[princejamesParticipant]

Early 2000s NBA era great players include:

Point Guards:

Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury, Baron Davis, Steve Francis, Jason Williams, Mike Bibby, Gilbert Arenas, Tony Parker, Chauncy Billups, Bobby Jackson, Jason Terry

Shooting Guards:

Kobe Bryant, Vince Carter, Tracy Mcgrady, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Jerry Stackhouse, Latrell Sprewell, Allen Houston, Michael Finley, Emmanuel Ginobli, Richard Hamilton, Larry Hughes, Jason Richardson, Cuttino Mobley, Joe Johnson, Jamaal Crawford, Michael Redd, Doug Christi

Small Forwards:

Grant Hill, Big Dog Glenn Robinson, Jamaal Mashburn, Shawn Marion, Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, Coron Butler, Andrei Kirilenko, Lamar Odom, Corey Magetti, Peja Stojaković, Wally Szczerbiak

Power Forwards:

Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Webber, Rasheed Wallace, Paul Gasol, Elton Brand, Antwan Jaminson, Amare Stoudemire, Kenyon Martin, Antonio Mcdyess, Antonio Davis, Anthony Mason

Centers

Shaquille Oniel, Yao Ming, Dikembe Mutombo, Jermaine Oniel, Marcus Camby, Ben Wallace, Zydrunas Ilgaskus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hype Machine]

 I think a lot of people are bored by the 3pt shooting, latest crop of superteams and lack of midrange and post games.

The NBA has a highly commercial sheen now that obviously brings in the bucks. But fans of actual basketball are a bit tired of whats happening in the league in 2016/2017.

[Robb_CParticipant]

Its not a mans league anymore..When Draymond Green is considered a league tough guy, you know the leagues gone soft..

 

 

[Hype Machine]

 Lol.

Imagine Charles Oakley on the next possession if Draymond was to kick his teammate in the junk.

Even stars like DrJ, Jordan, Kareem all got in fistfights.

Kareem straight cold-clocked some rookie in an act of unprovoked aggression. 

Im not lobbying for fistfights…but there needs to be an element of physical intimidation in the sport.

[holefillers1Participant]

 Rick Mahorn 

[mcbaileyParticipant]

 I hesitate when I agree with you, because of your shtick, but I just do. I can’t stand watching a game where either the ball gets passed around the 3 point line until someone gets the least contested shot, or someone like Kevin Durant just dribbles up and shoots a contested jumper without passing it once.

 

I find this offense-first mentality more boring than the way it used to be, particularly in the 90’s, and yet it’s still my favorite sport. I’d probably watch a Sixers/Bucks game over the Super Bowl if I had to choose.

 

It could just be a lot better sometimes.

 

 

 

 

[EspressoParticipant]

 Lmao… as a hardcore NBA fan, I honestly can’t think of a better game to watch than sixers and bucks…. maybe Cavs vs warriors, sixers vs wolves, or bucks vs wolves, that’s it.

Giannis is one of my favorite players.

I have a thing for scrubby teams with super potential. That’s why I considered the Warriors one of my favorite teams when Klay was a rookie, because I knew both Klay and Curry would be a dynamic backcourt… I have moved on now…

 

 

 

[princejamesParticipant]

This new era of basketball is overrated, the yoing generation ain’t familiar with the great players that played in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s. This era doesn’t have truely sklled and physical centers that can dominate in the paint, there is no true point guards who can generate a lot points for their team with-out shooting the ball 20 times or more, great players don’t want to compete against each other no more, they want to play with each other, which makes no sense to me, because back in the day, great competition forced talented players to acheive greatness so they could compete against the great players they were playing against. There is no elite shooting guards in the league anymore who can score at an elite level, play great defense, and create offense for others. Then you have so called power forwards that don’t want to battle in the paint, they want to be so called stretch 4s that shoot jumpers and play on the perimeter. The new era basketball is overrated and filled with players that would just be solid players in the 80s, 90s, or early 2000s

 

 

 

 

 

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

I know he’s on Cleveland but Kevin Love is getting voted an All-Star?  Dirk knew he sucked on Defense but he still tried.  Kevin Love is out there flexing his biceps like a loser, a fraud, he’s not tough.

Elite Shooting Guards:  CJ Mccollum is kind of a throwback and Harden is really impressive.  But yeah, 6’6”+ and powerful with every skill doesn’t happen anymore.  Watching Kobe in that final game, be it scripted or not, was like watching a last great sitcom episode that you can’t see anymore.  The guy was amazing for his size.

True PG + Elite Bigs:  Sorry but I gotta say it.  I really think you’re gonna see that again in Philly.  Ben Simmons makes everyone on the court better, and his summer league passing was ridiculous.  He will be able to get to spots on courts and his vision is unreal.  He has a desire to be great.  And then Embiid shows that calm in the storm but also the ability to play strong against all the elite bigs in the league and step up to the challenge.  The Sixers are going to be something to watch in two years.  Simmons also didn’t back down from a big guy like a Bobby Portis.  You’re going to have special competitiveness from them soon.  

 

  

[princejamesParticipant]

It’s so many talented old school players that would have the opportunity to be the best player in today’s overrated new era NBA and be MVP candidates every year – Like: Michael "Sugar" Ray Richardson, Bernard King, Fat Lever, Dominque Wilkins, Reggie Theus, World B. Free, Sleepy Floyd, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, Nick Van Exel, Mitch Richmond, Rod Strickland, etc – the list would be very long…..

[CynthiaParticipant]

I miss the dominating post play. At first it was nice to see all these 3’s going down, but now everyone does it, in fact if you can’t hit a 3 now you’re pretty much worthless in the current meta. I just don’t enjoy watching teams have a 3pt battle that’s what All-Star weekend is for. Give me some tough gritty fighting in the post. I miss slashers too, isn’t many true wing slashers anymore.

I still love the game, but I’m definitely finding myself losing interest slowly over the past couple of years.

 

[SubZeroParticipant]

I’m the same way, which was why I loved watching the Grizzlies come back against the Warriors so much. Golden State was just chucking 3s and missing, while almost every play down the stretch, at some point Memphis got the ball to ZBo in the post against KD. And most of their big shots were midrange and in, although Troy Daniels hit some very timely 3s

[warson24]

I understand your point of the new era basketball being overrated. But compared to early 2000?
In my eyes that era was the nadir of the NBA… Only the Spurs played real team basketball and otherside of San Antonio only the Lakers won title beacuse they had two of the greatest players (outside of Kobe and Shaq they had only Adam Morrisons and Devean Georges – horrible to remember).
The league was centered around streetball-like one and one players, who actually can’t shoot. The era of under 40% shooting 30 point per game players… Full of Marburys (celebrated All star, who made every team worse he played for). No team defenses.
There is a reason that was the only era when Team USA was unable to even reach the Finals in any world contest.
You’re glorifying an era, whose best players trailed Puerto Rico by 30 at halftime… That’s says something about early 2000s NBA and the mentality of those players.

 

 

[ChoppyParticipant]

Detroit Pistons would have to disagree with your statement that the spurs were the only squad to play "real team basketball". Won with no true offensive ‘superstars’. 

[jaysmith1987Participant]

 You must be trolling. The early 2000s was probably the worst basketball ever. Lowest shooting percentages.  Tracy Mcgrady is going to the hall of fame despite his career ending early with injuries. In the early 2000s a 45 percent field goal percentage.  Guys we’re sneaking into the NBA based of high school hype. Without the one and done rule guys like Austin Rivers Could have gone number 1. Right now even the big men can shoot.  There is so many players today that are just freaks when it comes to basketball it’s fun to watch. If you think this error is bad u must have loved poor shooting and guys like Ricky Davis averaging 20 while shooting 42 percent and wondering why the head coach doesn’t bench them.  Team ball is way better now.  I think most people hate this error just because players exercise there right to go where they feel instead of the teams dictating them like private property.

[Robb_CParticipant]

The League was a lot more physical and played at a slower pace during those days.. It resulted in lower FG percentages..

Recently, College Basketball made more of an effort to target fouls on defense and actually made it easier for offenses to operate. The result more efficent offenses and players scoring more effectively..  Guys like Markelle Fultz taking advantage of this fact.

[D7H7NParticipant]

It’s low percentage because teams didn’t play much motion on offense. It’s always halfcourt set a screen to get a player on the low block or on the wing to go iso. Not much pick and roll either.

The rise of analytics and D’antoni’s Phoenix team has done a lot to help structure more team oriented offense to find open shooters via motion and the pick and roll.

 

[Robb_CParticipant]

 BS.. I really dont want to get into basketball theory.. but Lawerence Frank, Jerry Sloan etc etc were pushed out of jobs because they ran to much offense.. Right around when this Turbo Ball movement started..

Fact of the matter is slower pace= less points.. Less points equal lower PPG averages and that means less money.. 

Players wanted to play fast because its getting them paid..

[D7H7NParticipant]

 

open shots and layups = higher FG%

contested shots = lower FG%

Playing slow doesn’t mean lower FG%. Teams that play slow also tend to play isoball, that results in poor percentages. A good example today would be the Dallas Mavericks.

Utah is a team that plays incredibly slow but their FG% is quite high because they move the ball around. Very reminiscent of the Spurs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Robb_CParticipant]

 Analytics geeks crack me up, especially the ones who consider it the end all be all for evaluation.. Analytics still cant evaluate individuals fatigue level after playing defense and how that might effect a players FG percentage on the other end of the floor.. Have you ever given a considered thought that Tony Allen might be a better shooter if he wasnt such an intense defender? Players are playing defense for shorter periods of time due to shooting earlier into the clock, this has a huge effect on a players fatigue level.. 

Teams shooting better FG% has nothing to do with teams running better offenses compared to the early 00s.. Teams were just playing defense longer which resulted in lower FG percentage.

[Andrew1984Participant]

Is there seriously a post naming Bobby Jackson and Doug Christie that contends for the superiority of their era?

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 The early 2000s was the era I’m guessing a lot of the users on this forum grew up watching but it would be hard to argue it was the peak of professional basketball. There were some great individual players during that era for sure, but team play was probably at an all-time low from about 99 to about 2005 imo. 

It was a more physical league for sure but also an era of me-first attitudes and heavy isolation play, which frankly resulted in a lot of ugly basketball (games played at a snail’s pace with a lot of forced shots and scores in the 70s). The high school to NBA phenomenon was at its peak, which watered down the overall talent base as well and the scouting of foreign players was much less advanced.

It’s no coincidence that 2 of my favorite teams to watch from that era, the kings and suns, actually embraced a lot of the concepts that would become common in the modern NBA. While I have a lot of great memories from that time period, stylistically I’d much rather watch the NBA today as a whole.

 

 

[jabbar_medvedenkoParticipant]

I think that the SG position was a lot stronger back then, power forwards were also superior with multiple hall of famers and I like those centers better, mainly because of Shaq. This is a small ball era with a heavy emphasis on Point Guard play with small forwards also being better. All in all, I think the defense was better back then but offenses are more efficient today, which means that a case can be made for both sides.

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

Its pretty bad when the Nets are going back to back Finals from the East.  The Sixers team was also pretty awful.  They were overachievers, but they beat the Bucks and Raptors, and nobody remembers Glenn Robinson Sam Cassell and a young Ray Allen or Vince Carter to be stacked.  The East at that point was pretty awful.

The West was great with LAL, SAS, Portland and Sacramento.  Those 4 teams were amazing at that time.  In any Era you will have bad basketball and the NBA was pushing a post-Jordan era demigod celebrity face ballwhich was corny, searching too hard for a star.  But there were just like there always are, entertaining teams at the top, especially in the West.    

  

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 It’s easy to say that the league has changed for the worst and it used to be more entertaining and the post game is dead and all people do is shoot 3’s and yadayadayada.  

Sure the rule changes have perhaps accelerated the fact, but the game is changing because we live in the silicon era.  Us Computer Scientists are changing the world.  We provide people with data they didn’t know existed.  And to that end, the numbers say 3’s are better than 2’s.

So to those who still long for the post game.  I am sorry that you choose to back and support the inneficient brand of basketball.  But the fact is that those teams in the early 2000’s would get crushed by todays teams.  Outside of the Lakers, Kings, Spurs and Suns those teams are dinosaurs!

Some day there will be another philisophical switch, or maybe not?  As long as computers continue to give us the ability to analyze numbers in a way the human brain could never, we will continue to see the most efficient plays run over and over.

IMO one of the most intriguing parts to humans is their inability to accept change.  Some can, and usually thrive.  Most refuse change at every turn and I have never quite understood it.

 

 

 

 

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

you play to your roster.  just because its more efficient to shoot 3s, if you don’t have steph and klay or what cleveland has surrounded lebron with…

yet you have a plethora of bangers downlow, then don’t try to adjust your roster to play according to what some statsheet and the NBA rulebook says is the most efficient way to play, but use your bangers.

Your team is what it is, you have to play to its strength, and use that as a strategy to dominate the opposition.

Not every team has to play one way to win.  I still think a high percentage post point is more efficient than a quickdraw 3.

 

 

 

 

  

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Well sure you can think that a high % post play is more efficient than a quickdraw 3.  But what are your parameters?  You need to be more descriptive.  Is a dunk a better % shot than a 3 pointer.  Sure.  That much is obvious.  But, is an Okafor post up a better shot than a Tobias Harris corner 3?  No, maybe in a vaccum, but not over a full game.

You don’t need the most elite players or shooters for this philosophy to work.  You only need a system that creates elite shots.  Sure, it helps to have players like Klay and Steph but they aren’t the only players torching the league on 3’s anymore.  Just about every team is doing it.  League wide 3’s made and attempts are up.  They are rising every year. 

You play to your roster to some extent.  However, the smart teams don’t do that.  Smart teams are building teams around a sustained system.  You tweak the system a little bit here and there to accomodate certain players strengths, but the core principles should always apply.  Mid to low 30% 3 point shooters are more effective over a course of a game than even a 50% 2 point shooter.  

I guess the point I am trying to make is… yes you are correct, if you have bangers downlow… use your bangers.  Just don’t be upset when the other team scores 60 points off 3 pointers in a game and runs your team into the ground.  You’re making a case for a game that no longer exists.  I am making the case for the game in it’s current state.

This is a very interesting time because Embiid is the one player that can kind of turn this question on it’s head.  The obvious play for Philly is to surround him with a ton of shooters and play through him.  But that doesn’t mean that it will be the most successful.

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 Hopefully teams start implementing their OWN offenses and defenses not just D’Antoni Ball.

If you like contrasting styles then you would have liked the Grizzlies comeback against the Warriors the other night.  

The Grizz still pound it inside and play through bigs, and have an old school, smallish floor general but have also added some more shooters like Troy Daniels and Chandler Parsons.

I LOVE different styles.  I also like the up and coming teams or the sleeper teams. 

We have the TOP TWO now in the Cavs and Warriors but also the sleeper team like the Grizzlies (throwback to the Bad Boys Era complete with the size, depth, and rapidly aging small forwards).

The Spurs still do their own thing.  Rockets are playing Speed Ball on Steriods.  RUSSELLMANIA is a one-man wrecking crew…

I want to see the young up and comers like the Greek Freak Team (Bucks? haha just kidding I know who they are.  the Milwaukee Mokeski’s), Porzingas and a bunch of contracts, the New New Look Lakers, and the T Wolves.  BUT, I think they are all at least a year or two away… along with the Sixers.

I think the Spurs obviously peaked.  The Cavs and Warriors are peaking now, or they did last year, and the New Young Gun Teams have yet to reach their potential, so only a gimmicky Rockets team is peaking (well, James Harden is entering the apex of his prime).  The Thunder are a one man show, and the Grizzlies will either NEVER peak or peaked like 4 or 5 years ago and no one noticed…

Yeah, gimme some more centers, although Rudy Gobert, Embiid, KAT, and Porzingas are all bigs (REALLY bigs) with size, skill, and talent.

We need a Jordan.  Or, maybe not.  RUSSELLMANIA is balling out enough…

Greek Freak and Porzingas are as good as you are gonna get…

It’s probably a really good era if your team is doing well.  A not-so great era if your team is STRUGGLING.  Maybe not such a great era if you like to watch different brands of basketball…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 I miss 24 second possessions and hard fouls. I also miss the trash talking and chippyness 

[mowestenParticipant]

 I’ll be honest, I actually think the game is better right now and there are more good players. The league doesn’t really have many good centers right now, and that is probably the biggest difference. There were only a handful of great centers in the league in the early 2000s, probably more in the 90s. But there were also a lot of bad ones as well.

What I don’t much care for is eveyone giving each other a handjob before and after every game. Get a room.

[Bad DogParticipant]

 Um, no. I’m not a big fan of how the game is played now but it was almost unwatchable back in the early 00’s. After the lockout ended in 99, the games was played at the speed of death. It was nothing but 1 on 1 iso ball consisting of ball hogs dribbling out the shot clock and taking off balanced jumpers before it expired. It was the era of "me first, second, and third" street ball. If you’re looking for the best era of the NBA, I’d have to say the 80’s were the best due to the even distribution of talent among the teams and a fun mix of pace and physicality. Starting in the 90’s the pace started slowing down some but the game remained physical and was still fun to watch. However, from 99 to about 04 or 05 the game was pretty hard to watch. 

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