[McDunkin]

Raptors general manager Bryan Colangelo had some pointed comments to make about Chris Bosh during an interview with Toronto’s FAN 590 on Monday.

Bosh left for the Heat in free agency, although the Raptors were able to work a sign-and-trade for some long-term assets.

“We tried in vain to put pieces around Chris. Different pieces, different styles. It didn’t work out,” Colangelo said of building a roster around his former cornerstone.

“No matter what type of player we brought in, it didn’t seem to have the right mix with him as that centerpiece.”

Colangelo also hinted that Bosh checked out on the team near the end of the 2009-10 season, knowing his career in Toronto was likely over.

“Despite limited swelling and any excessive damage on an MRI, he felt like he needed to sit for six more games … I’m not even questioning Chris’ injury. I’m telling you he was cleared to play subject to tolerance on his part, and the tolerance just apparently wasn’t there and he chose not to play,” Colangelo continued.

“The fact that our season was spiraling downward and we were hoping he’d come back sooner and we were also dealing with a few other things at that point … we were really struggling there.”

Colangelo didn’t stop there.

“Whether he was mentally checked out or just wasn’t quite into it down the stretch, he wasn’t the same guy. I think everybody saw that, but no one wanted to acknowledge it,” he continued.

“At the same time, I never felt we were quite in the game (in terms of signing Bosh to a new contract). There was too much out there, too much built up for him to take an easy out here, and he decided to do that.”

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68378/20100727/colangelo_says_bosh_was_hard_to_build_around/#ixzz0utEw3TXD

[Toronto16Participant]

In other words, Colangelo is saying Bosh was not a franchise player, and that he quit on the team in the latter stages of the season.

[Toronto16Participant]

Then again, Colangelo is the same GM that thinks Andrea Bargnani is a franchise player.

[WrecklessParticipant]

What team did he try to put around Bosh?
Turkuglo? (Or However you spell his name), Calderon, Barnangi?
Cmon thats bullshit.

[SubZeroParticipant]

Bargnani’s not bad Wreckless, but they need a true C so he could play his natural position at PF, which he couldn’t with Bosh and probably won’t get many minutes there with Davis. DeRozan will be good, Sonny Weems has been improving, Jarret Jack is decent…Turkoglu was a pretty bad pickup though

[WrecklessParticipant]

He’s not bad, but why get another PF In the draft, I knew he was the consensus #1 pick but jeez.
It was a bad fit from the start.

[Toronto16Participant]

Bargnani was NOT the consensus #1. Not even in that weak draft.

[NashyMingParticipant]

BC is too late to realize this fact.

Bosh was never a franchise player to build around with. He’s a very good 2nd option or 3rd fiddle, but he’s not someone you would build a franchise with. He’s a Robin.

I never thought the Raptors would get to ECF (2nd round at best, which they even failed that) with Bosh as the centerpiece. He’s just too soft to play the toughness game in the playoff. That’s a sign that you should not build a team around him.

BC missed the chances to unload Bosh for good returns for 2 years and now has to accept a big TE with 2 draft picks. The worst part is that the more valuable of the 2 draft picks is actually Raptors’ own draft pick which was shipped out in the JO-Marion trade. He got schooled by Riley really bad.

[ghettosermonParticipant]

To the Raptors credit though the other top players they were looking at were Adam Morrison and Tyrus Thomas, so it’s not like they could have done any better. They weren’t going to take Aldridge because he was too similar to Bosh, Bargnani at least showed he could be a swing forward and move him around. Brandon Roy in that draft was never even considered to go anywhere in the top 3. It was just a horrible draft to have a top pick. Roy and Foye were really the only sure fire picks and Foye has been a bust considering his draft slot. I mean damn some of the first round names are horrendous, Adam Morrison, Shelden Williams, Cedric Simmons, Patrick O’Bryant, Saer Sene, Hilton Armstrong, Shawne Williams, Oleskiy Pecherov. You know it’s a horrible draft class when a role player like JJ Redick with a 7 ppg career average is a top 10 player from the class.

[thparadoxParticipant]

We never had another star to pair with Bosh. We never had a good defensive team to play with bosh.

So Colangelo, you only experimented with Offense only role players. What did you expect?

The team around him was CRAP. Colangelo should shut up. He could have got Gerald Wallace for TJ Ford. Now THAT would have been trying something different.

On Bargnani: He was a good gamble with the no. 1 pick. He legitimately looked like the next Dirk (and by his second season, even Dirk said he was talented and looked better than Dirk did at the same age).

Who would you have picked? Brandon Roy? he had knee injury history. Rudy Gay? Bargnani was the best option. He definitely hasn’t panned out like we thought. But at the time it was a good decision.

I have to say, Colangelo has a damn good draft record.

[btown gmParticipant]

i live in toronto, i been watching almost every game for 7 years and never has bosh had a legit second scorer. your not going to win ball games with one guy puting up 20+ ppg and the others all puting up 10-14 ppg. recently barani avaeraged around 17 ppg but it was inconsistante. one night he looks like a tough macth up and the next hes a ghost. brian colangelo isnt a bad gm but he never brought talent around his star which he could build around for example the thunder provided durant with green, westbrook, harden, udoh none is a star but they have grown together. brian colangelo has changed the entire raptors for the 3 time in many years.

yes he has down a good job since bosh has left but maybe its time for someone else to get a chance prefeably his dad which is unlikly

[PureshooterParticipant]

In all fairness, Bargnani is pretty good, Calderon is okay, and there was no way to know that Turkoglu was going to have a down year after having such a great season with Orlando the previous season.

That said, yeah, he could definitely have done much more to build around Bosh. Derozan was a good step in the right direction, but he is still very raw.

[NashyMingParticipant]

The draft in 2006 was pretty bad and at the time Bargnani was one of the better choice.

I think it was the right move to draft Bargnani, at least, he won’t pull a Chris Bosh on the Raptors. There’s a reason to get Euro to play in Toronto.

What I thought BC should have done was to trade down and shut his freaking mouth about drafting Bargnani. When he went all crazy about Bargnani weeks before draft day, everyone knew what he’s up to, but no one knew what’s he smoking. He should have traded down a few spots and hopefully land another pick later in the draft.

I really liked Rondo that year and thought he could be like Jason Kidd (he had some triple-double games in KU). I thought Rondo was a lottery pick talent. If I were BC, I would have tried to land another pick to get him.

[deshawynkeys91Participant]

traded down for anything and it would have not been much but u could have gotten something…. and then drafted rudy gay… thats what i thought at the time and even with what b roy has become in the league i still think that would have been the smart gm move…. acquiring a 6’9 forward with the ability to grow into ur #1 guard opt / guard the other team best wings would have put the raptors in a great position for the yrs to come….

[ghettosermonParticipant]

^ It’s not that easy to trade down from the #1 pick. And at the time they did believe Bargnani could be the next coming of Dirk. I mean how many #1 picks have ever been traded. And it’s so easy to go back in retrospect and say they should have done this or that, but back then it wouldn’t have made sense. I mean c’mon I love Rudy Gay and he’s become a fringe allstar already but coming out of UCONN there were huge questions on him. At UCONN he was not aggressive at all, I’m actually presently surprised at how proactive his game has become. At Connecticut he would just float around and often times relegate to Charlie V, Denham Brown, Anderson, etc. It’s easy to say now Rudy would have been a better pick, but he wasn’t even a top 5 prospect coming out. How could you justify to Raptors fans who were excited about winning the lottery, that you were passing up on possibly the next Dirk in Bargnani, or the next Amare in Tyrus Thomas, for a SF who didn’t show the killer instinct in college. Colangelo has made several questionable moves during his tenure but I don’t consider the 06 draft to be one of those considering his options. I guarantee very few scouts or GM’s at the time of the draft believed Rudy Gay would develop into a #1 option. He had all the skills but almost every scout would tell you that he was fine at UCONN being an alternate option. Raps fans should just be glad you didn’t go with Tyrus or Morrison.

[NashyMingParticipant]

Well, in 2006, there was not a clear-cut number one player in the draft, so trading the #1 overall pick down a few spots for extra incentive actually made sense. It’s not a draft with Oden/Durant, a DRose, or a John Wall. It’s a draft that was viewed as the same from #1 to #6. Bargnani was not really a consensus #1 and not until BC made his intention so obvious that he got moved to the #1 spot in most mock drafts. Bargnani as the next Dirk was more hyped by BC himself. It was a little moronic to show his cards so early. When BC joined the Raptors, he was hyped up by the Raptors fans since he just came out of the Suns as executive of the year. I actually had high hope on him, but I expected less and less of him from his every moves. He didn’t hold his card tight and went after Bargnani like a bear after honey. When the #1 pick was announced, it was clear to me that BC was just another average GM and nothing special.

Most people would agree that even in 2006, Rudy Gay was clearly a very talent player. I read that he’s a hard working guy with decent work ethic and I was sold that he would become near all-star level. Rudy Gay wouldn’t be a #1 guy, but he’s certainly a good #2 or #3, a good Robin. Players with talent and a good work ethic usually plan out. He was indeed considered as one of the potential top 6 coming out. Ammo was so hyped back then, but he was a Wally World type of player to me, so I never thought he would develop into a serious player.

My top 6 back in 2006:
Bargnani – has the edge of being a 7-footer
Rudy Gay – best talent in the draft with decent work ethic
Foye – he was pretty good back in college
Thomas – so much talent with the wrong head
Aldridge – too similar to Bosh and can’t play C
Roy – his age and his knee really got him down a few spots

And if I had to pick Ammo, I would probably just trade down and let someone else take him on. He has Wally World written all over him and I don’t like Wally.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Bosh struggles with too many facets of his game to be a Franchise Player.

-CB4 has bad chemistry with True C’s (Jermaine Oneal was the trial) which is why BC stayed with Bargnani all this time. Bosh is a faceup oriented player dispite his post skills, when you give him space he will drill a mid-range jumper, when you play close up on him he will blow by you, therefore if you have a true C in the low post a help defender will clog up the paint and make it difficult for him to finish. Also the low post big will not be comfortable with touches and be out of rythm. Alot of people say Bosh helped Bargnani’s stats but it really was the other way around. Bargnani stretched out the defense, created more room for Bosh to drive and be free of the help defender waiting near the rim.

-Chris struggles carrying the offensive load while being the good weakside defender that he is, do to the fact that he was overutilized on the offensive end. Bosh also is too weak to box out C’s dispite his good motor and rebounding skills, he really takes a beating night in and night out for his 11 RPG due to his body type. Tougher PF’s go to town on Bosh and Franchise players can’t be weak. Chris gives up on defending bigger stronger players if they have that obvious advantage, as seen when allowing Shaq to score in the 40’s when Shaq was with Phoenix and practically the whole Orlando magic series a couple years ago Dwight Howard beasted him.

-Chris struggles finishing with his right hand. In pressure situations and with the clock ticking he can be forced to use his right hand which would cause him to be thrown off his game. With no open man that would cause CB4 to rush and make a frantic decision. It is tough for a PF to be the go to scorer late in games, although with Chris’s mobility and obvious advantage with quickness on just about any PF in the world he should be able to be a clutch performer. Especially if he wants to be a Franchise Player.

-Lets face it…Bosh is a wuss. He is not tough and always finds a way to get hurt in the most crucial moments.He lets KG baby him, Paul Pierce kick him in the nuts, Jamison break his face, Danny Granger literally push him around, and the team he leads to be the wussies of the league for his entire stay in Toronto.

Not Franchise material at all IMO.

[ghettosermonParticipant]

Still though my point is that when you land the #1 pick in the draft fans expect you to draft a franchise changing guy. The fans and media would tear the Raptors apart if they traded down from the top pick and grabbed a guy who was not viewed as a top 5 player. It’s just the logistics of having the #1 pick. Even if there are “smarter” moves you have to take a player who you think has potential to be a game changing player. During the draft Rudy was not that. He was a guy with a ton of talent who hadn’t put it all together, but I don’t think anyone thought of him a unique talent. Bargnani and Tyrus Thomas were thought of as those kind of talents. It’s just like in the NFL. If you have the #1 pick and there is an attractive Quarterback or Receiver you have to take them. Can you imagine the uproar if you had the #1 pick and passed on a “game changing player” and instead traded down and got multiple picks. Even if you ended up getting 3 solid players for that one pick, fans would never forgive you for passing on that top talent. Regardless of strength of the draft if you have the #1 pick that means you have the choice of who you think is the #1 player and has potential to be a star. You don’t trade out of that pick unless you are getting a current star player in return. The NBA draft is even more extreme than the NFL draft. Having multiple draft picks is not valued as high. In the NBA draft beyond the top 10 picks everything else is pretty much a crap shoot.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Rudy Gay and Andrea Bargnani have just about eqaul production at different positions. Bargnani re-signed for 10 Mil Per year for 5 years and Gay re-signed for a Max Contract. Gay wouldve walked from Toronto. Bargnani feels at home here. There wasnt much that couldve been done, plus Bargnani is Italian which appeals to an International crowd and the Italian people of Toronto. Not to mention the European people of Toronto.

Bargnani`s marketing value is still through the roof.

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

After Rudy Gay’s freshman year..Almost everyone had him pegged as a top 3 pick..But he went into a sophomore slump..He was too laid back,never took over games the way you’ve expected someone with his talents would do..Coach Calhoun often would pull him after letting his man beat him on defense..During the draft of 2006 most people felt he had the talent to become the best player out of that draft,…Jerry West said he had watched Gay his High School days..And saw some of the same skills that Kobe displayed in high school..West said Gay might be 1 of those players that be better pros then college players….Charlotte wanted to draft him at 3…But felt Adam Morrison was the safer pick….LMAO!!

TOronto did a poor of putting players around Bosh.
They gave Vince Carter away and failed to get another quality starter in return
added injury ridden Jermaine O’Neal
adding soft European players

And Colangelo is the fool..Bosh sent out many signals before the trade deadline that he wasnt going back…and Colangelo couldve traded him…and got something in return….

[ghettosermonParticipant]

Yup Colangelo’s failures have nothing to do with Bargnani. I would say though that I don’t believe a Bosh led team would ever win a championship. You’d need to get another player at least on his level to ever win a championship.

OT a little but from what I understand funny as it sounds if I remember correctly MJ wanted to take Rudy at 3 but the rest of management shut him up and said that Morrison was the right pick. So MJ’s only good front office move never happened, lol.

[thparadoxParticipant]

Ohcanada.. don’t give us that bullshit. Bosh played hard and has become very aggressive.

Physically he’s not an intimidating player because he just doesn’t have the frame.

But mentally he is tough, and he has the heart of a champion.

1) Saying he has bad chemistry with true centers based on a completely washed up Jermaine O’neal is RIDUCLOUS. He hasn’t played with a true center. Plus, he’s the #1 scoring option on the team. If you want to say he isn’t as good a passer as he could be, I agree with you.

2) You can’t expect someone with Bosh’s frame to be beating up on guys like Howard and Shaq. Bargnani was actually guarding Shaq and Howard during the regular season. And Bosh shoved Howard hard this year during a regular season game and screamed at him. He looked relatively soft in the Magic playoffs series. But this year he showed that he wasn’t intimidated by Howard and wanted to dominate him. Also, Howard is a bully, and it’s not easy to compete with him in the block unless you can elbow his face in.

3) Bosh finished just fine with his right hand. He’s extremely efficient on offense and is one of the best scorers in the game.

I think Bosh could stand to work on his passing, and his defensive/rebounding intensity. That would take him from a top 10 player to top 5.

[R-Dot-13Participant]

I have watched the raptors all my life as well and agree with everything OhCanada said.

Bosh is NOT efficient. Its easy to score 20 + ppg when you have the ball the entire time and take all of the shots.
Yes, we didnt give Bosh any help, but the thing is, he’s the type of guy who should be helping someone else. He isn’t franchise player material, and neither as anyone on the Toronto Raptors right now.
Bosh is a very good 2nd option on a team, and an even better 3rd, which he is in Miami, but never with the Toronto Raptors organization has he shown that he deserves to be a #1 option on a good team as he was never able to consistently perform in the big games, and could not get the raptors out of the first round.

[thparadoxParticipant]

The more shots you take and possessions you use, the harder it is to be efficient. And Bosh is extremely efficient:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2010&year_max=2010&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&lg_id=&franch_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=off_rtg&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=ts_pct&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=ows

[R-Dot-13Participant]

Exactly, bosh took most of the shots on the team and had the ball mostly the entire time.

Judging by how often he had the ball, if he was as efficient as you say he is, the raptors would have been a more successful team. And this is coming from a Raptors fan. Im from around Toronto and watch the Raptors every game.

Yes, he shot a pretty good % but he took a lot of forced, and bad shots as well, settling for his jumper far too often. These shots lead to bad possessions, and turnovers and missed oppurtunities. What im saying is, he is not and connot be a franchise player on a good team.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Bosh is effiecient stat wise but not stamina wise…

Paradox youre agreeing with me on basically everything except your being nice about it. I say Bosh is too weak to gaurd bif players, and you say it is because of his frame. WELL DUH. That still doesn’t change the fact that he is weak.

As for his right hand..
Here is Bosh finishing with his right. He misses the game winner at1:19 with his right hand, and goes left off of his right foot when he should have gone right at 1:45.

[OhCanada-Participant]

He is definitely a Top-15 player this league but definitely not a Franchise Player.

[thparadoxParticipant]

No, we’re actually saying quite different things.

You’re saying that he is soft because of his frame. You’re calling him a wuss.

I’m saying he’s aggressive and dominant IN SPITE of his frame. Big difference.

I think it’s silly to say Bosh isn’t a franchise player. It depends how you define franchise player. Bosh is similar to Garnett. He needs to be with at least a star guard… like Pierce/Allen for Garnett.

You can build around Bosh, you just need to do it the right way… Colangelo did it COMPLETELY the wrong way.

Bosh’s ideal pairing is with a scoring guard and a big center who is physical and can do garbage work while Bosh does the finesse scoring.

If the raptors had been smart enough to pick Danny Granger (idiots), can’t you see Granger and Bosh being the building blocks of a .600+ team?

Obviously there are better options out there to build a team around (Lebron, Wade, Durant, CP3, Deron). But don’t say that Bosh is a wuss because of that.

[thparadoxParticipant]

Also, you’re nitpicking with that phillie game. At the 1:19 mark, Bosh made a great move and should have finished with left hand.

In any case, it’s only 1 play… and I challenge you to find more than about 5 big men who can consistently get that kind of look at the end of a game.

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