[valentine]

Firstly, I’m not here to defend Simmons. But rather, get the the bottom of why he gets more criticism than any other prospect in the NBA Draft history. 

 

Everywhere I look, industry experts are criticising Ben Simmons. I’ve never seen a prospect generate this type of heat before even playing a game. I could write so many examples but just a few recently…

• DX can’t write a good word about him because of the Rich Paul/LBJ Connection
• Tracy McGrady blasted him on ESPN for not saying ‘hello’ cheerfully enough to an NBA suite at Game 6. 
• Kevin Harts taking aim on TV
• Scouts Honor has him ranked #8 on their big board due to his team mates not liking him
• Stu Jackson says he doesn’t think he’s cut out mentally for the NBA
• And if you follow Social Media, the amount of haters is unbelievable

I could go on and on….

Now, admittedly we live in an age where everyone has a platform to express their opinion. But I can’t recall any other previous #1 pick being the target of so much heat. 

My theory is a combination of the following:

1. He’s kinda been dubbed the "chosen one". And people think he’s entitled. Most people prefer someone that had to work their socks off, since they can relate to them easier. 
2. The fact that he’s kinda like an American but isn’t. Like an outsider is beating the ‘yanks’ at their own game…and they feel threatened. Its a unique case Xenophobia that doesn’t really apply to anyone else (Unless Dante Exum starts dominating). 
3. A slander campaign by DX, who won’t endorse anyone that is represented by Rich Paul (or anyone else who refuses to cooperate with them)
4. That he snubbed typical big schools and the NCAA in general. There is nothing more ‘American’ than College Sports, and Simmons showed that he didn’t really care for the system more than anyone else has in the past. People who love college sports hated that. 
5. The Proliferation of Draft Sites and the growth of the NBA Draft as an Annual event. It’s always been big, but it gets bigger every year. Sites need a point of difference, and what better click bait is there than having an alternate opinion on the guy who everyone know will be #1. 

So, I’ve made some controversial statements that I don’t expect everyone to agree with. I’m not here to say whether he’s as good as Magic or Lebron. He could be the next Anthony Bennet…no-one has a Crystal Ball. But but he’s going top 2  regardless. I only want reasons why there’s so much criticism for a guy that is the most talented player in the class (and possibly in a long time). 

Maybe it’s simply that they just don’t like game?

 

 

[J-rueMykelParticipant]

You hit the nail with the hammer.  I’m not as high on Simmons as most but I’m pretty sure he is obviously the most NBA ready and has at minimum the 2nd highest ceiling (Ingram is a very intriguing prosect, but I think he has considerably more bust potential).  I keep hearing he(Simmons) hast bust potential, but I just don’t see it. At the very worst he is Lamar Odom and Odom was a key cog on two championship teams before his ODing was national news, another side note for this social media world we live in.  We got real problems in this world, and the story that sells is Khloe Kardashians husband’s drug overdose. MERICA.

My thoughts on the DX vs. Rich Paul epsiode?
Hillary or Trump 2016.

 

 

 

 

[J-rueMykelParticipant]

You hit the nail with the hammer.  I’m not as high on Simmons as most but I’m pretty sure he is obviously the most NBA ready and has at minimum the 2nd highest ceiling (Ingram is a very intriguing prosect, but I think he has considerably more bust potential).  I keep hearing he(Simmons) hast bust potential, but I just don’t see it. At the very worst he is Lamar Odom and Odom was a key cog on two championship teams before his ODing was national news, another side note for this social media world we live in.  We got real problems in this world, and the story that sells is Khloe Kardashians husband’s drug overdose. MERICA.

My thoughts on the DX vs. Rich Paul epsiode?
Hillary or Trump 2016.

 

 

 

 

[BallerScriptParticipant]

 I know T-Rex’s scouts honor youtube channel is recieving a lot of views but I dont feel like him putting Ben at 8 is evidence

[BallerScriptParticipant]

 I know T-Rex’s scouts honor youtube channel is recieving a lot of views but I dont feel like him putting Ben at 8 is evidence

[Hype Machine]

Lol, I was wondering who would point that out. 

That was just a bit of a light hearted insert cos I know T-Rex still reads the forum and tries his best to to hold his tongue and not get caught up in the banter. 

I figured I’d give him a bit of hype since most people on here would consider him to be doing them a favour by investing his time and efforts elsewhere. 

 

 

 

 

[Hype Machine]

Lol, I was wondering who would point that out. 

That was just a bit of a light hearted insert cos I know T-Rex still reads the forum and tries his best to to hold his tongue and not get caught up in the banter. 

I figured I’d give him a bit of hype since most people on here would consider him to be doing them a favour by investing his time and efforts elsewhere. 

 

 

 

 

[theballerwayParticipant]

 he is still going to be the number 1 pick though so that alone os a testament to how good people think he can be.

He definately comes off as arrogant but so do many highly heralded recruits so I dont care about that, you need a certain cockiness.  I think in this time of constant media reports and minimal privacy in general yet alone for star athletes the microscope just exposed some chinks in his armour. A lot of the early hype had him pegged as a cant miss generational talent (Lebron, Magic comparisons), that was not his doing but thats just how the media ‘hype machine’ blows these young prospect up. Now as time has shown he is a very skilled unique player but Lebron or Magic he is not as a prospect. What he is is Lamar Odom without a jumpshot, at this stage. I know you guys dont like that comparison but they practically mirror each other(look him up as a clipper not a laker) although simmons looks quicker in general. Skill set for skill set and body type you gotta see it. Not that odom was a great shooter but he used the skill, hit an average 33% but on 3 attempts a game. as a Rookie he averaged 16.6/7.8/3.8 at sf for the clip shooting the 3 at 36%. I think those are realistic rook stats for Simmons maybe a point/reb or 2 more. He is not in my eyes a no1 option thats all. Possible good second option and facilitator.

Another thing is that Brandon Ingram is a good looking prospect also and his percieved strength is Simmons weakness so its just an intriguing parallel.

For me I just dont want to trade players away and build my team around him in essentially a Cleveland like fashion with him dominating the ball, I just dont see that player in him. Hopefu;;y the mystical Embiids presence will help philly avoid that. 

 

[theballerwayParticipant]

 he is still going to be the number 1 pick though so that alone os a testament to how good people think he can be.

He definately comes off as arrogant but so do many highly heralded recruits so I dont care about that, you need a certain cockiness.  I think in this time of constant media reports and minimal privacy in general yet alone for star athletes the microscope just exposed some chinks in his armour. A lot of the early hype had him pegged as a cant miss generational talent (Lebron, Magic comparisons), that was not his doing but thats just how the media ‘hype machine’ blows these young prospect up. Now as time has shown he is a very skilled unique player but Lebron or Magic he is not as a prospect. What he is is Lamar Odom without a jumpshot, at this stage. I know you guys dont like that comparison but they practically mirror each other(look him up as a clipper not a laker) although simmons looks quicker in general. Skill set for skill set and body type you gotta see it. Not that odom was a great shooter but he used the skill, hit an average 33% but on 3 attempts a game. as a Rookie he averaged 16.6/7.8/3.8 at sf for the clip shooting the 3 at 36%. I think those are realistic rook stats for Simmons maybe a point/reb or 2 more. He is not in my eyes a no1 option thats all. Possible good second option and facilitator.

Another thing is that Brandon Ingram is a good looking prospect also and his percieved strength is Simmons weakness so its just an intriguing parallel.

For me I just dont want to trade players away and build my team around him in essentially a Cleveland like fashion with him dominating the ball, I just dont see that player in him. Hopefu;;y the mystical Embiids presence will help philly avoid that. 

 

[220Participant]

 Expectations are a heavy burden at times. If Ben Simmons doesn’t perform exactly how people expect in seemingly all aspects then something is wrong with him. Lebron had a little bit of this when he was younger passing away end of the game shots to Damon Jones and Donyell Marshall. "What’s wrong with him, he should be taking those shots!" It’s the burden of expected greatness. If guys don’t perform exactly as expected then there begins to be something wrong with him. It hurt Simmons even more because his team didn’t make the tournament.

[220Participant]

 Expectations are a heavy burden at times. If Ben Simmons doesn’t perform exactly how people expect in seemingly all aspects then something is wrong with him. Lebron had a little bit of this when he was younger passing away end of the game shots to Damon Jones and Donyell Marshall. "What’s wrong with him, he should be taking those shots!" It’s the burden of expected greatness. If guys don’t perform exactly as expected then there begins to be something wrong with him. It hurt Simmons even more because his team didn’t make the tournament.

[binetParticipant]

 The way he plays, or at least the way he has played so far in NCAA or prior it’s obvious he is talented and kind of unique, but I understand why there are so much doubters, after all LSU did not even make it to the March Madness and had a bad season. He seemed to not progress at all during this whole NCAA year, putting bigger numbers at the beginning of the season and not showing anything new and interesting as of december. Both these aspects are somewhat more due to LSU than himself but brings doubt.

Finally, and even if he has the apparent IQ/passing potential to be different, he has similarities with recent epic draft busts like Michael Beasley, Derrick Williams and such. The presumed 6’10" with shady measurements (Simmons as well as those guys do not look as tall as it says) that supposedly could be a 3 or a 4 is not really the formula for success in the NBA recently. The Magic took the bet recently with Aaron Gordon, and although I think he was not worth being taken over a Julius Randle it’s possible he will have more success. The passing ability though makes all the difference though between Simmons and those guys, and it’s the reason why he should succeed.

 

 

 

 

[Hype Machine]

 6’10" in shoes is legit. Short wingspan.

I believe KAT is actually a height liar. WCS is 7’1" and in all pics from Kentucky days appears to have 3 inches on 7’0" KAT.

A recent Foot Locker ad shows Simmons and KAT are the same height. I also saw Simmons in a pic with Lebron and has 2-3 inches on him.

Someone else do some comparison pics and let me know what you think..but Im calling out KAT as being 6’10".

[tblazer_NZParticipant]

KAT seems to be the same or very similar to Okafor, who’s listed at 6’10. He isn’t a 7 footer.

KAT is in the NBA now and not a prospect so what does it matter now?

 

[tblazer_NZParticipant]

KAT seems to be the same or very similar to Okafor, who’s listed at 6’10. He isn’t a 7 footer.

KAT is in the NBA now and not a prospect so what does it matter now?

 

[Hype Machine]

 6’10" in shoes is legit. Short wingspan.

I believe KAT is actually a height liar. WCS is 7’1" and in all pics from Kentucky days appears to have 3 inches on 7’0" KAT.

A recent Foot Locker ad shows Simmons and KAT are the same height. I also saw Simmons in a pic with Lebron and has 2-3 inches on him.

Someone else do some comparison pics and let me know what you think..but Im calling out KAT as being 6’10".

[binetParticipant]

 The way he plays, or at least the way he has played so far in NCAA or prior it’s obvious he is talented and kind of unique, but I understand why there are so much doubters, after all LSU did not even make it to the March Madness and had a bad season. He seemed to not progress at all during this whole NCAA year, putting bigger numbers at the beginning of the season and not showing anything new and interesting as of december. Both these aspects are somewhat more due to LSU than himself but brings doubt.

Finally, and even if he has the apparent IQ/passing potential to be different, he has similarities with recent epic draft busts like Michael Beasley, Derrick Williams and such. The presumed 6’10" with shady measurements (Simmons as well as those guys do not look as tall as it says) that supposedly could be a 3 or a 4 is not really the formula for success in the NBA recently. The Magic took the bet recently with Aaron Gordon, and although I think he was not worth being taken over a Julius Randle it’s possible he will have more success. The passing ability though makes all the difference though between Simmons and those guys, and it’s the reason why he should succeed.

 

 

 

 

[Andv1 WaitingParticipant]

I think he will be a good player ,have no hate for him at all and hope he has a solid career 

But here are some reasons/Banter then.

”Fans” of the game may ”Hate” him a little already for legit reasons though..

Non basketball: 

Failing College:…His GPA was apparently very low yet most people seem to at least handle this for one year…Which people may take as him not having a high IQ or that he lacks drive to succeed..

I know it would only hurt his stock by working out but:Not working out when you are the supposed number 1 pick doesn’t exactly scream allstar to people.As allstars,Potential franchise players take that challenge and run with it…Heck even though Ingram probably knew he stood no chance he took a swing for that number 1 spot which is a lot more endearing to people and helps build your brand with fans of potential team you could end up with…

The uninterupted videos/lebron clone videos : What agency you are signing with-No one cares unless the media(Draft day media stuff really) asks you why do we need to know this??, Who you are signing you shoe deal with no one cares that is what professional marketers are for let them do the talking for you…When/IF you win R.O.Y or get invited to the Allstar week for rookie game then put out a video to thank people or something..But not this unnecessary rubbish..

His personality can come across as arogant/brash and the subtle/convenient twitter jabs he is taking doesn’t exactly scream classy and should stop now as it doesn’t scream maturity either see D’angello Russell how that goes(his ex team mate at HS)..The Sources reference,T-mac mentions him not by name in not so nice way on ESPN and guess what happens a reference to set incident without mentioning him and mentioning only Bill Russell(Classic lebron passive aggresive move-K-love call outs essentially) ..Dude just say nothing and take the higher road and let your game do the talking …Just in general his media Silence/handling sucks balls see Ingram how you should do it if you are a top pick F.Y.I 

The fact that he’s kinda like an American but isn’t. Like an outsider is beating the ‘yanks’ at their own game…and they feel threatened. Its a unique case Xenophobia that doesn’t really apply to anyone else (Unless Dante Exum starts dominating).——  GTFOH on this point…Its not unique at all see last two drafts: Towns(domincan mum+ american dad) who has played for Dominican Republic and Wiggins has played for Canada (Canadian mum+ American Dad) so this point is the poo Emoji right now(due to you trying to use race for the hate its solely personality and skills dude nothing more) .This is without even mentioning Andrew Bogut went Number 1 overall in a much deeper draft and he also went to a small time college UTAH …Who is Australian that had no hate/very little hate(That I’m aware of) so yeah nahh on this point.. 

Draft site media:They will just be saying what the teams or agents have told/allowed them to leak..So both are to blame there really plus most of the flaws said about simmons even a basic fan will know about these  that can watch a youtube video…Also see Simmons is number 1 ranked on the site you have mentioned…So yeah I don’t think there is any bias and that point is kind of moot there..It just hasn’t been unamious  thats all which happens with mocks which tend to be fluid right up to the draft unless there is a consensus number 1(Think LBJ Blake g as examples of this)..

 

Now Basketball playing wise:

The not making the tournament hurt him…Big time if Mike Beasley can drag a bunch of scrubs to the tourney(a team worse than LSU and a smaller program) and he was considered a Mello Clone(at the time)  and Simmons is Considered a Lebron Clone then how come he didn’t even make the tournament??Lebron would have dragged scrubs anywhere hell see 2007final vs spurs or HS titles if you want proof of that.. I could also list other ”Allstar players” that went further than than Simmons with less if you really want me to…

That Jumpshot-Every one know that its a work in progress I wont say anymore…

The deffering to other players when you are the supposed chosen one isn’t going to cut it and he will really really need to sort this if he wants to ever be anything more than a Starter/role player in the league…As that is number 1 picks like he wants to be should has to be…

All of these are valid concerns for people if their team is picking number 1 so hate may be a strong word but I just see it as people  being concerned to the direction the draft/league is heading that is all..Which is a fair point as no one wants to watch a rubbish product…

 

 

 

 

[Andv1 WaitingParticipant]

I think he will be a good player ,have no hate for him at all and hope he has a solid career 

But here are some reasons/Banter then.

”Fans” of the game may ”Hate” him a little already for legit reasons though..

Non basketball: 

Failing College:…His GPA was apparently very low yet most people seem to at least handle this for one year…Which people may take as him not having a high IQ or that he lacks drive to succeed..

I know it would only hurt his stock by working out but:Not working out when you are the supposed number 1 pick doesn’t exactly scream allstar to people.As allstars,Potential franchise players take that challenge and run with it…Heck even though Ingram probably knew he stood no chance he took a swing for that number 1 spot which is a lot more endearing to people and helps build your brand with fans of potential team you could end up with…

The uninterupted videos/lebron clone videos : What agency you are signing with-No one cares unless the media(Draft day media stuff really) asks you why do we need to know this??, Who you are signing you shoe deal with no one cares that is what professional marketers are for let them do the talking for you…When/IF you win R.O.Y or get invited to the Allstar week for rookie game then put out a video to thank people or something..But not this unnecessary rubbish..

His personality can come across as arogant/brash and the subtle/convenient twitter jabs he is taking doesn’t exactly scream classy and should stop now as it doesn’t scream maturity either see D’angello Russell how that goes(his ex team mate at HS)..The Sources reference,T-mac mentions him not by name in not so nice way on ESPN and guess what happens a reference to set incident without mentioning him and mentioning only Bill Russell(Classic lebron passive aggresive move-K-love call outs essentially) ..Dude just say nothing and take the higher road and let your game do the talking …Just in general his media Silence/handling sucks balls see Ingram how you should do it if you are a top pick F.Y.I 

The fact that he’s kinda like an American but isn’t. Like an outsider is beating the ‘yanks’ at their own game…and they feel threatened. Its a unique case Xenophobia that doesn’t really apply to anyone else (Unless Dante Exum starts dominating).——  GTFOH on this point…Its not unique at all see last two drafts: Towns(domincan mum+ american dad) who has played for Dominican Republic and Wiggins has played for Canada (Canadian mum+ American Dad) so this point is the poo Emoji right now(due to you trying to use race for the hate its solely personality and skills dude nothing more) .This is without even mentioning Andrew Bogut went Number 1 overall in a much deeper draft and he also went to a small time college UTAH …Who is Australian that had no hate/very little hate(That I’m aware of) so yeah nahh on this point.. 

Draft site media:They will just be saying what the teams or agents have told/allowed them to leak..So both are to blame there really plus most of the flaws said about simmons even a basic fan will know about these  that can watch a youtube video…Also see Simmons is number 1 ranked on the site you have mentioned…So yeah I don’t think there is any bias and that point is kind of moot there..It just hasn’t been unamious  thats all which happens with mocks which tend to be fluid right up to the draft unless there is a consensus number 1(Think LBJ Blake g as examples of this)..

 

Now Basketball playing wise:

The not making the tournament hurt him…Big time if Mike Beasley can drag a bunch of scrubs to the tourney(a team worse than LSU and a smaller program) and he was considered a Mello Clone(at the time)  and Simmons is Considered a Lebron Clone then how come he didn’t even make the tournament??Lebron would have dragged scrubs anywhere hell see 2007final vs spurs or HS titles if you want proof of that.. I could also list other ”Allstar players” that went further than than Simmons with less if you really want me to…

That Jumpshot-Every one know that its a work in progress I wont say anymore…

The deffering to other players when you are the supposed chosen one isn’t going to cut it and he will really really need to sort this if he wants to ever be anything more than a Starter/role player in the league…As that is number 1 picks like he wants to be should has to be…

All of these are valid concerns for people if their team is picking number 1 so hate may be a strong word but I just see it as people  being concerned to the direction the draft/league is heading that is all..Which is a fair point as no one wants to watch a rubbish product…

 

 

 

 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

This stuff happens just about every year. Andre Drummond was raked over the coals over his body language and “motor.” Jahlil Okafor had a phenominal season at Duke that included a title, and was still picked apart. Kyrie Irving was considered an entitled diva who lacked elite traits. Wiggins didn’t get it quite as bad as others, but his mentality and aggressiveness were called into question. This is CYA stuff, click bait stuff, and in the case of Kevin Hart please see my clearly awful movie stuff.

ESPN headlines this morning:
Will LeBron pass Michael Jordan for greatest of all time?
Is the Stephen Curry revolution over already?
Don’t be surprised if LeBron leaves Cleveland again
Will LeBron return? Should Cavs trade Love?
NFL Front Office: Are the Jets blowing it with Fitzpatrick?

Is it really all that different from the sponsored links at the bottom of every web page?

It isn’t right to compare anyone to LeBron. Simmons is not LeBron. He is, however, the best player in the draft. In a draft where almost everyone is a guy who will need to luck into a good fit, he is a talent teams can fit around and build around.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

This stuff happens just about every year. Andre Drummond was raked over the coals over his body language and “motor.” Jahlil Okafor had a phenominal season at Duke that included a title, and was still picked apart. Kyrie Irving was considered an entitled diva who lacked elite traits. Wiggins didn’t get it quite as bad as others, but his mentality and aggressiveness were called into question. This is CYA stuff, click bait stuff, and in the case of Kevin Hart please see my clearly awful movie stuff.

ESPN headlines this morning:
Will LeBron pass Michael Jordan for greatest of all time?
Is the Stephen Curry revolution over already?
Don’t be surprised if LeBron leaves Cleveland again
Will LeBron return? Should Cavs trade Love?
NFL Front Office: Are the Jets blowing it with Fitzpatrick?

Is it really all that different from the sponsored links at the bottom of every web page?

It isn’t right to compare anyone to LeBron. Simmons is not LeBron. He is, however, the best player in the draft. In a draft where almost everyone is a guy who will need to luck into a good fit, he is a talent teams can fit around and build around.

[kobyzParticipant]

I never saw prospect so hype by ignoring his lack of determination and not having enough star power according to big deta analyst…

[kobyzParticipant]

I never saw prospect so hype by ignoring his lack of determination and not having enough star power according to big deta analyst…

[nill650Participant]

 The bottom line really is that there is no other player in this draft with as much skill in every other category besides shooting. If they can’t get the 3rd, they will take Simmons

With what Philly needs , it would actually make sense for them to take Ingram @ 1 if they can get the 3rd from Boston for Okafor… then take Dunn @ 3

Dunn, wings drafted later Beasley/Luwawu etc, Ingram , Noel,Embiid.

better team in 2 years than if they just take Simmons:

backup pg as starter, McCaw or similar late 1st project wing,Simmons,Noel,Okafor/Embiid

or if they can pull it off take Simmons @ 1 and Brown at 3 in a trade giving boston Okafor and the rights to Saric and receiving Thomas,the 1st round pick @ 3 and 2 early 2nd round picks

Thomas/Whitehead,Beasley/Stauskas,Brown/Tokoto,Simmons/Wood,Embiid,Noel.

 

[nill650Participant]

 The bottom line really is that there is no other player in this draft with as much skill in every other category besides shooting. If they can’t get the 3rd, they will take Simmons

With what Philly needs , it would actually make sense for them to take Ingram @ 1 if they can get the 3rd from Boston for Okafor… then take Dunn @ 3

Dunn, wings drafted later Beasley/Luwawu etc, Ingram , Noel,Embiid.

better team in 2 years than if they just take Simmons:

backup pg as starter, McCaw or similar late 1st project wing,Simmons,Noel,Okafor/Embiid

or if they can pull it off take Simmons @ 1 and Brown at 3 in a trade giving boston Okafor and the rights to Saric and receiving Thomas,the 1st round pick @ 3 and 2 early 2nd round picks

Thomas/Whitehead,Beasley/Stauskas,Brown/Tokoto,Simmons/Wood,Embiid,Noel.

 

[r377Participant]

Allen Iverson with his gangster/hood attitude and his streetball style of play had more haters than Ben Simmons leading up to his draft day…..

[r377Participant]

Allen Iverson with his gangster/hood attitude and his streetball style of play had more haters than Ben Simmons leading up to his draft day…..

[CU.LIONSParticipant]

I just think with social media these days it’s a lot easier to see and hear about “hating” then in the past, however there does seem to be a bit of “being entitled” in Ben Simmons. but being that he is still such a young man, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him some time to grow up.

I know I wasn’t the most mature man at his age either.

[CU.LIONSParticipant]

I just think with social media these days it’s a lot easier to see and hear about “hating” then in the past, however there does seem to be a bit of “being entitled” in Ben Simmons. but being that he is still such a young man, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him some time to grow up.

I know I wasn’t the most mature man at his age either.

[Author]

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