[llperez]

i, as well as counltess others, have brought this subject up before but im gonna get it out of my system one last time. ANd that is the absolute travesty that was the 2006 NBA MVP award.

Kobe had arguably the best individual season from an nba player i have ever seen in 20 years of watching the game.

Lets recap:

1st place: steve nash- 18.8ppg…10.5apg…4.2rpg…team record(54-28)

2nd place: lebron james- 31.4ppg…6.6apg…7rpg…team record(50-32)

3rd place: dirk nowitzki- 26.6ppg…2.8apg…9rpg…team record(60-22)

4th place: kobe bryant- 35.4ppg…4.5apg…5.3rpg…team record(45-37)

5th place: chauncey billups-18.5ppg…8.6apg…3.1rpg…team record(64-18)

okay, to start i will point out that kobe was the only guy on this list that made all nba first team defense. In fact that was arguably the prime of kobe’s defense and he was asked to gaurd the other teams best wing every night which will happen when luke walton is your co wing player in the starting lineup. Lebron and chauncey were both very good defenders but lebron was still young in his third season and wasnt all league defense 1st or second team yet. Nash and dirk were borderline liabilities at this end.

Now as for wins. Obviously kobe has the least with 45 wins. But lets look at that roster: starters were lamar odom(very solid player but crumbled as a number 2 option), smush parker(never even got minutes in the league minus the 2 years he was riding kobe’s coat tails), Kwame Brown(nuff said) Luke Walton(nuff said). Top bench players were chris mihm, brian cook, devean george and sasha vujacic. Now tell me for one second that with that roster going 45-37 should be held AGAINST kobe. gtfoh. Thats one of the biggest arguments FOR kobe. Go look at the rosters those other players had. Plus the east was significantly weaker then the west that year.

Kobe did some amazing things that season. He averaged 40+ points for the month of january. He single handidly outscored the dallas mavericks through 3 quarters kobe-62 dallas mavericks -61 before he sat out the entire 4th quarter of a game. He dropped 81 on the raptors and did it by putting in 55 in the second half after a pretty normal first half that saw his team down double digits. He was double teamed more often then any perimiter player who has played this decade. He was still pretty much unstoppable and as i said before did it at both ends.

The saddest part is, that kobe finished second in first place votes that year. But voters are allowed to vote for the top 5, and about 1/4th of the voters didnt include kobe in their top 5 at all and thus he fell to fourth and barely beat out chauncey for that spot. It was clear kobe being the guy who broke up the lakers, raped a girl in colorado and was so selfish he cared more about scoring then winning was what the voters who didnt even think he was a top 5 player were thinking. But make no doubt about it, ask anybody on the streets or any player or anybody who was the best baller in the game that year and meant the mnost to their team and the answer was Kobe Bryant.

 

[Knicksboy3Participant]

 I hear what you saying, but dude won 45 games. That’s the kicker. He didn’t win enough. Much respect, but Jordan’s Bulls team in the 80’s had similar records, and I don’t think he won a award until 1984, where he had a MONSTER season just to win it. If anything, LeBron’s numbers were good too, and they had similar talents on their teams. 

Isn’t this also the Iverson year as well? As good as Kobe was, he got the award in 08 when he didn’t deserve it, I consider that the made up for the "mistake" many people feel happened here. 

[Knicksboy3Participant]

 I hear what you saying, but dude won 45 games. That’s the kicker. He didn’t win enough. Much respect, but Jordan’s Bulls team in the 80’s had similar records, and I don’t think he won a award until 1984, where he had a MONSTER season just to win it. If anything, LeBron’s numbers were good too, and they had similar talents on their teams. 

Isn’t this also the Iverson year as well? As good as Kobe was, he got the award in 08 when he didn’t deserve it, I consider that the made up for the "mistake" many people feel happened here. 

[ilike.panochasParticipant]

Kobe should have won it I agree. No one has come close to 35PPG since then. And may not see it anytime soon considering most of the stars today like to join forces and form a duo or “Big 3s”.

[ilike.panochasParticipant]

Kobe should have won it I agree. No one has come close to 35PPG since then. And may not see it anytime soon considering most of the stars today like to join forces and form a duo or “Big 3s”.

[Knicksboy3Participant]

 Jordan won in 1987. He averaged

35 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 steals and 1.5 blocks

[Knicksboy3Participant]

 Jordan won in 1987. He averaged

35 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 steals and 1.5 blocks

[llperez]

kobe did deserve it in 2008. I only give him 2, 06 and 08. He deserved both. As for iverson in 06, no he missed 10 games and his team didnt even make the playoffs. As for the 45 wins, i think the my argument addressing the teams roster validates why 45 wins was plenty enough.

Again, I can see if a voter has 1-3 other guys ahead of kobe. But the fact 1/4th of them didnt even think kobe was top 5 shows to me that the voting was hugely biased. Keep in mind its a lot of media memebers voting for mvp’s and they can be more biased then you or I.

As for jordan, he was drafted in 84. ONly played in 18 games in his second season and it wasnt until 1987 that he was in mvp discussions but even then his team was swept in the first round. Besides, what jordan did in the 80’s is irrelevant to what kobe did in the 2000’s.

[llperez]

kobe did deserve it in 2008. I only give him 2, 06 and 08. He deserved both. As for iverson in 06, no he missed 10 games and his team didnt even make the playoffs. As for the 45 wins, i think the my argument addressing the teams roster validates why 45 wins was plenty enough.

Again, I can see if a voter has 1-3 other guys ahead of kobe. But the fact 1/4th of them didnt even think kobe was top 5 shows to me that the voting was hugely biased. Keep in mind its a lot of media memebers voting for mvp’s and they can be more biased then you or I.

As for jordan, he was drafted in 84. ONly played in 18 games in his second season and it wasnt until 1987 that he was in mvp discussions but even then his team was swept in the first round. Besides, what jordan did in the 80’s is irrelevant to what kobe did in the 2000’s.

[Knicksboy3Participant]

If we compare Kobe’s nubmers in 08 to Chris Paul, I think Paul should have won it. I could even see the Kevin Garnett argument Simmons made, but I’ll go CP3 on that one. His numbers were probably the best that year to me. He also took average players to a #2 seed. 

Biased, or not trying to vote for a dude with 45 wins? You have to win more games. Does it make them bias if they have a set idea of what a MVP is? I don’t think it’s bias if a person comes in with a set idea of what a MVP is. 

I was comparing Jordan to Kobe in the sense of: Numbers matter, but wins matter more. 

[Knicksboy3Participant]

If we compare Kobe’s nubmers in 08 to Chris Paul, I think Paul should have won it. I could even see the Kevin Garnett argument Simmons made, but I’ll go CP3 on that one. His numbers were probably the best that year to me. He also took average players to a #2 seed. 

Biased, or not trying to vote for a dude with 45 wins? You have to win more games. Does it make them bias if they have a set idea of what a MVP is? I don’t think it’s bias if a person comes in with a set idea of what a MVP is. 

I was comparing Jordan to Kobe in the sense of: Numbers matter, but wins matter more. 

[llperez]

voting for mvp shouldnt be that hard. It should be the best player/means most to his team. Its that simple. Take kobe off the lakers and they win about 15 games if that in a very deep west. Again, for the third time, not voting for kobe as mvp is not necessarily biased, but not voting him top 5 without question is. If you simply base mvp voting on the standings in the newspaper without looking at the bigger picture, then you shouldnt have a vote.

As for cp3, you could argue either one that year in 2008 but that was a close one and completely irreleveant to this thread.

[llperez]

voting for mvp shouldnt be that hard. It should be the best player/means most to his team. Its that simple. Take kobe off the lakers and they win about 15 games if that in a very deep west. Again, for the third time, not voting for kobe as mvp is not necessarily biased, but not voting him top 5 without question is. If you simply base mvp voting on the standings in the newspaper without looking at the bigger picture, then you shouldnt have a vote.

As for cp3, you could argue either one that year in 2008 but that was a close one and completely irreleveant to this thread.

[Knicksboy3Participant]

if you simply base mvp voting on the standings in the newspaper without looking at the bigger picture, then you shouldnt have a vote.

– But LeBron got 50 wins and placed 2nd, Dirk got 3rd with 60 wins, so clearly people don’t do that. If you take LeBron off that Cleveland team that year, they probably win 20 games as well. Should he have won it? 

As for cp3, you could argue either one that year in 2008 but that was a close one and completely irreleveant to this thread.

– I don’t understand how it’s irrelevant when discussing a MVP award, but whatever. 

 

[Knicksboy3Participant]

if you simply base mvp voting on the standings in the newspaper without looking at the bigger picture, then you shouldnt have a vote.

– But LeBron got 50 wins and placed 2nd, Dirk got 3rd with 60 wins, so clearly people don’t do that. If you take LeBron off that Cleveland team that year, they probably win 20 games as well. Should he have won it? 

As for cp3, you could argue either one that year in 2008 but that was a close one and completely irreleveant to this thread.

– I don’t understand how it’s irrelevant when discussing a MVP award, but whatever. 

 

[llperez]

YOU said kobe only won 45 games so he doesnt get mvp. SO my comment about not looking at newspapers was directed at you. Why do you think kobe shouldnt win the mvp with 45 wins despite the fact he had a clearly inferior team and was in a significantly more difficult confernce then lebron.  ANd who should have won in 2008 when we are talking about who shaould have won in 2006 is pretty much pointless.

[llperez]

YOU said kobe only won 45 games so he doesnt get mvp. SO my comment about not looking at newspapers was directed at you. Why do you think kobe shouldnt win the mvp with 45 wins despite the fact he had a clearly inferior team and was in a significantly more difficult confernce then lebron.  ANd who should have won in 2008 when we are talking about who shaould have won in 2006 is pretty much pointless.

[flybobbyflyParticipant]

There have been some tragedies in recent mvp awards definitely. It seems as if the most valuable and dominant player in the league only wins the award maybe 50 percent of the time.

For instance shaq made every single center in the league his bitch for a good 7o or 8 years. He only ever was awarded one mvp award. Who could have possibly been more valuable to have on your team? I’m going to go out and say that you could have put shaq on most teams in the league and he would have won a championship or two from 99-05.

Kidd didnt win an mvp when he turned the nets around 360 degrees and led them to the finals. He definitely deserved it that year. 

And I’m gonna go out and say this despite the negs I’ll recieve, When you are as subpar of a defensive player as Nash and Nowtzki are you should never get an MVP award. First team NBA sure, but not MVP. 

Howard and Lebron were the most valuable players in the league last year. Either the criteria or the title of this award needs to be changed.

 

[flybobbyflyParticipant]

There have been some tragedies in recent mvp awards definitely. It seems as if the most valuable and dominant player in the league only wins the award maybe 50 percent of the time.

For instance shaq made every single center in the league his bitch for a good 7o or 8 years. He only ever was awarded one mvp award. Who could have possibly been more valuable to have on your team? I’m going to go out and say that you could have put shaq on most teams in the league and he would have won a championship or two from 99-05.

Kidd didnt win an mvp when he turned the nets around 360 degrees and led them to the finals. He definitely deserved it that year. 

And I’m gonna go out and say this despite the negs I’ll recieve, When you are as subpar of a defensive player as Nash and Nowtzki are you should never get an MVP award. First team NBA sure, but not MVP. 

Howard and Lebron were the most valuable players in the league last year. Either the criteria or the title of this award needs to be changed.

 

[Knicksboy3Participant]

Kobe Bryant shouldn’t have won the MVP simply because other players had solid success and more wins. Kobe Bryant balled, I’m not denying that. The Lakers didn’t have a good season and regardless of his solo success, I look at overall success, as well as some of the voters. His numbers were great, but you overrate the numbers also. 

Nash had a great season, on a team where he pushed it to another level. Without Nash, you can argue that team is right there with the Lakers in the bottom of the Western playoff picture.

LeBron’s numbers, plus the fact he lost 2 of his top 3 teammates ( Hughes played 35 games, Ronald Murray played 30) and still lead Cleveland to 50 wins, while throwing up 6 Triple Doubles and a 31-7-6 is amazing in itself also. LeBron’s top 4 teammates that year? Big Z, Gooden, Hughes and Murray. That’s a DISGUSTING set. Lamar Odom is better then all 4, and he wasn’t robbed either? You remove LeBron, that team is terrible. Not saying taking Kobe off LA they’d be alright, but let’s not act as if Kobe was the only guy that if removed completely kills a team.

 

 

 

[Knicksboy3Participant]

Kobe Bryant shouldn’t have won the MVP simply because other players had solid success and more wins. Kobe Bryant balled, I’m not denying that. The Lakers didn’t have a good season and regardless of his solo success, I look at overall success, as well as some of the voters. His numbers were great, but you overrate the numbers also. 

Nash had a great season, on a team where he pushed it to another level. Without Nash, you can argue that team is right there with the Lakers in the bottom of the Western playoff picture.

LeBron’s numbers, plus the fact he lost 2 of his top 3 teammates ( Hughes played 35 games, Ronald Murray played 30) and still lead Cleveland to 50 wins, while throwing up 6 Triple Doubles and a 31-7-6 is amazing in itself also. LeBron’s top 4 teammates that year? Big Z, Gooden, Hughes and Murray. That’s a DISGUSTING set. Lamar Odom is better then all 4, and he wasn’t robbed either? You remove LeBron, that team is terrible. Not saying taking Kobe off LA they’d be alright, but let’s not act as if Kobe was the only guy that if removed completely kills a team.

 

 

 

[Knicksboy3Participant]

 And I’m gonna go out and say this despite the negs I’ll recieve, When you are as subpar of a defensive player as Nash and Nowtzki are you should never get an MVP award. First team NBA sure, but not MVP.

– You know that would mean Magic Johnson and Larry Bird wouldn’t get MVP’s either based on that logic.

[Knicksboy3Participant]

 And I’m gonna go out and say this despite the negs I’ll recieve, When you are as subpar of a defensive player as Nash and Nowtzki are you should never get an MVP award. First team NBA sure, but not MVP.

– You know that would mean Magic Johnson and Larry Bird wouldn’t get MVP’s either based on that logic.

[llperez]

i agree, i look at team succes as well which is why kobe deserved it. Nash played with an all-star and 6th men candidates and game changers. SO did dirk. As for lebron, zydrunas was in his prime played 78 games and we could call him a wash for odom. After that, its not even close, the cavs roster crushes the lakers roster. the next best laker is probably luke walton. Seriously im not making that up. COmpare him  with half a season of hughes, or half a season of murray or a whole season of gooden . Lebrons roster craps on kobe’s roster. And 5 more wins copuld be entirely accounted to the conference factor of the east being significantly worse then the west.

[llperez]

i agree, i look at team succes as well which is why kobe deserved it. Nash played with an all-star and 6th men candidates and game changers. SO did dirk. As for lebron, zydrunas was in his prime played 78 games and we could call him a wash for odom. After that, its not even close, the cavs roster crushes the lakers roster. the next best laker is probably luke walton. Seriously im not making that up. COmpare him  with half a season of hughes, or half a season of murray or a whole season of gooden . Lebrons roster craps on kobe’s roster. And 5 more wins copuld be entirely accounted to the conference factor of the east being significantly worse then the west.

[Knicksboy3Participant]

 zydrunas was in his prime played 78 games and we could call him a wash for odom.

– No he wasn’t. In fact, he was declining. You calling him a wash for Odom is crazy. 

Anyway, I understand what you’re saying, but then you make it sound like Kobe was the only OTHER player a argument could be made for, which I feel isn’t true.

[Knicksboy3Participant]

 zydrunas was in his prime played 78 games and we could call him a wash for odom.

– No he wasn’t. In fact, he was declining. You calling him a wash for Odom is crazy. 

Anyway, I understand what you’re saying, but then you make it sound like Kobe was the only OTHER player a argument could be made for, which I feel isn’t true.

[GrandmamaParticipant]

I would have voted for Kobe that year, it is a shame he got fourth.  He had one of the best statistical seasons that I can remember and did it with a marginal crew.  You take Kobe off this team and they’re a 20 win team.

 

54	Kwame Brown	F	6-11	270	March 10, 1982	4
8	Kobe Bryant	G	6-6	200	August 23, 1978	9
17	Andrew Bynum	C	7-0	285	October 27, 1987	R
43	Brian Cook	F	6-9	234	December 4, 1980	2	University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
3	Devean George	G-F	6-8	220	August 29, 1977	6	Augsburg College
11	Devin Green	G	6-7	210	October 25, 1982	R	Hampton University
24	Jim Jackson	G	6-6	220	October 14, 1970	13	Ohio State University
2	Aaron McKie	G	6-5	209	October 2, 1972	11	Temple University
14	Stanislav Medvedenko	F	6-10	250	April 4, 1979	5
31	Chris Mihm	C	7-0	265	July 16, 1979	5	University of Texas at Austin
7	Lamar Odom	F	6-10	220	November 6, 1979	6	University of Rhode Island
1	Smush Parker	G	6-4	190	June 1, 1981	2	Fordham University
9	Laron Profit	G-F	6-5	204	August 5, 1977	3	University of Maryland
21	Ronny Turiaf	F	6-10	249	January 13, 1983	R	Gonzaga University
18	Sasha Vujacic	G	6-7	193	March 8, 1984	1
23	Von Wafer	G	6-5	210	July 21, 1985	R	Florida State University
4	Luke Walton	F	6-8	235	March 28, 1980	2	University of Arizona

[GrandmamaParticipant]

I would have voted for Kobe that year, it is a shame he got fourth.  He had one of the best statistical seasons that I can remember and did it with a marginal crew.  You take Kobe off this team and they’re a 20 win team.

 

54	Kwame Brown	F	6-11	270	March 10, 1982	4
8	Kobe Bryant	G	6-6	200	August 23, 1978	9
17	Andrew Bynum	C	7-0	285	October 27, 1987	R
43	Brian Cook	F	6-9	234	December 4, 1980	2	University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
3	Devean George	G-F	6-8	220	August 29, 1977	6	Augsburg College
11	Devin Green	G	6-7	210	October 25, 1982	R	Hampton University
24	Jim Jackson	G	6-6	220	October 14, 1970	13	Ohio State University
2	Aaron McKie	G	6-5	209	October 2, 1972	11	Temple University
14	Stanislav Medvedenko	F	6-10	250	April 4, 1979	5
31	Chris Mihm	C	7-0	265	July 16, 1979	5	University of Texas at Austin
7	Lamar Odom	F	6-10	220	November 6, 1979	6	University of Rhode Island
1	Smush Parker	G	6-4	190	June 1, 1981	2	Fordham University
9	Laron Profit	G-F	6-5	204	August 5, 1977	3	University of Maryland
21	Ronny Turiaf	F	6-10	249	January 13, 1983	R	Gonzaga University
18	Sasha Vujacic	G	6-7	193	March 8, 1984	1
23	Von Wafer	G	6-5	210	July 21, 1985	R	Florida State University
4	Luke Walton	F	6-8	235	March 28, 1980	2	University of Arizona

[llperez]

its absolutely a wash for him and odom. That was z’s third highest scoring season of his career. He scored more then odom. And it was His second highest fg % of his career. He was a legit go to big man. Odom was not a go to player as opposed to a stat stuffer who did the all around things. Its not crazy at all to call them a wash. Odom has played the bast ball of his career recently as anyone would agree becasue back then he really struggled being a number 2 option.

[llperez]

its absolutely a wash for him and odom. That was z’s third highest scoring season of his career. He scored more then odom. And it was His second highest fg % of his career. He was a legit go to big man. Odom was not a go to player as opposed to a stat stuffer who did the all around things. Its not crazy at all to call them a wash. Odom has played the bast ball of his career recently as anyone would agree becasue back then he really struggled being a number 2 option.

[Knicksboy3Participant]

 A go to big man? I disagree fully. He was alright, his numbers were always slightly inflated early in his career because he had to score and then when he was slightly declining, he had the best passing forward since Bird IMO. I watched him play alot, he was never a GO TO guy.  His numbers were solid, but I’d still take Odom overall. Even back then, I felt Odom was the better guy, he was a mismatch, he could play the 3-4 and could pass like a solid point guard. I don’t think Odom would have worked with LeBron though. 

[Knicksboy3Participant]

 A go to big man? I disagree fully. He was alright, his numbers were always slightly inflated early in his career because he had to score and then when he was slightly declining, he had the best passing forward since Bird IMO. I watched him play alot, he was never a GO TO guy.  His numbers were solid, but I’d still take Odom overall. Even back then, I felt Odom was the better guy, he was a mismatch, he could play the 3-4 and could pass like a solid point guard. I don’t think Odom would have worked with LeBron though. 

[Knicksboy3Participant]

 Plus, the point difference was .7 when one guy played with Kobe and the other played with LeBron.

[Knicksboy3Participant]

 Plus, the point difference was .7 when one guy played with Kobe and the other played with LeBron.

[llperez]

you are nitpicking minor details about my comment of them being a wash. ANy scoring superstar wants a guy who can catch and shoot becasue that means the defender cant leave that guy. Well. Z has been a better shooter then odom every single season they have played in the league. Z is perfect to play around a superstar drawing doubles becasue z ccould knock down shots. Odom couldnt. He had to have the ball in his hands and even then he didnt have any real spot on the floor he could go to work and bust his opponent up. Odom was always an all around player while z was the guy who could straight get buckets and keep opposing bigs from crowding the paint. They brought entirely different things to the court but z was a 7 footer who could pass and knock down shots all day while odom was ball handler who could do the littel things. Z was a very deserving all-star at 1 point in his career something odom has never done. To call it crazy to give them a toss up is …well…crazy.

Anyways this whole topic is kinda digressing. Kobe was just flat out better then lebron that year. Put it this way. That was kobe at his absolute best playing the game of basketball as well as he has ever played it vs a 21 year old lebron in his third season. Lets look past stats and recognize who was just better. Players back then all said kobe was better and they probably know better then journalists looking to write stories.

[llperez]

you are nitpicking minor details about my comment of them being a wash. ANy scoring superstar wants a guy who can catch and shoot becasue that means the defender cant leave that guy. Well. Z has been a better shooter then odom every single season they have played in the league. Z is perfect to play around a superstar drawing doubles becasue z ccould knock down shots. Odom couldnt. He had to have the ball in his hands and even then he didnt have any real spot on the floor he could go to work and bust his opponent up. Odom was always an all around player while z was the guy who could straight get buckets and keep opposing bigs from crowding the paint. They brought entirely different things to the court but z was a 7 footer who could pass and knock down shots all day while odom was ball handler who could do the littel things. Z was a very deserving all-star at 1 point in his career something odom has never done. To call it crazy to give them a toss up is …well…crazy.

Anyways this whole topic is kinda digressing. Kobe was just flat out better then lebron that year. Put it this way. That was kobe at his absolute best playing the game of basketball as well as he has ever played it vs a 21 year old lebron in his third season. Lets look past stats and recognize who was just better. Players back then all said kobe was better and they probably know better then journalists looking to write stories.

[BiggaveliiiParticipant]

the last 5 mvps and their respective team won 55 or more games 4 of them won 60. Kobe had a great year that year no doubt but all do respect to Kobe but in my opinion and maybe some of the media guys felt probably they same way, The MVP award should be awarded to the individual that makes his team better not by averaging 35 ppg but overall affecting his team.

 

– Dirk and the mavs had 6 straight 50 + win seasons up to that point

– Lebron in his third season Carried a bench team to a 50 win season ( following year carried a d league team to the finals passed a battles tested Piston squad

– Kobe did get the lakers to 45 wins but that team was probably better then what James had in 07.

Point being MVp award should be given to the player whos team has the best record just because hard work pays off , jsut look at the Cavs this year when the lebron left that team and they had the best record the year before. Stats are not everything thats why Steve Nash won year though i do believe Dirk should’ve won

 

[BiggaveliiiParticipant]

the last 5 mvps and their respective team won 55 or more games 4 of them won 60. Kobe had a great year that year no doubt but all do respect to Kobe but in my opinion and maybe some of the media guys felt probably they same way, The MVP award should be awarded to the individual that makes his team better not by averaging 35 ppg but overall affecting his team.

 

– Dirk and the mavs had 6 straight 50 + win seasons up to that point

– Lebron in his third season Carried a bench team to a 50 win season ( following year carried a d league team to the finals passed a battles tested Piston squad

– Kobe did get the lakers to 45 wins but that team was probably better then what James had in 07.

Point being MVp award should be given to the player whos team has the best record just because hard work pays off , jsut look at the Cavs this year when the lebron left that team and they had the best record the year before. Stats are not everything thats why Steve Nash won year though i do believe Dirk should’ve won

 

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Wade was robbed in ’09. 

30ppg, 7.5apg, 5.0rpg while shooting 49% from the field and nearly 10 free throws a game?  As well as 2.2spg and a whopping 1.3bpg for a 6’4 undersized shooting guard?  That’s unheard of.  Not to mention, All-NBA 1st Team and if it wasn’t for the All-Defensive teams being a popularity contest most of the time, he would have made it over Kobe Bryant on the 1st team. 

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Wade was robbed in ’09. 

30ppg, 7.5apg, 5.0rpg while shooting 49% from the field and nearly 10 free throws a game?  As well as 2.2spg and a whopping 1.3bpg for a 6’4 undersized shooting guard?  That’s unheard of.  Not to mention, All-NBA 1st Team and if it wasn’t for the All-Defensive teams being a popularity contest most of the time, he would have made it over Kobe Bryant on the 1st team. 

[TooNice4TVParticipant]

 You’ve got to be kidding me if you think Lakers have a garbage team. Look at THIS team and see a 22 year old carry these guys to the finals only to be swept. I don’t see Kobe leading this team to 50 wins, but I bet Lebron could carry that Lakers team further in terms of winning games because of his unselfish play.

 

15	Martynas Andriuskevicius	C	7-2	240	March 12, 1986	R
90	Drew Gooden	F	6-10	230	September 24, 1981	3	University of Kansas
1	Stephen Graham	G	6-6	215	June 11, 1982	R	Oklahoma State University
31	Zendon Hamilton	F	6-11	250	April 27, 1975	5	St. John’s University
44	Alan Henderson	F	6-9	235	December 2, 1972	10	Indiana University
32	Larry Hughes	G	6-5	184	January 23, 1979	7	Saint Louis University
11	Zydrunas Ilgauskas	C	7-3	238	June 5, 1975	7
33	Luke Jackson	F	6-7	215	November 6, 1981	1	University of Oregon
23	LeBron James	F	6-8	240	December 30, 1984	2
19	Damon Jones	G	6-3	185	August 25, 1976	7	University of Houston
24	Donyell Marshall	F	6-9	218	May 18, 1973	11	University of Connecticut
2	Ronald Murray	G	6-4	190	July 29, 1979	3	Shaw University
14	Ira Newble	F	6-7	220	January 20, 1975	5	Miami University
3	Sasha Pavlovic	G-F	6-8	220	November 15, 1983	2
20	Eric Snow	G	6-3	190	April 24, 1973	10	Michigan State University
17	Anderson Varejao	F-C	6-10	230	September 28, 1982	1
29	Mike Wilks	G	5-10	185	May 7, 1979	3	Rice University

 

[TooNice4TVParticipant]

 You’ve got to be kidding me if you think Lakers have a garbage team. Look at THIS team and see a 22 year old carry these guys to the finals only to be swept. I don’t see Kobe leading this team to 50 wins, but I bet Lebron could carry that Lakers team further in terms of winning games because of his unselfish play.

 

15	Martynas Andriuskevicius	C	7-2	240	March 12, 1986	R
90	Drew Gooden	F	6-10	230	September 24, 1981	3	University of Kansas
1	Stephen Graham	G	6-6	215	June 11, 1982	R	Oklahoma State University
31	Zendon Hamilton	F	6-11	250	April 27, 1975	5	St. John’s University
44	Alan Henderson	F	6-9	235	December 2, 1972	10	Indiana University
32	Larry Hughes	G	6-5	184	January 23, 1979	7	Saint Louis University
11	Zydrunas Ilgauskas	C	7-3	238	June 5, 1975	7
33	Luke Jackson	F	6-7	215	November 6, 1981	1	University of Oregon
23	LeBron James	F	6-8	240	December 30, 1984	2
19	Damon Jones	G	6-3	185	August 25, 1976	7	University of Houston
24	Donyell Marshall	F	6-9	218	May 18, 1973	11	University of Connecticut
2	Ronald Murray	G	6-4	190	July 29, 1979	3	Shaw University
14	Ira Newble	F	6-7	220	January 20, 1975	5	Miami University
3	Sasha Pavlovic	G-F	6-8	220	November 15, 1983	2
20	Eric Snow	G	6-3	190	April 24, 1973	10	Michigan State University
17	Anderson Varejao	F-C	6-10	230	September 28, 1982	1
29	Mike Wilks	G	5-10	185	May 7, 1979	3	Rice University

 

[M-DYMESParticipant]

"Now as for wins. Obviously kobe has the least with 45 wins. But lets look at that roster: starters were lamar odom(very solid player but crumbled as a number 2 option), smush parker(never even got minutes in the league minus the 2 years he was riding kobe’s coat tails), Kwame Brown(nuff said) Luke Walton(nuff said). Top bench players were chris mihm, brian cook, devean george and sasha vujacic. Now tell me for one second that with that roster going 45-37 should be held AGAINST kobe. gtfoh. Thats one of the biggest arguments FOR kobe. Go look at the rosters those other players had. Plus the east was significantly weaker then the west that year."

Couldn’t agree more.  And people wonder why Kobe was a "Ballhog" that year.  Who the hell else is gonna score on that squad other than maybe 15-20 from Odom?

[M-DYMESParticipant]

"Now as for wins. Obviously kobe has the least with 45 wins. But lets look at that roster: starters were lamar odom(very solid player but crumbled as a number 2 option), smush parker(never even got minutes in the league minus the 2 years he was riding kobe’s coat tails), Kwame Brown(nuff said) Luke Walton(nuff said). Top bench players were chris mihm, brian cook, devean george and sasha vujacic. Now tell me for one second that with that roster going 45-37 should be held AGAINST kobe. gtfoh. Thats one of the biggest arguments FOR kobe. Go look at the rosters those other players had. Plus the east was significantly weaker then the west that year."

Couldn’t agree more.  And people wonder why Kobe was a "Ballhog" that year.  Who the hell else is gonna score on that squad other than maybe 15-20 from Odom?

[LawDeeZeeParticipant]

it’s proposterous to ever think that zydrunal ilgauskus was a wash for lamar odom – i don’t think MVP should be based soley on numbers either, there are guys that are able to consistently put up good numbers on bad teams … then there are guys who are able to put up those same numbers on good teams – i can’t see a guy leading his team to 45 wins ever being selected MVP over a guy whos team is in the 60 win range

kobe had a great year, but you’re never going to be named MVP when you’re value to your team resulted in a barely over 500 record – you can say that wasn’t a very good laker team without kobe, but i’d say at 45-37 they weren’t overly impressive with him either

[LawDeeZeeParticipant]

it’s proposterous to ever think that zydrunal ilgauskus was a wash for lamar odom – i don’t think MVP should be based soley on numbers either, there are guys that are able to consistently put up good numbers on bad teams … then there are guys who are able to put up those same numbers on good teams – i can’t see a guy leading his team to 45 wins ever being selected MVP over a guy whos team is in the 60 win range

kobe had a great year, but you’re never going to be named MVP when you’re value to your team resulted in a barely over 500 record – you can say that wasn’t a very good laker team without kobe, but i’d say at 45-37 they weren’t overly impressive with him either

[M-DYMESParticipant]

Without Kobe on that squad, that is arguably the worst team in the league.  To get them to nearly a 60% winning percentage, combined with the historic number he had, I think there is a extremely strong reason to feel he deserved that award. 

[M-DYMESParticipant]

Without Kobe on that squad, that is arguably the worst team in the league.  To get them to nearly a 60% winning percentage, combined with the historic number he had, I think there is a extremely strong reason to feel he deserved that award. 

[surveParticipant]

suppose you were able to trade any player (even trade) for another that year.  lets trade each of top 5 in the MVP race.    Lets trade them for someone who was not in the voting.  How do you think the team records would be affected?

Nash was #1 right, so, who were the top PG’s besides Nash that year (Billups doesnt count right now)?  there was Iverson, Arenas, and for good measure lets throw in J. Kidd.

Lebron # 2- next best SF were Carmelo and after him would have to be Marion because you cant count T-Mac, didnt play 50 games even.

Dirk # 3- next best were Garnett, Brand, and we can through in Bosh, C-Webb, P. Gasol.

Kobe # 4- Wade, Redd, Allen, Carter, Richardson

Billups- PG’s listed above but suppose we interchange Billups with Nash?

who would you have the easiest time swapping out and keeping the same records or close to it?

[surveParticipant]

suppose you were able to trade any player (even trade) for another that year.  lets trade each of top 5 in the MVP race.    Lets trade them for someone who was not in the voting.  How do you think the team records would be affected?

Nash was #1 right, so, who were the top PG’s besides Nash that year (Billups doesnt count right now)?  there was Iverson, Arenas, and for good measure lets throw in J. Kidd.

Lebron # 2- next best SF were Carmelo and after him would have to be Marion because you cant count T-Mac, didnt play 50 games even.

Dirk # 3- next best were Garnett, Brand, and we can through in Bosh, C-Webb, P. Gasol.

Kobe # 4- Wade, Redd, Allen, Carter, Richardson

Billups- PG’s listed above but suppose we interchange Billups with Nash?

who would you have the easiest time swapping out and keeping the same records or close to it?

[surveParticipant]

the fact that Marion was one of the top players in the league that year puts me off a bit with the Nash selection because they won 9 more games than the Lakers.  thats a big number if you are looking from a record perspective but comparing the 2 rosters…it doesnt look so impressive.  If we are talking wins, you could replace Nash with Iverson, Arenas, or Kidd and have the same amount of wins.  Definitely replacing Nash for Billups you could get to that total.  Billups was a beast back then.

You can replace Dirk with Garnett and they would still be monster.

You can replace Billups with Nash, still a great team.

Because D-Wade was so good that year, you could replace Kobe with him but I dont think they are as good as the 45 wins in the West.

The hardest replacement has to be Lebron.  Carmelo on that team doesnt appear to be a 50 win squad IMO.

If you take Lebron or Kobe away from their teams and replace them with just any ole player, these teams definitely have the biggest drop in win total.  No doubt about it.  I dont even know if either of them could win 20 games.

[surveParticipant]

the fact that Marion was one of the top players in the league that year puts me off a bit with the Nash selection because they won 9 more games than the Lakers.  thats a big number if you are looking from a record perspective but comparing the 2 rosters…it doesnt look so impressive.  If we are talking wins, you could replace Nash with Iverson, Arenas, or Kidd and have the same amount of wins.  Definitely replacing Nash for Billups you could get to that total.  Billups was a beast back then.

You can replace Dirk with Garnett and they would still be monster.

You can replace Billups with Nash, still a great team.

Because D-Wade was so good that year, you could replace Kobe with him but I dont think they are as good as the 45 wins in the West.

The hardest replacement has to be Lebron.  Carmelo on that team doesnt appear to be a 50 win squad IMO.

If you take Lebron or Kobe away from their teams and replace them with just any ole player, these teams definitely have the biggest drop in win total.  No doubt about it.  I dont even know if either of them could win 20 games.

[PureshooterParticipant]

I think it’s a pretty legit MVP.  Kobe’s team wasn’t particularly great and aside from his PPG, neither were his numbers.  He had a good season, but it didn’t seem as if he made his team or those around him better.  It was the fifth straight year that a Nash led team had led the league in scoring.  Also, I just saw that in 2005-2006 Nash became only the 4th player in league history to shoot at least 50% from the field, 90% from the FT line and 40% from 3 while shooting the minimum number of attempts.  The only other players to do so were Bird, Reggie Miller and Mark Price.

[PureshooterParticipant]

I think it’s a pretty legit MVP.  Kobe’s team wasn’t particularly great and aside from his PPG, neither were his numbers.  He had a good season, but it didn’t seem as if he made his team or those around him better.  It was the fifth straight year that a Nash led team had led the league in scoring.  Also, I just saw that in 2005-2006 Nash became only the 4th player in league history to shoot at least 50% from the field, 90% from the FT line and 40% from 3 while shooting the minimum number of attempts.  The only other players to do so were Bird, Reggie Miller and Mark Price.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/mvp-4

The 2006 vote was when I lost a lot of faith in the MVP voting process. Kobe Bryant leading his team to 45 wins that year was a miracle. As great as LeBron’s season was, and as impressive as it was that Nash’s team won 54 without Stoudemire, Kobe was on another level. He almost beat that Phoenix team in the play-offs single handedly. 81 points! I mean, how is everyone not marvelling that he did this? They were down in the game, and Phil just says, "Kobe, go nuts.":

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200601220LAL.html

Here is the single reason why Dirk Nowitzki, in no way, should have had more MVP votes than Kobe Bryant that season:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200512200LAL.html

62 points! In 32 minutes! Kobe was on a team that was putridly awful. He dominated that entire year, and his getting that team to 45 wins was a miracle. More so than Wade in 2009, who had a fantastic year, but LeBron’s team went nuts. No team went nuts this year, and certainly no one had a better season. Also, bare in mind that the Eastern Conference was still at a point of being MUCH worse than the Western Conference, perhaps explaining LeBron’s Cavs winning 50 games. Either way, if you do not give the MVP to LeBron, you give it to Kobe. I definitely was SHOCKED and appalled that Kobe did not take it down in 2006. The MVP takes into account a lot of factors, and the fact that people have taken story and shock factor into account, it can mean that maybe the wrong person gets the hype.

Steve Nash was fantastic, and the Suns were exciting, but I think it came down to "Who was the better player that season?" Kobe Bryant was the best player in the world, and had a season that no one other than Michael Jordan has come close to duplicating in the modern era. Do not get me started on some of the years Michael Jordan did not win MVP as well. Kobe Bryant having one MVP award is a freaking shame. He and Shaq should have both won multiple awards. But, I guess the fact that some of the people who indeed won the award over them never having Finals MVP’s in their trophy cases kind of makes up for it.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/mvp-4

The 2006 vote was when I lost a lot of faith in the MVP voting process. Kobe Bryant leading his team to 45 wins that year was a miracle. As great as LeBron’s season was, and as impressive as it was that Nash’s team won 54 without Stoudemire, Kobe was on another level. He almost beat that Phoenix team in the play-offs single handedly. 81 points! I mean, how is everyone not marvelling that he did this? They were down in the game, and Phil just says, "Kobe, go nuts.":

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200601220LAL.html

Here is the single reason why Dirk Nowitzki, in no way, should have had more MVP votes than Kobe Bryant that season:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200512200LAL.html

62 points! In 32 minutes! Kobe was on a team that was putridly awful. He dominated that entire year, and his getting that team to 45 wins was a miracle. More so than Wade in 2009, who had a fantastic year, but LeBron’s team went nuts. No team went nuts this year, and certainly no one had a better season. Also, bare in mind that the Eastern Conference was still at a point of being MUCH worse than the Western Conference, perhaps explaining LeBron’s Cavs winning 50 games. Either way, if you do not give the MVP to LeBron, you give it to Kobe. I definitely was SHOCKED and appalled that Kobe did not take it down in 2006. The MVP takes into account a lot of factors, and the fact that people have taken story and shock factor into account, it can mean that maybe the wrong person gets the hype.

Steve Nash was fantastic, and the Suns were exciting, but I think it came down to "Who was the better player that season?" Kobe Bryant was the best player in the world, and had a season that no one other than Michael Jordan has come close to duplicating in the modern era. Do not get me started on some of the years Michael Jordan did not win MVP as well. Kobe Bryant having one MVP award is a freaking shame. He and Shaq should have both won multiple awards. But, I guess the fact that some of the people who indeed won the award over them never having Finals MVP’s in their trophy cases kind of makes up for it.

[LawDeeZeeParticipant]

he almost beat that phoenix team? interesting anyone supporting kobe would bring that series up! a 45 win team will never produce a league MVP … you’re value should be reflected in your teams record to some degree – manipulating the argument to claim that laker team would have been the worst in the NBA is just a desperation argument – they weren’t a very good supporting cast, but nobody wins the MVP without at least a pretty good supporting cast … perhaps in reflecting upon this it will finally be acknowledged that MVP’s should be capable of elevating their supporting cast to a better then 45 win season

[LawDeeZeeParticipant]

he almost beat that phoenix team? interesting anyone supporting kobe would bring that series up! a 45 win team will never produce a league MVP … you’re value should be reflected in your teams record to some degree – manipulating the argument to claim that laker team would have been the worst in the NBA is just a desperation argument – they weren’t a very good supporting cast, but nobody wins the MVP without at least a pretty good supporting cast … perhaps in reflecting upon this it will finally be acknowledged that MVP’s should be capable of elevating their supporting cast to a better then 45 win season

[chevilicousParticipant]

I agree with this totally, but the regular season awards are just flat out garbage, just look at the coach of the year award that is handed out to 1st or 2nd year coaches who meet their expectations every year, rather than teams with little to no talent exceeding their expectations, just ask Jerry Sloan on that one.

[chevilicousParticipant]

I agree with this totally, but the regular season awards are just flat out garbage, just look at the coach of the year award that is handed out to 1st or 2nd year coaches who meet their expectations every year, rather than teams with little to no talent exceeding their expectations, just ask Jerry Sloan on that one.

[surveParticipant]

"perhaps in reflecting upon this it will finally be acknowledged that MVP’s should be capable of elevating their supporting cast to a better then 45 win season"

why?  I never get how you base this stuff on win total alone.  because Kobe didnt win more than 45 games that automatically disqualifies him?  I dont look at how many games they won with him but how many they would potentially lose without him.  Its relative to the situation. 

"a 45 win team will never produce a league MVP"

its happened before, although not likely today, but under certain situations it could.

the Lakers wouldve been the worst, thats not a desperation argument.  Granted, the chemistry may be different but its easier to find another guy who can give you 18ppg and 10 assists than it is to find a guy who can give you 35 points a night with 4 dimes and 5 boards.  if you had to replace that, the next man in line would be….LEBRON.  Like I said, Billups numbers were close to Nash and they had a better record.

The most valuable/irreplaceable guys to their teams were Lebron and Kobe that year, without a doubt.  This is why I totally agree with this years selection…with Noah and Boozer missing a lot of time, subtract Rose from that team and how close do they get to 62 wins?

 

[surveParticipant]

"perhaps in reflecting upon this it will finally be acknowledged that MVP’s should be capable of elevating their supporting cast to a better then 45 win season"

why?  I never get how you base this stuff on win total alone.  because Kobe didnt win more than 45 games that automatically disqualifies him?  I dont look at how many games they won with him but how many they would potentially lose without him.  Its relative to the situation. 

"a 45 win team will never produce a league MVP"

its happened before, although not likely today, but under certain situations it could.

the Lakers wouldve been the worst, thats not a desperation argument.  Granted, the chemistry may be different but its easier to find another guy who can give you 18ppg and 10 assists than it is to find a guy who can give you 35 points a night with 4 dimes and 5 boards.  if you had to replace that, the next man in line would be….LEBRON.  Like I said, Billups numbers were close to Nash and they had a better record.

The most valuable/irreplaceable guys to their teams were Lebron and Kobe that year, without a doubt.  This is why I totally agree with this years selection…with Noah and Boozer missing a lot of time, subtract Rose from that team and how close do they get to 62 wins?

 

[immaletufinishbutParticipant]

The MVP award is a complete joke since Jordan retired, its more of a popularity vote at this point. When I think of MVP, I think of the only player in the NBA that every team wants and will give up any player for. No disrespect to Nash, but he should not have won the award 05 or 06. I think he did merit an all-nba and all-star selection but no way mvp. He was arguebly not even the best player on his own team.

[immaletufinishbutParticipant]

The MVP award is a complete joke since Jordan retired, its more of a popularity vote at this point. When I think of MVP, I think of the only player in the NBA that every team wants and will give up any player for. No disrespect to Nash, but he should not have won the award 05 or 06. I think he did merit an all-nba and all-star selection but no way mvp. He was arguebly not even the best player on his own team.

[GottaBeTheShoesParticipant]

Looks like Dirk should have won.. 27 and 9 and his team had one of the best record in the nba.. and chauncey was really good that year with the best record in the nba, he is one of the best leaders in the history of the game and his stats are still pretty great..  Kobe played extremely well but he just had no help and definitely would deserve it if he had 50 wins or so.. but its a shame he just had a worse team than lebron had in cleveland.

[GottaBeTheShoesParticipant]

Looks like Dirk should have won.. 27 and 9 and his team had one of the best record in the nba.. and chauncey was really good that year with the best record in the nba, he is one of the best leaders in the history of the game and his stats are still pretty great..  Kobe played extremely well but he just had no help and definitely would deserve it if he had 50 wins or so.. but its a shame he just had a worse team than lebron had in cleveland.

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

 ^ Ha 

thats funny saying that nash maybe wasnt the best player on the suns in 2006… i hope thats sarcasm

but now after i read some of this posts 

i feel as if kobe really did deserve the nba for 06 than nash

before i thought nash had deserved more

but kobe and with that roster he had to carry and to still win 45 games and to average 35 a game

is crazy good

but nash that yr still was deserving

but now i feel kobe deserved it more

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

 ^ Ha 

thats funny saying that nash maybe wasnt the best player on the suns in 2006… i hope thats sarcasm

but now after i read some of this posts 

i feel as if kobe really did deserve the nba for 06 than nash

before i thought nash had deserved more

but kobe and with that roster he had to carry and to still win 45 games and to average 35 a game

is crazy good

but nash that yr still was deserving

but now i feel kobe deserved it more

[surveParticipant]

You may be right about some years.  I dont think this year was a bad call.  I dont think it was about popularity.  Rose is not the most popular player, not even close, nor is he the best player in the league.  Lebron is both.  Then you have Wade, Kobe, KD, Dirk, etc…. So the Rose selection was deserving considering what he did with that Bulls team.  Take Lebron away from the Heat, they would still have been good.  Hate to think about the Bulls without Rose.

[surveParticipant]

You may be right about some years.  I dont think this year was a bad call.  I dont think it was about popularity.  Rose is not the most popular player, not even close, nor is he the best player in the league.  Lebron is both.  Then you have Wade, Kobe, KD, Dirk, etc…. So the Rose selection was deserving considering what he did with that Bulls team.  Take Lebron away from the Heat, they would still have been good.  Hate to think about the Bulls without Rose.

[Toronto16Participant]

Kobe should have won it

[Toronto16Participant]

Kobe should have won it

[LawDeeZeeParticipant]

nobody is saying it’s based soley on wins … and saying the lakers would have been the worst team is obviously nothing more then speculation, there’s no way to verify that – no reason in whining about this anymore because kobe got his MVP trophy in a year when chris paul should have won it, but finished a game behind kobe’s lakers in the standings

… and basketball is not all about stats, anyone who thinks you could have replaced nash that year with billups because some of their numbers are similar is CRAZY! 

[LawDeeZeeParticipant]

nobody is saying it’s based soley on wins … and saying the lakers would have been the worst team is obviously nothing more then speculation, there’s no way to verify that – no reason in whining about this anymore because kobe got his MVP trophy in a year when chris paul should have won it, but finished a game behind kobe’s lakers in the standings

… and basketball is not all about stats, anyone who thinks you could have replaced nash that year with billups because some of their numbers are similar is CRAZY! 

[llperez]

kobe was the best player and meant the most to his team. He should have won.

[llperez]

kobe was the best player and meant the most to his team. He should have won.

[aamir543Participant]

Kobe deserved it three different years, and 08 is not one of them. But yes he definitly desereved it in 06, no doubt about it.

[aamir543Participant]

Kobe deserved it three different years, and 08 is not one of them. But yes he definitly desereved it in 06, no doubt about it.

[Author]

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