2015 3 and D Bigs - NBADraft.net

This topic contains 34 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by treytalkssports.com 11 years, 2 months ago.

Author
Posts
Posted on: Tue, 05/05/2015 - 6:35pm #59787
treytalkssports.com
Participant
Last year, I posted about a new player position I called 3 and D bigs. This is a list of this year’s 3 and D bigs.
I define a 3 and D big as someone who can shoot the three above 30% and hold opponents to less than 50% at the rim. There are other ways to define this, and this is a fairly limited statistical approach, but I think it is a good indicator to one of the most unique positions in the NBA: a big man who can both shoot the three on offense and defend the rim on defense.
This year saw a growing number of 3 and D bigs. More top-level bigs are on this list and more bigs in general are trending this direction.
- Meyers Leonard 42 3FG%, 42.3 OFG% at the rim
- Matt Bonner 37%, 49%
- Serge Ibaka 38%, 41%
- Pero Antic 30%, 49%
- Donatas Motiejunas 37%, 49%
- Lamarcus Aldridge 35%, 45%
- Josh Smith 32%, 46%
- Shawn Williams 39%, 50%
Aldridge is a new addition to this list. He extended his range to the three point line this year, while also improving his defense at the rim. Meyers Leonard is one of the top young 3 and D prospects in the league. Smith, Motie, and Bonner are all new additions as well.
Serge Ibaka takes the cake as the third best three point shooter on this list and the best rim protector. He is a unique talent that compliments Durant and Westbrook well.
These players technically played more small forward than power forward and center, but are still right there.
- Draymond Green 33%, 47%
- Jerami Grant 31%, 43%
- Quincy Acy 30%, 45%
Grant shows a lot of potential to be a perfect 3 and D forward and Acy is trying to prove he has that kind of ability. Green is the perfect compliment to Curry and Thompson due to his defense and versatility.
These players barely missed the cut by a few percentage points or by a small sample size.
- Patrick Patterson 37%, 50.3%
- Kyle O’Quin 28%, 49%
- Mike Muscala 41%, 43%
- Pau Gasol 46%, 48%
- Aaron Gordon 27%, 48%
- Anthony Tolliver, 36%, 50%
- Jonas Jerebko 37%, 51%
- Chris Anderson 31%, 51%
- Al-Farouq Aminu 27%, 41%
- Andrew Nicholson 32%, 46%
There are a few interesting players on this list, and a few interesting young free agents. Kyle O’Quinn might be a really good starting center in the NBA if he could stay out of foul trouble. Muscala plays the Hawks big man role perfectly. Anderson has continued to extend his three point range this year.
Any players I missed? Any young players that you think could be on this list next year? Any 2015 draftees who could be on this list in the future?
0
Posted on: Tue, 05/05/2015 - 7:17pm #978466

King Calucha
Participant
Quincy Acy isn’t a SF. He plays exclusively inside despite his height.
0
- Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 3:16am #978486
  
  treytalkssports.com
  Participant
  I was in 82games.com looking at his stats. Saw the wrong line. He plays 26% at PF and 4% at SF.
  0
- Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 3:16am #978650
  
  treytalkssports.com
  Participant
  I was in 82games.com looking at his stats. Saw the wrong line. He plays 26% at PF and 4% at SF.
  0
Posted on: Tue, 05/05/2015 - 7:17pm #978630

King Calucha
Participant
Quincy Acy isn’t a SF. He plays exclusively inside despite his height.
0
Posted on: Tue, 05/05/2015 - 9:38pm #978474

Biggysmalls
Participant
I think what this whole list shows is that the term "stretch 4" should be done away with because if you can’t stretch, you are basically a 5.
That may be a bit dramatic as there are a lot of good PFs who don’t shoot a lot of 3s, but just about every good PF in the league is capable of shooting the ball around the college 3 point line and some are becoming more capable of handling the ball and making decisions against rotating defenses.

0
Posted on: Tue, 05/05/2015 - 9:38pm #978638

Biggysmalls
Participant
I think what this whole list shows is that the term "stretch 4" should be done away with because if you can’t stretch, you are basically a 5.
That may be a bit dramatic as there are a lot of good PFs who don’t shoot a lot of 3s, but just about every good PF in the league is capable of shooting the ball around the college 3 point line and some are becoming more capable of handling the ball and making decisions against rotating defenses.

0
Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 3:18am #978488

Swim34061
Participant
He’ll be here eventually…
0
- Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 6:00am #978506
  treytalkssports.com
  Participant
  I think this draft has several possible 3 and D bigs.
  1. Towns is one. He reminds me a bit of Rasheed Wallace, who was a prime 3 and D big for a decade.
  2. Porzingis is another one. He seems to succeed in that role overseas now. I am worried that his game will be to weak to defend the rim in the NBA, but we will see.
  3. Turner seems like a proto-typical 3 and D big. He does not seem to be comfortable around the rim on offense, but he has a developing jumpshot. His play style reminds me of Ibaka, without the elite athleticism.
  4. Looney has the opportunity to be a James Johnson/Giannis type of player: a long, lanky tweener forward who could become an versatile, multi-positional forward. His stroke is good and his defense at the rim is good.
  5. Portis will probably be better in pick-and-roll defense than at the rim. I think he ends up just missing the 30%/50% mark at his best.
  6. Chris McCullough is long and can shoot outside a bit, but he is very raw. I am also always nervous about how Syracuse players transition to the NBA.
  7. Christian Wood is pretty thin right now, but with the right coach, I could see him developing his rim protection and shot selection. He has the raw tools to get there.
  0
  - Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 6:03am #978508
    
    treytalkssports.com
    Participant
    I forgot Frank Kaminsky. I think he will float just around the 50% OFG% at the rim at his best, but he has the potential to be there too.
    0
  - Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 6:03am #978672
    
    treytalkssports.com
    Participant
    I forgot Frank Kaminsky. I think he will float just around the 50% OFG% at the rim at his best, but he has the potential to be there too.
    0
- Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 6:00am #978670
  treytalkssports.com
  Participant
  I think this draft has several possible 3 and D bigs.
  1. Towns is one. He reminds me a bit of Rasheed Wallace, who was a prime 3 and D big for a decade.
  2. Porzingis is another one. He seems to succeed in that role overseas now. I am worried that his game will be to weak to defend the rim in the NBA, but we will see.
  3. Turner seems like a proto-typical 3 and D big. He does not seem to be comfortable around the rim on offense, but he has a developing jumpshot. His play style reminds me of Ibaka, without the elite athleticism.
  4. Looney has the opportunity to be a James Johnson/Giannis type of player: a long, lanky tweener forward who could become an versatile, multi-positional forward. His stroke is good and his defense at the rim is good.
  5. Portis will probably be better in pick-and-roll defense than at the rim. I think he ends up just missing the 30%/50% mark at his best.
  6. Chris McCullough is long and can shoot outside a bit, but he is very raw. I am also always nervous about how Syracuse players transition to the NBA.
  7. Christian Wood is pretty thin right now, but with the right coach, I could see him developing his rim protection and shot selection. He has the raw tools to get there.
  0
Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 3:18am #978652

Swim34061
Participant
He’ll be here eventually…
0
Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 4:19am #978494

Miko4rm206
Participant
Yea just leave it at stretch 4. I see what your trying to do with" 3 and D" bigs but to call a big like LAMarcus Aldrige, Pau Gasol, Serge Ibaka and even draymond Green a "3 and D" player just b/c they occasionally step out and take a 3 is a insult to their overall game. They are more of Versatile do it all big man and Top 10 in the league right now at their position. Leave the term of "3 and D" player more for the Wings. As a big you got to get Rebounds, which doesn’t count as Defense. When you talk about Defense what type of defense do they play are they a Lockdown Paint type of player or great on ball defender? When you say shoot 3s does that mean they don’t have a Post or Mid range game? What I’m try in to say its harder to call a Big man a "3 and D" player because you can’t just be that as A Post player in the league compared to a Wing
0
- Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 4:53am #978502
  
  treytalkssports.com
  Participant
  I would rather have a 3 and D big than a stretch 4. There are plenty of stretch players who cannot defend the rim, like Hawes, Anderson, Frye, Morris Twins, Bosh, Olynyk, Bargnani, etc.
  A 3 and D big is different because they are not soft like a typical stretch four. When opposing players drive it to the rim against them, they can defend the rim with some success.
  It is unique because typically big men either have toughness inside or a soft touch outside. It is difficult for a guy to have the mindset of a rim protector/enforcer on one side of the court and a stretch/faciliator/finesse shooter on the other side of the court.
  I am not reducing any one of these players to ONLY being a 3 and D player, but I am saying that each of these players have a unique skill set that is in high demand in today’s NBA.
  
  0
  - Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 9:33am #978713
    
    Miko4rm206
    Participant
    What I’m saying is When it comes to LAMarcus Aldridge, Serge Ibaka, Pau gasol or even Dirk, or Kevin love the 1st thing that comes to mind about them is not a "3 and D" big man.
    LAMarcus Aldridge is a Corner Stone Big man. One of the Best Post Games inside, Faceup, Back 2 the Basket, midrange and Yes he can Knockdown the Ocassional 3 but that’s Not a Highlight of his game.
    Serge ibaka great Rim Protector and shot blocker. Great pick and pop Big man. Solid midrange. Can knock down the occasional 3 not a highlight in his game
    Even some one like Kevin Love who is Known for his shooting stroke as a big man he is/can be one of the premier rebounder in the league. His defense is not all that great but his versatility on offense and rebounding can over shadow his defense sometimes not the best defender not the worst but out of LA and Ibaka, Kevin love is more of a 3 and D player b/c the 3 is actually apart of his game. But none of them are "3 and D" Big man b/c they provide more.
    That’s like calling Stephen Curry the MVP of the League a " 3 and D" PG. Not noticing the ball handles the passing abilities the finishing the creativeness.
    LA Marcus Aldridge is a All-star. One of my favorite big man in the league and you don’t become a ALLstar from being a " 3 and D" Big man. The 3 ball is not even a Highlight in his game and I feel like its kinda like a Insult
    0
  - Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 9:33am #978550
    
    Miko4rm206
    Participant
    What I’m saying is When it comes to LAMarcus Aldridge, Serge Ibaka, Pau gasol or even Dirk, or Kevin love the 1st thing that comes to mind about them is not a "3 and D" big man.
    LAMarcus Aldridge is a Corner Stone Big man. One of the Best Post Games inside, Faceup, Back 2 the Basket, midrange and Yes he can Knockdown the Ocassional 3 but that’s Not a Highlight of his game.
    Serge ibaka great Rim Protector and shot blocker. Great pick and pop Big man. Solid midrange. Can knock down the occasional 3 not a highlight in his game
    Even some one like Kevin Love who is Known for his shooting stroke as a big man he is/can be one of the premier rebounder in the league. His defense is not all that great but his versatility on offense and rebounding can over shadow his defense sometimes not the best defender not the worst but out of LA and Ibaka, Kevin love is more of a 3 and D player b/c the 3 is actually apart of his game. But none of them are "3 and D" Big man b/c they provide more.
    That’s like calling Stephen Curry the MVP of the League a " 3 and D" PG. Not noticing the ball handles the passing abilities the finishing the creativeness.
    LA Marcus Aldridge is a All-star. One of my favorite big man in the league and you don’t become a ALLstar from being a " 3 and D" Big man. The 3 ball is not even a Highlight in his game and I feel like its kinda like a Insult
    0
    - Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 11:34am #978739
      
      treytalkssports.com
      Participant
      I think I get what you are saying, but I don’t think you get what I am saying.
      The 3 and D is one possibly characteristic of a player, but not the definition of a player.
      For instance, Lamarcus Aldridge might be called a three point shooter and rim protector, but he might also be called a pick-and-pop player, postup scorer, rebounder, pick-and-roll finisher, etc. He might be called a 3 and D big, but he might alse be called a scorer, rebounder, and pick and roll extraordinar.
      Kevin Love would be called a three point shooter, rebounder, pick-and-pop shooter, postup scorer, and distributor, but would not be called a rim protector.
      The better a player is, the more characteristics he might have. My point is that there aren’t that many big man who can shoot the three and protect the rim.
      
      0
    - Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 11:34am #978576
      
      treytalkssports.com
      Participant
      I think I get what you are saying, but I don’t think you get what I am saying.
      The 3 and D is one possibly characteristic of a player, but not the definition of a player.
      For instance, Lamarcus Aldridge might be called a three point shooter and rim protector, but he might also be called a pick-and-pop player, postup scorer, rebounder, pick-and-roll finisher, etc. He might be called a 3 and D big, but he might alse be called a scorer, rebounder, and pick and roll extraordinar.
      Kevin Love would be called a three point shooter, rebounder, pick-and-pop shooter, postup scorer, and distributor, but would not be called a rim protector.
      The better a player is, the more characteristics he might have. My point is that there aren’t that many big man who can shoot the three and protect the rim.
      
      0
      - Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 4:54pm #978785
        
        Miko4rm206
        Participant
        No I never heard someone call laMarcus Aldridge a 3 point shooter. Dude only hit 37 3 pointers for the whole season. Thats not even a 3 pointer every 2 games but he’s a " 3 and D" big if we let you tell it lol.
        I think your a little confused so I’m gonna explain to you a 3 and D player:
        A 3 and D player is somebody Like Andre Roberson, Thabo Sefolosha, Anthony Morrow. Someone who Plays off a Star player usually. Not really a Scoring threat other than hitting the wide open Jumper or to keep the Defense Honest. On Defense since they don’t use that much energy on Offense they are Usually put on the other teams best perimeter threat with the idea that Since they are not needed on offense they can focus all that energy into stopping the opposing teams best offensive weapon
        Example. Thunder playing Kings. Are you gonna have Durant guarding Rudy Gay or are you gonna let Andre Roberson guard GGay so Durant can just focus on his offense?
        
        3 and D is not a characteristic its a play style. Just like Stretch 4, Combo Guard, Point Forward, Shoot 1st PG, Back 2 the Basket Big man, 3 pt Specialist.
        
        LAMarcus Aldridge= Versatile Big, Who can Post up or Faceup. Solid mid range. All star caliber. I’m sure the TrailBlazers didn’t Draft him off his potential to be the best " 3 and D" big man but b/c of his size and versatility and post game. Lol
        0
      - Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 4:54pm #978622
        
        Miko4rm206
        Participant
        No I never heard someone call laMarcus Aldridge a 3 point shooter. Dude only hit 37 3 pointers for the whole season. Thats not even a 3 pointer every 2 games but he’s a " 3 and D" big if we let you tell it lol.
        I think your a little confused so I’m gonna explain to you a 3 and D player:
        A 3 and D player is somebody Like Andre Roberson, Thabo Sefolosha, Anthony Morrow. Someone who Plays off a Star player usually. Not really a Scoring threat other than hitting the wide open Jumper or to keep the Defense Honest. On Defense since they don’t use that much energy on Offense they are Usually put on the other teams best perimeter threat with the idea that Since they are not needed on offense they can focus all that energy into stopping the opposing teams best offensive weapon
        Example. Thunder playing Kings. Are you gonna have Durant guarding Rudy Gay or are you gonna let Andre Roberson guard GGay so Durant can just focus on his offense?
        
        3 and D is not a characteristic its a play style. Just like Stretch 4, Combo Guard, Point Forward, Shoot 1st PG, Back 2 the Basket Big man, 3 pt Specialist.
        
        LAMarcus Aldridge= Versatile Big, Who can Post up or Faceup. Solid mid range. All star caliber. I’m sure the TrailBlazers didn’t Draft him off his potential to be the best " 3 and D" big man but b/c of his size and versatility and post game. Lol
        0
        Posted on: Sun, 05/10/2015 - 10:08am #979347
        
        treytalkssports.com
        Participant
        Aldridge stretched the defense to the three point line by shooting over one a game. This was the first year he shot that many threes, and I expect that number to go up next year.
        Andre Roberson is not a 3 point shooter. Morrow is not a defender.
        All I was trying to do was find a cross section of big men who were rim protectors and three point shooters. I don’t care what their called, but that cross section is one of the most unique in the NBA. I called them 3 and D bigs because they shot the three and defended the rim. Call them stretch and stuff bigs if you want.
        I wasn’t reducing anyone’s game to a singular player type, and I think that was pretty obvious from my explanations.
        
        0
        Posted on: Sun, 05/10/2015 - 10:08am #979187
        
        treytalkssports.com
        Participant
        Aldridge stretched the defense to the three point line by shooting over one a game. This was the first year he shot that many threes, and I expect that number to go up next year.
        Andre Roberson is not a 3 point shooter. Morrow is not a defender.
        All I was trying to do was find a cross section of big men who were rim protectors and three point shooters. I don’t care what their called, but that cross section is one of the most unique in the NBA. I called them 3 and D bigs because they shot the three and defended the rim. Call them stretch and stuff bigs if you want.
        I wasn’t reducing anyone’s game to a singular player type, and I think that was pretty obvious from my explanations.
        
        0
- Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 4:53am #978666
  
  treytalkssports.com
  Participant
  I would rather have a 3 and D big than a stretch 4. There are plenty of stretch players who cannot defend the rim, like Hawes, Anderson, Frye, Morris Twins, Bosh, Olynyk, Bargnani, etc.
  A 3 and D big is different because they are not soft like a typical stretch four. When opposing players drive it to the rim against them, they can defend the rim with some success.
  It is unique because typically big men either have toughness inside or a soft touch outside. It is difficult for a guy to have the mindset of a rim protector/enforcer on one side of the court and a stretch/faciliator/finesse shooter on the other side of the court.
  I am not reducing any one of these players to ONLY being a 3 and D player, but I am saying that each of these players have a unique skill set that is in high demand in today’s NBA.
  
  0
Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 4:19am #978658

Miko4rm206
Participant
Yea just leave it at stretch 4. I see what your trying to do with" 3 and D" bigs but to call a big like LAMarcus Aldrige, Pau Gasol, Serge Ibaka and even draymond Green a "3 and D" player just b/c they occasionally step out and take a 3 is a insult to their overall game. They are more of Versatile do it all big man and Top 10 in the league right now at their position. Leave the term of "3 and D" player more for the Wings. As a big you got to get Rebounds, which doesn’t count as Defense. When you talk about Defense what type of defense do they play are they a Lockdown Paint type of player or great on ball defender? When you say shoot 3s does that mean they don’t have a Post or Mid range game? What I’m try in to say its harder to call a Big man a "3 and D" player because you can’t just be that as A Post player in the league compared to a Wing
0
Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 6:58am #978694

King Calucha
Participant
Actually I believe Bosh is a pretty good defender. Not a great rim protector, but solid in the low post and even better in pick and roll situations than Lamarcus Aldridge.
If we talk about 3 and D bigs, we have to consider bigs to spend a lot of time shooting the 3, not those who shoot the ocassional corner 3 here and there. For defense, I don’t like OFG% at the rim as the measurement.
Someone already mentioned it, Towns will probably be in the list soon. Porzingis as well.

0
Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 6:58am #978530

King Calucha
Participant
Actually I believe Bosh is a pretty good defender. Not a great rim protector, but solid in the low post and even better in pick and roll situations than Lamarcus Aldridge.
If we talk about 3 and D bigs, we have to consider bigs to spend a lot of time shooting the 3, not those who shoot the ocassional corner 3 here and there. For defense, I don’t like OFG% at the rim as the measurement.
Someone already mentioned it, Towns will probably be in the list soon. Porzingis as well.

0
- Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 8:20am #978711
  
  treytalkssports.com
  Participant
  Bosh does not measure well as a defender in the OFG% at the rim. Neither do Horford, Noah, Milsap, or others. Bosh does impact the game defensively in other areas, but he is neither a rim protector nor a possession ender by getting defensive rebounds, which are two typical marks of a good big defender.
  All of the players on my primary list shot over 100 threes this season. That’s over one a game. I think that makes it a major part of their offensive impact for their team. The guys on the third list all either have too small of a sample size or just missed the percentage cut off. I think these guys could be on the first list next year. Motie, Antic, Smith, and Leonard all made the jump from the third list to the first this year.
  I have grown to appreciate the OFG% as a really good measurement of defense around the rim, but it may not be best. Do you have any reasons why you don’t like it?
  
  0
- Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 8:20am #978548
  
  treytalkssports.com
  Participant
  Bosh does not measure well as a defender in the OFG% at the rim. Neither do Horford, Noah, Milsap, or others. Bosh does impact the game defensively in other areas, but he is neither a rim protector nor a possession ender by getting defensive rebounds, which are two typical marks of a good big defender.
  All of the players on my primary list shot over 100 threes this season. That’s over one a game. I think that makes it a major part of their offensive impact for their team. The guys on the third list all either have too small of a sample size or just missed the percentage cut off. I think these guys could be on the first list next year. Motie, Antic, Smith, and Leonard all made the jump from the third list to the first this year.
  I have grown to appreciate the OFG% as a really good measurement of defense around the rim, but it may not be best. Do you have any reasons why you don’t like it?
  
  0
  - Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 11:00am #978735
    
    King Calucha
    Participant
    Defense is more than one stat.
    0
  - Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 11:00am #978572
    
    King Calucha
    Participant
    Defense is more than one stat.
    0
    - Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 11:37am #978741
      
      treytalkssports.com
      Participant
      Agreed. My goal in using OFG% at the rim was to identify productive rim protectors, which is only one aspect of defense, but is an important aspect for big men.
      What defensive stats do you use for big men?
      
      0
    - Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 11:37am #978578
      
      treytalkssports.com
      Participant
      Agreed. My goal in using OFG% at the rim was to identify productive rim protectors, which is only one aspect of defense, but is an important aspect for big men.
      What defensive stats do you use for big men?
      
      0
Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 4:01pm #978777

Hercules.Q.Einstein
Participant
Interesting stuff but it lacks context. Without including more contextual stuff about the stats ( # of shots/ who was shooting) its difficult to value.
Bonner is not a rim protector. josh smith and pero antic don’t stretch the defense, so while I like the concept, its tough to get real value from it…

0
Posted on: Wed, 05/06/2015 - 4:01pm #978614

Hercules.Q.Einstein
Participant
Interesting stuff but it lacks context. Without including more contextual stuff about the stats ( # of shots/ who was shooting) its difficult to value.
Bonner is not a rim protector. josh smith and pero antic don’t stretch the defense, so while I like the concept, its tough to get real value from it…

0
Author
Posts

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.