Add one more to the list of people who need to have their thoughts taken away. David Thorpe

This topic contains 31 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by B-ball fan 15 years, 5 months ago.

Author
Posts
Posted on: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 12:23pm #25549

BothTeamsPlayedHard
Participant
Some classics from ESPN’s David Thorpe:
“I watched Monroe jog around the court in Miami on Friday night, using his size and talent to make plays but offering no evidence he cared whether they won or lost. I saw no emotion and no special effort and tweeted those comments.”
“Monroe is very capable, without doubt. Pistons wise to draft him. But in terms of spirit, he’s the antithesis of Joakim Noah.”
7-11 since Monroe has become a starter/30 minute guy
11-22 when Monroe was a bit player
Joakim Noah plays with incredible passion, but just as I predicted the Bulls weren’t going to miss him because Derrick Rose makes that team.
16-8 with Noah.
17-6 without Noah.
No difference. Maybe it has to do with the fact that for as hard as Noah plays, he is still someone defenses want to see touch the ball. They don’t have to guard him, which is why the Bulls have been fine playing a less athletic and active big man. Last year with Brad Miller and this year with Kurt Thomas, the Bulls have been just as good if not better. Opposing teams have to guard Greg Monroe because he can drive, shoot, and create. I tend to think someone who views himself as basketball coach despite not having a team would value basketball skills over emotions. You find me a “coach” who thinks body language matters more than work ethic and results, I’ll show you a bad one. It amazes me how people who have played the game and been affiliated with the game for so long don’t know what to look for, what matters, or even make sense of what is in front of them.
It is just like when the ESPN clowns played the results of a shooting slump by Harrison Barnes into thinking he was somehow less able to perform. Funny how now that he is eighth in the ACC play in scoring, and sixth in field goal percentage those articles have stopped coming out. It amazes me how someone “without a killer instinct,” someone “prone to take bad shots,” and “not able to create for himself” can suddenly be the engine behind a team that has rattled off 12 wins in 15 games. Because apparently, they have never seen a true freshman in college struggle in his first month. The same for when they never saw an NBA rookie struggle early on. Hey, I still am in amazement that people are stunned that the Lakers of all teams could ever treat a game in January like it is a game in January, but that is just me.
0
Posted on: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 12:33pm #483393

DanEboy
Participant
I am not sure what you are trying to say but if you are implying that the Bulls don’t need Noah, just go back and watch his work down the stretch in April last season and the playoffs. I realize they got stomped by the Cavs but he was outstanding.
They might not be missing him much right now but there is no way they can go deep in the playoffs without him.
0
Posted on: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 12:42pm #483396

BothTeamsPlayedHard
Participant
Teams need big bodies and that is why the Bulls need Noah. He is a million times better than Omer Asik, but his emotion does not counter act his lack of offensive skills or lack of bulk. Any coach or scout worth his salt would rather have someone with skills to someone who wears his emotions on his sleeves. The emotion doesn’t matter.
0
Posted on: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 1:24pm #483413

DanEboy
Participant
Well, they don’t need him to be a scoring option but the guy was averaging 14 points while having zero plays run for him. He has more offensive abilities than a lot of people give him credit for. He may not have a jumper but he has a knack for putting it in the hole. (Insert joke here)
And he reportedly added 10lbs of muscle during his rehab so he should be more bulked up.
I don’t know, you say people are overrrating him, I say his intagibles are off the charts and fit into a championship team.
0
Posted on: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 1:31pm #483416

K.LOVE THE ALLSTAR
Everyone knows the Bulls will need Noah come playoff time.
0
Posted on: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 1:33pm #483421

butidonthavemoney
"Joakim Noah plays with incredible passion, but just as I predicted the Bulls weren’t going to miss him because Derrick Rose makes that team.
16-8 with Noah.
17-6 without Noah."
With/without Boozer? Does that factor into this?
0
Posted on: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 1:39pm #483425

K.LOVE THE ALLSTAR
Exactly….the reason they kept winning is because they added boozer. take away boozer and Noah gets hurt and the Bulls aren’t 17-6:)
0
Posted on: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 1:39pm #483426

mikeyvthedon
Participant
Remember, Joakim Noah went and worked out with those guys. They use him as a comparison to everyone and they loved his work ethic and attitude. Nonetheless, totally agree with what BTPH said. It is not always about wearing your emotions on your sleeve and showing your intensity outwardly. Just because a player does not show his emotion does not mean he does not have a killer instinct or intensity. It is just their attitude and the way they react to things, has little to do with them trying or not. While I see what you are saying DanEboy, and do agree that Noah is an extremely valuable piece for the Bulls, BTPH is just kind of saying that Thorpe might want remove Noah’s man hood from his hand for just a second and see that Greg Monroe has been helping his team even without Noah’s "intensity". It just seems like Thorpe is quicker to judge a players emotions rather than noticing their ability. Not to mention, he seems to loving slurping on guys he has worked with.
0
Posted on: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 1:44pm #483430

DanEboy
Participant
In the 25 games since Noah went down, the Bulls have played 5 teams with a winning record. The 16-8 record with Noah, and without Boozer, incuded their annual 7 game western road trip in which they went 4-3-their best record since MJ retired.
Dig deeper than just the overall record.
0
Posted on: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 1:46pm #483431

K.LOVE THE ALLSTAR
Doesn’t every one the Trainers do that
I remember a trainer hyping up Deandre Jordan this past summer about how much better he has gotten and Jordan doesn’t look much different this year. He gets 10 more minutes but his numbers only raised a tad across the board and the clippers still suck.
Just like that guy you take what they say with a grain of salt because they love hyping up guys
0
Posted on: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 3:17pm #483477

Tongue-Out-Like-23
Participant
Everyone knows the Bulls will need Noah come playoff time.
Exactly….the reason they kept winning is because they added boozer. take away boozer and Noah gets hurt and the Bulls aren’t 17-6:)

Wow… I… Actually agree with Quincey..

Plus, you can’t say emotion isn’t very important.. Garnett is a shell of his former self and you know what keeps his defensive mindset top notch and his team’s intensity up? The fact that he is almost medically insane. Kevin Garnett is crazy in a good way and it helps his team because he pumps them up. Don’t come around here and tell me crap like
"but his emotion does not counter act his lack of offensive skills or lack of bulk."
That statement is ridiculous.. He averages 14ppg and you know what they are? They are simply hustle plays. Loose balls, offensive rebounds, fast break points, broken play baskets.. That’s where he gets his point from. Hustle and emotion is how Noah scores and plays.
0
Posted on: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 7:02pm #483577

DanEboy
Participant
When did Quincey respond to this thread?
0
Posted on: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 9:56pm #483677

kacey
Participant
I’m assuming…

K.LOVE THE ALLSTAR = Quincey Hodges
0
Posted on: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 9:56pm #483680

kacey
Participant
I’m assuming…

K.LOVE THE ALLSTAR = Quincey Hodges
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 3:17am #483715

DanEboy
Participant
Oh yeah. Quincey, quit changing your name man. Who you hiding from?
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 3:17am #483718

DanEboy
Participant
Oh yeah. Quincey, quit changing your name man. Who you hiding from?
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 6:13am #483731

BothTeamsPlayedHard
Participant
It gets annoying when people talk about a player being the "heart and soul of his team" and all that imaginary nonsense. Joakim Noah is one of the best unskilled centers in the league, but just like LeBron made Anderson Varejao, Derrick Rose made him. He can be replaced, and has quite well by Brad Miller and Kurt Thomas when he has gone down. It isn’t because he doesn’t try, battle, or hustle, it is because for all that he does still does not counter act the fact that he does not get guarded. The fact that the Bulls have never opened the possibility of dealing Noah for Melo is bothersome because of that. It is the second coming making Deng untouchable in a Kobe trade. There are two years of evidence to say that they can replace Noah and still be good, and in return they get a star. Other than the ones David Stern declares to be stars, teams cannot simply find them. They are hard to come by, and they make an impact. For as much criticism as the Heat get, the Bulls are still looking up at them and need to match them in a playoff series. The Celtics and Lakers were built on stars. The Bulls have one. Derrick Rose might be playing at the second highest level of anyone in the NBA this year, but LeBron is the first and he is 6’8 260 to boot.
The point about Monroe also extends to other young players who get amateur psych tested by fools, because they see what they want to. This is where people fall into stupidity when evaluating players. People want to believe the Heat don’t like one another, but there is no evidence to suggest that. The team with supposedly great chemistry, Boston, had Delonte West and Von Wafer get into a fight. Josh Smith got tagged with the bad guy/doesn’t get it label coming out of high school, but that is because his scowl is drastically different from Kevin Garnett’s scowl. KG has the "winning scowl" apparently. A lot of people wrote the obit for Evan Turner when he got a DNP-CD, and they were questioning the mental toughness of 22 year old in the first few months of his new job. That is now a distant memory that he has settled into the role he will have this year for a team possibly/likely to sneak into the weak bottom of the Eastern playoffs.
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 6:13am #483734

BothTeamsPlayedHard
Participant
It gets annoying when people talk about a player being the "heart and soul of his team" and all that imaginary nonsense. Joakim Noah is one of the best unskilled centers in the league, but just like LeBron made Anderson Varejao, Derrick Rose made him. He can be replaced, and has quite well by Brad Miller and Kurt Thomas when he has gone down. It isn’t because he doesn’t try, battle, or hustle, it is because for all that he does still does not counter act the fact that he does not get guarded. The fact that the Bulls have never opened the possibility of dealing Noah for Melo is bothersome because of that. It is the second coming making Deng untouchable in a Kobe trade. There are two years of evidence to say that they can replace Noah and still be good, and in return they get a star. Other than the ones David Stern declares to be stars, teams cannot simply find them. They are hard to come by, and they make an impact. For as much criticism as the Heat get, the Bulls are still looking up at them and need to match them in a playoff series. The Celtics and Lakers were built on stars. The Bulls have one. Derrick Rose might be playing at the second highest level of anyone in the NBA this year, but LeBron is the first and he is 6’8 260 to boot.
The point about Monroe also extends to other young players who get amateur psych tested by fools, because they see what they want to. This is where people fall into stupidity when evaluating players. People want to believe the Heat don’t like one another, but there is no evidence to suggest that. The team with supposedly great chemistry, Boston, had Delonte West and Von Wafer get into a fight. Josh Smith got tagged with the bad guy/doesn’t get it label coming out of high school, but that is because his scowl is drastically different from Kevin Garnett’s scowl. KG has the "winning scowl" apparently. A lot of people wrote the obit for Evan Turner when he got a DNP-CD, and they were questioning the mental toughness of 22 year old in the first few months of his new job. That is now a distant memory that he has settled into the role he will have this year for a team possibly/likely to sneak into the weak bottom of the Eastern playoffs.
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 7:12am #483763

Ghost01
Participant
I think the Bulls shouldnt trade Noah because of his size, and because i dont want our crunchtime big man to be Carlos Boozer, i want him at the 4 where he can focus on offense. However, Passion is overrated. I get hustle, hustle is different. Dennis Rodman won games with hustle, but not emotion. Monroe’s recent play should not be frowned upon because he isnt showing emotion.
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 7:12am #483766

Ghost01
Participant
I think the Bulls shouldnt trade Noah because of his size, and because i dont want our crunchtime big man to be Carlos Boozer, i want him at the 4 where he can focus on offense. However, Passion is overrated. I get hustle, hustle is different. Dennis Rodman won games with hustle, but not emotion. Monroe’s recent play should not be frowned upon because he isnt showing emotion.
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 8:14am #483799

BothTeamsPlayedHard
Participant
Lest I forget with the amateur psych stuff, all the swarms of analysts who went after Harrison Barnes and made big picture (NBA) assessments on his mental toughness, athleticism, and decision making for having the gall to go through a shooting slump. Go back and read all the analysis of what was wrong about him and then think about the fact that he is now seventh in ACC play in scoring and sixth in field goal percentage, and dropping 40 percent from three.
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 8:14am #483802

BothTeamsPlayedHard
Participant
Lest I forget with the amateur psych stuff, all the swarms of analysts who went after Harrison Barnes and made big picture (NBA) assessments on his mental toughness, athleticism, and decision making for having the gall to go through a shooting slump. Go back and read all the analysis of what was wrong about him and then think about the fact that he is now seventh in ACC play in scoring and sixth in field goal percentage, and dropping 40 percent from three.
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 9:38am #483894

DanEboy
Participant
BTPH..I am not buying anything you are selling about Noah being good because of Rose.There is no way that you watch a lot of Bulls games to make the comments you are making.
Is he great? No. Can he create for himself? No. But he is just like Rodman in the sense that he brings an ultimate motor, energy and gets on the nerves of opposing players which can throw off their game just enough. And, like Rose, he seems to be getting better with every game he plays. He has been a winner on every level and while he may not be the leader as far as being the best player on the court, ask his teammates how valuable he is. Don’t underestimate team chemistry.
And will everyone stop with the Melo trade already. He has made it publicly clear that he is going to NY next year. Why gut your team for one season of Melo? The Bulls will be back to square one and this last decade has sucked for us fans.
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 9:38am #483895

DanEboy
Participant
BTPH..I am not buying anything you are selling about Noah being good because of Rose.There is no way that you watch a lot of Bulls games to make the comments you are making.
Is he great? No. Can he create for himself? No. But he is just like Rodman in the sense that he brings an ultimate motor, energy and gets on the nerves of opposing players which can throw off their game just enough. And, like Rose, he seems to be getting better with every game he plays. He has been a winner on every level and while he may not be the leader as far as being the best player on the court, ask his teammates how valuable he is. Don’t underestimate team chemistry.
And will everyone stop with the Melo trade already. He has made it publicly clear that he is going to NY next year. Why gut your team for one season of Melo? The Bulls will be back to square one and this last decade has sucked for us fans.
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 9:48am #483911

K.LOVE THE ALLSTAR
Noah is a very good player who has gotten better every year. He’s not a star but he has Allstar potential and is a very good rebounder and defender
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 9:48am #483914

K.LOVE THE ALLSTAR
Noah is a very good player who has gotten better every year. He’s not a star but he has Allstar potential and is a very good rebounder and defender
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 9:55am #483927

DanEboy
Participant
Quincey and I are on the same page…..maybe I am wrong here.
Just kidding, love ya brah. xoxoxoxox
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 9:55am #483930

DanEboy
Participant
Quincey and I are on the same page…..maybe I am wrong here.
Just kidding, love ya brah. xoxoxoxox
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 10:04am #483945

billyk
Participant
Noah is one of the best defensive centers in the league, he plays the pick and roll as good as any big in the league… He gives the Bulls what ever team needs to win a championship, a solid big that can rebound and play defense…. On offense Noah runs the floor extremely well, grabs his share of offensive rebounder, is a great passer, and is a very capable finisher ( I also think he will develop a respectable mid range game)
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 10:04am #483948

billyk
Participant
Noah is one of the best defensive centers in the league, he plays the pick and roll as good as any big in the league… He gives the Bulls what ever team needs to win a championship, a solid big that can rebound and play defense…. On offense Noah runs the floor extremely well, grabs his share of offensive rebounder, is a great passer, and is a very capable finisher ( I also think he will develop a respectable mid range game)
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 10:05am #483951

B-ball fan
Participant
He is very underrated offensively. He has shot well from mid range this year when healthy. His shot may not look pretty, but I read that he was shooting 58% from mid range a few weeks before he got hurt. That is fluky, but still shouldn’t be written off. Also, he has a solid running hook and he moves well off the ball. However, he is overrated defensively, as he is a very poor post defender. It is still ignorant to say that the Bulls don’t need Noah or aren’t a better team with Noah.
0
Posted on: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 10:05am #483954

B-ball fan
Participant
He is very underrated offensively. He has shot well from mid range this year when healthy. His shot may not look pretty, but I read that he was shooting 58% from mid range a few weeks before he got hurt. That is fluky, but still shouldn’t be written off. Also, he has a solid running hook and he moves well off the ball. However, he is overrated defensively, as he is a very poor post defender. It is still ignorant to say that the Bulls don’t need Noah or aren’t a better team with Noah.
0
Author
Posts

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.