[christebasParticipant]

This is totally insane. Here’s a link detailing the Sixer’s and Hinkie’s desire to deal MCW before and up through the draft. Read it for yourself — I can make NO sense of the Sixers dealing not just the ROY, but getting rid of a 6’6" PG who does everything and has all-star potential as he improves his shooting.

http://www.lakersnation.com/76ers-tried-hard-to-trade-michael-carter-williams-during-the-draft/2014/10/14/

 

At this point, Hinkie’s playing with fire as the NBA and in particular Adam Silver is keen on changing the entire draft lottery, in particular, how the odds are stacked as a direct result to how Hinkie’s so blantantly abused and manipulated the system for his benefit (or not). The jury is still out on Embid’s and Noel’s long term health and development, as well, what kind of player Saric will be in the NBA. We’ve all heard a laundry list of Euros who were supposed to be great but flopped.

 

The NBA is planning on a review of the draft lottery before the season and all kinds of ideas are out there. For example, one idea (I think from Mark Cuban) is giving the non-playoff team with the most wins the first pick and so on down the line. In addition, there is strong consideration to get rid of the old system all together by simply changing the odds from pick 14 all the way through to pick 1 making 1-14 much more equal in its chance to get a top pick.

 

There’s a strong possibity the 5-10 win 2014-15 Sixers might not even be in the top 5 picks, possibily falling out of the top 10. It all depends on the how Adam Silver and the owners (with the union’s approval) decide to change the system. From everything out there, it seems like the 2015 draft lottery will be very different than it’s predecessors thanks to Sam Hinkie.

 

Just as an aside, can anyone think of a sucessful team who tanked the draft lottery 3 years in a row where this strategy actually worked? For the life of me I can’t think of 1 team since the lottery was changed to its current format who had previously done this where the results acutally paid off. The baby bulls with Chandler (who was traded for Brand) and Curry come to mind, but outside of them I can’t think of 1 team that sucessfully rebuilt by tanking 2-3 years in a row.

 

As a counterpoint to what Hinkie’s doing, look at how the Utah Jazz rebuilt. They did everything in their power to field a competetive team while drafting brilliantly selecting such players as Gordon Hayward, Alec Burks, Enes Kanter, Trey Burke, Dante Exum, Rodney Hood and dealing for Favors. Think about how in just a few short years, the Jazz without tanking, have become one of the most exciting young teams in the NBA. Too bad for Sixer fans Hinkie didn’t notice.

[lalailaParticipant]

yeah it’s getting too far maybe.. but getting Noel (arguably the best prospect before injury  in 2013class – potential allstar) and Embiid (arguably the best prospect in 2014 before injury – potential superstar) don’t look that bad of a job if only they both would have a healthy careers.

[lalailaParticipant]

yeah it’s getting too far maybe.. but getting Noel (arguably the best prospect before injury  in 2013class – potential allstar) and Embiid (arguably the best prospect in 2014 before injury – potential superstar) don’t look that bad of a job if only they both would have a healthy careers.

[Swim34061Participant]

2007 (31 wins) – #2 Durant

2008 (20 wins) – #4 Westbrook

2009 (23 wins) – #3 Harden

Have won nearly 70% of regular season games since.  Calling that one a win.

[Swim34061Participant]

2007 (31 wins) – #2 Durant

2008 (20 wins) – #4 Westbrook

2009 (23 wins) – #3 Harden

Have won nearly 70% of regular season games since.  Calling that one a win.

[r377Participant]

Philly are the biggest whores going. They had Iggy but traded him to let Evan turner develop. They then let go of Turner. Holiday makes the all-star team and they reward him by trading him. They traded away Vucevic.

Now MCW exceeds expectations and wins ROY. They try and trade him.

I would personally hate to play or be drafted by Philly. You get a handshake in one hand and a knife in the back in the other….

I am not a huge MCW fan but I feel for him….

[r377Participant]

Philly are the biggest whores going. They had Iggy but traded him to let Evan turner develop. They then let go of Turner. Holiday makes the all-star team and they reward him by trading him. They traded away Vucevic.

Now MCW exceeds expectations and wins ROY. They try and trade him.

I would personally hate to play or be drafted by Philly. You get a handshake in one hand and a knife in the back in the other….

I am not a huge MCW fan but I feel for him….

[RooneyParticipant]

 So being the 8th/9th seed was great every year? We traded for Bynum because we needed a better center and we drafted turner for him not to sit the bench.  MCW is 23 and he won ROY. We could get someone better than him in Mudiay. We traded Turner on his last year of the deal and halfway through the season and got 2nd round picks. He did not live up to expectaions also.

[RooneyParticipant]

 So being the 8th/9th seed was great every year? We traded for Bynum because we needed a better center and we drafted turner for him not to sit the bench.  MCW is 23 and he won ROY. We could get someone better than him in Mudiay. We traded Turner on his last year of the deal and halfway through the season and got 2nd round picks. He did not live up to expectaions also.

[r377Participant]

They made it to the Semi’s in 2012.  They were only a piece or two away.

It is funny, they are quick to get rid of their players but they love taking risks on players with injury history.  They got Bynum, Brand and J-rich

[r377Participant]

They made it to the Semi’s in 2012.  They were only a piece or two away.

It is funny, they are quick to get rid of their players but they love taking risks on players with injury history.  They got Bynum, Brand and J-rich

[benny15Participant]

they made it to the semis cause of derek rose’s first acl. does anyone really think they would have upset the bulls either way? they lost the following series. its not like they won multiple serieses in that play-off run. they then followed up that good season by gambling on Andrew Bynum who a lot of people thought was the second best center in the league behind Dwight Howard. doesnt that count as adding a piece away?

its funny that youre saying things in hindsight as if their past moves were illogical at the time. if bynum was healthy and worked out well, he could have been the new face of the franchies since he grew up not that far from philly. he could have been a number 1 option on the post and just be 25 years old. it was perceived that he would grew and mature with other top young talents around his age in Evan Turner(24) and Thadeus Young(24) as well as Jrue Holiday(22). it was perceived that that young core would give them a strong core in the post, wings and guard positions and that they would be able to enter their prime years together and be very formidable. J-Rich would serve as veteran scorer to help bring this young group of players along.

however, bynum turned out to be a total bust being injured and evan turner did not live up to his 2nd over-all pick potential. and jason richardson missed more than half of their games, and on the ones he played, had the worst scoring season of his career. jrue holiday had a break-out season and young built on his past success into a decent season. the end result though, a 51 loss season. 

jrue was still promising being 23 and all-star already at this point, but it was clear to them that turner would not be a top 3 option on a contending team and thad, as good as he is, would be more as 6th man of the year player on a contender rather than someone who can hold his own on both ends and be an all-star. j-rich hadnt been healthy since and andrew bynum was let go in free agency after not being able to log a single game for philly and have had several findings of having degenerative knees. 

at this point, they had 1 all-star in Jrue, and the top remaining players on the team were Thad, Hawes and Turner. they hired a new GM to run things and first thing he did was assess that the current core of the team would not reach contender status. so he blew it up. however, the only piece other teams were willing to pay equal or fair value for was Jrue Holiday, big surprise right? 

so he dealt him to acquire arguably the best prospect of the draft in Nerlens Noel as well as another 1st round pick of a non-play-off team playing in the loaded Western Conference. they followed that up by taking a replacement point guard in MCW. they then played the season out, sucked but would they have really been better with Jrue over MCW with the same teamates? Evan Turner got his touches, but up some numbers, but dint really show being a top talent or go to scorer in any other team in the league. thad put up good numbers again, but dint really translate to wins. Hawes did the same, numbers but not w’s.

after all that, being put in the same position, would you really prefer the core of Bynum, Jrue, Evan and Thad over having Joel, Noel, Dario and MCW? honestly, after that dissastrous 2013 season, it should have been a far gone conclussion that breaking that team apart would only be a matter of time. they fast tracked it, yes. they are really bad now, yes. but they are able to acquire top young talents to form a new core and can be very good for multiple years at the price of 2 seasons.

 like someone mentioned earlier, the thunder had 1 bad season, sacrificed the next two, but are now perenial title contenders. hinkie saw that formula work, is it so bad for him to reproduce it?

[benny15Participant]

they made it to the semis cause of derek rose’s first acl. does anyone really think they would have upset the bulls either way? they lost the following series. its not like they won multiple serieses in that play-off run. they then followed up that good season by gambling on Andrew Bynum who a lot of people thought was the second best center in the league behind Dwight Howard. doesnt that count as adding a piece away?

its funny that youre saying things in hindsight as if their past moves were illogical at the time. if bynum was healthy and worked out well, he could have been the new face of the franchies since he grew up not that far from philly. he could have been a number 1 option on the post and just be 25 years old. it was perceived that he would grew and mature with other top young talents around his age in Evan Turner(24) and Thadeus Young(24) as well as Jrue Holiday(22). it was perceived that that young core would give them a strong core in the post, wings and guard positions and that they would be able to enter their prime years together and be very formidable. J-Rich would serve as veteran scorer to help bring this young group of players along.

however, bynum turned out to be a total bust being injured and evan turner did not live up to his 2nd over-all pick potential. and jason richardson missed more than half of their games, and on the ones he played, had the worst scoring season of his career. jrue holiday had a break-out season and young built on his past success into a decent season. the end result though, a 51 loss season. 

jrue was still promising being 23 and all-star already at this point, but it was clear to them that turner would not be a top 3 option on a contending team and thad, as good as he is, would be more as 6th man of the year player on a contender rather than someone who can hold his own on both ends and be an all-star. j-rich hadnt been healthy since and andrew bynum was let go in free agency after not being able to log a single game for philly and have had several findings of having degenerative knees. 

at this point, they had 1 all-star in Jrue, and the top remaining players on the team were Thad, Hawes and Turner. they hired a new GM to run things and first thing he did was assess that the current core of the team would not reach contender status. so he blew it up. however, the only piece other teams were willing to pay equal or fair value for was Jrue Holiday, big surprise right? 

so he dealt him to acquire arguably the best prospect of the draft in Nerlens Noel as well as another 1st round pick of a non-play-off team playing in the loaded Western Conference. they followed that up by taking a replacement point guard in MCW. they then played the season out, sucked but would they have really been better with Jrue over MCW with the same teamates? Evan Turner got his touches, but up some numbers, but dint really show being a top talent or go to scorer in any other team in the league. thad put up good numbers again, but dint really translate to wins. Hawes did the same, numbers but not w’s.

after all that, being put in the same position, would you really prefer the core of Bynum, Jrue, Evan and Thad over having Joel, Noel, Dario and MCW? honestly, after that dissastrous 2013 season, it should have been a far gone conclussion that breaking that team apart would only be a matter of time. they fast tracked it, yes. they are really bad now, yes. but they are able to acquire top young talents to form a new core and can be very good for multiple years at the price of 2 seasons.

 like someone mentioned earlier, the thunder had 1 bad season, sacrificed the next two, but are now perenial title contenders. hinkie saw that formula work, is it so bad for him to reproduce it?

[RooneyParticipant]

 They made it to the Semis because D-Rose got hurt and so did Noah. They had no chance of being a championship team. Bynum wasnt going to resign and having Hawes as starting Center isnt a championship team. If Bynum was healthy they would be 6th seed in the East at best.

[RooneyParticipant]

 They made it to the Semis because D-Rose got hurt and so did Noah. They had no chance of being a championship team. Bynum wasnt going to resign and having Hawes as starting Center isnt a championship team. If Bynum was healthy they would be 6th seed in the East at best.

[raptors17Participant]

the sixers last year were terrible and mcw had the ideal situation where he had no expectations to be the saviour but at the same time had all the opertunities too make mistakes and play through bad shooting games. 

not to take too much away from mcw and as good his rookie year was, the point gaurd position today is probably deeper and easier to replace than the other 4 positions. its a fair question to ask if hes even a top 15 pg.. would you as gm take him over curry, paul, westbrook, wall, lillard, lowry, irving, dragic, conley, bledsoe, walker, rose, holiday, teague, d-will, rondo, or tony parker? 

no pgs have carried their team to the promise land (some can argue parker in 07 but lets not forget about duncan being the greatest pf in history). im not sure who philly was targeting to get in exchange for mcw but if its for an eilite wing or big how can you argue trying to bring you team closer to a championship in the long run?

  

 

 

 

 

[raptors17Participant]

the sixers last year were terrible and mcw had the ideal situation where he had no expectations to be the saviour but at the same time had all the opertunities too make mistakes and play through bad shooting games. 

not to take too much away from mcw and as good his rookie year was, the point gaurd position today is probably deeper and easier to replace than the other 4 positions. its a fair question to ask if hes even a top 15 pg.. would you as gm take him over curry, paul, westbrook, wall, lillard, lowry, irving, dragic, conley, bledsoe, walker, rose, holiday, teague, d-will, rondo, or tony parker? 

no pgs have carried their team to the promise land (some can argue parker in 07 but lets not forget about duncan being the greatest pf in history). im not sure who philly was targeting to get in exchange for mcw but if its for an eilite wing or big how can you argue trying to bring you team closer to a championship in the long run?

  

 

 

 

 

[chall23Participant]

Say what you want about his "padded stats" to a degree I think they may have been a little high. But he still averaged good assist numbers with below average teammates. With better playmakers he will be able to take better shots so his FG% will improve. The thing I really like about him is his length and lateral quickness for being 6’6. He’s a walking mismatch and I live in the Philly area so I watched a good amount of games. He used his size and length to his advantage very frequently and that is what I was impressed the most with. 

[chall23Participant]

Say what you want about his "padded stats" to a degree I think they may have been a little high. But he still averaged good assist numbers with below average teammates. With better playmakers he will be able to take better shots so his FG% will improve. The thing I really like about him is his length and lateral quickness for being 6’6. He’s a walking mismatch and I live in the Philly area so I watched a good amount of games. He used his size and length to his advantage very frequently and that is what I was impressed the most with. 

[machu46Participant]

Agreed.  I don’t think he’ll be a top 5 PG or anything, but I do think he can become a top 10-15 PG when it’s all said and done.  He seemed to finally start to figure things out in the last month of the season too.  Started taking smarter shots, fewer 3’s, cut his turnovers in half.

He’s still growing into his body too.  He was 5’9" just 4 or 5 years ago and then had to relearn the PG position his sophomore year at Syracuse.  It isn’t easy to do that while also still getting used to your new body.  I think he has plenty of room to grow despite being a year older than the average sophomore.

 

[machu46Participant]

Agreed.  I don’t think he’ll be a top 5 PG or anything, but I do think he can become a top 10-15 PG when it’s all said and done.  He seemed to finally start to figure things out in the last month of the season too.  Started taking smarter shots, fewer 3’s, cut his turnovers in half.

He’s still growing into his body too.  He was 5’9" just 4 or 5 years ago and then had to relearn the PG position his sophomore year at Syracuse.  It isn’t easy to do that while also still getting used to your new body.  I think he has plenty of room to grow despite being a year older than the average sophomore.

 

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