[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 A lot of the players from the 2005 NBA Draft have gone bad, like Deron and Granger with injuries and Bynum with whatever he has been doing for a few years, and there is Chris Paul at the top of his draft class.  But Paul does not win, maybe Bynum and Turiaf are the only ones with a ring, so if Bogut can get the Warriors to the championship does that make him a very large success and make the idea of him going first in the draft the right one?

If size wins in the NBA, and the Warriors do win this season with Bogut filling the paint, would the people who were with Milwaukee when the pick was made get credit for the choice?  

The stats say the Warriors are +17.5 per 100 possessions when Bogut is on the floor, that sounds impressive and Curry is +16.4.  Per minute, Bogut leads the Warriors in blocks and rebounds and is actually third in assists, and nearly everyone at the Warriors scores a lot more than Bogut but maybe that is a good thing with so many scorers on the court there.

It is an interesting question, about picking size in the drafts.  Of course, Bogut could get injured tomorrow but plenty of injury-prone centers have stayed healthy and won titles.    Does a championship mean Bogut has done enough to justify being the top pick, and would that ring mean more than Chris Paul’s stats?

A Warriors win would be because of the 2005 draft too.  D Lee was in that, the Warriors picked M Ellis late in it and used him to trade for Bogut.  Did Golden State also pick Chris Taft in that, not the worst second round pick because he had some fans back then.

Also, if other players from the draft did win NBA titles then go ahead and list them.  I must have missed some.

 

 

 

 

  

[arowsky205Participant]

Come on man. You’re telling me that Bogut being picked over Chris Paul would be justified if he was the third of fourth best player on one championship team? You can’t seriously tell me you’d rather have Bogut over Paul on your team at any point in either player’s career. It’s debatable wheter Paul is still the league’s best PG, but even if he isn’t anymore he still had the title for a good five years. I know that people are obsessed over championships defining careers, but let’s not overreact. Chris Paul is the clear best player from that draft and there’s no legitimate argument anyone could make against that. 

 

[arowsky205Participant]

Come on man. You’re telling me that Bogut being picked over Chris Paul would be justified if he was the third of fourth best player on one championship team? You can’t seriously tell me you’d rather have Bogut over Paul on your team at any point in either player’s career. It’s debatable wheter Paul is still the league’s best PG, but even if he isn’t anymore he still had the title for a good five years. I know that people are obsessed over championships defining careers, but let’s not overreact. Chris Paul is the clear best player from that draft and there’s no legitimate argument anyone could make against that. 

 

[trelos6Participant]

CP3

Deron Williams

Lee 

Ellis

Bogut

Bynum

Granger

Gortat

Bass

Ilyasova

Frye

Miles

Robinson

Felton

Marvin Williams

Green

Villanueva

[trelos6Participant]

CP3

Deron Williams

Lee 

Ellis

Bogut

Bynum

Granger

Gortat

Bass

Ilyasova

Frye

Miles

Robinson

Felton

Marvin Williams

Green

Villanueva

[Rip255]

Well the injuries killed him…especially that broken arm that took away his ability to shoot. Minus the injuries, I think he’d be as good as Mark Gasol. 

So injuries aside, I’d say he’d be #2 behind Chris Paul. But factoring them in I’d say the post above mine doing the re-draft is pretty accurate. 

 

[Rip255]

Well the injuries killed him…especially that broken arm that took away his ability to shoot. Minus the injuries, I think he’d be as good as Mark Gasol. 

So injuries aside, I’d say he’d be #2 behind Chris Paul. But factoring them in I’d say the post above mine doing the re-draft is pretty accurate. 

 

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

I would say Paul is definitely the best player from his class. Having said that, I kinda disagree with the two guys above me. I would say after Paul and Williams the best players have been Bynum (who once was the best offensive C in the league and almost the guy-to-guy for the Lakers, albeit for a short period), Bogut/Ellis, and Lee/Granger. However, I believe Ellis is in a perfect position to raise his profile and become the third-best player from his class.

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

I would say Paul is definitely the best player from his class. Having said that, I kinda disagree with the two guys above me. I would say after Paul and Williams the best players have been Bynum (who once was the best offensive C in the league and almost the guy-to-guy for the Lakers, albeit for a short period), Bogut/Ellis, and Lee/Granger. However, I believe Ellis is in a perfect position to raise his profile and become the third-best player from his class.

[benny15Participant]

im thinking if there was a re-draft without knowing how their career would go, Bogut would still go number 1. it was a time when almost no team had a true center and here was a traditional bigman who despelled any athletic concerns in the combine. he was already very good defensively and had great passing instincts, he just wasnt a scorer, but he definitely had the highest floor of every prospect in that draft. milwaukee was just gona go with him since theyve been relying on dan Gadzuric as their starting center,

it was the second pick that should have been easily chris paul. till this day, im shocked on why the hawks took another wingman when their young talent core was meant to be josh smith and josh chilldress and was using the likes of tyrone lue as the starting point or royal ivey when lue was injured, chris paul was the clear cut pick for them and they blew it big time. 

utah still would have traded with the blazers for the 3rd pick to get deron since portland had just invested a lotto pick on sebastian telfair the year before and had depth in every other position except shooting guard. 

it would have been the 4th pick with new orleans that would be an ideal spot for marvin williams i felt at the time. young wing man with excellent physical tools going to a team that needed a small forward for the future with rodney rogers being the starter the season leading up to the draft.they also just traded baron davis so felton could have been taken there but he was already considered a reach going 5th to charlote.

the bobcats though i think would have still taken Marvin Williams if he was still on the board due to his high upside and the fact that he was just part of the NCAA champs UNC as a freshman. i know their two best players were emeka okafor and gerald wallace but Williams would have been the dream pick in their situation. if he wasnt their, i think they would have taken felton for the same reasons they ended up doing so, UNC ties, local favorite, position of need and jordan wanted competitors and college winners. Gerald Green i think could have been a serious target but Jordan must not have liked his attitude with him not granting work-outs to places he dint want to be in.

Blazers taking utah’s pick at 6 would take martell webster all over again for the reasons ive stated earlier.

i think 7th would have been where Gerald Green would have been taken if he just didnt refuse them a work out and would have made clear he dint want to be there. they needed a small forward badly and Green was clearly the best prospect left on the board at the time. they took Villanueva who had a considerable upside as well but they already had their concerns since bosh just finishing a solid sophomore season building on his surprisingly well rookie year.

new york still would have gone at 8 with Frye since they knew what they were getting and isiah thomas had a good knack for drafting players. he also could have been seen as a fluid big to match well beside the burly mike sweetney. only other player i would have guessed isiah would consider is Danny Granger, but given that he had just acquired an in his physical prime Tim Thomas, i think it may have been what swayed him to go with the Arizona senior.

my warriors i think would still have gone with Ike Diago i feel given a chance to redraft at 9. we still hadnt hired don nelson as a our coach so the run and gun small ball offense full of perimeter players wasnt in effect still and our best low post option was our starting point guard at the time. Ike Diougo was supposed to be the post option offensively since Troy Murphy had established himself as a double-double machine, but one who would shoot 15 footers 8 out 10 times compared to playing in the low block.

the 10th pick belonging to the lakers got it right with Bynum who i felt was a reach pick at the time. they banked on his size, age and upside since they needed a high ceiling player. i think if they took a closer look at danny granger he could have been their guy, but they already had a young strong small forward in Caron Butler and Lamar Odom was the PF so Granger could have been seen as redundant. him comming out as a senior may have also raised questions on his upside in the league.

 

i know this order of players may not coincide on their rankings in the draft after what we know after a decade, but when im thinking re-draft, i put myself of what the gm and coaches of those teams would be thinking and how they make their pick without having a premanition of the future. i mean, did we honestly expect David Lee or Monta Ellis to be top 5 or 10 players of this draft? or that amir johnson would be better than 90% of the bigs taken ahead of him?

 

 

 

 

 

[benny15Participant]

im thinking if there was a re-draft without knowing how their career would go, Bogut would still go number 1. it was a time when almost no team had a true center and here was a traditional bigman who despelled any athletic concerns in the combine. he was already very good defensively and had great passing instincts, he just wasnt a scorer, but he definitely had the highest floor of every prospect in that draft. milwaukee was just gona go with him since theyve been relying on dan Gadzuric as their starting center,

it was the second pick that should have been easily chris paul. till this day, im shocked on why the hawks took another wingman when their young talent core was meant to be josh smith and josh chilldress and was using the likes of tyrone lue as the starting point or royal ivey when lue was injured, chris paul was the clear cut pick for them and they blew it big time. 

utah still would have traded with the blazers for the 3rd pick to get deron since portland had just invested a lotto pick on sebastian telfair the year before and had depth in every other position except shooting guard. 

it would have been the 4th pick with new orleans that would be an ideal spot for marvin williams i felt at the time. young wing man with excellent physical tools going to a team that needed a small forward for the future with rodney rogers being the starter the season leading up to the draft.they also just traded baron davis so felton could have been taken there but he was already considered a reach going 5th to charlote.

the bobcats though i think would have still taken Marvin Williams if he was still on the board due to his high upside and the fact that he was just part of the NCAA champs UNC as a freshman. i know their two best players were emeka okafor and gerald wallace but Williams would have been the dream pick in their situation. if he wasnt their, i think they would have taken felton for the same reasons they ended up doing so, UNC ties, local favorite, position of need and jordan wanted competitors and college winners. Gerald Green i think could have been a serious target but Jordan must not have liked his attitude with him not granting work-outs to places he dint want to be in.

Blazers taking utah’s pick at 6 would take martell webster all over again for the reasons ive stated earlier.

i think 7th would have been where Gerald Green would have been taken if he just didnt refuse them a work out and would have made clear he dint want to be there. they needed a small forward badly and Green was clearly the best prospect left on the board at the time. they took Villanueva who had a considerable upside as well but they already had their concerns since bosh just finishing a solid sophomore season building on his surprisingly well rookie year.

new york still would have gone at 8 with Frye since they knew what they were getting and isiah thomas had a good knack for drafting players. he also could have been seen as a fluid big to match well beside the burly mike sweetney. only other player i would have guessed isiah would consider is Danny Granger, but given that he had just acquired an in his physical prime Tim Thomas, i think it may have been what swayed him to go with the Arizona senior.

my warriors i think would still have gone with Ike Diago i feel given a chance to redraft at 9. we still hadnt hired don nelson as a our coach so the run and gun small ball offense full of perimeter players wasnt in effect still and our best low post option was our starting point guard at the time. Ike Diougo was supposed to be the post option offensively since Troy Murphy had established himself as a double-double machine, but one who would shoot 15 footers 8 out 10 times compared to playing in the low block.

the 10th pick belonging to the lakers got it right with Bynum who i felt was a reach pick at the time. they banked on his size, age and upside since they needed a high ceiling player. i think if they took a closer look at danny granger he could have been their guy, but they already had a young strong small forward in Caron Butler and Lamar Odom was the PF so Granger could have been seen as redundant. him comming out as a senior may have also raised questions on his upside in the league.

 

i know this order of players may not coincide on their rankings in the draft after what we know after a decade, but when im thinking re-draft, i put myself of what the gm and coaches of those teams would be thinking and how they make their pick without having a premanition of the future. i mean, did we honestly expect David Lee or Monta Ellis to be top 5 or 10 players of this draft? or that amir johnson would be better than 90% of the bigs taken ahead of him?

 

 

 

 

 

[sitlbitoParticipant]

Lopez in Portland,Mozgov in Cleveland,Gobert in Utah… Yeah size matters when your big guy can defend. That’s a game changer,that’s why I say teams lacking a center(Boston) shouldn’t take anyone other than WCS in the draft this year if he’s available. Too valuable in today’s NBA to pass up.

[sitlbitoParticipant]

Lopez in Portland,Mozgov in Cleveland,Gobert in Utah… Yeah size matters when your big guy can defend. That’s a game changer,that’s why I say teams lacking a center(Boston) shouldn’t take anyone other than WCS in the draft this year if he’s available. Too valuable in today’s NBA to pass up.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

Andrew Bogut has had a truly remarkable career transformation. He entered the league as a skilled, scoring center. He was more or less Brook Lopez or Nikola Pekovic before those two came into the league. Just as he was really coming into his own in Milwaukee and the Bucks seemed to be on the rise, he suffered that brutal elbow injury. He has never been the same offensively, and that is true statistically or visually. That said, he was already developing into a good defensive center. The injury probably robbed him of possibly becoming on the of best two-way centers in the league, but it has kept him at a really high level.

What is funny about the evolution of the NBA is that LeBron’s success in Cleveland and Miami made teams dumb about size. Yes, LeBron is a walking mismatch, but there is only one of him and there is only one Kevin Durant. The other 28 teams can’t punt size if they want to win, especially those other 14 teams in the West. Bogut means a ton to Golden State. I still think Golden State can benefit from adding one more big man as depth. With his track record of health, I do not think a team can be too careful. Still, the Warriors are not going to face the same wrath of the Memphis duo, Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, or the other big men in the West wrecking absolute havoc in the paint in the playoffs with Bogut in the mix. He won’t stop them completely, but he certainly has a track record of limiting the damage. 

Justification is a different matter. Milwaukee was on their way to being a very good team prior to that injury. The reality is that good guards come into the league on a regular basis, and that simply is not the case with good skilled big men. As a result, the gap between Chris Paul and Russell Westbrook and the 20th to 25th best starting point guard is far narrower from that of Duncan, the Gasols, and the like with 20th to 25th best center. When it comes to skilled big men, a team has to be willing to be wrong. The bodies are so big, and so many things can go wrong with guys that size, but the only other way around it is to hope the lottery hits and nets you the next generation LeBron James or Michael Jordan. To that argument I say, good big men are rare, but not that rare.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

Andrew Bogut has had a truly remarkable career transformation. He entered the league as a skilled, scoring center. He was more or less Brook Lopez or Nikola Pekovic before those two came into the league. Just as he was really coming into his own in Milwaukee and the Bucks seemed to be on the rise, he suffered that brutal elbow injury. He has never been the same offensively, and that is true statistically or visually. That said, he was already developing into a good defensive center. The injury probably robbed him of possibly becoming on the of best two-way centers in the league, but it has kept him at a really high level.

What is funny about the evolution of the NBA is that LeBron’s success in Cleveland and Miami made teams dumb about size. Yes, LeBron is a walking mismatch, but there is only one of him and there is only one Kevin Durant. The other 28 teams can’t punt size if they want to win, especially those other 14 teams in the West. Bogut means a ton to Golden State. I still think Golden State can benefit from adding one more big man as depth. With his track record of health, I do not think a team can be too careful. Still, the Warriors are not going to face the same wrath of the Memphis duo, Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, or the other big men in the West wrecking absolute havoc in the paint in the playoffs with Bogut in the mix. He won’t stop them completely, but he certainly has a track record of limiting the damage. 

Justification is a different matter. Milwaukee was on their way to being a very good team prior to that injury. The reality is that good guards come into the league on a regular basis, and that simply is not the case with good skilled big men. As a result, the gap between Chris Paul and Russell Westbrook and the 20th to 25th best starting point guard is far narrower from that of Duncan, the Gasols, and the like with 20th to 25th best center. When it comes to skilled big men, a team has to be willing to be wrong. The bodies are so big, and so many things can go wrong with guys that size, but the only other way around it is to hope the lottery hits and nets you the next generation LeBron James or Michael Jordan. To that argument I say, good big men are rare, but not that rare.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 There are a lot of solid centers these days.  

True superstars are always scarce.  Take that guy first and build a team around him.

Point guard and center are the two deepest positions in the league right now.  

Better top shelf PG talent.  Lots of "middle class centers".  Actually there seems like there are as many good BACKUP centers as ever too.  … Not that many great backup point guards. 

The other thing: the rules help point guards.  Their stats might be inflated and centers’ stats might be deflated.

 

 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

How can anyone possibly think center is the second deepest position in the league? Geez, just the Atlantic is trotting out Lou Amundson, Brandon Bass, Jonas Valaciunas, Mason Plumlee, and Nerlens Noel as starting centers in their last games.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

How can anyone possibly think center is the second deepest position in the league? Geez, just the Atlantic is trotting out Lou Amundson, Brandon Bass, Jonas Valaciunas, Mason Plumlee, and Nerlens Noel as starting centers in their last games.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 There are a lot of solid centers these days.  

True superstars are always scarce.  Take that guy first and build a team around him.

Point guard and center are the two deepest positions in the league right now.  

Better top shelf PG talent.  Lots of "middle class centers".  Actually there seems like there are as many good BACKUP centers as ever too.  … Not that many great backup point guards. 

The other thing: the rules help point guards.  Their stats might be inflated and centers’ stats might be deflated.

 

 

[Author]

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