[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

Kansas freshman Andrew Wiggins isn’t just a rising star. There’s a mystique around the 18-year-old from Toronto with the hops, mix tapes and world-wide following, already on the radar screen of the commercial interests seeking the next big thing–perhaps in the guise of a “Canadian LeBron!”–expected to enter the NBA draft in June and, at least until his college career began, to go No. 1.

Despite rising skepticism, Wiggins and Duke’s Jabari Parker still top most mock drafts. Wiggins remains No. 1 in the most visible ranking, ESPN maven Chad Ford’s Top 100. That leaves Andrew’s unlined face, as much as anyone’s, on the eagerly-awaited Class of 2014 that has prompted half the NBA teams to rebuild or, as it’s more commonly known, tank.

This just in: Wiggins is slipping out of contention for No. 1-2. The NBA guys I talk to say that will be Parker and Kansas seven-footer Joel Embiid. At No. 3, Wiggins has yet to separate himself from Kentucky power forward Julius Randle, Australian point guard Dante Exum and, depending on whom you talk to, Arizona forward Aaron Gordon.

So Wiggins, whose fame in high school far exceeded Kevin Durant’s at Montrose Christian (it’s in Rockville, Md., if you haven’t heard of it) could miss the top two… or three… or more?

“There’s zero chance of any team taking anybody before Jabari Parker,” says an Eastern Conference personnel guy. “And there’s zero chance of any team taking Wiggins before Joel Embiid.”

Deep as this draft class is, its star quotient is another question. Setting aside comparisons to LeBron James and Durant, who are beyond anyone on the horizon, no one in this class is as highly regarded as No. 1 picks Anthony Davis (2012), Kyrie Irving (2011), John Wall (2010), Blake Griffin (2009) or Derrick Rose (2008).

“If you called the Pelicans, the Cavs or any of those teams and offered this year’s first pick for their guy, they’d fall over laughing,” says a Western Conference personnel guy.

Parker, a 6-8 forward, has clearly been the best player with good size, great skills and, unlike Wiggins, a star’s commanding on-court presence. However, also unlike Wiggins, Parker isn’t an uber-athlete; he’s more like ‘decent,’ a limiting factor (if not a disabling one; think Magic Johnson, Larry Bird).

The 7-0, 240-pound Embiid—that’s two i’s, not “il” or “li”–is the raw one with the monster upside. A native of Cameroon who started playing at 16, he has strength, grace and is coming so fast, scouts dare to compare him to another late bloomer, Hakeem Olajuwon. “The people who went to Kansas practices to see Wiggins,” says the Eastern personnel guy, “emerged liking Embiid more.”

The 6-9 Randle is a powerhouse inside but that height in college usually means 6-7 1/2 in stocking feet at the pre-draft camp. The 6-6 Exum is a more athletic version of Philadelphia’s Michael Carter-Williams, this season’s runaway rookie of the year leader, with shooting ability as uncertain.

Wiggins, a 6-8 small forward, is blessed with fabulous athleticism and length but often drifts, or as scouts say, “Motor?” He has a “loose handle” with a high dribble and drives in straight lines, making it hard to get past defenders (“doesn’t beat you off the bounce”) and create his own shot, a make-or-break skill for NBA superstardom.

As special as Wiggins is physically, he now amounts to a super-athletic project. The intangibles that will decide, like coachability and hunger, are harder to judge… but drifting is a red flag, raising the question of how natural, or important, it is to stand out. It’s not something that came up with Kyrie, AD or Blake, to say nothing of the young KD, LeBron James or Kobe Bryant.

The media biggies are standing by their young man. In Ford’s last update on Dec. 16, he noted that Wiggins now faced “harsh scrutiny especially after a tepid performance”–of which there would be more. If Wiggins was more aggressive in some games, Ford saw it as “a very good sign if he can start doing it consistently.”

Sports Illustrated’s latest “Prospect Watch” on Wiggins called him “a victim of his own hype, with his electric play as a Canadian prep star putting him in an untenable, and perhaps no-win situation.” Noting his habit of “disappearing for long stretches,” SI’s Peter Bukowski asserted, “his game was never suited for the accolades and hype machine…. [He] was never going to be Kevin Durant as a freshman scoring machine.” Setting a new standard for staying positive, Bukowski wrote, “Oddly, the biggest thing Wiggins has going for him isn’t anything in his own game; it’s Paul George… [with] almost the identical building blocks George had, with even more polish to his game than had George at Fresno State.”

Actually, Wiggins’ preeminence is a creation of the hype machine. His buoyancy stems from his immense popularity with young fans, with all that signals to the media. As James was called the first superstar of the Twitter age, Wiggins is the first basketball phenom of the Youtube era.

Wiggins’ most watched videos on Youtube aren’t from his Kansas games, but prep and summer highlight reels. “Andrew Wiggins OFFICIAL Senior Year Hoopmixtape!” got more than 4,000,000 hits. A 2012 video titled, “Andrew Wiggins has SUPERSTAR Potential!!” got 1,700,000. A video of Andrews in Kansas’ Nov. 12 showdown with Duke, which Parker dominated, got 107,000.

No one is happy with the NBA’s 19-year-old age limit that effectively sends prospects like Wiggins to college on a transparent “one and done” basis. Nevertheless, it’s quieter than it was in 2003 when James entered the draft out of St. Vincent-St. Mary High School in Akron and the world all but fell at his feet while he sat in home room. There’s little appreciation of the odds that the bionic LeBron overcame, living up to unprecedented expectations. Wiggins looks more like what to expect when you put an embryo on a pedestal.

Half of Wiggins’ freshman season remains before the NCAA Tournament offers its opportunities to step up (or not). Players tend to come back better as sophomores and, often enough, as totally different players. Of course, Wiggins has acknowledged he’ll turn pro.

We won’t even know who will draft where until the June 5 lottery, after which teams needs will become factors or decide. In a more realistic format, Ford envisions three of the 14 potential lottery teams–the 76ers, Magic and Nuggets–taking Wiggins at No. 1.

I think Wiggins has a better chance of falling out of the top three than going No. 1. That’s what makes horse races and NBA teams and unmakes others. In any case, pray for Andrew Wiggins.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markheisler/2014/01/12/nba-wakes-to-find-andrew-wiggins-and-entire-class-of-14-arent-that-good/print/

A lot of good an interesting quotes, but the best line might be on of his own: “there’s little appreciation of the odds that the bionic LeBron overcame, living up to unprecedented expectations. Wiggins looks more like what to expect when you put an embryo on a pedestal.” Wiggins is having a very good freshmen season against a schedule that is really testing a young team. I mentioned this before, Kansas lost 75 percent of their minutes from last year. It is a new squad that faced a tough non-conference slate, and now faces an incredibly difficult Big XII season (although a DeAndre Kane-less or Kane-limited Iowa State team might not be as formidable tonight). It was unfair and unrealistic to think that there would not be a reality check that tamped down the Canadian LeBron talk, but it is a lesson that never fully takes hold with people who love and follow both the NCAA and NBA. College basketball at the highest levels is tough, and will challenge its freshmen.

[bloodshyParticipant]

It’s certainly true that Wiggins has lost some of his glitter and has often struggled in college, but all of the reasons people believed he’d probably be a superstar in the NBA are still there.  I could definitely see Wiggins dropping to #3 overall, but no further. While I would probably (at this moment) bet against Wiggins going #1, I certainly think he’s more likely to go #1 than dropping out of the top 3.

Even if Wiggins muddles through the rest of the season without breaking out in February/March, I still think he’s a lock to go top 3. Only a major implosion on his part would move him down beyond that point in my opinion.

[bloodshyParticipant]

It’s certainly true that Wiggins has lost some of his glitter and has often struggled in college, but all of the reasons people believed he’d probably be a superstar in the NBA are still there.  I could definitely see Wiggins dropping to #3 overall, but no further. While I would probably (at this moment) bet against Wiggins going #1, I certainly think he’s more likely to go #1 than dropping out of the top 3.

Even if Wiggins muddles through the rest of the season without breaking out in February/March, I still think he’s a lock to go top 3. Only a major implosion on his part would move him down beyond that point in my opinion.

[Ghost01Participant]

 Keep in mind, a year ago this time people were talking about Shabazz Muhammad and the number 1 pick.

Of course Wiggins is way better than Muhammad, but saying he is a lock for the top 3 is a tad ridiculous. Especially when one of the outsiders looking in is Randle, who basically has almost the same exact hype/opportunity that Wiggins does, and one is Exum, who is international, which means some team could absolutely fall in love with him. 

 

 

 

[Ghost01Participant]

 Keep in mind, a year ago this time people were talking about Shabazz Muhammad and the number 1 pick.

Of course Wiggins is way better than Muhammad, but saying he is a lock for the top 3 is a tad ridiculous. Especially when one of the outsiders looking in is Randle, who basically has almost the same exact hype/opportunity that Wiggins does, and one is Exum, who is international, which means some team could absolutely fall in love with him. 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

I think Embiid is number one right now, but by no means a sure thing.  Looks like a cross between Hakeem Olajuwon and Ralph Sampson. 

At 2, 3, and 4 I actually like Marcus Smart as an oversized point guard with solid athleticism and leadership skills, then Jabari if you need a scorer/shooter with Wiggins also in the mix. 

Wiggins projects better as a two way player than Jabari Parker.  It would also really, really help if Wiggins could knock down the 3 at a better rate.  I would LOVE to have Wiggins size as a shooting guard.  He could then project as the best shooting guard in the NBA for a decade or more. 

You can’t compare a guy to LeBron it’s just not fair.  BUT, you could call Andrew Wiggins the Canadian Dr. J or something like that.  A great athlete with a smooth game, good defense, highlight plays, and a solid shooter, not great.

The big comparison obviously is to Michael Jordan, the GOAT. 

Wiggins right now, is going for 15.7 points, 5.4 rebounds, and 1.4 assists.  He also has 15 steals and 14 blocks basically halfway through the season.

As a freshman at North Carolina Michael Jordan 13.5 points, 4.4 rebounds, and 1.8 assists.  Jordan finished his freshman season with a total of 41 steals and 8 blocks.

Pretty similar numbers with Wiggins being more aggressive from 3 (shooting 34% from deep on 50 attempts, while it doesn’t look like MJ took any as a freshman).

Jordan made a name for himself during March Madness when he made the game winner for the title.

Wiggins has March Madness ahead of him to make a name for himself.

Both Jordan and Wiggins joined loaded teams at blue chip programs for great coaches.  The comparisons to LeBron may be dead, but the comparisons to MJ so far are still valid (incredibly).

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

I think Embiid is number one right now, but by no means a sure thing.  Looks like a cross between Hakeem Olajuwon and Ralph Sampson. 

At 2, 3, and 4 I actually like Marcus Smart as an oversized point guard with solid athleticism and leadership skills, then Jabari if you need a scorer/shooter with Wiggins also in the mix. 

Wiggins projects better as a two way player than Jabari Parker.  It would also really, really help if Wiggins could knock down the 3 at a better rate.  I would LOVE to have Wiggins size as a shooting guard.  He could then project as the best shooting guard in the NBA for a decade or more. 

You can’t compare a guy to LeBron it’s just not fair.  BUT, you could call Andrew Wiggins the Canadian Dr. J or something like that.  A great athlete with a smooth game, good defense, highlight plays, and a solid shooter, not great.

The big comparison obviously is to Michael Jordan, the GOAT. 

Wiggins right now, is going for 15.7 points, 5.4 rebounds, and 1.4 assists.  He also has 15 steals and 14 blocks basically halfway through the season.

As a freshman at North Carolina Michael Jordan 13.5 points, 4.4 rebounds, and 1.8 assists.  Jordan finished his freshman season with a total of 41 steals and 8 blocks.

Pretty similar numbers with Wiggins being more aggressive from 3 (shooting 34% from deep on 50 attempts, while it doesn’t look like MJ took any as a freshman).

Jordan made a name for himself during March Madness when he made the game winner for the title.

Wiggins has March Madness ahead of him to make a name for himself.

Both Jordan and Wiggins joined loaded teams at blue chip programs for great coaches.  The comparisons to LeBron may be dead, but the comparisons to MJ so far are still valid (incredibly).

[drpg913Participant]

 Wigigns numbers for a freshman are pretty incredible and its just being over looked due to expecttations. Also there was no 3 point line during Jordan’s college career.

[drpg913Participant]

 Wigigns numbers for a freshman are pretty incredible and its just being over looked due to expecttations. Also there was no 3 point line during Jordan’s college career.

[max23Participant]

Zero chances he will be taken  before Parker??A month ago id say Parker is better but i dont agree with zero chance,now i just laugh…Not saying Parker wont go before Wiggins,although if Parker keeps playing like he has lately i doubt it(hes just not explosive enough if jumper isnt falling,and his potential on defense is lacking)but saying zero chance is ridiculous.

[max23Participant]

Zero chances he will be taken  before Parker??A month ago id say Parker is better but i dont agree with zero chance,now i just laugh…Not saying Parker wont go before Wiggins,although if Parker keeps playing like he has lately i doubt it(hes just not explosive enough if jumper isnt falling,and his potential on defense is lacking)but saying zero chance is ridiculous.

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

hmmm…

I really dont understand why Wiggins would be slipping. He hasnt played that poorly that ive seen. He is a little raw but i thought we all knew that? I can understand Parker going before him, based on his season so far but i would honestly still take Wiggins #1 if i had the first pick. 

Why?

Because of his athleticism and upside. He would easily be one of the most athletic NBA players RIGHT NOW. He really has no weakness besides an automatic outside shot, but his form looks good and i think he will get it. He has superstar written all over him!

The only reason i could see Embiib going ahead of either guy, is HIS upside as well. It just scares me when these 7 footers come out of nowhere and go so high based on their upside. (thabeet, oden, etc.) 

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

hmmm…

I really dont understand why Wiggins would be slipping. He hasnt played that poorly that ive seen. He is a little raw but i thought we all knew that? I can understand Parker going before him, based on his season so far but i would honestly still take Wiggins #1 if i had the first pick. 

Why?

Because of his athleticism and upside. He would easily be one of the most athletic NBA players RIGHT NOW. He really has no weakness besides an automatic outside shot, but his form looks good and i think he will get it. He has superstar written all over him!

The only reason i could see Embiib going ahead of either guy, is HIS upside as well. It just scares me when these 7 footers come out of nowhere and go so high based on their upside. (thabeet, oden, etc.) 

[ChrispyParticipant]

 Oden hardy came out of nowhere and was on the national scene for 3 years before his pick. Thabeet was just a bad pick, but teams had 3 years to watch him at UCONN. And while we are at it, Embiid certainly isn’t Saer Sene, ok?

[ChrispyParticipant]

 Oden hardy came out of nowhere and was on the national scene for 3 years before his pick. Thabeet was just a bad pick, but teams had 3 years to watch him at UCONN. And while we are at it, Embiid certainly isn’t Saer Sene, ok?

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

Jabari is the best all-around scorer of these guys, but I don’t see him being a TWO WAY player like I can see with Embiid, Wiggins, and Smart. 

I can see those three going in the top 3 with Parker at 4 (unless a team has a huge hole at small forward), then guys like Julius Randle (questions about pro level defense), Aaron Gordon, Rodney Hood (shooter with length), and Dante Exum.

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

Jabari is the best all-around scorer of these guys, but I don’t see him being a TWO WAY player like I can see with Embiid, Wiggins, and Smart. 

I can see those three going in the top 3 with Parker at 4 (unless a team has a huge hole at small forward), then guys like Julius Randle (questions about pro level defense), Aaron Gordon, Rodney Hood (shooter with length), and Dante Exum.

 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Glad you posted it, thought it was a bit over dramatic. Of course brings up my favorite word, "Motor", which I tend to believe becomes much less of an issue once guys are playing basketball for a living. Also find it very hard to believe there is "no way" he goes before Parker or Embiid. Definitely believe both have played themselves into possibly going before Wiggins, just thought that was a tad shortsighted, there is still more to see as the season progresses.

Definitely agree with you that Wiggins has done just about as well as I could have expected in his scenario. He has had a few clunkers, has not been as aggressive one might want off of the dribble and sometimes settles at times. However, he is definitely being challenged, especially defensively. Consistently guarding the other teams best player, 1-3 and has done a quite admirable job doing so (though Kendall Williams was a tough night). His potential on that end of the floor seems vast, plus he is showing versatility on the wing that I am sure most teams would love to have.

Jabari looks like a go-to scorer in the making, plus I do feel that the worries regarding his defense are a tad overexaggerated. For as much better as he may be than Wiggins as far as offensive skill set may be concerned, it certainly does not seem like there is not at least a possibility of Wiggins catching up as far as becoming a valuable All-Around player. Jabari has taken his lumps now that he is in conference play, plus I do believe conditioning is still a work in progress with him as well.

Embiid, well, he has looked so much better than I could have imagined seeing him in April. The athleticism and fluidity were there, plus the physical package is obviously impressive. What I worry about is whether his lack of seasoning is as much of an advantage for his future as most people are trying to lead people to believe. I get that he is a clean slate and judging from his early work, he looks very coachable. Just believe that once expectations catch up, he could be getting the same treatment Wiggins is right now.

Embiid’s potential is vast, however I absolutely believe that Wiggins and Parker will be better NBA players for the first few seasons. People seem to think Joel will turn into this dominating center presence, just not sure how he handles guys with his size and athletic ability. He is becoming really hard not to like and while I was expecting him to maybe catch a late season run into KU’s starting line-up, his early season play has been well beyond my expectations. Not to mention that most centers seem to struggle during their first year in college and Embiid seems to be learning around those typical mistakes. He still has a lot to work on, just much less than I believed.

Well, BTPH, glad to see your thoughts on this and sort of wonder what you think of the draft picture at this point in your mind. What are your thoughts on Embiid? My top 6 at this point has Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Exum, Randle and Smart in that order. Beyond that, a few names and a lot of uncertainty. Wondered if you had an opinion as to why you might still have Wiggins on top or your thoughts on Parker and Embiid as prospects. 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Glad you posted it, thought it was a bit over dramatic. Of course brings up my favorite word, "Motor", which I tend to believe becomes much less of an issue once guys are playing basketball for a living. Also find it very hard to believe there is "no way" he goes before Parker or Embiid. Definitely believe both have played themselves into possibly going before Wiggins, just thought that was a tad shortsighted, there is still more to see as the season progresses.

Definitely agree with you that Wiggins has done just about as well as I could have expected in his scenario. He has had a few clunkers, has not been as aggressive one might want off of the dribble and sometimes settles at times. However, he is definitely being challenged, especially defensively. Consistently guarding the other teams best player, 1-3 and has done a quite admirable job doing so (though Kendall Williams was a tough night). His potential on that end of the floor seems vast, plus he is showing versatility on the wing that I am sure most teams would love to have.

Jabari looks like a go-to scorer in the making, plus I do feel that the worries regarding his defense are a tad overexaggerated. For as much better as he may be than Wiggins as far as offensive skill set may be concerned, it certainly does not seem like there is not at least a possibility of Wiggins catching up as far as becoming a valuable All-Around player. Jabari has taken his lumps now that he is in conference play, plus I do believe conditioning is still a work in progress with him as well.

Embiid, well, he has looked so much better than I could have imagined seeing him in April. The athleticism and fluidity were there, plus the physical package is obviously impressive. What I worry about is whether his lack of seasoning is as much of an advantage for his future as most people are trying to lead people to believe. I get that he is a clean slate and judging from his early work, he looks very coachable. Just believe that once expectations catch up, he could be getting the same treatment Wiggins is right now.

Embiid’s potential is vast, however I absolutely believe that Wiggins and Parker will be better NBA players for the first few seasons. People seem to think Joel will turn into this dominating center presence, just not sure how he handles guys with his size and athletic ability. He is becoming really hard not to like and while I was expecting him to maybe catch a late season run into KU’s starting line-up, his early season play has been well beyond my expectations. Not to mention that most centers seem to struggle during their first year in college and Embiid seems to be learning around those typical mistakes. He still has a lot to work on, just much less than I believed.

Well, BTPH, glad to see your thoughts on this and sort of wonder what you think of the draft picture at this point in your mind. What are your thoughts on Embiid? My top 6 at this point has Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Exum, Randle and Smart in that order. Beyond that, a few names and a lot of uncertainty. Wondered if you had an opinion as to why you might still have Wiggins on top or your thoughts on Parker and Embiid as prospects. 

[jwall1Participant]

 Decent article but this guy is making bold predictions. There is still so much to see out of these top prospects, and I also think that positional need will be an influence in this draft. For these prospects, there still is the rest of the season, march madness, and pre draft workouts that will heavily influence their draft stocks. As of right now, I think Wiggins could fall out of the top 3, but not the top 4. I think the top 4 will consist of Parker, Embiid, Smart, and Wiggins. I think alot of people are overlooking Marcus Smart, IMO he will without a doubt be one of the stars in this draft..

 

[jwall1Participant]

 Decent article but this guy is making bold predictions. There is still so much to see out of these top prospects, and I also think that positional need will be an influence in this draft. For these prospects, there still is the rest of the season, march madness, and pre draft workouts that will heavily influence their draft stocks. As of right now, I think Wiggins could fall out of the top 3, but not the top 4. I think the top 4 will consist of Parker, Embiid, Smart, and Wiggins. I think alot of people are overlooking Marcus Smart, IMO he will without a doubt be one of the stars in this draft..

 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

Heisler has covered the league for a million years, so he clearly has guys who are more willing to say certain things than a lot of people. Some of it is probably overly dramatic, but it is a fun read.

Wiggins is having a good year, but I find it fascinating that the bar was set so high that good is viewed in such a rough light. Part of it is the fact that ESPN markets its games with a star emphasis, part of it is the large number of truly awful NBA teams out there, and part of it is the throwing out of the name LeBron. None of those three are his fault. There also is a difficulty in having no continuity within the roster. When things are not coming easily, what do you lean on, both individually and as a team? They are clearly still trying to figure things out, and Wiggins is too. Yes, he has had nights where his shot is not falling and was not able to manufacture or be given some easy ones. I thought there were a couple times that Wiggins seemed on his heels as though he did not think that Cameron Clark would go right at him. It happens. I have no doubt the teams in the lottery will love to land Wiggins, but given how bad the bad teams in the NBA are the expectations for a turnaround should be tempered. The Bucks and Jazz are not just Andrew Wiggins away from respectability, but I would be quick to point out that the same is true of Parker, Smart, Embiid, Randle, et al.

Parker got off to such a perfect start that there would have to be a bump in the road. Even Durant and Melo had some stinkers thrown in. The concern for Duke is that if Parker is not perfect, they are not all that good a team. While the record does not reflect it, I think they might be the biggest disappointment in college basketball. With the returnees they had plus Rodney Hood and Parker, they should be a Top 5 team. I thought that the problem would be them being small, but it runs deeper. I wonder how many of those hostile road games they will be able to pull out. From a draft standpoint, though, I get why a team would feel more comfortable with Parker. He still checks all the boxes for what a team could want out of a wing.

With Embiid, honestly, I have my fingers crossed that should he declare (and Bilas was talking during the Oklahoma game as though Embiid might think about coming back) he lands with Denver, Memphis, and to a lesser degree Los Angeles (some team with an established players and infrastructure that just so happen to be in the lottery) because he is so raw that landing on a truly terrible team could really be problematic for him. The moments where he flashes can make the imagination go wild, but the reality is that he is really skinny, really inexperienced, and really prone to mistakes. It is going to take time, and I have a hard time believing that expectations can be tamped down enough to where very many teams with top five picks could take him and accept the fact that he will not be particularly good for a few years. I have said this before, but Andre Drummond was a different case because for his rawness of skills (and he is still incapable of operating anywhere beyond the rim). He was a plus strength center and a plus athlete from the moment he stepped onto an NBA court. It gave him room to maneuver despite his still obvious limitations. How hard is it going to be for Embiid if Milwaukee takes him over Wiggins? I feel relatively comfortable thinking that whatever bad team lands Wiggins will play him 30+ minutes per night and will get a stat line from him that will lead to some degree of hope even if they still lose 55+ games. I can easily see Embiid playing 15-18 minutes per night because of turnovers, fouls, and simply being overwhelmed next year with some DNP-CDs mixed in. It would be a heavy burden on any young guy, much less one a team cannot afford to have lose his confidence. Getting Embiid to when he is 25 years old and harness his potential has to be accounted for. If a team is dysfunctional, it could be hard getting him to develop and having the willingness to stay the course with him. I think it is a different situation if he goes to Memphis and practices with Marc Gasol every day and all the pressure there is on the veterans. It is a situation more conducive for a guy whose gap between who he is and who he can be is so vast.

I do not really have any developed thought on Exum. I am always hesitant of guys who make their name on all-star or lightly coached games, but it also does not mean all the players who fit that profile fail. It just means it is not a good indicator from which to judge them, and with Exum it is the only indicator that there is. I love the idea of him, but that brings us back to the Canadian LeBron stuff. We cannot see where the reality has him settling in because he is not playing college or pro ball at the moment.

Heisler’s point on Randle is one that has gone through my head, mostly because he looks smaller than many of the bigs on the floor. If a guy looks small on a college floor, then what is he going to look like in the post in the NBA? It is a concern. Also, he reminds me of Terrence Jones for both good and bad. Similar size, lefty, athletic, inconsistent, not great range, clear potential, but also leaves me wondering if he is a building block or just a good guy to have and will have a nice career. For all the bad teams, this is not the year to just come away with a nice player. A lot of GMs will lose their jobs if they only come away with a nice player given how bad they made their teams this year because it means they will be bad again next year.

I like Smart a great deal, and I have little doubt he will go into the NBA and perform right away (health contingent), but the problem as I see it is that most of the bad teams in the NBA are not where they are because their guard play stinks. A lot of them have lousy big men, wings who cannot shoot, selfishness and an inability to get easy points, an organization wide lack of appreciation for defense, bad rebounding, and just simply bad fits. Relative to the guards the teams have in place, how much better are they with Smart? Are we talking about a Parker, Paul, fill in your top notch people caliber guy? I’m not ready to put him in that category. Even with that apprehension, I get Orlando for him. Move Oladipo off the ball, they have a respectable front line but can bolster it in free agency, Afflalo has been great, find a 3 who can shoot, and they can start to move forward.

[FoxdashmanParticipant]

Afflalo has actually played decently when put at the 3-spot this year (unlike last year). So a lineup of Smart, Oladipo, Afflalo, Harris, Vucevic actually looks pretty solid. The interior defense wouldn’t be spectacular, but it would be partially offset by good perimeter defense from Smart/Oladip/Afflalo. Offensively, that’s a pretty solid, multi-dimensional lineup. All of that being said, I would prefer a handful of prospects over Smart. (Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, at least)

 

[FoxdashmanParticipant]

Afflalo has actually played decently when put at the 3-spot this year (unlike last year). So a lineup of Smart, Oladipo, Afflalo, Harris, Vucevic actually looks pretty solid. The interior defense wouldn’t be spectacular, but it would be partially offset by good perimeter defense from Smart/Oladip/Afflalo. Offensively, that’s a pretty solid, multi-dimensional lineup. All of that being said, I would prefer a handful of prospects over Smart. (Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, at least)

 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

Heisler has covered the league for a million years, so he clearly has guys who are more willing to say certain things than a lot of people. Some of it is probably overly dramatic, but it is a fun read.

Wiggins is having a good year, but I find it fascinating that the bar was set so high that good is viewed in such a rough light. Part of it is the fact that ESPN markets its games with a star emphasis, part of it is the large number of truly awful NBA teams out there, and part of it is the throwing out of the name LeBron. None of those three are his fault. There also is a difficulty in having no continuity within the roster. When things are not coming easily, what do you lean on, both individually and as a team? They are clearly still trying to figure things out, and Wiggins is too. Yes, he has had nights where his shot is not falling and was not able to manufacture or be given some easy ones. I thought there were a couple times that Wiggins seemed on his heels as though he did not think that Cameron Clark would go right at him. It happens. I have no doubt the teams in the lottery will love to land Wiggins, but given how bad the bad teams in the NBA are the expectations for a turnaround should be tempered. The Bucks and Jazz are not just Andrew Wiggins away from respectability, but I would be quick to point out that the same is true of Parker, Smart, Embiid, Randle, et al.

Parker got off to such a perfect start that there would have to be a bump in the road. Even Durant and Melo had some stinkers thrown in. The concern for Duke is that if Parker is not perfect, they are not all that good a team. While the record does not reflect it, I think they might be the biggest disappointment in college basketball. With the returnees they had plus Rodney Hood and Parker, they should be a Top 5 team. I thought that the problem would be them being small, but it runs deeper. I wonder how many of those hostile road games they will be able to pull out. From a draft standpoint, though, I get why a team would feel more comfortable with Parker. He still checks all the boxes for what a team could want out of a wing.

With Embiid, honestly, I have my fingers crossed that should he declare (and Bilas was talking during the Oklahoma game as though Embiid might think about coming back) he lands with Denver, Memphis, and to a lesser degree Los Angeles (some team with an established players and infrastructure that just so happen to be in the lottery) because he is so raw that landing on a truly terrible team could really be problematic for him. The moments where he flashes can make the imagination go wild, but the reality is that he is really skinny, really inexperienced, and really prone to mistakes. It is going to take time, and I have a hard time believing that expectations can be tamped down enough to where very many teams with top five picks could take him and accept the fact that he will not be particularly good for a few years. I have said this before, but Andre Drummond was a different case because for his rawness of skills (and he is still incapable of operating anywhere beyond the rim). He was a plus strength center and a plus athlete from the moment he stepped onto an NBA court. It gave him room to maneuver despite his still obvious limitations. How hard is it going to be for Embiid if Milwaukee takes him over Wiggins? I feel relatively comfortable thinking that whatever bad team lands Wiggins will play him 30+ minutes per night and will get a stat line from him that will lead to some degree of hope even if they still lose 55+ games. I can easily see Embiid playing 15-18 minutes per night because of turnovers, fouls, and simply being overwhelmed next year with some DNP-CDs mixed in. It would be a heavy burden on any young guy, much less one a team cannot afford to have lose his confidence. Getting Embiid to when he is 25 years old and harness his potential has to be accounted for. If a team is dysfunctional, it could be hard getting him to develop and having the willingness to stay the course with him. I think it is a different situation if he goes to Memphis and practices with Marc Gasol every day and all the pressure there is on the veterans. It is a situation more conducive for a guy whose gap between who he is and who he can be is so vast.

I do not really have any developed thought on Exum. I am always hesitant of guys who make their name on all-star or lightly coached games, but it also does not mean all the players who fit that profile fail. It just means it is not a good indicator from which to judge them, and with Exum it is the only indicator that there is. I love the idea of him, but that brings us back to the Canadian LeBron stuff. We cannot see where the reality has him settling in because he is not playing college or pro ball at the moment.

Heisler’s point on Randle is one that has gone through my head, mostly because he looks smaller than many of the bigs on the floor. If a guy looks small on a college floor, then what is he going to look like in the post in the NBA? It is a concern. Also, he reminds me of Terrence Jones for both good and bad. Similar size, lefty, athletic, inconsistent, not great range, clear potential, but also leaves me wondering if he is a building block or just a good guy to have and will have a nice career. For all the bad teams, this is not the year to just come away with a nice player. A lot of GMs will lose their jobs if they only come away with a nice player given how bad they made their teams this year because it means they will be bad again next year.

I like Smart a great deal, and I have little doubt he will go into the NBA and perform right away (health contingent), but the problem as I see it is that most of the bad teams in the NBA are not where they are because their guard play stinks. A lot of them have lousy big men, wings who cannot shoot, selfishness and an inability to get easy points, an organization wide lack of appreciation for defense, bad rebounding, and just simply bad fits. Relative to the guards the teams have in place, how much better are they with Smart? Are we talking about a Parker, Paul, fill in your top notch people caliber guy? I’m not ready to put him in that category. Even with that apprehension, I get Orlando for him. Move Oladipo off the ball, they have a respectable front line but can bolster it in free agency, Afflalo has been great, find a 3 who can shoot, and they can start to move forward.

[tytan23Participant]

“Deep as this draft class is, its star quotient is another question. Setting aside comparisons to LeBron James and Durant, who are beyond anyone on the horizon, no one in this class is as highly regarded as No. 1 picks Anthony Davis (2012), Kyrie Irving (2011), John Wall (2010), Blake Griffin (2009) or Derrick Rose (2008).

“If you called the Pelicans, the Cavs or any of those teams and offered this year’s first pick for their guy, they’d fall over laughing,” says a Western Conference personnel guy.”

Of course you wouldn’t trade your franchise (all star/near all star) player (who has not even reached their prime) for a rookie. I think, I could be mistaken, but Irving and Wall would have a hell of a fight to go number 1 this year if it was based purely on what happened in college.

[tytan23Participant]

“Deep as this draft class is, its star quotient is another question. Setting aside comparisons to LeBron James and Durant, who are beyond anyone on the horizon, no one in this class is as highly regarded as No. 1 picks Anthony Davis (2012), Kyrie Irving (2011), John Wall (2010), Blake Griffin (2009) or Derrick Rose (2008).

“If you called the Pelicans, the Cavs or any of those teams and offered this year’s first pick for their guy, they’d fall over laughing,” says a Western Conference personnel guy.”

Of course you wouldn’t trade your franchise (all star/near all star) player (who has not even reached their prime) for a rookie. I think, I could be mistaken, but Irving and Wall would have a hell of a fight to go number 1 this year if it was based purely on what happened in college.

[Mad MaxParticipant]

 I think that scout said that just to possibly get other scout’s to not think highly of Wiggins, in hopes he falls. Teams and scouts tend to do this a lot during workouts in the summer. It’s kinda like the stock market, speak badly about  a stock so you can buy it a low price when in reality it’s going to rise.

[Mad MaxParticipant]

 I think that scout said that just to possibly get other scout’s to not think highly of Wiggins, in hopes he falls. Teams and scouts tend to do this a lot during workouts in the summer. It’s kinda like the stock market, speak badly about  a stock so you can buy it a low price when in reality it’s going to rise.

[LindseyParticipant]

 Watching the medias treatment of Wiggins has made me so jaded on the business of basketball. For them (ESPN,SI, etc etc) to take a kids performance in one tournament (2012 peach jam) and base a whole season of articles on this "Canadian Lebron" narrative that only appeals to non-hoops heads stupid enough to lap it up. And they dont look at Lebron or Kobe when they were 16-18 to gauge their games against these highschool kids, but what they look like NOW. Thats why on every Wiggins (even parker, and randle) vid you see theres always some idiot talking about how James would’ve had 40 against X team. 

So now when Wiggins finds himself in the middle of a very strong season, one that is statisically better than Davis, Irving, Wall and Roses freshmen seasons, he is having a disapointment of a season.

Easily the worst case of building someone up only to knock them down I have ever seen. I miss the days of Scoop Jackson, Lang Whitaker, Russ Bengston being the voice of reason in hoops insead of effing Skip Bayless. 

[LindseyParticipant]

 Watching the medias treatment of Wiggins has made me so jaded on the business of basketball. For them (ESPN,SI, etc etc) to take a kids performance in one tournament (2012 peach jam) and base a whole season of articles on this "Canadian Lebron" narrative that only appeals to non-hoops heads stupid enough to lap it up. And they dont look at Lebron or Kobe when they were 16-18 to gauge their games against these highschool kids, but what they look like NOW. Thats why on every Wiggins (even parker, and randle) vid you see theres always some idiot talking about how James would’ve had 40 against X team. 

So now when Wiggins finds himself in the middle of a very strong season, one that is statisically better than Davis, Irving, Wall and Roses freshmen seasons, he is having a disapointment of a season.

Easily the worst case of building someone up only to knock them down I have ever seen. I miss the days of Scoop Jackson, Lang Whitaker, Russ Bengston being the voice of reason in hoops insead of effing Skip Bayless. 

[drpg913Participant]

 Kyrie wasn’t a unanimous number 1 pickthere were a lot of people thinking that Derrick Williams should go first. But this article is good. not sure when it was written and him saying thatg Parker was dominant in the Kansas game is pretty one sided. TO dominate a game you need to be able to score and stop your man from scoring and in that game Perry Ellis was neck and neck with him.

Lately Wiggins has picked it up and has looked more comfortable in the college game he’s confident in his shot and he’s going to the rim more so to say that no one would take him over Parker or Embiid is kind of ridiculous at this point in the year especially since he’s trending upwards at this point in time

[drpg913Participant]

 Kyrie wasn’t a unanimous number 1 pickthere were a lot of people thinking that Derrick Williams should go first. But this article is good. not sure when it was written and him saying thatg Parker was dominant in the Kansas game is pretty one sided. TO dominate a game you need to be able to score and stop your man from scoring and in that game Perry Ellis was neck and neck with him.

Lately Wiggins has picked it up and has looked more comfortable in the college game he’s confident in his shot and he’s going to the rim more so to say that no one would take him over Parker or Embiid is kind of ridiculous at this point in the year especially since he’s trending upwards at this point in time

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

 @Chrispy…

im talking about coming out of nowhere to people who dont follow high school hoops. of course you and i knew about Oden, but weve also known about Embiib for over a year now too. 

Add Ekpe Udoh, Biyombo, and Meyers Leonard to the list im talking about. Obviously im not comparing these players to Embiib, i think Embiib will be very good. Im just always a little leary when it comes to taking 7 footers soley based on potential. 

I think the worst case senario for a player like Wiggins is 15-5-5 with good defense. The bottom is a lot worse for the big guys i mentioned before. 

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

 @Chrispy…

im talking about coming out of nowhere to people who dont follow high school hoops. of course you and i knew about Oden, but weve also known about Embiib for over a year now too. 

Add Ekpe Udoh, Biyombo, and Meyers Leonard to the list im talking about. Obviously im not comparing these players to Embiib, i think Embiib will be very good. Im just always a little leary when it comes to taking 7 footers soley based on potential. 

I think the worst case senario for a player like Wiggins is 15-5-5 with good defense. The bottom is a lot worse for the big guys i mentioned before. 

[ChrispyParticipant]

We have known about Embiid for over a year. Never heard of this Embiib you keep posting about, though. Is he any good?

[ChrispyParticipant]

We have known about Embiid for over a year. Never heard of this Embiib you keep posting about, though. Is he any good?

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

Let’s see if Wiggins takes it to another level in the tournament.  Right now, his stats are slightly ahead of Jordan’s freshman year numbers, which is basically all we have to go on right now.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

Let’s see if Wiggins takes it to another level in the tournament.  Right now, his stats are slightly ahead of Jordan’s freshman year numbers, which is basically all we have to go on right now.

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

People are getting way ahead of themselves. In Parker’s last 4 games he’s averaged 11.5 PPG, 6.8 RPG while shooting 33% from the field. There are no guarantees at this stage of the college season. There’s still a lot of ball left to be played and Wiggins could certainly overtake him between now and June, I honestly don’t believe he’s that far behind now.

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

People are getting way ahead of themselves. In Parker’s last 4 games he’s averaged 11.5 PPG, 6.8 RPG while shooting 33% from the field. There are no guarantees at this stage of the college season. There’s still a lot of ball left to be played and Wiggins could certainly overtake him between now and June, I honestly don’t believe he’s that far behind now.

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

we can all try to look smart with projections of this player or that player… but the draft isn’t now… theres a reason its in june after the college season ends in april… the only thing that is for sure is probably that wiggins, parker and embiid will be locks for top 3 picks… so many things can change though with regard to where wiggins goes one, two or three.. as with parker and embiid… that’s the beauty with it

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

we can all try to look smart with projections of this player or that player… but the draft isn’t now… theres a reason its in june after the college season ends in april… the only thing that is for sure is probably that wiggins, parker and embiid will be locks for top 3 picks… so many things can change though with regard to where wiggins goes one, two or three.. as with parker and embiid… that’s the beauty with it

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

and I guess that rick pitino was right in that embiid could be a top 2 pick

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

and I guess that rick pitino was right in that embiid could be a top 2 pick

[Snubs15Participant]

 Interesting article, but definitely a little over dramatic. I still see Wiggins as the number 1 pick though … 

He’s got lock down defensive potential and his offense is already above average for a kid his age. 

Jabari is definitely the better offensive player but that’s just 50% of the game. Good defense will lead to better offensive chances in Wiggins favor. 

In my opinion, Wiggins worst case scenario is a more explosive and more athletic version of Thaddeus Young with a much more advanced perimeter game. 

That’s not a bad player at all and would help any team win games. 

[Snubs15Participant]

 Interesting article, but definitely a little over dramatic. I still see Wiggins as the number 1 pick though … 

He’s got lock down defensive potential and his offense is already above average for a kid his age. 

Jabari is definitely the better offensive player but that’s just 50% of the game. Good defense will lead to better offensive chances in Wiggins favor. 

In my opinion, Wiggins worst case scenario is a more explosive and more athletic version of Thaddeus Young with a much more advanced perimeter game. 

That’s not a bad player at all and would help any team win games. 

[tuck243Participant]

Russell Westbrook in College (game wise, not stats wise)… He’s just the 6’8 version… He’s either going to be an all-star or worse, Demarr DeRozan… Which isn’t a far drop… Top 3 for sure, I will be willing to say Embiid is the bigger risk still… Yea he’s improving but he has stupid fouls with stupid turnovers… For every one good move is a bad one… Big Centers are harder to scout on how they translate in the NBA…

I couldn’t imagine being the GM that takes Embiid over Parker, Randle, and Wiggins… If he doesn’t amount to this “superstar” potential that everyone thinks he has… Ouch… I think Embiid has to continue to be consistent (and stay on the floor) in order for him to be worth that risk… March Madness will help both Wiggins and Embiid out the most because their draft position are based so much on potential….

[tuck243Participant]

Russell Westbrook in College (game wise, not stats wise)… He’s just the 6’8 version… He’s either going to be an all-star or worse, Demarr DeRozan… Which isn’t a far drop… Top 3 for sure, I will be willing to say Embiid is the bigger risk still… Yea he’s improving but he has stupid fouls with stupid turnovers… For every one good move is a bad one… Big Centers are harder to scout on how they translate in the NBA…

I couldn’t imagine being the GM that takes Embiid over Parker, Randle, and Wiggins… If he doesn’t amount to this “superstar” potential that everyone thinks he has… Ouch… I think Embiid has to continue to be consistent (and stay on the floor) in order for him to be worth that risk… March Madness will help both Wiggins and Embiid out the most because their draft position are based so much on potential….

[Ghost01Participant]

 The article may be over dramatic, but there are actual people around the league who believe these things.

So for all of you coming on here "I still have Wiggins going number 1", well, your opinion means nothing.

And a lot of you also missed the point about why Wiggins isn’t going No.1 in NBA front offices right now…

They don’t care that much about high school. If we knew nothing about these guys going into college, Parker and Embiid would clearly be ahead of Wiggins.

Wiggins basically gets hot and takes initiative for 5 minutes every game, but does a ton of drifting. He doesn’t assert himself, and Heisler brought up many true points about his off the dribble skills.

Embiid may be a risk, but his size and the way he moves down the court make him a super duper intriguing prospect.

Parker is going through a cold stretch, but that isn’t because he is shying away or disappearing. Shots simply aren’t falling. His shot selection has been worse and he’s had to work harder lately, but still, a lot of shots he normally hits haven’t been going in lately.

I think Embiid and Parker are the top 2 right now, and Wiggins is probably 3rd. But the column is 99% true, with just a tad bit of overreacting.

Just please stop acting like you know more than someone who actually talks to people around the league. It is fine to have your own opinion, but "That’s ridiculous! I have Wiggins No.1!!" is such a waste of typing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ghost01Participant]

 The article may be over dramatic, but there are actual people around the league who believe these things.

So for all of you coming on here "I still have Wiggins going number 1", well, your opinion means nothing.

And a lot of you also missed the point about why Wiggins isn’t going No.1 in NBA front offices right now…

They don’t care that much about high school. If we knew nothing about these guys going into college, Parker and Embiid would clearly be ahead of Wiggins.

Wiggins basically gets hot and takes initiative for 5 minutes every game, but does a ton of drifting. He doesn’t assert himself, and Heisler brought up many true points about his off the dribble skills.

Embiid may be a risk, but his size and the way he moves down the court make him a super duper intriguing prospect.

Parker is going through a cold stretch, but that isn’t because he is shying away or disappearing. Shots simply aren’t falling. His shot selection has been worse and he’s had to work harder lately, but still, a lot of shots he normally hits haven’t been going in lately.

I think Embiid and Parker are the top 2 right now, and Wiggins is probably 3rd. But the column is 99% true, with just a tad bit of overreacting.

Just please stop acting like you know more than someone who actually talks to people around the league. It is fine to have your own opinion, but "That’s ridiculous! I have Wiggins No.1!!" is such a waste of typing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[machu46Participant]

My guess is that some of the quotes used in the article aren’t completely up to date.  Things change every day in college basketball.  A week ago, Jabari was on top of the world and Wiggins was underwhelming.  Now, Jabari’s hit a rut and in some cases, is being benched at the ends of games due to his awful defense, and Wiggins has stepped up and put together some of his best performances of the year so far.

It wouldn’t surprise me if either the quotes are a few days old, or the NBA personnel haven’t gotten to see the past few games for some of these guys.

Otherwise, I don’t see any way that someone high up in the NBA could honestly believe there’s a 0% chance of Wiggins going ahead of Jabari.

Regardless, it’s an interesting article.

 

 

 

[machu46Participant]

My guess is that some of the quotes used in the article aren’t completely up to date.  Things change every day in college basketball.  A week ago, Jabari was on top of the world and Wiggins was underwhelming.  Now, Jabari’s hit a rut and in some cases, is being benched at the ends of games due to his awful defense, and Wiggins has stepped up and put together some of his best performances of the year so far.

It wouldn’t surprise me if either the quotes are a few days old, or the NBA personnel haven’t gotten to see the past few games for some of these guys.

Otherwise, I don’t see any way that someone high up in the NBA could honestly believe there’s a 0% chance of Wiggins going ahead of Jabari.

Regardless, it’s an interesting article.

 

 

 

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