[The Scare Crow RisesParticipant]

 Less than a week away from the Draft, the 76ers have to make one of the hardest choices at the very top…

Do you take the old school approach of building through a 1 vs 1 generational talent in the vein of Cleveland or do you move towards the new school Pace and Space approach ala Golden State?

For an entire season we’ve talked about the negative effects of traditional Isolation basketball, we see teams like the Spurs and Warriors amass success playing a team oriented game and we figure eveyone should follow the same model, to the point we’ve turned on individual talents like Harden/Okafor

Well, the Spurs were eliminated by an old school Iso ball team in OKC, who were 1 win away from joining another fellow old school team in the finals before the NBA fumbled on the obvious non-suspension of Draymond Green, we’ll talk conspiracies at a different date though

At the Moment, we stand on the egde of an exiting yet suspiscously convenient game 7 between the ideological equivalents to the Old and New Guard, with all the signs pointing to LeBron exercising the demons haunting an entire State’s collective soul with one win, thus evening the series between he and Curry at setting up the inevitable rubber match next year…Curry vs James part 3

Than in a week, the 76ers take center stage in the debate when they make their decision…

Do they take the old school approach, draft Ben Simmon and build around his individual talents as a player going 1 vs 1 and running the show at SF/PF?

OR, do they make a step towards the future of Pace and Space and take Ingram or Murray based on Team fit and shooting ability?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[holefillers1Participant]

 It comes down to players.  You have to cater to your talent. This team will be built around Simmons and Embiid and may be a combo of both styles.  Simmons on the break, Embiid on the block.  Add athletic guys who can shoot and defend and you can play how ever you want.

[holefillers1Participant]

 It comes down to players.  You have to cater to your talent. This team will be built around Simmons and Embiid and may be a combo of both styles.  Simmons on the break, Embiid on the block.  Add athletic guys who can shoot and defend and you can play how ever you want.

[I am an idiotParticipant]

 It is pretty obvious that Hinkie was Old School. Keep tanking until you land the next LeBron. 

Historically, that is not a bad strategy. Over the last 50 years almost 75% of the rings have been won by teams led by one of a dozen guys. Of the rest, almost all of them have had an MVP-winner on the team. 

This is a superstar league. The success of GSW and the Spurs doesn’t change that, given that Curry and Duncan are on their rosters.

If you think that Simmons has a reasonable chance to be a Curry/Duncan/LeBron caliber player, then you pick him. You don’t trade the pick away unless Durant, LeBron or Curry are coming in return. 

The problem is that guys like that aren’t available every year (they come around five or so years on average). Therefore the need for multiple tanks.

 

 

 

 

[I am an idiotParticipant]

 It is pretty obvious that Hinkie was Old School. Keep tanking until you land the next LeBron. 

Historically, that is not a bad strategy. Over the last 50 years almost 75% of the rings have been won by teams led by one of a dozen guys. Of the rest, almost all of them have had an MVP-winner on the team. 

This is a superstar league. The success of GSW and the Spurs doesn’t change that, given that Curry and Duncan are on their rosters.

If you think that Simmons has a reasonable chance to be a Curry/Duncan/LeBron caliber player, then you pick him. You don’t trade the pick away unless Durant, LeBron or Curry are coming in return. 

The problem is that guys like that aren’t available every year (they come around five or so years on average). Therefore the need for multiple tanks.

 

 

 

 

[treytalkssports.comParticipant]

 I gave the OP a +1 just because of the crafted post. It was really well-written and interesting. 

I don’t agree. I think you take Simmons no matter what, but interesting idea. 

 

 

[treytalkssports.comParticipant]

 I gave the OP a +1 just because of the crafted post. It was really well-written and interesting. 

I don’t agree. I think you take Simmons no matter what, but interesting idea. 

 

 

[trombonematrix43Participant]

 Gotta appreciate a well thought out and coherent post, even if you don’t agree with the concept behind it. That’s what this site is all about, right?? *looks at t-rex wherever he’s hiding*

[Hype Machine]

 

T-Rex has started an online NBA draft  resource called "Scouts Honor". Some of his stuff is worth a look, and probably isn’t what you’d expect. 

His twitter handle is @scoutshonorball and he also posts youtube videos, some of which have over 150k views. 

His videos are different than what you’d expect if you only read his draftnet posts. And he’s actually quite articulate. 

If you check out his twitter page, there’s links to his draft videos on youtube. Unfortunately this site doesn’t let me post the link directly.

 

[Hype Machine]

 

T-Rex has started an online NBA draft  resource called "Scouts Honor". Some of his stuff is worth a look, and probably isn’t what you’d expect. 

His twitter handle is @scoutshonorball and he also posts youtube videos, some of which have over 150k views. 

His videos are different than what you’d expect if you only read his draftnet posts. And he’s actually quite articulate. 

If you check out his twitter page, there’s links to his draft videos on youtube. Unfortunately this site doesn’t let me post the link directly.

 

[trombonematrix43Participant]

 Gotta appreciate a well thought out and coherent post, even if you don’t agree with the concept behind it. That’s what this site is all about, right?? *looks at t-rex wherever he’s hiding*

[mopoParticipant]

Simmons is big enough to play small ball 5 in a "new school" system. I don’t know how his versatility could be defined as of a certain era. 

[mopoParticipant]

Simmons is big enough to play small ball 5 in a "new school" system. I don’t know how his versatility could be defined as of a certain era. 

[Andv1 WaitingParticipant]

 Lets be honest here no one believes the 76ers aren’t picking Simmons(there are to many obvious signs showing its happening).

So my question for everyone is this instead: Do you start Simmons straight away?

Or

Put Simmons in a 6th man role this season/at least until the trade deadline and build up the value of the talent you already have to get better assets(Noel/Okafor/Embiid mainly).

While letting Simmons learn multiple positions(PG/SF/PF/C) instead and at a lower minute volume intially(20-30 max),like Towns/Russell did this last season then let them lose for the second half of the season/post Allstar Weekend…

 

 

 

 

[The Scare Crow RisesParticipant]

 IMO here is what I think will happen

1. Draft Simmons, Jackson and Bembry with 1, 24 and 26

2. Dangle Okafor or Noel for a young G (Dunn, Murray, Hield, Lavine, Knight, Bledsoe, Teague, Schroder, Olapido or Russell) if they cant get one of those guys they’ll just roll with Ben at the SF spot full time from day 1, although I feel like a deal gets done. Most likely for Dunn/Hield/Olapido to play off ball…

3. Sign a good locker room guy/fan favorite type in Mathew Delladova to play starting PG

4. Start Delladova/player X via trade/Covington/Simmons/Noel

5. Bring in D.Jackson/Stauskas/Bembry/Saric/Embiid/Grant off the bench

6. Let Ish Smith, TJ McConnell, Isaiah Canaan, Jakaar Sampson and Hollis Thompson go I BEG YOU 

 

 

 

[chall23Participant]

 Jakarr Sampsons on the Nuggets man he got waived in that failed D-MO trade because the Pistons were sending Joel Anthony to the sixers. 

[chall23Participant]

 Jakarr Sampsons on the Nuggets man he got waived in that failed D-MO trade because the Pistons were sending Joel Anthony to the sixers. 

[The Scare Crow RisesParticipant]

 IMO here is what I think will happen

1. Draft Simmons, Jackson and Bembry with 1, 24 and 26

2. Dangle Okafor or Noel for a young G (Dunn, Murray, Hield, Lavine, Knight, Bledsoe, Teague, Schroder, Olapido or Russell) if they cant get one of those guys they’ll just roll with Ben at the SF spot full time from day 1, although I feel like a deal gets done. Most likely for Dunn/Hield/Olapido to play off ball…

3. Sign a good locker room guy/fan favorite type in Mathew Delladova to play starting PG

4. Start Delladova/player X via trade/Covington/Simmons/Noel

5. Bring in D.Jackson/Stauskas/Bembry/Saric/Embiid/Grant off the bench

6. Let Ish Smith, TJ McConnell, Isaiah Canaan, Jakaar Sampson and Hollis Thompson go I BEG YOU 

 

 

 

[Andv1 WaitingParticipant]

 Lets be honest here no one believes the 76ers aren’t picking Simmons(there are to many obvious signs showing its happening).

So my question for everyone is this instead: Do you start Simmons straight away?

Or

Put Simmons in a 6th man role this season/at least until the trade deadline and build up the value of the talent you already have to get better assets(Noel/Okafor/Embiid mainly).

While letting Simmons learn multiple positions(PG/SF/PF/C) instead and at a lower minute volume intially(20-30 max),like Towns/Russell did this last season then let them lose for the second half of the season/post Allstar Weekend…

 

 

 

 

[nill650Participant]

I think Simmons is the best prospect in the draft like most people, but that does’nt make me think for a second there is’nt a legitimate chance they pick Kris Dunn at 1 over Ingram, who could be a poor mans KD but is not KD. where as Dunn will be John Wall 2.0 guaranteed.

[nill650Participant]

I think Simmons is the best prospect in the draft like most people, but that does’nt make me think for a second there is’nt a legitimate chance they pick Kris Dunn at 1 over Ingram, who could be a poor mans KD but is not KD. where as Dunn will be John Wall 2.0 guaranteed.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 Interesting idea i would say the playoffs in general with the success of Cleveland and OKC have already reinforced this being a superstar league and Simmons is that star.

 

I was one of the first back in Decemver promoting the idea of Ingram goingb1st but after the smoke cleared Simmons is far and away the better player and prospect and Ingram isnt that higher then Murray and Brown honestly

 

 

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 Interesting idea i would say the playoffs in general with the success of Cleveland and OKC have already reinforced this being a superstar league and Simmons is that star.

 

I was one of the first back in Decemver promoting the idea of Ingram goingb1st but after the smoke cleared Simmons is far and away the better player and prospect and Ingram isnt that higher then Murray and Brown honestly

 

 

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 With that said I wouldnt trade Okafor unless it could net us Murray or Hield back who i think are the 2nd n 4th best prospects and future stars.

 

Take away everything else and the idea of building around Simmons and Okafor is huge and points to a bright future

 

 

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 With that said I wouldnt trade Okafor unless it could net us Murray or Hield back who i think are the 2nd n 4th best prospects and future stars.

 

Take away everything else and the idea of building around Simmons and Okafor is huge and points to a bright future

 

 

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 Cleveland just learned what happens when you try to beat Golden State at their own game………. After being Wiped out thru 4 games……. They switched to a rugged 1/2 court Style & Found their Own identity……..

& now they have a chance……….

Teams believing they can emmulate the Warriors will be as successful as teams who thought they could emmulate the "Showtime" Lakers of the 80’s……….

All they will accomplish is the creation of a Very poor watered down version of the Real thing………

If Embiid is healthy – & it appears that he is…….. the Sixers MIGHT have the equivalent of Shaq & Kobe or Magic & Kareem but w/o the age difference…….. That is Insane……….

Joel Embiid was only one of a handful of Propsects who has Ever been rated Tier 1 by espn……. Ben Simmons is another…… the Sixers could be scary…….. Unless Bryan Colangelo Fooks it up……….

 

 

 

 

 

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 Cleveland just learned what happens when you try to beat Golden State at their own game………. After being Wiped out thru 4 games……. They switched to a rugged 1/2 court Style & Found their Own identity……..

& now they have a chance……….

Teams believing they can emmulate the Warriors will be as successful as teams who thought they could emmulate the "Showtime" Lakers of the 80’s……….

All they will accomplish is the creation of a Very poor watered down version of the Real thing………

If Embiid is healthy – & it appears that he is…….. the Sixers MIGHT have the equivalent of Shaq & Kobe or Magic & Kareem but w/o the age difference…….. That is Insane……….

Joel Embiid was only one of a handful of Propsects who has Ever been rated Tier 1 by espn……. Ben Simmons is another…… the Sixers could be scary…….. Unless Bryan Colangelo Fooks it up……….

 

 

 

 

 

[The GoatParticipant]

 CLE and GSW both have obviously built an effective way. One person could just have a bad game 7 or pick up an injury and it affects the outcome, it doesn’t mean the losing team doesn’t have a model worth following. 

The Sixers will choose Simmons but Embiid is key as Ben isn’t a scorer. He needs guys to pass to. They may make no other moves and/or tank again for all we know. 

 

[The GoatParticipant]

 CLE and GSW both have obviously built an effective way. One person could just have a bad game 7 or pick up an injury and it affects the outcome, it doesn’t mean the losing team doesn’t have a model worth following. 

The Sixers will choose Simmons but Embiid is key as Ben isn’t a scorer. He needs guys to pass to. They may make no other moves and/or tank again for all we know. 

 

[circumlocution75Participant]

 When he scored More PPG & shot 55% compared to Ingram’s 46% in FG% on a Much worse team………

I’m not knocking Ingram….. I like Both players a lot……. But how did we get to the point where the guy who Averaged 18 pts per game on 46% shooting is a "Better" scorer than the guy who averaged 20 pts per gam on 55% shooting??????

And now we’re claiming that Simmons is Not a scorer           It’s pretty clear that Simmons can do Whatever he wants on a Basketball court

And personally after watching the Unibrow Anthony Davis Completely reconstruct his shot to become a Great scorer at the NBA level

Simmons’ Mechanics look just Fine to me……. He goes to the Rim b/c in his Words ——– "It’s the higher % play b/c breaking down the Defender allows me to get a better shot or pas to a wide open defense when the help rotates ——– by Settling for a Jump shot too often I am Letting the Defense off the hook & that Hurts my Team ——- And isn’t That what this game is All about ——– Making the Smart decision for the Team???"

Pretty Mature for a Teen-ager 

 

 

 

[circumlocution75Participant]

 When he scored More PPG & shot 55% compared to Ingram’s 46% in FG% on a Much worse team………

I’m not knocking Ingram….. I like Both players a lot……. But how did we get to the point where the guy who Averaged 18 pts per game on 46% shooting is a "Better" scorer than the guy who averaged 20 pts per gam on 55% shooting??????

And now we’re claiming that Simmons is Not a scorer           It’s pretty clear that Simmons can do Whatever he wants on a Basketball court

And personally after watching the Unibrow Anthony Davis Completely reconstruct his shot to become a Great scorer at the NBA level

Simmons’ Mechanics look just Fine to me……. He goes to the Rim b/c in his Words ——– "It’s the higher % play b/c breaking down the Defender allows me to get a better shot or pas to a wide open defense when the help rotates ——– by Settling for a Jump shot too often I am Letting the Defense off the hook & that Hurts my Team ——- And isn’t That what this game is All about ——– Making the Smart decision for the Team???"

Pretty Mature for a Teen-ager 

 

 

 

[Andv1 WaitingParticipant]

@ circumlocution75

I think both players have unique skill sets and will be solid pros with great futures  ahead of them(barring injuries).

The reason there is some form of debate is this if there is any about who is a better ”scorer” maybe this:

Ben Simmons range was mainly 5-7 ft which resulted in the higher percentage, he was able to use his physical tools at the college to get easy looks at this range(which he may not be able to do as easily at the next level due to bigger and stronger opponents).The further he went out the worse his percentages went the meaning the more limited he became(compared to ingram).

So when people look at his stats the see inflation due to being on a bad/average team with limited options, which didn’t even make the tournament(Think K-love timberwolves stats vs K-love stats Cavs as an nba example of this kind of inflation)…

Vs 

Ingram was on a better team that was able to go further in the tournament/make the tournament and he was a key component for this ..However what it mainly comes down to is that Ingram can currently can score in a greater variety of methods than Simmons:

With a mid range,long range and some close range game(though he will need to get tougher/put weight on to finish at the rim like simmons)…Which makes his stats look less inflated due to wider variety of scoring methods used and playing on a better team while doing it..

At the next level I see at least initially this happening which may also explain some peoples opinions: 

Simmons game should be more well rounded than ingrams but will have less options to score at the next level,at least intially until the game slows down for him and his shot progresses. I see Ben’s intial scoring coming off: Give and goes/back door cuts,Put backs/Dunks,Post ups,Fast breaks,With Simmons possibly struggling in the half court when things slow down(due to not being able to bully his way to the hoop like college and a not very reliable jumper at this point)..

Vs 
Ingram who has a wider range of offensive moves he can score off currently :Fastbreaks,Put backs(depending on what position he plays due to length),Iso’s,Curling off screens,Corner 3’s/3 pointers,give and goes/Back door cuts,Pull up jumpers,catch and shoot scenarios and can be effective if the game is fast or slows down to a half court game..

The only issue I see Ingram having is that he may struggle finishing through contact and posting up due to weight,but its hard to say if he puts on sufficient weight before the regular season starts if it really will be an issue(as season is stil far away)…

So overall Ingram should be the better ”pure scorer” of the two assuming he is given the same/similar opportunites as Simmons to show case his abilities(minutes/touches in other words)..

 

 

 

 

 

[Andv1 WaitingParticipant]

@ circumlocution75

I think both players have unique skill sets and will be solid pros with great futures  ahead of them(barring injuries).

The reason there is some form of debate is this if there is any about who is a better ”scorer” maybe this:

Ben Simmons range was mainly 5-7 ft which resulted in the higher percentage, he was able to use his physical tools at the college to get easy looks at this range(which he may not be able to do as easily at the next level due to bigger and stronger opponents).The further he went out the worse his percentages went the meaning the more limited he became(compared to ingram).

So when people look at his stats the see inflation due to being on a bad/average team with limited options, which didn’t even make the tournament(Think K-love timberwolves stats vs K-love stats Cavs as an nba example of this kind of inflation)…

Vs 

Ingram was on a better team that was able to go further in the tournament/make the tournament and he was a key component for this ..However what it mainly comes down to is that Ingram can currently can score in a greater variety of methods than Simmons:

With a mid range,long range and some close range game(though he will need to get tougher/put weight on to finish at the rim like simmons)…Which makes his stats look less inflated due to wider variety of scoring methods used and playing on a better team while doing it..

At the next level I see at least initially this happening which may also explain some peoples opinions: 

Simmons game should be more well rounded than ingrams but will have less options to score at the next level,at least intially until the game slows down for him and his shot progresses. I see Ben’s intial scoring coming off: Give and goes/back door cuts,Put backs/Dunks,Post ups,Fast breaks,With Simmons possibly struggling in the half court when things slow down(due to not being able to bully his way to the hoop like college and a not very reliable jumper at this point)..

Vs 
Ingram who has a wider range of offensive moves he can score off currently :Fastbreaks,Put backs(depending on what position he plays due to length),Iso’s,Curling off screens,Corner 3’s/3 pointers,give and goes/Back door cuts,Pull up jumpers,catch and shoot scenarios and can be effective if the game is fast or slows down to a half court game..

The only issue I see Ingram having is that he may struggle finishing through contact and posting up due to weight,but its hard to say if he puts on sufficient weight before the regular season starts if it really will be an issue(as season is stil far away)…

So overall Ingram should be the better ”pure scorer” of the two assuming he is given the same/similar opportunites as Simmons to show case his abilities(minutes/touches in other words)..

 

 

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 I agree with both of you to an extent. Alot of what made Simmons effective at the college level will be more difficult at the pro level against stronger, more athletic, longer and more savvy players. Yet at the same time Simmons style of scoring could easily have him leading the league in free throw attempts. Here’s an interesting stat noone seems to be taking into consideration.

Simmons averaged 67% FT on 9 attempts per game while Ingram averaged 68% FT on 5 attempts per game.

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 I agree with both of you to an extent. Alot of what made Simmons effective at the college level will be more difficult at the pro level against stronger, more athletic, longer and more savvy players. Yet at the same time Simmons style of scoring could easily have him leading the league in free throw attempts. Here’s an interesting stat noone seems to be taking into consideration.

Simmons averaged 67% FT on 9 attempts per game while Ingram averaged 68% FT on 5 attempts per game.

 

 

[Author]

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