed Mike Miller?

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

The Cavs should have gone after Pau Gasol.  PERFECT fit with LeBron, Wiggins, Irving, and the other guys.  Great low post scorer, and can also shoot from about 15 feet.  Awesome big man passer.  Not much of a defender but he is a 7 footer who can rebound and block shots.  They could use him some at center or go with a twin towers lineup with Pau and Andy V.

Right now, the Cavs best lineup would be LeBron at the 4, a great, dynamic backcourt, a rebounding, defensive center in the middle (Andy V), an athletic wing (Mike Miller), and a shooter at the last position (Mike Miller or Anthony Bennett, or even James Jones). 

A team with LeBron and Andy V up front doesn’t need an extra rebounder.  TT can board, as can Wiggins.  Mike Miller is also decent on the boards.  Anthony Bennett should improve on his rookie year numbers.

This current Cavs team with usage poster boy LeBron James and also Kyrie Irving might turn Kevin Love into a glorified spot up 3 point shooter.  But, isn’t that why they signed Mike Miller?

 

[joecheck88Participant]

 In your opinion, when is it OK to trade Wiggins for Love? NEVER.

The ability right now of Wiggins and Lebron on defense with Andy V is a top 5 defense and that’ll rub off on guys like Waiters, Kyrie and Bennett to try harder. Their offense is already good enough to win a championship. Why bring in more? Love isn’t a great defender and while I think his rebounding make it a little more reasonable, I think they aren’t much better offensively with Love. While defensively they’d be much worse off. I like Love but not for Wiggins. 

Ill even make a bold statement, Wiggins will be the ROY if he plays the entire year in Cleveland. I think he’ll average 14 and 5 on 43%FG and 33%3. These will be lower than Parker but Lebron and Wiggins defense will have critics raving as Cleveland wins 55 games and the East. 

 

Im

moy rushing I to it and trading Wiggins. I’m giving it the time it needs to grow into the special team it is destined to be. 

[joecheck88Participant]

 In your opinion, when is it OK to trade Wiggins for Love? NEVER.

The ability right now of Wiggins and Lebron on defense with Andy V is a top 5 defense and that’ll rub off on guys like Waiters, Kyrie and Bennett to try harder. Their offense is already good enough to win a championship. Why bring in more? Love isn’t a great defender and while I think his rebounding make it a little more reasonable, I think they aren’t much better offensively with Love. While defensively they’d be much worse off. I like Love but not for Wiggins. 

Ill even make a bold statement, Wiggins will be the ROY if he plays the entire year in Cleveland. I think he’ll average 14 and 5 on 43%FG and 33%3. These will be lower than Parker but Lebron and Wiggins defense will have critics raving as Cleveland wins 55 games and the East. 

 

Im

moy rushing I to it and trading Wiggins. I’m giving it the time it needs to grow into the special team it is destined to be. 

[Author]

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