[contestwinnerParticipant]

Chris Bosh is being paid around 19 million a year with a player option for next year. He is clearly not worth the money he is receiving. He is essentially a spot up shooting center. Yes, I know he is playing out of position, but a finesse big man is not what the Heat need…

Larry Sanders would be much more serviceable to the Heat. The Heat seem to have a knack for turning around troubled players. This isn’t remotely realistic, but imagine Sanders on the Heat…they would clearly be the favorites to the win title. Give Beasley a greater offensive role and they would have a much brighter future.

What do you think the Heat should do with Chris Bosh?

A trade isn’t realistic in my opinion because of the emotional attachment the Heat have with Bosh…

A young big man would be a great fit with the Heat, but good ones are hard to find these days.

Also, any ideas on how the Heat could acquire a player like Larry Sanders?

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Back to back titles says otherwise.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Did you see how Bosh played in the finals????? please give a better explanation to defend Bosh.

I’m just saying that it is going to get much harder to win titles without a traditional big man in the starting rotation.

I’m not knocking Bosh, I just think the fit with the Heat isn’t great…

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Did you see how Bosh played in the finals????? please give a better explanation to defend Bosh.

I’m just saying that it is going to get much harder to win titles without a traditional big man in the starting rotation.

I’m not knocking Bosh, I just think the fit with the Heat isn’t great…

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Back to back titles says otherwise.

[LindseyParticipant]

 A spot up shooter at the 5 spot is exactly what they need with Lebron and Dwyane. I remember everyone saying amare should have been the big instead of bosh, but that would have cut down on driving lanes, and post ups for thos two considerably. Bosh allows them to do what they do best, while consistently giving them a mismatch with other teams centers by drawing them out. 

Bosh could be a 20-10 dude once again if he HAD to. Probably deserves more credit for his sacrafices for this team. 

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Yes but can you address the salary concern I brought up…..read my whole post and respond to it

Bosh deserves credit for helping the Heat win the title….BUT he isn’t getting any younger and is a liability defensively in the playoffs.

[LindseyParticipant]

 They knew that going into the original signing. I’d say worry about that when the first contract runs out, then maybe look at some younger similarily skilled players, but at least make good on the initial commitment which has been widely successful thus far.

[LindseyParticipant]

 They knew that going into the original signing. I’d say worry about that when the first contract runs out, then maybe look at some younger similarily skilled players, but at least make good on the initial commitment which has been widely successful thus far.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Yes but can you address the salary concern I brought up…..read my whole post and respond to it

Bosh deserves credit for helping the Heat win the title….BUT he isn’t getting any younger and is a liability defensively in the playoffs.

[LindseyParticipant]

 A spot up shooter at the 5 spot is exactly what they need with Lebron and Dwyane. I remember everyone saying amare should have been the big instead of bosh, but that would have cut down on driving lanes, and post ups for thos two considerably. Bosh allows them to do what they do best, while consistently giving them a mismatch with other teams centers by drawing them out. 

Bosh could be a 20-10 dude once again if he HAD to. Probably deserves more credit for his sacrafices for this team. 

[Sewok15Participant]

We know Bosh is only an average interior defender and rebounder but the floor spacing he provides is very valuable. The Heat play some of the best perimeter defense in the league as well so a shot blocking center is nice to have coming off the bench but not really neccessary to play 30+ minutes a night…especially if they are an offensive liability.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

But is he worth the money?…read my post!

[contestwinnerParticipant]

But is he worth the money?…read my post!

[HandDownManDown13Participant]

 He’s not the best rim protector but he’s the best pick and roll defender in the entire league. He’s also one of the most mobile bigs in the game, and a very good team defender. 

So don’t underestimate the guy. He’s definitely the best type of player fora 3rd option on this team. 

 

 

[HandDownManDown13Participant]

 He’s not the best rim protector but he’s the best pick and roll defender in the entire league. He’s also one of the most mobile bigs in the game, and a very good team defender. 

So don’t underestimate the guy. He’s definitely the best type of player fora 3rd option on this team. 

 

 

[Sewok15Participant]

We know Bosh is only an average interior defender and rebounder but the floor spacing he provides is very valuable. The Heat play some of the best perimeter defense in the league as well so a shot blocking center is nice to have coming off the bench but not really neccessary to play 30+ minutes a night…especially if they are an offensive liability.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Stop arguing about why Chris Bosh is good, that’s not the question…

I’m not saying Chris Bosh is a bad player, but he’s not worth 19-20 million. Larry Sanders makes around 11 million a year, then along with that you could add another decent player. Think about the future…

[Hacker90Participant]

 I would assume the Heat are more concerned about winning now then they are about the future.  I would much rather pay Bosh 19-20 mil, then pay Sanders his new contract. Also, you don’t have to worry about Bosh if he’s going to do something stupid off the court, besides some weird faces in interviews lol

[Hacker90Participant]

 I would assume the Heat are more concerned about winning now then they are about the future.  I would much rather pay Bosh 19-20 mil, then pay Sanders his new contract. Also, you don’t have to worry about Bosh if he’s going to do something stupid off the court, besides some weird faces in interviews lol

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Stop arguing about why Chris Bosh is good, that’s not the question…

I’m not saying Chris Bosh is a bad player, but he’s not worth 19-20 million. Larry Sanders makes around 11 million a year, then along with that you could add another decent player. Think about the future…

[Jayhawks2011Participant]

 the question is does Sanders deserve his new deal… He has been a complete disastor from that trade.  He’s gettiing in bar fights, yelled at by his teammates, and not being injured.  Bosh is worth the money.  He got voted an all star being the third option on his team.  Remmeber him in toronto he is a legit 20-10 guy.

 

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Did you see how the Heat turned around Beasley??? Imagine what they could do with Sanders.

And to your Toronto point, did they ever have a winning record or a remotely competitive team…stats aren’t the best argument. It’s the classic case of a good player on a terrible team

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Did you see how the Heat turned around Beasley??? Imagine what they could do with Sanders.

And to your Toronto point, did they ever have a winning record or a remotely competitive team…stats aren’t the best argument. It’s the classic case of a good player on a terrible team

[Jayhawks2011Participant]

 the question is does Sanders deserve his new deal… He has been a complete disastor from that trade.  He’s gettiing in bar fights, yelled at by his teammates, and not being injured.  Bosh is worth the money.  He got voted an all star being the third option on his team.  Remmeber him in toronto he is a legit 20-10 guy.

 

[MUbballfanParticipant]

 As a Bucks fan, you DO NOT want Larry Sanders. Just looking at his stats on ESPN, Chris Bosh is averaging 23 PPG on 63% shooting in his last five, including today’s blowout of the Spurs. Sanders is averaging 25 MPG, but only 6.4 PPG on 42% shooting for the season, embarrassing for a big man. Also, Bosh isn’t the one getting into bar fights off the court.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Yes, but I’m talking about going up against the Roy Hibberts and Serge Ibakas… you know, the ones you have to get past to win a title. He is not all that effective against many big men.

His rebounding numbers are atrocious…

I’m thinking of the playoffs…where things get more physical…Chris Bosh isn’t a very physical guy.

[MUbballfanParticipant]

 Larry Sanders is a pretty physical guy, as far as bar fights go.

[MUbballfanParticipant]

 Larry Sanders is a pretty physical guy, as far as bar fights go.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Yeah, Larry Sanders is going to demolish Hibbert in the playoffs… lol  

Just like he kept him from dropping 24-10 on the Bucks earlier this season.

Larry Sanders is overpaid, the only reason the Bucks can’t move him is because of his ridiculous contract, lack of skill, and off-court issues.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Ok do you agree with me that the Heat turned around Beasley’s career? When you say yes to that, why couldn’t the Heat do it with Sanders.

You basically described Michael Beasley before he was on the Heat when talking about Sanders…

And it doesn’t have to be Sanders…just a suggestion, my point is that the Heat would be better off with a rim protector, or a traditional big man. Deandre Jordan, Greg Monroe, Marc Gasol could all be options…not sure about their contract status though.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

I don’t see how Greg Monroe is a better or bigger player than Chris Bosh or would do anything defensively to slow down Hibbert.

There’s a reason the Heat play Shane Battier at PF, because he spreads the floor.  The same reason they play Bosh at center.  Adding DeAndre Jordan would take away their 3rd scorer and would crowd the paint.  When Bosh and Battier are playing, the big-men have to respect their jumpshot, which is why they have to clear the paint while making it easier for James and Wade to have their personal dunk contests.

If DeAndre Jordan was on the Heat, he would stand in the paint, along with his defender.

I realize that you’re trying to tell me that the Heat have a better chance with a different player but there are so many factors that go into that.  The Heat need a 5 that can stretch the floor and when we go down the list, Chris Bosh is as good as it gets.  

Who else could play the 5 and stretch the floor as well as Bosh?

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Deandre Jordan has been a beast this year as far as rebounds and blocks go. In his last 30 he’s averaging close to 15 boards and around 3 blocks. I actually like that fit, and he is young and is also extremely athletic for a 7 footer ( and he’s HUGE).

Greg Monroe is around the same height as Bosh, but bigger and younger. He can hit a mid range jumper too, I think.

And who says the Heat have to have a stretch 5. Most teams that win titles don’t have stretch 5s….

Also, I’m thinking about the Heat getting younger and also unloading Bosh’s big contract. Money and youth is an issue too, the Heat won’t be able to win with this core for very long with all the young talent in the league.

Just different philosophies here….so arguing any more won’t do much.

[LindseyParticipant]

 Agreed with most of your points as I think Monroe is a great player and will be a contributer to a winner very soon. 

But, yes Most teams win titles with a trditional 5. But none have had Lebron who is the most untraditional player in history. To have him and DWade be the 1 and 2 options you need a third, specifically a big who doesnt facilitate doubling them close to the rim just because hes hanging round the paint too, or the defender can leak off him cause of a lack of Jumper. Bron and Wade and slashing playmakers, and both are very adept at scoring in the post. Bosh keeps the pressure off by being able to hit that 15-20 footer at a high rate. Defensively might be an issue, but they have a good number off bigs off the bench to work someone like hibbert or howard enough for Lebron to carry. 

not a heat fan, but loving the untraditional positional approach they are taking, and they’ve really built a team around their big three that not many others (knicks, nets, lakers last year) could do.

[LindseyParticipant]

 Agreed with most of your points as I think Monroe is a great player and will be a contributer to a winner very soon. 

But, yes Most teams win titles with a trditional 5. But none have had Lebron who is the most untraditional player in history. To have him and DWade be the 1 and 2 options you need a third, specifically a big who doesnt facilitate doubling them close to the rim just because hes hanging round the paint too, or the defender can leak off him cause of a lack of Jumper. Bron and Wade and slashing playmakers, and both are very adept at scoring in the post. Bosh keeps the pressure off by being able to hit that 15-20 footer at a high rate. Defensively might be an issue, but they have a good number off bigs off the bench to work someone like hibbert or howard enough for Lebron to carry. 

not a heat fan, but loving the untraditional positional approach they are taking, and they’ve really built a team around their big three that not many others (knicks, nets, lakers last year) could do.

[Sotos14Participant]

From a die hard detroit fan, Monroe cannot hit a jumper to save his life nor play physical defense or block shots. He is also very slow. Yes, he is a fine player, but he would not offer MIA anything Bosh can’t already do. Also another point. Bosh did take the team to a 3 seed one year and had 24pts 11 rebs his last year there. Just stop. Bosh is a perfect big man compliment with his mid range game and pass ability on post to slashers and spot up 3 pt shpooter on team. 

[Sotos14Participant]

From a die hard detroit fan, Monroe cannot hit a jumper to save his life nor play physical defense or block shots. He is also very slow. Yes, he is a fine player, but he would not offer MIA anything Bosh can’t already do. Also another point. Bosh did take the team to a 3 seed one year and had 24pts 11 rebs his last year there. Just stop. Bosh is a perfect big man compliment with his mid range game and pass ability on post to slashers and spot up 3 pt shpooter on team. 

[the I in winParticipant]

Remember the plays where Hibbert and Duncan were in front of the rim and Lebron struggled to finish?  They would be in front of the rim every time like Tyson Chander was for the Mavs when the Heat started Haslem (not a floor spacer) and the Heat, particularly Dwayne Wade, would struggle to get into the lane and draw the defense so they would also be no open threes.

Like someone has already said the heat don’t care about preparing for the future over winning know and outside of Ray Allen and the ever decreasingly used Shane Battier who exactly is old and important on the Heat?  Wade is getting up their but his problem is durability not age.

[the I in winParticipant]

Remember the plays where Hibbert and Duncan were in front of the rim and Lebron struggled to finish?  They would be in front of the rim every time like Tyson Chander was for the Mavs when the Heat started Haslem (not a floor spacer) and the Heat, particularly Dwayne Wade, would struggle to get into the lane and draw the defense so they would also be no open threes.

Like someone has already said the heat don’t care about preparing for the future over winning know and outside of Ray Allen and the ever decreasingly used Shane Battier who exactly is old and important on the Heat?  Wade is getting up their but his problem is durability not age.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Deandre Jordan has been a beast this year as far as rebounds and blocks go. In his last 30 he’s averaging close to 15 boards and around 3 blocks. I actually like that fit, and he is young and is also extremely athletic for a 7 footer ( and he’s HUGE).

Greg Monroe is around the same height as Bosh, but bigger and younger. He can hit a mid range jumper too, I think.

And who says the Heat have to have a stretch 5. Most teams that win titles don’t have stretch 5s….

Also, I’m thinking about the Heat getting younger and also unloading Bosh’s big contract. Money and youth is an issue too, the Heat won’t be able to win with this core for very long with all the young talent in the league.

Just different philosophies here….so arguing any more won’t do much.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

I don’t see how Greg Monroe is a better or bigger player than Chris Bosh or would do anything defensively to slow down Hibbert.

There’s a reason the Heat play Shane Battier at PF, because he spreads the floor.  The same reason they play Bosh at center.  Adding DeAndre Jordan would take away their 3rd scorer and would crowd the paint.  When Bosh and Battier are playing, the big-men have to respect their jumpshot, which is why they have to clear the paint while making it easier for James and Wade to have their personal dunk contests.

If DeAndre Jordan was on the Heat, he would stand in the paint, along with his defender.

I realize that you’re trying to tell me that the Heat have a better chance with a different player but there are so many factors that go into that.  The Heat need a 5 that can stretch the floor and when we go down the list, Chris Bosh is as good as it gets.  

Who else could play the 5 and stretch the floor as well as Bosh?

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Ok do you agree with me that the Heat turned around Beasley’s career? When you say yes to that, why couldn’t the Heat do it with Sanders.

You basically described Michael Beasley before he was on the Heat when talking about Sanders…

And it doesn’t have to be Sanders…just a suggestion, my point is that the Heat would be better off with a rim protector, or a traditional big man. Deandre Jordan, Greg Monroe, Marc Gasol could all be options…not sure about their contract status though.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Yeah, Larry Sanders is going to demolish Hibbert in the playoffs… lol  

Just like he kept him from dropping 24-10 on the Bucks earlier this season.

Larry Sanders is overpaid, the only reason the Bucks can’t move him is because of his ridiculous contract, lack of skill, and off-court issues.

[the I in winParticipant]

the Heat have a traditional big in birdman and 2 if you count the recent emergence of oden into the rotation.  Bosh doesn’t need to be physical, he needs to spread the court.  Is he worth 19 million? Yes, no stats don’t suggest it but he is a high level help defender, on ball defender, pick and roll defender, and holds his own in the low post all while spreading the court at an elite level, dribbling and passing very well for a big, and maintains his accuracy even though he has plenty of games where he only gets 7 field goal attempts.

To make a pairing of bigs with Sanders that is equal to overall impact to Bosh and Birdman you would need a great floor spacer and those cost around 8-12 million a year (Ryan Anderson type guy) and if you combine Sanders 11 and 10 from the other big (happy middle) you are at 21 million compared to the 19 million of bosh and 1.5 million(ish) of Birdman.  If the heat were able to get both Ryan Anderson and Sanders (which would be difficult) the combination could be better than Bosh and Birdman but at the same time Bosh and Birdman have 2 rings.

[the I in winParticipant]

the Heat have a traditional big in birdman and 2 if you count the recent emergence of oden into the rotation.  Bosh doesn’t need to be physical, he needs to spread the court.  Is he worth 19 million? Yes, no stats don’t suggest it but he is a high level help defender, on ball defender, pick and roll defender, and holds his own in the low post all while spreading the court at an elite level, dribbling and passing very well for a big, and maintains his accuracy even though he has plenty of games where he only gets 7 field goal attempts.

To make a pairing of bigs with Sanders that is equal to overall impact to Bosh and Birdman you would need a great floor spacer and those cost around 8-12 million a year (Ryan Anderson type guy) and if you combine Sanders 11 and 10 from the other big (happy middle) you are at 21 million compared to the 19 million of bosh and 1.5 million(ish) of Birdman.  If the heat were able to get both Ryan Anderson and Sanders (which would be difficult) the combination could be better than Bosh and Birdman but at the same time Bosh and Birdman have 2 rings.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Yes, but I’m talking about going up against the Roy Hibberts and Serge Ibakas… you know, the ones you have to get past to win a title. He is not all that effective against many big men.

His rebounding numbers are atrocious…

I’m thinking of the playoffs…where things get more physical…Chris Bosh isn’t a very physical guy.

[MUbballfanParticipant]

 As a Bucks fan, you DO NOT want Larry Sanders. Just looking at his stats on ESPN, Chris Bosh is averaging 23 PPG on 63% shooting in his last five, including today’s blowout of the Spurs. Sanders is averaging 25 MPG, but only 6.4 PPG on 42% shooting for the season, embarrassing for a big man. Also, Bosh isn’t the one getting into bar fights off the court.

[cozmojimParticipant]

 I think he’s worth the money. There are about 29 other teams that would be happy to pay him 19 mil for 2 years in his prime. I agree that the fit doesn’t seem natural and it never realy has to me, but it’s hard to argue with the results and I think chemistry is an underrated part of their success. Also you said they’d be the clear favorite to win the title with Sanders…and they aren’t with Bosh?

[contestwinnerParticipant]

From what I’ve been hearing, the Pacers are the favorite to win the title (Analysts). I still pick the Heat to win because I wouldn’t bet against Lebron and Wade.

But… Imagine the Heat with a rim protector who plays big minutes. Lebron wouldn’t have to be the rim protector of the team, and maybe his scoring average goes up due to less exhaustion on the defensive end.

Yes, I know this is an outlandish idea and won’t happen this season…but what if Bosh underperforms in the playoffs again and the Heat fail to win a title? Then, my idea won’t sound so stupid.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

From what I’ve been hearing, the Pacers are the favorite to win the title (Analysts). I still pick the Heat to win because I wouldn’t bet against Lebron and Wade.

But… Imagine the Heat with a rim protector who plays big minutes. Lebron wouldn’t have to be the rim protector of the team, and maybe his scoring average goes up due to less exhaustion on the defensive end.

Yes, I know this is an outlandish idea and won’t happen this season…but what if Bosh underperforms in the playoffs again and the Heat fail to win a title? Then, my idea won’t sound so stupid.

[cozmojimParticipant]

 I think he’s worth the money. There are about 29 other teams that would be happy to pay him 19 mil for 2 years in his prime. I agree that the fit doesn’t seem natural and it never realy has to me, but it’s hard to argue with the results and I think chemistry is an underrated part of their success. Also you said they’d be the clear favorite to win the title with Sanders…and they aren’t with Bosh?

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

There is only one player averaging 16PPG, 6.5RPG, while shooting over 50% from the field in only 31 minutes a game in the L right now.  That’s Chris Bosh.

Per-36 minutes, he’s averaging 19 PPG and 7.7 RPG as the 3rd option offensively and playing out of position.

He averages 23 PPG when Dwyane Wade is out.

The point is, you’d have to be crazy to think that Bosh wouldn’t be averaging at least 23-9 if he was on his own team, the first option, and playing his usual position while playing his usual 38-39 MPG.

He has made so many sacrifices that leads to people questioning whether he’s good or not.  He plays out of position, he plays as the 3rd option, and he is playing fewer minutes than he ever has in his entire NBA career, including his rookie season.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

But you have to admit his rebounding numbers aren’t very good. I’m not saying Chris Bosh is a bad player, but I think a rim protector is a better fit for the Heat.

He could average 23 and 9 on his own team…but so could a lot of players if they had their own team. — but would Bosh as the focal point translate to winning basketball? I don’t think so.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

When Bosh was in Toronto, they either made the playoffs or were on the cusp of making the playoffs.  He never had good teammates either.  I mean, at one point, the starting line-up was Anthony Parker, Nesterovic, Garbajosa, and TJ Ford… and that was during a 47 win season!

It’s no coincidence that after Bosh left the Raptors, they had an even worse winning % than when he was there.

His rebounding could be better, but as I said, he is playing out of position as well as only 31 minutes a game.  It is much easier to snag rebounds when he’s playing against 6’8-6’10 PF than it is against 6’10-7’2 C in this league, which is truly a testament to his low rebounding number.

As I stated earlier, he could average 23-9 on his own team and they could make the playoffs, of course, if they had good players around him, unlike in Toronto.

If you put Hibbert, Cousins, or Anthony Davis on a team where your starters are Parker, Nesterovic, Garbajosa, and Ford; do you think they’ll win 47 games?

Bosh is worth his contract because his skills are so unique and not many big-men in the L can do what he does, even though he does it at a diminished role. 

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Put Hibbert, Cousins, or Davis with Lebron and the Heat and take out Bosh and I like their chances at a title a lot better.

But those 3 have no chance of being moved. I’m talking about titles here, and not how they would do on a bad team.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

If you put Hibbert, Cousins, or Davis in exchange for most PFs or Cs in the L, they would improve.

Do you think the Kings, Pelicans, or Pacers would trade their respective player for Bosh?  No.  

Of course, there are much better combinations in the NBA.  Why can’t the Heat trade Wade for Harden?  Why can’t they trade Bosh for Hibbert and Battier/Allen for Millsap.

Building the perfect team is easy in one’s head but it’s nearly impossible in real life.  

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Of course, I knew all those were unrealistic, which is why I never mentioned them, you did.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Of course, I knew all those were unrealistic, which is why I never mentioned them, you did.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

If you put Hibbert, Cousins, or Davis in exchange for most PFs or Cs in the L, they would improve.

Do you think the Kings, Pelicans, or Pacers would trade their respective player for Bosh?  No.  

Of course, there are much better combinations in the NBA.  Why can’t the Heat trade Wade for Harden?  Why can’t they trade Bosh for Hibbert and Battier/Allen for Millsap.

Building the perfect team is easy in one’s head but it’s nearly impossible in real life.  

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Put Hibbert, Cousins, or Davis with Lebron and the Heat and take out Bosh and I like their chances at a title a lot better.

But those 3 have no chance of being moved. I’m talking about titles here, and not how they would do on a bad team.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

When Bosh was in Toronto, they either made the playoffs or were on the cusp of making the playoffs.  He never had good teammates either.  I mean, at one point, the starting line-up was Anthony Parker, Nesterovic, Garbajosa, and TJ Ford… and that was during a 47 win season!

It’s no coincidence that after Bosh left the Raptors, they had an even worse winning % than when he was there.

His rebounding could be better, but as I said, he is playing out of position as well as only 31 minutes a game.  It is much easier to snag rebounds when he’s playing against 6’8-6’10 PF than it is against 6’10-7’2 C in this league, which is truly a testament to his low rebounding number.

As I stated earlier, he could average 23-9 on his own team and they could make the playoffs, of course, if they had good players around him, unlike in Toronto.

If you put Hibbert, Cousins, or Anthony Davis on a team where your starters are Parker, Nesterovic, Garbajosa, and Ford; do you think they’ll win 47 games?

Bosh is worth his contract because his skills are so unique and not many big-men in the L can do what he does, even though he does it at a diminished role. 

[contestwinnerParticipant]

But you have to admit his rebounding numbers aren’t very good. I’m not saying Chris Bosh is a bad player, but I think a rim protector is a better fit for the Heat.

He could average 23 and 9 on his own team…but so could a lot of players if they had their own team. — but would Bosh as the focal point translate to winning basketball? I don’t think so.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

There is only one player averaging 16PPG, 6.5RPG, while shooting over 50% from the field in only 31 minutes a game in the L right now.  That’s Chris Bosh.

Per-36 minutes, he’s averaging 19 PPG and 7.7 RPG as the 3rd option offensively and playing out of position.

He averages 23 PPG when Dwyane Wade is out.

The point is, you’d have to be crazy to think that Bosh wouldn’t be averaging at least 23-9 if he was on his own team, the first option, and playing his usual position while playing his usual 38-39 MPG.

He has made so many sacrifices that leads to people questioning whether he’s good or not.  He plays out of position, he plays as the 3rd option, and he is playing fewer minutes than he ever has in his entire NBA career, including his rookie season.

[dmo21Participant]

 Also, if Bosh is struggling and getting out muscled by guys they can go big and put in more muscle with guys like Birdman, Haslem, or now Oden to take care of the center moving Bosh back to his traditional position. This usually limits the driving lanes for Wade and James, but they do have the option to do this with quality guys which makes a more traditional lineup for when they play teams like the Pacers are Clippers.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Oden plays around 5 minutes a game now, lets not go that far…

But back to my point: If Bosh is not effective against quality big men, then isn’t he grossly overpaid?

Use that money to get a traditional big man when Lebron has never had the luxury of having one. But maybe you think a 30 year old stretch 5 is better. I’m thinking long term now, but quality big men are hard to find.

None of this is really realistic just thoughts…quality big men are hard to find.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Lets see who is exactly killing him. He kind of ripped up Timmy today. Know that is just one game, nonetheless, Duncan not getting younger. Up until the last few games of the Finals, where Timmy went beast mode and became the Spurs primary offensive option, Bosh was doing alright. Still, here are Bosh against some of the better bigs in the league. Don’t see him getting killed all of the time.

Bosh vs. Duncan: http://bkref.com/tiny/lDbpx

Bosh vs. LaMarcus Aldridge: http://bkref.com/tiny/lBvWj (They have a great little rivalry, though look at that match-up from December 28, 2013. Less than a month ago, with neither Wade nor Bron playing, Bosh showed just how much he struggles against quality big men)

Bosh vs Pau Gasol: http://bkref.com/tiny/9tIdR (Has done damn well against him this year)

Bosh vs. Blake Griffin: http://bkref.com/tiny/9YdmR (Blake has done well against the Heat. Still do not see him killing Bosh in a play-off series)

Bosh vs. Joakim Noah: http://bkref.com/tiny/1wD7n (This is one of my favorites. Look at the 2011 Play-off series against the Bulls. Bosh destroyed them. He got taken by Dirk, but look what Dirk was doing to Pau. Plus, Bosh still at least had a decent 2011 Finals)

Bosh vs. Roy Hibbert: http://bkref.com/tiny/Y5Oip (Yeah, that 2013 Play-off series was a big win Hibbert. Still, why in the hell is Chris Bosh guarding him? Plus, what center would you replace him with who has a chance to do much better? When you look at this year, Bosh got the better of him in the 2nd game)

Bosh vs. Kevin Garnett: http://bkref.com/tiny/qJoiC (KG was better. Look at Game 7 in 2012. When Bosh came back in Game 5, early mind you. He was huge in the Heat coming back in that series)

Bosh vs. Kevin Love: http://bkref.com/tiny/Fip16 (7-0. Big time Bosh lean here)

Bosh vs. Marc Gasol: http://bkref.com/tiny/TlL2L (Gasol probably does more now, just no real struggle)

Bosh vs. Dwight Howard: http://bkref.com/tiny/XfoCC (Seems like he does what he has to do. Not completely thrown aside)

Bosh vs. Serge Ibaka: http://bkref.com/tiny/3Eo6s (The Thunder have shown incredibly limited ability to keep Chris Bosh from being effective. Serge may not be elite, but this is one of the possible Finals teams and Bosh has had his way with Serge. Haven’t matched up this season, just doubt much has changed.)

Bottom line is, it seems Chris Bosh is pretty effective against quality big men. The Heat gave up some big games to Paul Millsap and David Lee in their time, just do not think Bosh is doing much less than making life tough for a majority teams on most nights. If you can see two guys who can replace the production, match-up issue and spacing that Bosh provides, than do it. Just think that his not being effective against marquee big men is not that much of a concern. He had a terrible Pacers series, though with a plan to try and get other people to guard Roy Hibbert, am thinking that might not be as much of an issue. Plus, I definitely don’t think Hibbert and West are smiling about having to guard Chris Bosh.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Lets see who is exactly killing him. He kind of ripped up Timmy today. Know that is just one game, nonetheless, Duncan not getting younger. Up until the last few games of the Finals, where Timmy went beast mode and became the Spurs primary offensive option, Bosh was doing alright. Still, here are Bosh against some of the better bigs in the league. Don’t see him getting killed all of the time.

Bosh vs. Duncan: http://bkref.com/tiny/lDbpx

Bosh vs. LaMarcus Aldridge: http://bkref.com/tiny/lBvWj (They have a great little rivalry, though look at that match-up from December 28, 2013. Less than a month ago, with neither Wade nor Bron playing, Bosh showed just how much he struggles against quality big men)

Bosh vs Pau Gasol: http://bkref.com/tiny/9tIdR (Has done damn well against him this year)

Bosh vs. Blake Griffin: http://bkref.com/tiny/9YdmR (Blake has done well against the Heat. Still do not see him killing Bosh in a play-off series)

Bosh vs. Joakim Noah: http://bkref.com/tiny/1wD7n (This is one of my favorites. Look at the 2011 Play-off series against the Bulls. Bosh destroyed them. He got taken by Dirk, but look what Dirk was doing to Pau. Plus, Bosh still at least had a decent 2011 Finals)

Bosh vs. Roy Hibbert: http://bkref.com/tiny/Y5Oip (Yeah, that 2013 Play-off series was a big win Hibbert. Still, why in the hell is Chris Bosh guarding him? Plus, what center would you replace him with who has a chance to do much better? When you look at this year, Bosh got the better of him in the 2nd game)

Bosh vs. Kevin Garnett: http://bkref.com/tiny/qJoiC (KG was better. Look at Game 7 in 2012. When Bosh came back in Game 5, early mind you. He was huge in the Heat coming back in that series)

Bosh vs. Kevin Love: http://bkref.com/tiny/Fip16 (7-0. Big time Bosh lean here)

Bosh vs. Marc Gasol: http://bkref.com/tiny/TlL2L (Gasol probably does more now, just no real struggle)

Bosh vs. Dwight Howard: http://bkref.com/tiny/XfoCC (Seems like he does what he has to do. Not completely thrown aside)

Bosh vs. Serge Ibaka: http://bkref.com/tiny/3Eo6s (The Thunder have shown incredibly limited ability to keep Chris Bosh from being effective. Serge may not be elite, but this is one of the possible Finals teams and Bosh has had his way with Serge. Haven’t matched up this season, just doubt much has changed.)

Bottom line is, it seems Chris Bosh is pretty effective against quality big men. The Heat gave up some big games to Paul Millsap and David Lee in their time, just do not think Bosh is doing much less than making life tough for a majority teams on most nights. If you can see two guys who can replace the production, match-up issue and spacing that Bosh provides, than do it. Just think that his not being effective against marquee big men is not that much of a concern. He had a terrible Pacers series, though with a plan to try and get other people to guard Roy Hibbert, am thinking that might not be as much of an issue. Plus, I definitely don’t think Hibbert and West are smiling about having to guard Chris Bosh.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Oden plays around 5 minutes a game now, lets not go that far…

But back to my point: If Bosh is not effective against quality big men, then isn’t he grossly overpaid?

Use that money to get a traditional big man when Lebron has never had the luxury of having one. But maybe you think a 30 year old stretch 5 is better. I’m thinking long term now, but quality big men are hard to find.

None of this is really realistic just thoughts…quality big men are hard to find.

[dmo21Participant]

 Also, if Bosh is struggling and getting out muscled by guys they can go big and put in more muscle with guys like Birdman, Haslem, or now Oden to take care of the center moving Bosh back to his traditional position. This usually limits the driving lanes for Wade and James, but they do have the option to do this with quality guys which makes a more traditional lineup for when they play teams like the Pacers are Clippers.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Think that the way you said it just led to the posts you are mostly seeing. First of all, no, Chris Bosh is not holding the Heat back. Hasn’t been, as much as he is the easiest person to pick on as far as the "Big 3" is concerned. I absolutely saw Chris Bosh play in the finals and beyond his Game 7 O-fer, he was pretty damn crucial. Do you remember that this guy got the offensive rebound that led to Ray Allen’s Game 6 three pointer? Not to mention, swatted Danny Green to seal the game?

He averaged almost 3 offensive rebounds per game in last years finals. If the Heat had lost to Indiana, than Bosh could get the blame for being really underwhelming. The Finals was actually a make up series and he did what he had to do to get them to beat a team that was damn near their equal. Bosh gets this rep as being overpaid, though I do not think you can find 5 PF’s who make the same money he does (outside of their rookie contract) who would have close to his impact on a night to night basis.

Also, the player you have suggested as the possible replacement has proven just about nothing. He is a great shot blocker, always has been. Would not confuse that with necessarily being a great defender, or much better than Chris Bosh on that end of the floor. Than, on the offensive end, he has done incredibly little this season. Sanders is averaging 6.4 ppg and 6.4 rpg. On a bad team that could use scoring from him desperately. Do you know how much better Chris Bosh would be doing in that situation? Sanders is shooting 42.5% FG and 45.2% FT (Bosh is going for 53.4% FG and 80.4% FT right now).

So, how does Larry Sanders and an 8 million dollar player exactly make the Heat that much better? People seem to come up with this idea that you can use two "solid players" to make up for one "good player" and things will be that much better. So, if Sanders is making 11 million, not providing close to the versatility Bosh provides offensively, who is this other player who will team up with him to make the Heat better? If you are signing a player to an 8 Million dollar (per year) contract, you are probably not getting a top level starter.

I think that if you can keep Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole, you role with Bosh. He is still one of the better PF’s in the league and just makes them so dangerous on offense. He provides major match-up problems on most nights and while he has been seen as the weak link, he has sacrificed the most. Plus, imagine what the Heat would be like without him when Dwyane Wade is unavailable. With Chris Bosh, they have a chance. With Larry Sanders and the invisible man? Don’t see it.

The Heat obviously have a decision to make, though I would lean towards keeping Bosh if they want to keep the Big 3. I am not sure the Heat are a better team with Larry Sanders and Kyle Lowry/Darren Collison as opposed to keeping Bosh and Chalmers. Bosh has been pretty damn durable (another scratch against Sanders) and it does not look like he is slowing down much. If anything, Dwyane Wade would be the one I was most worried about. I see a lot more SG’s catching up to Dwyane as opposed to PF’s catching up to Bosh.

Understand it is about sustainability as opposed to just thinking Bosh is holding them back. The issue is, the 11 million and 8 million dollar man doing what the 19 million dollar man does, not overly realistic. Unless you can actually name realistic options and what they do to replace Chris Bosh, I think Chris Bosh is worth it. You are not going to find a "third option" in his realm in accordance to their position.

Think that Chandler Parsons or Ryan Anderson make the Heat better than having Chris Bosh? Well, that is your prerogative, though not sure either is available and I somehow doubt it when they get added to the Heat. Larry Sanders, Beasley (who might get offered money somewhere else, plus still can’t play enough defense to get consistent minutes) and the 8 million dollar man does not seem to stack up in comparison to keeping Chris Bosh. They have to worry about age and depth, though they will still have to do so if they don’t keep Bosh. You would have to upgrade those two players to fill in for a lot. That is not as easy as it sounds.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

I’m not worried about thumbs ups so who cares…

I know building a great team is not as easy as it sounds. My talk is just talk, and they are my views on what I think would make the Heat better. I’m just saying that a more traditional big man (doesn’t have to be Larry Sanders) would fit the Heat better especially considering that they are aging (Wade and Bosh).

I know Chris Bosh can still put up big numbers in the regular season, I agree with you on that. But… Roy Hibbert and Paul George are very young. The Heat will need to make major changes in the coming seasons to keep on par with the Pacers.

And Lebron might leave so this talk is all theoretical… These are radical proposals I’m I introducing and most likely will not happen, but I believe that Lebron can benefit more from a traditional big man in this situation with the Heat. Let’s not get too serious here it’s just a forum (I’m just trying to get viewpoints), at least I brought up a topic that caused you to write an essay.

Hey, at least I’m not afraid to say something that may be unpopular.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Just probably could have been researched and thought out a tad more. Bosh has been playing well and it is so hard to see Larry Sanders filling that role. This is a guy who is still struggling on the worst team in the league. If Bosh were on Milwaukee, it is hard not to see him being their best player by far. He turns 30 in March, but does that still not give him another 3 or so good years?

Their is a difference between being an All-Star a couple times and a perennial All-Star. I believe that soon, Chris Bosh will make his 9th straight All-Star team. Their is a reason he keeps making it and that is because he is indeed one of the better players in the league at his position. People look at stats and see him have a bad game, they say other players might make the team better. Bottom line is, it is hard to see them replacing a perennial All-Star and getting close to the same production from that role. 

One thing I even remember is people saying the Heat should have kept Beasley after Bosh’s start to 2011. Look at Beasley being on this team, plus his subsequent few seasons, and you will see that is crazy. Larry Sanders is a big time fantasy player, just not necessarily close to Chris Bosh as a real player. If they had Larry Sanders and Michael Beasley at the 4-5, without Chris Bosh, I would not even close to like their odds more against Indiana in the upcoming play-offs. They just simply do not affect the game the way Chris Bosh does, which is why despite public opinion, the coaches keep putting him on the All-Star team. He has not been a letdown at all and most suggestions for possible replacements (even those given as realistic replacements) probably cannot say the same.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Just probably could have been researched and thought out a tad more. Bosh has been playing well and it is so hard to see Larry Sanders filling that role. This is a guy who is still struggling on the worst team in the league. If Bosh were on Milwaukee, it is hard not to see him being their best player by far. He turns 30 in March, but does that still not give him another 3 or so good years?

Their is a difference between being an All-Star a couple times and a perennial All-Star. I believe that soon, Chris Bosh will make his 9th straight All-Star team. Their is a reason he keeps making it and that is because he is indeed one of the better players in the league at his position. People look at stats and see him have a bad game, they say other players might make the team better. Bottom line is, it is hard to see them replacing a perennial All-Star and getting close to the same production from that role. 

One thing I even remember is people saying the Heat should have kept Beasley after Bosh’s start to 2011. Look at Beasley being on this team, plus his subsequent few seasons, and you will see that is crazy. Larry Sanders is a big time fantasy player, just not necessarily close to Chris Bosh as a real player. If they had Larry Sanders and Michael Beasley at the 4-5, without Chris Bosh, I would not even close to like their odds more against Indiana in the upcoming play-offs. They just simply do not affect the game the way Chris Bosh does, which is why despite public opinion, the coaches keep putting him on the All-Star team. He has not been a letdown at all and most suggestions for possible replacements (even those given as realistic replacements) probably cannot say the same.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

I’m not worried about thumbs ups so who cares…

I know building a great team is not as easy as it sounds. My talk is just talk, and they are my views on what I think would make the Heat better. I’m just saying that a more traditional big man (doesn’t have to be Larry Sanders) would fit the Heat better especially considering that they are aging (Wade and Bosh).

I know Chris Bosh can still put up big numbers in the regular season, I agree with you on that. But… Roy Hibbert and Paul George are very young. The Heat will need to make major changes in the coming seasons to keep on par with the Pacers.

And Lebron might leave so this talk is all theoretical… These are radical proposals I’m I introducing and most likely will not happen, but I believe that Lebron can benefit more from a traditional big man in this situation with the Heat. Let’s not get too serious here it’s just a forum (I’m just trying to get viewpoints), at least I brought up a topic that caused you to write an essay.

Hey, at least I’m not afraid to say something that may be unpopular.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Think that the way you said it just led to the posts you are mostly seeing. First of all, no, Chris Bosh is not holding the Heat back. Hasn’t been, as much as he is the easiest person to pick on as far as the "Big 3" is concerned. I absolutely saw Chris Bosh play in the finals and beyond his Game 7 O-fer, he was pretty damn crucial. Do you remember that this guy got the offensive rebound that led to Ray Allen’s Game 6 three pointer? Not to mention, swatted Danny Green to seal the game?

He averaged almost 3 offensive rebounds per game in last years finals. If the Heat had lost to Indiana, than Bosh could get the blame for being really underwhelming. The Finals was actually a make up series and he did what he had to do to get them to beat a team that was damn near their equal. Bosh gets this rep as being overpaid, though I do not think you can find 5 PF’s who make the same money he does (outside of their rookie contract) who would have close to his impact on a night to night basis.

Also, the player you have suggested as the possible replacement has proven just about nothing. He is a great shot blocker, always has been. Would not confuse that with necessarily being a great defender, or much better than Chris Bosh on that end of the floor. Than, on the offensive end, he has done incredibly little this season. Sanders is averaging 6.4 ppg and 6.4 rpg. On a bad team that could use scoring from him desperately. Do you know how much better Chris Bosh would be doing in that situation? Sanders is shooting 42.5% FG and 45.2% FT (Bosh is going for 53.4% FG and 80.4% FT right now).

So, how does Larry Sanders and an 8 million dollar player exactly make the Heat that much better? People seem to come up with this idea that you can use two "solid players" to make up for one "good player" and things will be that much better. So, if Sanders is making 11 million, not providing close to the versatility Bosh provides offensively, who is this other player who will team up with him to make the Heat better? If you are signing a player to an 8 Million dollar (per year) contract, you are probably not getting a top level starter.

I think that if you can keep Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole, you role with Bosh. He is still one of the better PF’s in the league and just makes them so dangerous on offense. He provides major match-up problems on most nights and while he has been seen as the weak link, he has sacrificed the most. Plus, imagine what the Heat would be like without him when Dwyane Wade is unavailable. With Chris Bosh, they have a chance. With Larry Sanders and the invisible man? Don’t see it.

The Heat obviously have a decision to make, though I would lean towards keeping Bosh if they want to keep the Big 3. I am not sure the Heat are a better team with Larry Sanders and Kyle Lowry/Darren Collison as opposed to keeping Bosh and Chalmers. Bosh has been pretty damn durable (another scratch against Sanders) and it does not look like he is slowing down much. If anything, Dwyane Wade would be the one I was most worried about. I see a lot more SG’s catching up to Dwyane as opposed to PF’s catching up to Bosh.

Understand it is about sustainability as opposed to just thinking Bosh is holding them back. The issue is, the 11 million and 8 million dollar man doing what the 19 million dollar man does, not overly realistic. Unless you can actually name realistic options and what they do to replace Chris Bosh, I think Chris Bosh is worth it. You are not going to find a "third option" in his realm in accordance to their position.

Think that Chandler Parsons or Ryan Anderson make the Heat better than having Chris Bosh? Well, that is your prerogative, though not sure either is available and I somehow doubt it when they get added to the Heat. Larry Sanders, Beasley (who might get offered money somewhere else, plus still can’t play enough defense to get consistent minutes) and the 8 million dollar man does not seem to stack up in comparison to keeping Chris Bosh. They have to worry about age and depth, though they will still have to do so if they don’t keep Bosh. You would have to upgrade those two players to fill in for a lot. That is not as easy as it sounds.

[usfballerParticipant]

 The Heat guard the shite out of the ball ALL over the floor. Chris Bosh and, to a lesser degree, Chris Anderson’s ability to help/hedge/switch ball screens. It doesn’t matter who’s protecting the rim if teams can’t get to or get open looks. At that point, Bosh’s only job is to make sure the Hibbert’s, Deandre Jordan’s don’t get an offemsive rebound. Also why LeBron can almost chalk up a double-double every night. 

[usfballerParticipant]

 The Heat guard the shite out of the ball ALL over the floor. Chris Bosh and, to a lesser degree, Chris Anderson’s ability to help/hedge/switch ball screens. It doesn’t matter who’s protecting the rim if teams can’t get to or get open looks. At that point, Bosh’s only job is to make sure the Hibbert’s, Deandre Jordan’s don’t get an offemsive rebound. Also why LeBron can almost chalk up a double-double every night. 

[Captain LParticipant]

Contestwinner: Why do you have such a love affair with Sainders?? He’s not that good!!!!

[contestwinnerParticipant]

It was just a suggestion….Michael Beasley also wasn’t good before going to the Heat. Did you watch the game today? He did pretty good if you ask me. Nice turn around.

I think the Heat need more of a traditional big man, not necessarily Larry Sanders.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

People talk about a "traditional big man" like they are easily available. Their really are not many out there. They are hard to find. Plus, for as "untraditional" as Chris Bosh may be, he still is a match-up nightmare and is a guy you can put on the floor with four other guys without freaking out about how you are going to score. His defense is not bad in the least.

With Michael Beasley, yes, he has played a decent minor role as a bench scorer. Just don’t act like he would be close to a viable replacement for Chris Bosh. The guy still has major issues as a defender. That is part of the reason he has not lived up to his expectations as an NBA player. He is not the rebounder or defender that Chris Bosh is, not close. It is nice to see him playing a role after most people had given up on him, though it is hard to say he has turned into a championship caliber starter.

You know who else did pretty well today? Chris Bosh. He and LeBron James were the reason that Michael Beasley could score a bunch of his points in garbage time. Beasley as a complementary guy has been nice. Expecting a "traditional big man" (who, I am not sure exists) and Michael Beasley to fill in for Bosh? Just not seeing it. Can’t imagine Beasley guarding David West and Larry Sanders facing off with Roy Hibbert, without thinking that team would be getting destroyed in those match-ups. Chris Bosh had a bad Indiana series, still would take that over what I would expect from those two in that same scenario.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

People talk about a "traditional big man" like they are easily available. Their really are not many out there. They are hard to find. Plus, for as "untraditional" as Chris Bosh may be, he still is a match-up nightmare and is a guy you can put on the floor with four other guys without freaking out about how you are going to score. His defense is not bad in the least.

With Michael Beasley, yes, he has played a decent minor role as a bench scorer. Just don’t act like he would be close to a viable replacement for Chris Bosh. The guy still has major issues as a defender. That is part of the reason he has not lived up to his expectations as an NBA player. He is not the rebounder or defender that Chris Bosh is, not close. It is nice to see him playing a role after most people had given up on him, though it is hard to say he has turned into a championship caliber starter.

You know who else did pretty well today? Chris Bosh. He and LeBron James were the reason that Michael Beasley could score a bunch of his points in garbage time. Beasley as a complementary guy has been nice. Expecting a "traditional big man" (who, I am not sure exists) and Michael Beasley to fill in for Bosh? Just not seeing it. Can’t imagine Beasley guarding David West and Larry Sanders facing off with Roy Hibbert, without thinking that team would be getting destroyed in those match-ups. Chris Bosh had a bad Indiana series, still would take that over what I would expect from those two in that same scenario.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

It was just a suggestion….Michael Beasley also wasn’t good before going to the Heat. Did you watch the game today? He did pretty good if you ask me. Nice turn around.

I think the Heat need more of a traditional big man, not necessarily Larry Sanders.

[Captain LParticipant]

Contestwinner: Why do you have such a love affair with Sainders?? He’s not that good!!!!

[Jester87Participant]

The Heat outscores opponents by 10 points per 100 possessions when Bosh is on the floor, they’re pretty much even when he’s out. Wow, that’s holding them back! I think he was a bit overrated when he played for Toronto, but now he has to be one of the most underappreciated players in the league. He’s a key for both their offense (http://www.grantland.com/features/lebron-james-nba-most-highly-evolved-offense/) and their defense (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/10/16/4831376/chris-bosh-video-breakdown-blitz-miami-heat, and he does much more than that on defense, he’s become a great help defender, he doesn’t block many shots but his timing for rotations is almost always perfect) and very few players would be able to bring the same kind of two-way contribution.

I have huge respect for what he’s doing because he accepted a smaller role to help his team win instead of whining for his shots and stats and he has to do that while, instead of getting appreciation, he gets a lot of this kind of criticism from fans and some media because it’s easier to just check a box score and see he’s not scoring as much as he did, but it’s harder to notice that staying far from the basket he’s opening driving lines for LeBron or D-Wade. Instead of getting praises for his unselfishness he has to listen the Skip Bayless idiots of the world telling him he has to go in the low post, as if it was a pickup game and not the Nba that you can just go wherever you want and do what you feel like doing and not play within schemes you have to execute. Or as if he didn’t go in the post because he’s soft and not because Spoelstra tells him to stay out of the paint. And it’s pretty much the same for his rebounds, it’s easier to notice he grabs only 6/7 rebounds per game and say that’s unacceptable for a 6’11 guy instead of watching the game and seeing that Miami’s defensive schemes on pick and roll forces him to go far from the rim most of the time and he doesn’t grab the rebounds because he simply can’t, he’s far from where the ball ends. While when he actually has a chance to rebound the ball, he gets a fair percentage of those: he grabs 63.3% of rebounds per chance, per SportVU player tracking. Just a few names of players with similar percentages: Kevin Love (65.8%), Joakim Noah (62.8%), Anthony Davis (62.3%), Blake Griffin (64.8%), Derrick Favors (60.8%), Tyson Chandler (63.9%). Those guys gets more rebounds mostly because they play closer to the rim on D.

Is Chris Bosh overpaid? Hard to say, his raw stats would suggest so, but luckily statistics evaluation have developed so much and nobody is getting paid only basing on how many ppg he scores or how many rpg he grabs. You may bring another player instead of Bosh and he wouldn’t score 20 ppg nonetheless, because that’s just not what they need. There aren’t just enough shots and possessions available to score 20 ppg next to LeBron and D-Wade. You may bring another big, a better shot-blocker, but would he be able to move his feet on the perimeter the same way Bosh does? Could they still blitz pick and rolls and play super aggressive defense like they do now? If not they would be forced to change all their defensive schemes and turn to a more conservative style. It may work, but it may as well not and those are not changes you make in a week, it takes a lot of time and repetition to master a defensive system. Their current defense and offense led them to back to back titles and they’re still very good. Is it worth the risk? So you may not like how much Bosh produces in terms of ppg and rpg and he may look overpaid if you base on that, but how many players are there that could be such good fits for both their offensive and defensive systems? Very few. And when something is rare it’s also expensive.

[Jester87Participant]

The Heat outscores opponents by 10 points per 100 possessions when Bosh is on the floor, they’re pretty much even when he’s out. Wow, that’s holding them back! I think he was a bit overrated when he played for Toronto, but now he has to be one of the most underappreciated players in the league. He’s a key for both their offense (http://www.grantland.com/features/lebron-james-nba-most-highly-evolved-offense/) and their defense (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/10/16/4831376/chris-bosh-video-breakdown-blitz-miami-heat, and he does much more than that on defense, he’s become a great help defender, he doesn’t block many shots but his timing for rotations is almost always perfect) and very few players would be able to bring the same kind of two-way contribution.

I have huge respect for what he’s doing because he accepted a smaller role to help his team win instead of whining for his shots and stats and he has to do that while, instead of getting appreciation, he gets a lot of this kind of criticism from fans and some media because it’s easier to just check a box score and see he’s not scoring as much as he did, but it’s harder to notice that staying far from the basket he’s opening driving lines for LeBron or D-Wade. Instead of getting praises for his unselfishness he has to listen the Skip Bayless idiots of the world telling him he has to go in the low post, as if it was a pickup game and not the Nba that you can just go wherever you want and do what you feel like doing and not play within schemes you have to execute. Or as if he didn’t go in the post because he’s soft and not because Spoelstra tells him to stay out of the paint. And it’s pretty much the same for his rebounds, it’s easier to notice he grabs only 6/7 rebounds per game and say that’s unacceptable for a 6’11 guy instead of watching the game and seeing that Miami’s defensive schemes on pick and roll forces him to go far from the rim most of the time and he doesn’t grab the rebounds because he simply can’t, he’s far from where the ball ends. While when he actually has a chance to rebound the ball, he gets a fair percentage of those: he grabs 63.3% of rebounds per chance, per SportVU player tracking. Just a few names of players with similar percentages: Kevin Love (65.8%), Joakim Noah (62.8%), Anthony Davis (62.3%), Blake Griffin (64.8%), Derrick Favors (60.8%), Tyson Chandler (63.9%). Those guys gets more rebounds mostly because they play closer to the rim on D.

Is Chris Bosh overpaid? Hard to say, his raw stats would suggest so, but luckily statistics evaluation have developed so much and nobody is getting paid only basing on how many ppg he scores or how many rpg he grabs. You may bring another player instead of Bosh and he wouldn’t score 20 ppg nonetheless, because that’s just not what they need. There aren’t just enough shots and possessions available to score 20 ppg next to LeBron and D-Wade. You may bring another big, a better shot-blocker, but would he be able to move his feet on the perimeter the same way Bosh does? Could they still blitz pick and rolls and play super aggressive defense like they do now? If not they would be forced to change all their defensive schemes and turn to a more conservative style. It may work, but it may as well not and those are not changes you make in a week, it takes a lot of time and repetition to master a defensive system. Their current defense and offense led them to back to back titles and they’re still very good. Is it worth the risk? So you may not like how much Bosh produces in terms of ppg and rpg and he may look overpaid if you base on that, but how many players are there that could be such good fits for both their offensive and defensive systems? Very few. And when something is rare it’s also expensive.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

I’ll just respond to everyone here.

For the record, Larry Sanders was just a suggestion, I also mentioned Deandre Jordan and Greg Monroe
These won’t happen, I’m just saying I like the Heat if a traditional big man is paired with Lebron.

I’m not going to do more research because this is just a forum and just some of my thoughts. Let’s not get to analytical here now…

I already said that it is hard to find a traditional big man and that most of this isn’t realistic.

Lebron could go to a big man, he doesn’t have to wait (just a thought), but he will stay with the Heat in my opinion.

Chris Bosh did come up with that big rebound in the finals, but Lebron put them in that situation in the first place with his big 3rd and 4th quarters. Also, the past finals was such a freak occurrence and the Heat won’t get that lucky again.

The Heat have been a success with Bosh, but the door is closing with all the younger talent competing for titles (Pacers, Thunder, Blazers, Spurs). I say even if the Heat manage to win a title this year that they should part ways with Bosh. Of course this is easier said than done and won’t happen if they win.

Rebounds are a pretty straightforward stat, he doesn’t get enough. Plain and simple. I have Bosh on my fantasy team so I know how well he has been performing lately, but let’s focus more on playoffs and not the season.

Answer this: If the Heat lose to the Pacers in the conference finals this year and Chris Bosh gets dominated by Roy Hibbert averages 11 points and 4 rebounds (like he did last year!) What changes do you make to the Heat?

2013 ECF Chris Bosh: 11 Points 4 rebounds a game
Roy Hibbert: 22 points 10 rebounds a game

Defend Chris Bosh for his performance in the 2013 ECF…and I won’t even put the finals stats because we all already know.. what makes you think he will do better this year.

[Jester87Participant]

"For the record, Larry Sanders was just a suggestion, I also mentioned Deandre Jordan and Greg Monroe
These won’t happen, I’m just saying I like the Heat if a traditional big man is paired with Lebron."

All of those names are bad. DeAndre Jordan and Sanders are just inept offensive players. Greg Monroe is a horrible defender. If they want a big next to LeBron they have to completely change their system both on offense and defense. No more pace and space on offense, no more blitzing and aggression on defense. It may work, it may not. The other system is proven.

"Chris Bosh did come up with that big rebound in the finals, but Lebron put them in that situation in the first place with his big 3rd and 4th quarters. Also, the past finals was such a freak occurrence and the Heat won’t get that lucky again."

This is just no sense, each play has value on itself, if you put that way even Ray Allen 3 pointer is not that important. Winners are always lucky, nobody wins without some luck. People should stop with the ringzzz or fail attitude. Were the Spurs a failure last year? No, they weren’t, they played a great season, great finals, they lost but really got close and could’ve won. Would the Heat have been a failure had they lost? No, not at all and we all thought they had lost with 3 seconds to play in game 6.

"The Heat have been a success with Bosh, but the door is closing with all the younger talent competing for titles (Pacers, Thunder, Blazers, Spurs). I say even if the Heat manage to win a title this year that they should part ways with Bosh."

Bosh has at least other 3 years of his best basketball remaining. Anyways planning for the future it’s almost impossible, they don’t know if LeBron is staying and that’s the most important thing. I’m not even sure LeBron would like to stay if Bosh doesn’t. I mean, pretty much all the role players in the team are old and won’t be there in the next years (Battier, Haslem, Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Chris Anderson), D-Wade himself is aging and his knees are a big question mark, if Bosh goes away this team is basically in rebuilding mode, obviously if you have LeBron you’re still competitive and they would have a lot of money but will they be able to put on a team good enough to compete for the title?

"Rebounds are a pretty straightforward stat, he doesn’t get enough. Plain and simple. I have Bosh on my fantasy team so I know how well he has been performing lately, but let’s focus more on playoffs and not the season."

Or are they? You’re so wrong. Unless you think Bosh got soft and stopped fighting for boards once he got to Miami, because he was grabbing almost 11 rebounds in Toronto playing next to Bargnani (thus, not a physical player). In all honesty I’m pretty sure defensive schemes have a great impact on rpg numbers, at least more than weather. And by the way, Nba front offices and coaching staff usually are not that worried about fantasy leagues when they make their evaluations on players.

"Answer this: If the Heat lose to the Pacers in the conference finals this year and Chris Bosh gets dominated by Roy Hibbert averages 11 points and 4 rebounds (like he did last year!) What changes do you make to the Heat?

2013 ECF Chris Bosh: 11 Points 4 rebounds a game
Roy Hibbert: 22 points 10 rebounds a game"

If the Heat lost to the Celtics in the conference finals two years ago then you had to give Bosh more space because he missed most of the series?

[Jester87Participant]

"For the record, Larry Sanders was just a suggestion, I also mentioned Deandre Jordan and Greg Monroe
These won’t happen, I’m just saying I like the Heat if a traditional big man is paired with Lebron."

All of those names are bad. DeAndre Jordan and Sanders are just inept offensive players. Greg Monroe is a horrible defender. If they want a big next to LeBron they have to completely change their system both on offense and defense. No more pace and space on offense, no more blitzing and aggression on defense. It may work, it may not. The other system is proven.

"Chris Bosh did come up with that big rebound in the finals, but Lebron put them in that situation in the first place with his big 3rd and 4th quarters. Also, the past finals was such a freak occurrence and the Heat won’t get that lucky again."

This is just no sense, each play has value on itself, if you put that way even Ray Allen 3 pointer is not that important. Winners are always lucky, nobody wins without some luck. People should stop with the ringzzz or fail attitude. Were the Spurs a failure last year? No, they weren’t, they played a great season, great finals, they lost but really got close and could’ve won. Would the Heat have been a failure had they lost? No, not at all and we all thought they had lost with 3 seconds to play in game 6.

"The Heat have been a success with Bosh, but the door is closing with all the younger talent competing for titles (Pacers, Thunder, Blazers, Spurs). I say even if the Heat manage to win a title this year that they should part ways with Bosh."

Bosh has at least other 3 years of his best basketball remaining. Anyways planning for the future it’s almost impossible, they don’t know if LeBron is staying and that’s the most important thing. I’m not even sure LeBron would like to stay if Bosh doesn’t. I mean, pretty much all the role players in the team are old and won’t be there in the next years (Battier, Haslem, Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Chris Anderson), D-Wade himself is aging and his knees are a big question mark, if Bosh goes away this team is basically in rebuilding mode, obviously if you have LeBron you’re still competitive and they would have a lot of money but will they be able to put on a team good enough to compete for the title?

"Rebounds are a pretty straightforward stat, he doesn’t get enough. Plain and simple. I have Bosh on my fantasy team so I know how well he has been performing lately, but let’s focus more on playoffs and not the season."

Or are they? You’re so wrong. Unless you think Bosh got soft and stopped fighting for boards once he got to Miami, because he was grabbing almost 11 rebounds in Toronto playing next to Bargnani (thus, not a physical player). In all honesty I’m pretty sure defensive schemes have a great impact on rpg numbers, at least more than weather. And by the way, Nba front offices and coaching staff usually are not that worried about fantasy leagues when they make their evaluations on players.

"Answer this: If the Heat lose to the Pacers in the conference finals this year and Chris Bosh gets dominated by Roy Hibbert averages 11 points and 4 rebounds (like he did last year!) What changes do you make to the Heat?

2013 ECF Chris Bosh: 11 Points 4 rebounds a game
Roy Hibbert: 22 points 10 rebounds a game"

If the Heat lost to the Celtics in the conference finals two years ago then you had to give Bosh more space because he missed most of the series?

[contestwinnerParticipant]

I’ll just respond to everyone here.

For the record, Larry Sanders was just a suggestion, I also mentioned Deandre Jordan and Greg Monroe
These won’t happen, I’m just saying I like the Heat if a traditional big man is paired with Lebron.

I’m not going to do more research because this is just a forum and just some of my thoughts. Let’s not get to analytical here now…

I already said that it is hard to find a traditional big man and that most of this isn’t realistic.

Lebron could go to a big man, he doesn’t have to wait (just a thought), but he will stay with the Heat in my opinion.

Chris Bosh did come up with that big rebound in the finals, but Lebron put them in that situation in the first place with his big 3rd and 4th quarters. Also, the past finals was such a freak occurrence and the Heat won’t get that lucky again.

The Heat have been a success with Bosh, but the door is closing with all the younger talent competing for titles (Pacers, Thunder, Blazers, Spurs). I say even if the Heat manage to win a title this year that they should part ways with Bosh. Of course this is easier said than done and won’t happen if they win.

Rebounds are a pretty straightforward stat, he doesn’t get enough. Plain and simple. I have Bosh on my fantasy team so I know how well he has been performing lately, but let’s focus more on playoffs and not the season.

Answer this: If the Heat lose to the Pacers in the conference finals this year and Chris Bosh gets dominated by Roy Hibbert averages 11 points and 4 rebounds (like he did last year!) What changes do you make to the Heat?

2013 ECF Chris Bosh: 11 Points 4 rebounds a game
Roy Hibbert: 22 points 10 rebounds a game

Defend Chris Bosh for his performance in the 2013 ECF…and I won’t even put the finals stats because we all already know.. what makes you think he will do better this year.

[PhillySports0Participant]

 Is Chris Bosh worth the money? Yes not a question, and if it was up to him I bet he would take a little pay cut to help out the salary a little because he’s that kind of team player..

 

 Now Yes you can knock Chris Bosh for not performing well in last year’s playoffs but if I can remember the man’s defense was not bad at all in the Finals at all. Greg Oden, Andersen and possibly another signing maybe a Bynum but not sure, are there to take help out Bosh with rebounding but all honestly its easier said then done to stop Hibbert from rebouding

And Chris Bosh is perfect for this team for the reason that if a traditional center was on the team, it would just clog up the lane from the penetration from Lebron and D-Wade and that kind of spot up shooter is all Lebron needs because he can kick it out when attacking.

Honestly I would find it tough to find another big man that I would want Miami to replace him with except obviously some of the elite centers that can spot up and shoot. But Bosh is everything Miami needs and should not be touched as long as their in a title pursuit 

 

 

 

[PhillySports0Participant]

 Is Chris Bosh worth the money? Yes not a question, and if it was up to him I bet he would take a little pay cut to help out the salary a little because he’s that kind of team player..

 

 Now Yes you can knock Chris Bosh for not performing well in last year’s playoffs but if I can remember the man’s defense was not bad at all in the Finals at all. Greg Oden, Andersen and possibly another signing maybe a Bynum but not sure, are there to take help out Bosh with rebounding but all honestly its easier said then done to stop Hibbert from rebouding

And Chris Bosh is perfect for this team for the reason that if a traditional center was on the team, it would just clog up the lane from the penetration from Lebron and D-Wade and that kind of spot up shooter is all Lebron needs because he can kick it out when attacking.

Honestly I would find it tough to find another big man that I would want Miami to replace him with except obviously some of the elite centers that can spot up and shoot. But Bosh is everything Miami needs and should not be touched as long as their in a title pursuit 

 

 

 

[Snubs15Participant]

 Basketball isn’t just about points and rebounds. There are a lot of plays that don’t show up on the scoreboard, and Chris is a team first guy who is sacrificing more than any other player in the league.  

   He’s absolutely worth his contract, if he hadn’t of signed with the heat, he would’ve signed somewhere else for a very similar deal, if not more money. He’s playing as a third option behind two ball dominant players and he puts up the best numbers in the league for a third option. 

Give him his own team and he averages 20-10 on a playoff team, probably not a contender though.

The fact that the heat have won back to back titles with bosh on the squad shows that he is not hurting the heat. At least not enough so that they can’t be a dominant team. They recorded the second longest winning streak in nba history last season so clearly something is working. And it makes no sense whatsoever to add a big man who can’t shoot to clog the lane for LeBron and D wade. You just have a strange feeling that this would work? Yet your only evidence that this would work is saying bosh only averaged 11-4 in the ecf …  You could be right, but clearly its not a very popular opinion. 

[Snubs15Participant]

 Basketball isn’t just about points and rebounds. There are a lot of plays that don’t show up on the scoreboard, and Chris is a team first guy who is sacrificing more than any other player in the league.  

   He’s absolutely worth his contract, if he hadn’t of signed with the heat, he would’ve signed somewhere else for a very similar deal, if not more money. He’s playing as a third option behind two ball dominant players and he puts up the best numbers in the league for a third option. 

Give him his own team and he averages 20-10 on a playoff team, probably not a contender though.

The fact that the heat have won back to back titles with bosh on the squad shows that he is not hurting the heat. At least not enough so that they can’t be a dominant team. They recorded the second longest winning streak in nba history last season so clearly something is working. And it makes no sense whatsoever to add a big man who can’t shoot to clog the lane for LeBron and D wade. You just have a strange feeling that this would work? Yet your only evidence that this would work is saying bosh only averaged 11-4 in the ecf …  You could be right, but clearly its not a very popular opinion. 

[ag-pennypackerParticipant]

If you’re going to pick someone who would fit better than Bosh on the Heat, pick Ibaka.  He has a good jumper shot and is a better rebounder and defender than Bosh.  Bosh might be the third best jumper shooting big in the NBA behind Dirk and Aldridge.  That quality fits extremely well on the Heat.  He isn’t a bad fit and he is worth the money. 

[ag-pennypackerParticipant]

If you’re going to pick someone who would fit better than Bosh on the Heat, pick Ibaka.  He has a good jumper shot and is a better rebounder and defender than Bosh.  Bosh might be the third best jumper shooting big in the NBA behind Dirk and Aldridge.  That quality fits extremely well on the Heat.  He isn’t a bad fit and he is worth the money. 

[ElPananderoParticipant]

 I love Larry, he’s a great shot blocker, and who knows maybe a change of scenery will turn him around, but as great a rim protector as he is, I rarley see him leave that area. The first round of last year’s playoffs, Chirs Bosh (ironically) had so many open three attempts because Larry wouldn’t try and cover that long ball. In most cases this isn’t a huge issue at the 5, but having a non-existant perimieter defense game can hurt against the right opponent, and more so if he doesn’t leak out on roatations or switches (which I havent really conciouslly looked for, espicially since he’s sat out so much of this year). 

[ElPananderoParticipant]

 I love Larry, he’s a great shot blocker, and who knows maybe a change of scenery will turn him around, but as great a rim protector as he is, I rarley see him leave that area. The first round of last year’s playoffs, Chirs Bosh (ironically) had so many open three attempts because Larry wouldn’t try and cover that long ball. In most cases this isn’t a huge issue at the 5, but having a non-existant perimieter defense game can hurt against the right opponent, and more so if he doesn’t leak out on roatations or switches (which I havent really conciouslly looked for, espicially since he’s sat out so much of this year). 

[jaycee24Participant]

Is David West worth the money? No. Is David Lee worth the money? No. Are Kendrick Perkins, Carlos Boozer, Danny Granger, Andre Igoudala, Tyson Chandler etc etc worth the money? Statiscally speaking the answer (other than maybe Lee this year)o. Teams who are championship contenders don’t just ship out a key contributor because 2 years from now he won’t be worth the money. There’s a lot more that goes into what these guys contribute like team chemistry, floor spacing, team morale…ask Joe Dumars what happens when you put a team together based on bare statistics. I’m sure the Heat would be more than happy to win 2-3 who knows maybe 4 or 5 championships than fall off the face of the earth than sacrifice whatever championship contention window they have in hopes a young troubled big man can turn his career around for them

[jaycee24Participant]

Is David West worth the money? No. Is David Lee worth the money? No. Are Kendrick Perkins, Carlos Boozer, Danny Granger, Andre Igoudala, Tyson Chandler etc etc worth the money? Statiscally speaking the answer (other than maybe Lee this year)o. Teams who are championship contenders don’t just ship out a key contributor because 2 years from now he won’t be worth the money. There’s a lot more that goes into what these guys contribute like team chemistry, floor spacing, team morale…ask Joe Dumars what happens when you put a team together based on bare statistics. I’m sure the Heat would be more than happy to win 2-3 who knows maybe 4 or 5 championships than fall off the face of the earth than sacrifice whatever championship contention window they have in hopes a young troubled big man can turn his career around for them

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