[lakeshow22Participant]

What are some of the arguments for why Lebron James will surpass Jordan one day? What does Lebron have over him? what stats and accomplishments back up LeBron? what analytics support LeBron? what does LeBron got going for him?

If you were giving a speech on y LeBron would pass Jordan 1 day what would your arguments be?

[TarHeelRavenParticipant]

 I would say the one thing that definitely stands out with Lebron over Jordan is that Lebron is an elite level passer.  Jordan learned to involve his teammates after the mid to late 80’sand that’s what eventually made him a six time NBA champion.  He was the best player in the NBA by a large margin during his prime, but he didn’t win any of those titles by himself.  Jordan became a good distributor and learned to pass the ball effectively to guys like Paxson and Kerr for open game-winning shots, but he was never on the level as Lebron is as a distributor.  Lebron is Magic Johnson-esque in terms of his passing ability and I honestly believe he could average close to 10 assits if he really wanted to.  His basketball IQ is off the charts.  He is 6’8′ 260 and handles the ball like a PG.  Lebron also has the strength factor as well.  Jordan is the greatest finisher of all-time on the break, but he wasn’t a run-away freight train like Lebron.  Lebron is absolutely unstoppable on the break coming at you and the only way you can stop him is to wrap him up.  He finishes through traffic almost as good as anyone I have ever seen.  People wrap him up and he still finishes for the And 1.  If I was making an argument for Lebron over Jordan, I’d have those 2 arguments to back up Lebron being greater than MJ.  

 

[TarHeelRavenParticipant]

 I would say the one thing that definitely stands out with Lebron over Jordan is that Lebron is an elite level passer.  Jordan learned to involve his teammates after the mid to late 80’sand that’s what eventually made him a six time NBA champion.  He was the best player in the NBA by a large margin during his prime, but he didn’t win any of those titles by himself.  Jordan became a good distributor and learned to pass the ball effectively to guys like Paxson and Kerr for open game-winning shots, but he was never on the level as Lebron is as a distributor.  Lebron is Magic Johnson-esque in terms of his passing ability and I honestly believe he could average close to 10 assits if he really wanted to.  His basketball IQ is off the charts.  He is 6’8′ 260 and handles the ball like a PG.  Lebron also has the strength factor as well.  Jordan is the greatest finisher of all-time on the break, but he wasn’t a run-away freight train like Lebron.  Lebron is absolutely unstoppable on the break coming at you and the only way you can stop him is to wrap him up.  He finishes through traffic almost as good as anyone I have ever seen.  People wrap him up and he still finishes for the And 1.  If I was making an argument for Lebron over Jordan, I’d have those 2 arguments to back up Lebron being greater than MJ.  

 

[llperez]

I’m not supporting Lebron over Jordan and I don’t even want to waste energy on this type of topic. But I will say that the wing positions of sg/sf have evolved tremendously since the 80’s 90’s. Prime Jordan battled guys like drexler, dumars, Reggie miller, Richmond, majerle, Starks, Hersey Hawkins etc… Those were the all stars back then. He didn’t have to battle prime Lebron, prime Kobe, prime iverson, prime tmac, prime wade. I’m not saying Jordan wouldn’t be able to come In and outplay those guys and be the best player in today’s game. But the gap would be much less. There would be tons of close battles where some guys would get the best of him and it would go back and forth. Jordan’s mystique and legacy was partly based on just how far ahead of everyone else in his time. He was clearly the best guy with every person he matched up with. It’s one of the things that made him so dominant and remembered so fondly. I think in this era, he would have a lot more tough battles.

[llperez]

I’m not supporting Lebron over Jordan and I don’t even want to waste energy on this type of topic. But I will say that the wing positions of sg/sf have evolved tremendously since the 80’s 90’s. Prime Jordan battled guys like drexler, dumars, Reggie miller, Richmond, majerle, Starks, Hersey Hawkins etc… Those were the all stars back then. He didn’t have to battle prime Lebron, prime Kobe, prime iverson, prime tmac, prime wade. I’m not saying Jordan wouldn’t be able to come In and outplay those guys and be the best player in today’s game. But the gap would be much less. There would be tons of close battles where some guys would get the best of him and it would go back and forth. Jordan’s mystique and legacy was partly based on just how far ahead of everyone else in his time. He was clearly the best guy with every person he matched up with. It’s one of the things that made him so dominant and remembered so fondly. I think in this era, he would have a lot more tough battles.

[HaleParticipant]

The main argument would be that he’s more versatile. In our current era he’s an elite level player at four positions and can spend minimal amounts of time at the 5. Although back then it wasn’t as important, Jordan wasn’t much of a shooter from beyond the arc, LeBron definitely has an advantage there. LeBron is also a better passer and has been relied on his passing more than Jordan was. Certainly not a weakness Jordan had but it’s definitely one of LeBron’s strengths. Only other thing I can think of is LeBron seems to be slightly favored in advanced metrics in terms of shooting efficiency. However, Jordan’s numbers are over his entire career and LeBron hasn’t hit the declining stage yet so surely those numbers will go down.

[HaleParticipant]

The main argument would be that he’s more versatile. In our current era he’s an elite level player at four positions and can spend minimal amounts of time at the 5. Although back then it wasn’t as important, Jordan wasn’t much of a shooter from beyond the arc, LeBron definitely has an advantage there. LeBron is also a better passer and has been relied on his passing more than Jordan was. Certainly not a weakness Jordan had but it’s definitely one of LeBron’s strengths. Only other thing I can think of is LeBron seems to be slightly favored in advanced metrics in terms of shooting efficiency. However, Jordan’s numbers are over his entire career and LeBron hasn’t hit the declining stage yet so surely those numbers will go down.

[dabonettParticipant]

But winning 6 consecutive championships ( ok there is always the original sin of teaming with two superstars) like basically Jordan ( non counting the baseball break)…. Maybe winning a championship in cleveland

 

[dabonettParticipant]

But winning 6 consecutive championships ( ok there is always the original sin of teaming with two superstars) like basically Jordan ( non counting the baseball break)…. Maybe winning a championship in cleveland

 

[IhateusernamesParticipant]

 Lebron can guard ANY position on the floor and shut them down (ask Derrick rose, kevin Durant). Michael allowed Scottie to do his dirty work on defender for him.

Add that to the 27-30ppg LeBron gets along with 8, RPGs And apg and 54-55% fg percentage, which is about what Michael was getting in his prime. I think the defensive dominance gives Lebron the edge

[IhateusernamesParticipant]

 Lebron can guard ANY position on the floor and shut them down (ask Derrick rose, kevin Durant). Michael allowed Scottie to do his dirty work on defender for him.

Add that to the 27-30ppg LeBron gets along with 8, RPGs And apg and 54-55% fg percentage, which is about what Michael was getting in his prime. I think the defensive dominance gives Lebron the edge

[GrandmamaParticipant]

 He can’t guard good centers.  If he tried guarding Duncan, Howard, Gasol, Bynum (healthy), etc he would get eaten up.

 

Defensive dominance?  Jordan is the best defensive SG ever.  Same can’t be said about Lebron at SF.  He’s a more versitile defender because he can guard PG-PF, but Jordan was clearly a superior defender.

 

 

[GrandmamaParticipant]

 He can’t guard good centers.  If he tried guarding Duncan, Howard, Gasol, Bynum (healthy), etc he would get eaten up.

 

Defensive dominance?  Jordan is the best defensive SG ever.  Same can’t be said about Lebron at SF.  He’s a more versitile defender because he can guard PG-PF, but Jordan was clearly a superior defender.

 

 

[druneave3Participant]

 Whether people want to admit it or not, the Jordan – LeBron debate is real. If nothing else LeBron has raised more questions regarding the GOAT debate more than anyone else. I have went back and forth on this issue but would ultimately go with Mike. LeBron is a very, very close second.

Some of the reasons why LeBron could surpass Mike in some people’s eyes has the best ever mainly relate to his size combined with his athleticism and versatility. 

Size – Like every category when comparing the two, the differences are minimal. LeBron with a few inches extra on Jordan, but the mass and brute strength that LeBron possess is like nothing seen before. Jordan had to work extremely hard, after he met the Pistons, to get stronger and work his physique. LeBron was a manchild. 

Passing – The slight edge goes to LeBron here but ultimately is the reason why he ranks #2 in my eyes. The way each play the game is so different with contrasting philosophies. One is selfish and would $#!@ on anyone in order to be the best. At cards, golf, cars, clothes, or anything. The other looks to get others involved first and just wants to be liked. And to think for a very long time, LeBron was the bad guy. I just want the selfish guy leading my team. The Cleaner. Jordan averaged 11 assists over half a season when asked to take over PG duties. That just wasn’t his game. With LeBron’s size + vision, ability to see over the D, combined with his willingness and desire to pass the ball, he gets the nod here. 

1 on 1 Defensive Ability – Jordan had better defensive awareness and no slouch as an individual lock-down defender. Again, size matters. Versatility is key in this category as well. LeBron can literally almost guard anyone. 

Ability to get to the rim at the finish – Jordan was obviously one of the best in the category as well but LeBron, with this size, strength, speed, is the best, EVER. 

 

Mike’s cutthroat mentality, motivation to beat an opponent and be the best, along with all his overall basketball prowess and scoring abilities still make him the GOAT. Who knows how many titles in a row the Bulls would have won if they stayed together during the baseball years and after the final break up? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[druneave3Participant]

 Whether people want to admit it or not, the Jordan – LeBron debate is real. If nothing else LeBron has raised more questions regarding the GOAT debate more than anyone else. I have went back and forth on this issue but would ultimately go with Mike. LeBron is a very, very close second.

Some of the reasons why LeBron could surpass Mike in some people’s eyes has the best ever mainly relate to his size combined with his athleticism and versatility. 

Size – Like every category when comparing the two, the differences are minimal. LeBron with a few inches extra on Jordan, but the mass and brute strength that LeBron possess is like nothing seen before. Jordan had to work extremely hard, after he met the Pistons, to get stronger and work his physique. LeBron was a manchild. 

Passing – The slight edge goes to LeBron here but ultimately is the reason why he ranks #2 in my eyes. The way each play the game is so different with contrasting philosophies. One is selfish and would $#!@ on anyone in order to be the best. At cards, golf, cars, clothes, or anything. The other looks to get others involved first and just wants to be liked. And to think for a very long time, LeBron was the bad guy. I just want the selfish guy leading my team. The Cleaner. Jordan averaged 11 assists over half a season when asked to take over PG duties. That just wasn’t his game. With LeBron’s size + vision, ability to see over the D, combined with his willingness and desire to pass the ball, he gets the nod here. 

1 on 1 Defensive Ability – Jordan had better defensive awareness and no slouch as an individual lock-down defender. Again, size matters. Versatility is key in this category as well. LeBron can literally almost guard anyone. 

Ability to get to the rim at the finish – Jordan was obviously one of the best in the category as well but LeBron, with this size, strength, speed, is the best, EVER. 

 

Mike’s cutthroat mentality, motivation to beat an opponent and be the best, along with all his overall basketball prowess and scoring abilities still make him the GOAT. Who knows how many titles in a row the Bulls would have won if they stayed together during the baseball years and after the final break up? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Anybody who is old enough to watch MJ in his prime will remember how dominant he was.  I won’t say Lebron will be better than Jordan because I don’t believe it.  He will probably end up with better individual stats and if he does that and gets to 6 rings then I will consider it.  But he has to get those rings first.

Lebron is definitely the better passer, there is no question there.

Jordan was definitely the better scorer I don’t think there is any question there.  

Lebron is a physical specimen, the most impressive combination of size and athleticsm that has ever come into the NBA, or any sport for that matter.  But based off the way he flops and tries to sell contact in todays game, I just don’t know what he would have done back in the late 80’s early 90’s.  His size tells me that he would have been able to handle that contact, but his mental make up tells me he wouldn’t want to, and he wouldn’t keep attacking the rim, and he wouldn’t be nearly as effective.

Lebron plays in the age of "no hand checking" on the perimeter.  Jordan played when you could literally strong arm an opponent on the perimeter, using your strength to not let him get by.  If Jordan played in todays NBA nobody would be able to stop him or slow him down without playing a zone.  The notion of Lebron being able to guard MJ is humerous.  It just wouldn’t happen.  MJ would average 40 in todays NBA and get to the line about 15 times a game, his quickness and his ridiculous hang time would guarantee this.

People try to just compare the two straight up without taking the era’s of basketball that they play in.  A physical specimen like Lebron benefits from the soft/flopping play of the NBA now.  Jordan did it when the NBA was unnecessarily tough.

Not to mention if he doesn’t take his "baseball" break, there is a good chance he wins 8 in a row, or at least 7 out of 8 which would basically make this conversation a non starter.

I don’t know what it will take for me to put someone ahead of MJ as to me he is by far the greatest player and competitor I have ever seen.  Dude was just cut from a different cloth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HaleParticipant]

LeBron would’ve gotten to the paint just fine. He hasn’t always been a flopper and he’s never had issues taking contact. He’s taken more of a beating than any non-big man for like the last decade and done just fine. His mental makeup has never been an issue either. People just love to blow things out of proportion. If you look at all the things he’s done on the court and off you should know he’s not mentally weak at all. A killer on par with Jordan? No. Mentally strong? Yes. I’m not saying LeBron is Jordan. He’s not and I’ll argue Jordan is better to the death. Just don’t like those reasons.

[HaleParticipant]

LeBron would’ve gotten to the paint just fine. He hasn’t always been a flopper and he’s never had issues taking contact. He’s taken more of a beating than any non-big man for like the last decade and done just fine. His mental makeup has never been an issue either. People just love to blow things out of proportion. If you look at all the things he’s done on the court and off you should know he’s not mentally weak at all. A killer on par with Jordan? No. Mentally strong? Yes. I’m not saying LeBron is Jordan. He’s not and I’ll argue Jordan is better to the death. Just don’t like those reasons.

[tuck243Participant]

LeBron didn’t have to grow up in the no hand checking, but also in that era was illegal defense.  I think a lot of people get confused how the NBA changed in the "Jordan Era"…  After the Bad Boys you couldn’t bully players like the Pistons did… After the Bulls beat the Pistons, players weren’t fouling people hard…  It just wasn’t happening…  Jordan was allowed to go one on one for majority of his career.  Either you had to commit to the double team or they get a penalty shot…  This allowed Jordan to get those passing numbers off…   I’m not saying it wasn’t harder to get to the rim, just Jordan had a different advantage than LeBron offensively…

That flopping into contact IS Jordan… He just never really complained to the point he would lose out on defense…  Side Bar: I never really see Melo complain either…

 

  

[tuck243Participant]

LeBron didn’t have to grow up in the no hand checking, but also in that era was illegal defense.  I think a lot of people get confused how the NBA changed in the "Jordan Era"…  After the Bad Boys you couldn’t bully players like the Pistons did… After the Bulls beat the Pistons, players weren’t fouling people hard…  It just wasn’t happening…  Jordan was allowed to go one on one for majority of his career.  Either you had to commit to the double team or they get a penalty shot…  This allowed Jordan to get those passing numbers off…   I’m not saying it wasn’t harder to get to the rim, just Jordan had a different advantage than LeBron offensively…

That flopping into contact IS Jordan… He just never really complained to the point he would lose out on defense…  Side Bar: I never really see Melo complain either…

 

  

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Anybody who is old enough to watch MJ in his prime will remember how dominant he was.  I won’t say Lebron will be better than Jordan because I don’t believe it.  He will probably end up with better individual stats and if he does that and gets to 6 rings then I will consider it.  But he has to get those rings first.

Lebron is definitely the better passer, there is no question there.

Jordan was definitely the better scorer I don’t think there is any question there.  

Lebron is a physical specimen, the most impressive combination of size and athleticsm that has ever come into the NBA, or any sport for that matter.  But based off the way he flops and tries to sell contact in todays game, I just don’t know what he would have done back in the late 80’s early 90’s.  His size tells me that he would have been able to handle that contact, but his mental make up tells me he wouldn’t want to, and he wouldn’t keep attacking the rim, and he wouldn’t be nearly as effective.

Lebron plays in the age of "no hand checking" on the perimeter.  Jordan played when you could literally strong arm an opponent on the perimeter, using your strength to not let him get by.  If Jordan played in todays NBA nobody would be able to stop him or slow him down without playing a zone.  The notion of Lebron being able to guard MJ is humerous.  It just wouldn’t happen.  MJ would average 40 in todays NBA and get to the line about 15 times a game, his quickness and his ridiculous hang time would guarantee this.

People try to just compare the two straight up without taking the era’s of basketball that they play in.  A physical specimen like Lebron benefits from the soft/flopping play of the NBA now.  Jordan did it when the NBA was unnecessarily tough.

Not to mention if he doesn’t take his "baseball" break, there is a good chance he wins 8 in a row, or at least 7 out of 8 which would basically make this conversation a non starter.

I don’t know what it will take for me to put someone ahead of MJ as to me he is by far the greatest player and competitor I have ever seen.  Dude was just cut from a different cloth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rip255]

Previous post is correct, the debate is real. Simply because LBJ is the best player since the GOAT was doing his thing.

Scoring – Jordan

Passing – LBJ

Defense – Equal – Jordan for perimeter defense, Lebron for Defensive Versatility

Making teammates better – Equal because Jordan did it through demanding excellence, LBJ through unselfishness on court

Clutch – Jordan

Intangibles – Jordan – The guy simply hated to lose. He never coasted in regular season. He wanted to win everything, and did. His competitive nature give him the edge here

 

Final Verdict – Jordan, but both will be on Mt Rushmore when all is said and done

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Rip255]

Previous post is correct, the debate is real. Simply because LBJ is the best player since the GOAT was doing his thing.

Scoring – Jordan

Passing – LBJ

Defense – Equal – Jordan for perimeter defense, Lebron for Defensive Versatility

Making teammates better – Equal because Jordan did it through demanding excellence, LBJ through unselfishness on court

Clutch – Jordan

Intangibles – Jordan – The guy simply hated to lose. He never coasted in regular season. He wanted to win everything, and did. His competitive nature give him the edge here

 

Final Verdict – Jordan, but both will be on Mt Rushmore when all is said and done

 

 

 

 

 

  

[tuck243Participant]

One of my favorite debates…  

I’ve watched more of Jordan games the past few years than LeBron’s…  I’ll say this, throw out all the hardware and accomplishments (because LeBron’s career isn’t near finished) and compare the 2.  LeBron is closing that gap pretty damn fast and his main issue right now is going after someone that’s untouchable in a lot of people’s eyes.  For some people, NO ONE will be better than Jordan.  A lot of disdain for Kobe was partially coming after Jordan.  Now hear me out, we all know people that HATE Kobe…but that hate has allowed them to miss a pretty special player after the Shaq years..  Kobe never got the respect he deserved from fans like Bird and Magic did…  He scored 81 points in one game, you know how BIG that is?  The fact that his game is similar to MJ’s the comparisons came, even if Kobe’s percentages were higher he wouldn’t get the respect… It’s going against the God himself, Michael Jordan…

LeBron now is facing the same delima Kobe was.  People can’t get rid of the fact that someone can be better than Jordan.  We remember the free throw with his eyes closed, we remember shots on Ehlo, we remember the shrug, we remember the dunk contest, and the push off…   What do we remember about LeBron?  Dunks?  That he didn’t have courage? I think we’re fixed to believe just how great Jordan was and unless a person can replace those memories no one will be good enough.

The truth is Jordan was very efficient.  He didn’t take too many bad shots and lived in the mid-range area majority of his career.  He was so athletic that he would just pull up from any area and shoot over the defense…  Probably hands down the smartest player to ever play the game…  He made tough shots, yes, but majority of his shots he didn’t settle for…  I think that’s what gets missed when people speak of Jordan because of all the highlight shots…  This is why Kobe wasn’t efficient…  I haven’t seen Kobe miss too many open shots, in fact if I had to guess how many I’ve seen I’ll say 15…  LOL… Its that bad…   LeBron gets easy shots all the time, more so than any superstar in recent memory… Why?

Because LeBron is simply too damn strong and too damn powerful to allow him to get pass you with his first step…  Even Jordan wasn’t as powerful as LeBron…  Defense?  I’ll say Jordan didn’t gaurd too many stars and when he did? He got shredded…  Jordan was the weak side defender and Pippen was the lock down…  Magic always tell the story of Jordan’s first ring…  Magic thrashed Jordan in that series…  It wasn’t until Phil put Pippen on Magic that it turned the series in the Bulls favor…  I’m not saying Michael wasn’t a good defender, I’m saying his defense was a tad overrated…  Also throw in the fact he could hand check and see why I think LeBron has the edge…

Offense? It’s easy to give LeBron the edge in the 3pt shot looking at percentages… but look closely, Jordan didn’t take a lot of 3’s…  Look at the sharp shooting Larry "The Legend" Bird… He didn’t shoot many as well and shot 20% for YEARS…  It was a different game…  You can look at both players (LeBron n MJ) and see Jordan has a better jumper, LeBron is just open more…  Outside of jumper and having a go to move, I don’t see how Jordan is much better… Rebounding? LeBron…  Passing? LeBron…  I don’t think Pippen was too far off when he said LeBron has passed Jordan…(Not saying that he has, just saying its close)…  WE just have to learn how to accept LeBron for who he is, he’s not going to sweep us away like Jordan did…  He’s not…  But he can be a more complete and better player…  That’s for damn sure…  

 

 

 

 

  

[tuck243Participant]

One of my favorite debates…  

I’ve watched more of Jordan games the past few years than LeBron’s…  I’ll say this, throw out all the hardware and accomplishments (because LeBron’s career isn’t near finished) and compare the 2.  LeBron is closing that gap pretty damn fast and his main issue right now is going after someone that’s untouchable in a lot of people’s eyes.  For some people, NO ONE will be better than Jordan.  A lot of disdain for Kobe was partially coming after Jordan.  Now hear me out, we all know people that HATE Kobe…but that hate has allowed them to miss a pretty special player after the Shaq years..  Kobe never got the respect he deserved from fans like Bird and Magic did…  He scored 81 points in one game, you know how BIG that is?  The fact that his game is similar to MJ’s the comparisons came, even if Kobe’s percentages were higher he wouldn’t get the respect… It’s going against the God himself, Michael Jordan…

LeBron now is facing the same delima Kobe was.  People can’t get rid of the fact that someone can be better than Jordan.  We remember the free throw with his eyes closed, we remember shots on Ehlo, we remember the shrug, we remember the dunk contest, and the push off…   What do we remember about LeBron?  Dunks?  That he didn’t have courage? I think we’re fixed to believe just how great Jordan was and unless a person can replace those memories no one will be good enough.

The truth is Jordan was very efficient.  He didn’t take too many bad shots and lived in the mid-range area majority of his career.  He was so athletic that he would just pull up from any area and shoot over the defense…  Probably hands down the smartest player to ever play the game…  He made tough shots, yes, but majority of his shots he didn’t settle for…  I think that’s what gets missed when people speak of Jordan because of all the highlight shots…  This is why Kobe wasn’t efficient…  I haven’t seen Kobe miss too many open shots, in fact if I had to guess how many I’ve seen I’ll say 15…  LOL… Its that bad…   LeBron gets easy shots all the time, more so than any superstar in recent memory… Why?

Because LeBron is simply too damn strong and too damn powerful to allow him to get pass you with his first step…  Even Jordan wasn’t as powerful as LeBron…  Defense?  I’ll say Jordan didn’t gaurd too many stars and when he did? He got shredded…  Jordan was the weak side defender and Pippen was the lock down…  Magic always tell the story of Jordan’s first ring…  Magic thrashed Jordan in that series…  It wasn’t until Phil put Pippen on Magic that it turned the series in the Bulls favor…  I’m not saying Michael wasn’t a good defender, I’m saying his defense was a tad overrated…  Also throw in the fact he could hand check and see why I think LeBron has the edge…

Offense? It’s easy to give LeBron the edge in the 3pt shot looking at percentages… but look closely, Jordan didn’t take a lot of 3’s…  Look at the sharp shooting Larry "The Legend" Bird… He didn’t shoot many as well and shot 20% for YEARS…  It was a different game…  You can look at both players (LeBron n MJ) and see Jordan has a better jumper, LeBron is just open more…  Outside of jumper and having a go to move, I don’t see how Jordan is much better… Rebounding? LeBron…  Passing? LeBron…  I don’t think Pippen was too far off when he said LeBron has passed Jordan…(Not saying that he has, just saying its close)…  WE just have to learn how to accept LeBron for who he is, he’s not going to sweep us away like Jordan did…  He’s not…  But he can be a more complete and better player…  That’s for damn sure…  

 

 

 

 

  

[TONYDABOSS77Participant]

I was having a debate about this today. Jordan’s the GOAT in my opinion over anyone for real, but it is a debate.

However, LeBron has won 2 straight titles & Final’s MVP’s. If he can win 2 more (he looks to have it locked up this year), I think I have to atleast put him & Jordan on the same level. With the direction the game’s going in, I could see him dominating for another 5-6 years.

As far as LeBron’s numbers declining, maybe his scoring avg, but that’s it. I could still see him avg 20 a game for the rest of his career. With his approach to the game, I see him converting his game away from being the 1st scoring option & into Magic Johnson mode. His body is big enough to where he could still get to the lane & absorb contact & I don’t think his feel for the game will ever leave.

Another question I have is why doesn’t Magic Johnson get brought up in more GOAT debates? All I ever hear is Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, & Bill Russell….Just a thought.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

To me Bill Russell isn’t even in the conversation.  Yeah 11 rings is impressive. But their were 8 teams for most of those and I think 12 at most.  The GOAT is definitely a product of the modern NBA.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

To me Bill Russell isn’t even in the conversation.  Yeah 11 rings is impressive. But their were 8 teams for most of those and I think 12 at most.  The GOAT is definitely a product of the modern NBA.

[daggers818Participant]

Been watching NBA for 45 years.  Seen everyone play since 1968 (yes, I’m old!).  Not saying Jordan isn’t the best and Lebron will be up there too.  But it’s so hard to compare eras.  One can only evaulate how they did against the competiton they faced.  As far as the others… 

Totally agree about Magic being left out of the discussion.  I watched Magic dominate games like no other player.  He easily could have scored 30 ppg but chose to always make his teammates look better — something Jordan didn’t really do as much and Kobe clearly doesn’t do.  Jordan could only start to win once both Magic and Bird entered their decline.  Think about this: Magic as a 20 year old rookie, Kareem unable to suit up, plays all five postions, goes 42/15/7 in a close-out title game against Dr J and a strong Sixers team.  You tell me who is ever going to do that again as a rookie?

Let’s also not forget Kareem.  The most unstoppable shot ever and never duplicated.  Graceful, smart, athletic, and ridicuously long.  When he was on the Bucks I hated that guy because he could not be stopped.  They changed the college game and ELIMINATED dunking because of him.  Can you imagine that!

And Bill Russell.  He got the rings by playing team ball (never even averaged 16ppg), it’s totally silly to imagine that kind of domination without scoring a bunch.  If you don’t think he could ball today, look him up on YouTube going coast to coast.  He would kill people today.  Unreal.

Smartest player ever: Bird.  Not even a debate.  And I hate the Celtics but have mad respect for him.  Next best Jerry West who has taken those smarts to become arguably the best exec ever.

True fans respect the history of the game and realize that those players would be just as successful today with advanced training, nutrition, etc and the ability to travel, carry the ball, avoid handchecking, etc.

Bring it on.

[BennyWestsideParticipant]

 While Bill Russell was great, the game was totally different then. The Celtics had like 4 of the top 10 players in the leauge because the rules hadn’t been fully ironed out yet, and Bill Russell was so much bigger and stronger than anyone else. It would be like having a 7’8" center who was 300 lbs but could still run the floor nowadays. 

The big thing that people often forget when comparing LeBron and Jordan is that Jordan couldn’t win in the playoffs when he was young either, just like LeBron. He had to learn how to do it, like LeBron. However, when we compare LeBron to Jordan we compare this immature (from a winning standpoint) to the full career on MJ. For example, LBJ won his first ring at 27 and MJ won his first at 28. If LeBron goes on a streak and wins 5-6 rings for the rest of his career, then he has effectively been just as much of a champion as MJ, and will probably have a similar level of playof dominance. However, because the narrative of him being a playoff choker would have already been written from his early years (when MJ never even made the finals), it will always be seen as something he did worse than Jordan. 

Also, the criticism of LBJ leaving his team to join another team shouldn’t really have a place in this argument. Just because James was stuck on a terrible team in Cleveland  doesn’t mean he should have to stay there when no talent is put around him. MJ never did this, but he never had to since the team that drafted him signed a great coach and drafted/signed great talent like Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman over the years. 

Finally, people always bring up the hand checking rules as a reason why MJ would dominate the NBA that LeBron has. However, LBJ has had to deal with zone defenses and the rotated defenses that those bring. In Mike’s day teams could not double team him without severely, severely compromising their defense because they had to stay in man-to-man looks. They also could not have a big man lurking in the paint to challenge every shot at the rim, like defenses do nowadays. Just imagine what LeBron would have done if he played in an era where rim protectors were having to fly in from posting a big on teh block to challenge his shots. Meanwhile, Jordan would have had more trouble (not saying he would have been bad) scoring at the rim than he did in his era which was built to make it easier to be an iso scorer.

[BennyWestsideParticipant]

 While Bill Russell was great, the game was totally different then. The Celtics had like 4 of the top 10 players in the leauge because the rules hadn’t been fully ironed out yet, and Bill Russell was so much bigger and stronger than anyone else. It would be like having a 7’8" center who was 300 lbs but could still run the floor nowadays. 

The big thing that people often forget when comparing LeBron and Jordan is that Jordan couldn’t win in the playoffs when he was young either, just like LeBron. He had to learn how to do it, like LeBron. However, when we compare LeBron to Jordan we compare this immature (from a winning standpoint) to the full career on MJ. For example, LBJ won his first ring at 27 and MJ won his first at 28. If LeBron goes on a streak and wins 5-6 rings for the rest of his career, then he has effectively been just as much of a champion as MJ, and will probably have a similar level of playof dominance. However, because the narrative of him being a playoff choker would have already been written from his early years (when MJ never even made the finals), it will always be seen as something he did worse than Jordan. 

Also, the criticism of LBJ leaving his team to join another team shouldn’t really have a place in this argument. Just because James was stuck on a terrible team in Cleveland  doesn’t mean he should have to stay there when no talent is put around him. MJ never did this, but he never had to since the team that drafted him signed a great coach and drafted/signed great talent like Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman over the years. 

Finally, people always bring up the hand checking rules as a reason why MJ would dominate the NBA that LeBron has. However, LBJ has had to deal with zone defenses and the rotated defenses that those bring. In Mike’s day teams could not double team him without severely, severely compromising their defense because they had to stay in man-to-man looks. They also could not have a big man lurking in the paint to challenge every shot at the rim, like defenses do nowadays. Just imagine what LeBron would have done if he played in an era where rim protectors were having to fly in from posting a big on teh block to challenge his shots. Meanwhile, Jordan would have had more trouble (not saying he would have been bad) scoring at the rim than he did in his era which was built to make it easier to be an iso scorer.

[daggers818Participant]

Been watching NBA for 45 years.  Seen everyone play since 1968 (yes, I’m old!).  Not saying Jordan isn’t the best and Lebron will be up there too.  But it’s so hard to compare eras.  One can only evaulate how they did against the competiton they faced.  As far as the others… 

Totally agree about Magic being left out of the discussion.  I watched Magic dominate games like no other player.  He easily could have scored 30 ppg but chose to always make his teammates look better — something Jordan didn’t really do as much and Kobe clearly doesn’t do.  Jordan could only start to win once both Magic and Bird entered their decline.  Think about this: Magic as a 20 year old rookie, Kareem unable to suit up, plays all five postions, goes 42/15/7 in a close-out title game against Dr J and a strong Sixers team.  You tell me who is ever going to do that again as a rookie?

Let’s also not forget Kareem.  The most unstoppable shot ever and never duplicated.  Graceful, smart, athletic, and ridicuously long.  When he was on the Bucks I hated that guy because he could not be stopped.  They changed the college game and ELIMINATED dunking because of him.  Can you imagine that!

And Bill Russell.  He got the rings by playing team ball (never even averaged 16ppg), it’s totally silly to imagine that kind of domination without scoring a bunch.  If you don’t think he could ball today, look him up on YouTube going coast to coast.  He would kill people today.  Unreal.

Smartest player ever: Bird.  Not even a debate.  And I hate the Celtics but have mad respect for him.  Next best Jerry West who has taken those smarts to become arguably the best exec ever.

True fans respect the history of the game and realize that those players would be just as successful today with advanced training, nutrition, etc and the ability to travel, carry the ball, avoid handchecking, etc.

Bring it on.

[TONYDABOSS77Participant]

I was having a debate about this today. Jordan’s the GOAT in my opinion over anyone for real, but it is a debate.

However, LeBron has won 2 straight titles & Final’s MVP’s. If he can win 2 more (he looks to have it locked up this year), I think I have to atleast put him & Jordan on the same level. With the direction the game’s going in, I could see him dominating for another 5-6 years.

As far as LeBron’s numbers declining, maybe his scoring avg, but that’s it. I could still see him avg 20 a game for the rest of his career. With his approach to the game, I see him converting his game away from being the 1st scoring option & into Magic Johnson mode. His body is big enough to where he could still get to the lane & absorb contact & I don’t think his feel for the game will ever leave.

Another question I have is why doesn’t Magic Johnson get brought up in more GOAT debates? All I ever hear is Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, & Bill Russell….Just a thought.

[HOops1562Participant]

Stop discussing this has Jordan ever scored 8 points in a Finals and crumpled on the biggest stage ? I think the 2011 Finals took Lebron out of the debate …. not to mention he was one rebound away from just 1 title last year Jordan ? 6 titles in 6 tries no debate sorry fellas the Goat will always be the Goat

[tuck243Participant]

Versus the Sonics…   Also, if Pippen didn’t go down with an injury he would’ve been Finals MVP too…   See this explains what I was saying…  LeBron is battling against a GOD in people’s eyes…  Unless he becomes one too, its no way he will get the crown…   This is why people make up things like he NEED to get X amount of rings and MVP’s…  Steve Nash has 2 MVP’s that should have went to LeBron…  He was the first player in history to be MVP only averaging 15 and 10…  With people who vote saying whomever has the better record is their vote for MVP…  Is that all it takes?  This is why I say hardware should only be taken into consideration after a players career…  While playing we can only compare skills, and currently can you say MJ is better by a large margin?  

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

 Nope, Nash deserved one. The other one should’ve gone to Kobe.

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

 Nope, Nash deserved one. The other one should’ve gone to Kobe.

[tuck243Participant]

 ???

[tuck243Participant]

 ???

[HOops1562Participant]

Let’s compare those finals
Jordan : 27 PPG 5 Rebounds 4 Assists 1.7 steals
Lebron: 17 PPG 7 Rebounds 6 Assists 1.7 steals

Jordan was guarded by Payton and Nate McMillan
Lebron by DeShawn Stevenson and Shawn Marion

Jordan would have eaten Stevenson for breakfast …. imagine Deshawn trying to trash talk Jordan hell he would have dropped 50 on him …. this was Jordan’s worst NBA finals and it doesn’t even look half bad 27 ppg isn’t bad when your taking on a good team like Seattle 2nd best defensive team that year …. there is no reason why Miami should have lost that finals to Dallas they were the better team on paper but Lebron didn’t find a way for his team to win and Jordan did

[benny15Participant]

 im not one to defend lebron, he’s got a ton of fans to do that for him, but youre basically disregarding the entire coaching staff and defensive strategies the mavs put in place to force lebron in the situations he was in. and jordan didnt have to go through that in the 90’s because there was no zone at the time and it was all man to man d. im not saying jordan wouldnt have still gone out and scored a ton of points, but rather saying he was never placed in the same situation.

lebron and the heat simply didnt lose that finals, i feel thats a big diservice to the credit the mavs deserved. they were the better team, from the players on the court, to the coaches on the bench, to the guys who broke down the video of how miami played in the back. they all played a crucial part in stopping miami.

[benny15Participant]

 im not one to defend lebron, he’s got a ton of fans to do that for him, but youre basically disregarding the entire coaching staff and defensive strategies the mavs put in place to force lebron in the situations he was in. and jordan didnt have to go through that in the 90’s because there was no zone at the time and it was all man to man d. im not saying jordan wouldnt have still gone out and scored a ton of points, but rather saying he was never placed in the same situation.

lebron and the heat simply didnt lose that finals, i feel thats a big diservice to the credit the mavs deserved. they were the better team, from the players on the court, to the coaches on the bench, to the guys who broke down the video of how miami played in the back. they all played a crucial part in stopping miami.

[tuck243Participant]

 I said Jordan shot terrible… Which he did…  41%….  Lebron shot 47%…   So foh with that….   Lebron was forced to give the ball up early and was never agressive….   That’s on him…  But to say that Jordan would eat Stevenson for breakfast is very misleading…  Because they played in 2 different era’s and the Mavs were able to overload on one side versus LeBron…   I don’t know what you were watching but Jordan would’ve been forced to give up the rock more…   Obviously it’s easy to say Jordan would have dominated, but we honestly don’t know because he never played against the Mavs in 2011…   

[tuck243Participant]

 I said Jordan shot terrible… Which he did…  41%….  Lebron shot 47%…   So foh with that….   Lebron was forced to give the ball up early and was never agressive….   That’s on him…  But to say that Jordan would eat Stevenson for breakfast is very misleading…  Because they played in 2 different era’s and the Mavs were able to overload on one side versus LeBron…   I don’t know what you were watching but Jordan would’ve been forced to give up the rock more…   Obviously it’s easy to say Jordan would have dominated, but we honestly don’t know because he never played against the Mavs in 2011…   

[HOops1562Participant]

Let’s compare those finals
Jordan : 27 PPG 5 Rebounds 4 Assists 1.7 steals
Lebron: 17 PPG 7 Rebounds 6 Assists 1.7 steals

Jordan was guarded by Payton and Nate McMillan
Lebron by DeShawn Stevenson and Shawn Marion

Jordan would have eaten Stevenson for breakfast …. imagine Deshawn trying to trash talk Jordan hell he would have dropped 50 on him …. this was Jordan’s worst NBA finals and it doesn’t even look half bad 27 ppg isn’t bad when your taking on a good team like Seattle 2nd best defensive team that year …. there is no reason why Miami should have lost that finals to Dallas they were the better team on paper but Lebron didn’t find a way for his team to win and Jordan did

[tuck243Participant]

Versus the Sonics…   Also, if Pippen didn’t go down with an injury he would’ve been Finals MVP too…   See this explains what I was saying…  LeBron is battling against a GOD in people’s eyes…  Unless he becomes one too, its no way he will get the crown…   This is why people make up things like he NEED to get X amount of rings and MVP’s…  Steve Nash has 2 MVP’s that should have went to LeBron…  He was the first player in history to be MVP only averaging 15 and 10…  With people who vote saying whomever has the better record is their vote for MVP…  Is that all it takes?  This is why I say hardware should only be taken into consideration after a players career…  While playing we can only compare skills, and currently can you say MJ is better by a large margin?  

[HOops1562Participant]

Stop discussing this has Jordan ever scored 8 points in a Finals and crumpled on the biggest stage ? I think the 2011 Finals took Lebron out of the debate …. not to mention he was one rebound away from just 1 title last year Jordan ? 6 titles in 6 tries no debate sorry fellas the Goat will always be the Goat

[TONYDABOSS77Participant]

2 more as in 2 more consecutive titles & MVP’s.

[TONYDABOSS77Participant]

2 more as in 2 more consecutive titles & MVP’s.

[TONYDABOSS77Participant]

 Shit like that really pisses me off. If you feel like Jordan’s the GOAT, cool. That’s your opinion. You’re entitled to that, but to say he’ll always be the GOAT is sad. That’s the biggest reason that LeBron might not ever be the GOAT or anyone else for that matter. People are stuck in nostalgia. Give the game a chance to move forward & progress. That’s the point of life. Why even continue to watch basketball if you’re convinced that you’ve already seen the best the game will ever have to offer?

[HOops1562Participant]

He will be in till someone takes it from him …. when Lebron retires will we all say yeah that’s the greatest player ever ? what will we remember ??? leaving Cleveland the Decision collapsing in the 2011 finals leaving to play with 2 top 10 players the flopping … i’m just saying Lebron has done great things but that doesn’t out weigh all the bad things he’s done doesn’t mean he isn’t a player i don’t enjoy watching but to think he’s getting closer to being the GOAT ? no way not from what i’ve seen if he wins a couple more title he’s in the conversation but 2 rings ???  not close enough … we are giving the game a chance too move on this batch of stars we have now are pretty good Durant Westbrook Curry Paul are all great players but even they would agree Jordan is the GOAT …. just listen to Kobe’s reaction http://www.youtube.com/watch

[HOops1562Participant]

He will be in till someone takes it from him …. when Lebron retires will we all say yeah that’s the greatest player ever ? what will we remember ??? leaving Cleveland the Decision collapsing in the 2011 finals leaving to play with 2 top 10 players the flopping … i’m just saying Lebron has done great things but that doesn’t out weigh all the bad things he’s done doesn’t mean he isn’t a player i don’t enjoy watching but to think he’s getting closer to being the GOAT ? no way not from what i’ve seen if he wins a couple more title he’s in the conversation but 2 rings ???  not close enough … we are giving the game a chance too move on this batch of stars we have now are pretty good Durant Westbrook Curry Paul are all great players but even they would agree Jordan is the GOAT …. just listen to Kobe’s reaction http://www.youtube.com/watch

[TONYDABOSS77Participant]

 Shit like that really pisses me off. If you feel like Jordan’s the GOAT, cool. That’s your opinion. You’re entitled to that, but to say he’ll always be the GOAT is sad. That’s the biggest reason that LeBron might not ever be the GOAT or anyone else for that matter. People are stuck in nostalgia. Give the game a chance to move forward & progress. That’s the point of life. Why even continue to watch basketball if you’re convinced that you’ve already seen the best the game will ever have to offer?

[IhateusernamesParticipant]

 Jordan couldn’t lock up durant and rose like that. 

This is a great debate that probably has no wrong answer, but even me as the biggest bulls fan and Jordan fan out there would pick Lebron to start a team over Jordan.

[omphalosParticipant]

 I don’t know where this misconception came from that Lebron "locked up Durant" in the 2012 Finals, but it has to stop.

Durant lost the series but his stats were amazing, 30.6ppg on 55% from the field and 39% from 3.

He was let down by his team-mates, Harden in particular who had a horrible series.

[omphalosParticipant]

 I don’t know where this misconception came from that Lebron "locked up Durant" in the 2012 Finals, but it has to stop.

Durant lost the series but his stats were amazing, 30.6ppg on 55% from the field and 39% from 3.

He was let down by his team-mates, Harden in particular who had a horrible series.

[IhateusernamesParticipant]

 Jordan couldn’t lock up durant and rose like that. 

This is a great debate that probably has no wrong answer, but even me as the biggest bulls fan and Jordan fan out there would pick Lebron to start a team over Jordan.

[Land of GrantParticipant]

The defense isn’t equal. Jordan was better. Teams would design plays to be run on the side of the court he wasn’t on. He averaged 2.3 steals per game for his career. LeBron’s actually had a down year defensively, he’s not getting steals or blocks and has been blown by a bunch of times, even getting destroyed by Durant earlier in the year.

Lebron’s a better passer, and three-point shooter, but Jordan was a better defender, competitor, and, well, cooler. I believe that someone’s attitude is a big part of their greatness, and Jordan has LeBron beat in that department. He never wore a big goofy hat, or made goofy commercials that were about anything other than his individual greatness. LeBron tries to seem stoic like Jordan sometimes, but then commercial break rolls around and you see him laughing it up with Kevin Hart. Jordan, also, didn’t deliberately seek out other stars to win championships. He waited and was loyal to his team.

Jordan was just way, way cooler than LeBron. That combined with his dominance of the league, something that LeBron could someday rival, and the larger sample size of his career to look at, and his superior defence and on-par scoring, makes him the better all time player.

 

 

[tuck243Participant]

This isn’t freaking Football where QB’s don’t throw to Sherman or Deion Sanders side…  I can’t believe you said that and your saving grace is a statline?  Go watch some old Jordan games and KNOW that Jordan didn’t guard the best wing player…  And NOT ONE TEAM AVOIDED JORDAN’S SIDE OF THE COURT….  Where in the hell you get that from?

Jordan didn’t guard Drexler…  Someone who they said was better than him… For as much as a competitor Jordan was he sure did go against some terrible ass wing superstars…

John Starks gave Jordan fits… YES, John Starks…  Joe Dumars, who wasn’t athletic by no stretch of the imagination gave Jordan fits too…  He didn’t guard Nique…  So, again…  Where are you guys getting this ridiculous claims that Jordan was this magical lock down defender???

Like I said go watch some of Jordan’s old games…  Even Stackhouse thrashed Jordan…  YouTube has a lot of his old games…  Go watch some…

 

 

  

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

John Starks gave Jordan fits… YES, John Starks… Joe Dumars, who wasn’t athletic by no stretch of the imagination gave Jordan fits too… He didn’t guard Nique… So, again… Where are you guys getting this ridiculous claims that Jordan was this magical lock down defender???
————————————————————————————————————

Not sure what you’re getting at here…Starks was a top perimeter defender and Dumars was an excellent defender too, it certainly isn’t a knock on MJ that they “gave him fits”.

Also these “fits” are relative, MJ was still an offensive juggernaut against those guy just not quite as ridiculously devastating as he was against average defenders in the league. MJ averaged 31.8 PPG on 46.7 FG% in 26 games against Starks and 31.1 PPG on 47.3 FG% in 48 games against Dumars.

Stackhouse thrashed Jordan? Stackhouse had a few good games against Jordan, most of the them when MJ was 38 and playing for the Wizards while Stackhouse was in the prime of his career. If you really think Lebron is going to be shutting down 20+ PPG scorers when he’s almost 40 then by all means criticize Jordan for the same

[tuck243Participant]

 We talking about Jordan’s defense, no?? 

And I’m talking about the prime Jordan and young Jerry Stackhouse…  Go read on your history

[tuck243Participant]

 We talking about Jordan’s defense, no?? 

And I’m talking about the prime Jordan and young Jerry Stackhouse…  Go read on your history

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

um no, Starks and Dumars did not give MJ fits offensively. They were some of the toughest defenders he ever faced but he never had a problem with defending them.

Dumars averaged 15.4 PPG on 45.7 FG% and 3.9 APG in 48 regular season games against MJ and 14.7 PPG on 43.7 FG% in 22 playoff games.

Starks averaged a whopping 12.8 PPG on 41.3 FG% in 24 games against Jordan and hit the 20 point mark just 4 times. In only 2 of those 4 games did he shoot better than 46% from the field.

A young Stackhouse occasionally went for 20+ points against the Bulls with MJ, that doesn’t mean he thrashed him. The guy was a high volume scorer who took a lot of shots. Rudy Gay has had more 20 point games versus Lebron’s teams does that mean Lebron is a poor defender and Gay thrashes him?

How old are you? The history you claim to be true is hyperbole at best and outright BS at worst…

[tuck243Participant]

 Both Joe Dumars and John Starks averaged their regular season stats versus Jordan…   He didn’t dominate them defensively at all…  Like I said, go watch those games and see Jordan didn’t lock anyone up…  

[tuck243Participant]

 Both Joe Dumars and John Starks averaged their regular season stats versus Jordan…   He didn’t dominate them defensively at all…  Like I said, go watch those games and see Jordan didn’t lock anyone up…  

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

um no, Starks and Dumars did not give MJ fits offensively. They were some of the toughest defenders he ever faced but he never had a problem with defending them.

Dumars averaged 15.4 PPG on 45.7 FG% and 3.9 APG in 48 regular season games against MJ and 14.7 PPG on 43.7 FG% in 22 playoff games.

Starks averaged a whopping 12.8 PPG on 41.3 FG% in 24 games against Jordan and hit the 20 point mark just 4 times. In only 2 of those 4 games did he shoot better than 46% from the field.

A young Stackhouse occasionally went for 20+ points against the Bulls with MJ, that doesn’t mean he thrashed him. The guy was a high volume scorer who took a lot of shots. Rudy Gay has had more 20 point games versus Lebron’s teams does that mean Lebron is a poor defender and Gay thrashes him?

How old are you? The history you claim to be true is hyperbole at best and outright BS at worst…

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

John Starks gave Jordan fits… YES, John Starks… Joe Dumars, who wasn’t athletic by no stretch of the imagination gave Jordan fits too… He didn’t guard Nique… So, again… Where are you guys getting this ridiculous claims that Jordan was this magical lock down defender???
————————————————————————————————————

Not sure what you’re getting at here…Starks was a top perimeter defender and Dumars was an excellent defender too, it certainly isn’t a knock on MJ that they “gave him fits”.

Also these “fits” are relative, MJ was still an offensive juggernaut against those guy just not quite as ridiculously devastating as he was against average defenders in the league. MJ averaged 31.8 PPG on 46.7 FG% in 26 games against Starks and 31.1 PPG on 47.3 FG% in 48 games against Dumars.

Stackhouse thrashed Jordan? Stackhouse had a few good games against Jordan, most of the them when MJ was 38 and playing for the Wizards while Stackhouse was in the prime of his career. If you really think Lebron is going to be shutting down 20+ PPG scorers when he’s almost 40 then by all means criticize Jordan for the same

[tuck243Participant]

This isn’t freaking Football where QB’s don’t throw to Sherman or Deion Sanders side…  I can’t believe you said that and your saving grace is a statline?  Go watch some old Jordan games and KNOW that Jordan didn’t guard the best wing player…  And NOT ONE TEAM AVOIDED JORDAN’S SIDE OF THE COURT….  Where in the hell you get that from?

Jordan didn’t guard Drexler…  Someone who they said was better than him… For as much as a competitor Jordan was he sure did go against some terrible ass wing superstars…

John Starks gave Jordan fits… YES, John Starks…  Joe Dumars, who wasn’t athletic by no stretch of the imagination gave Jordan fits too…  He didn’t guard Nique…  So, again…  Where are you guys getting this ridiculous claims that Jordan was this magical lock down defender???

Like I said go watch some of Jordan’s old games…  Even Stackhouse thrashed Jordan…  YouTube has a lot of his old games…  Go watch some…

 

 

  

[Land of GrantParticipant]

The defense isn’t equal. Jordan was better. Teams would design plays to be run on the side of the court he wasn’t on. He averaged 2.3 steals per game for his career. LeBron’s actually had a down year defensively, he’s not getting steals or blocks and has been blown by a bunch of times, even getting destroyed by Durant earlier in the year.

Lebron’s a better passer, and three-point shooter, but Jordan was a better defender, competitor, and, well, cooler. I believe that someone’s attitude is a big part of their greatness, and Jordan has LeBron beat in that department. He never wore a big goofy hat, or made goofy commercials that were about anything other than his individual greatness. LeBron tries to seem stoic like Jordan sometimes, but then commercial break rolls around and you see him laughing it up with Kevin Hart. Jordan, also, didn’t deliberately seek out other stars to win championships. He waited and was loyal to his team.

Jordan was just way, way cooler than LeBron. That combined with his dominance of the league, something that LeBron could someday rival, and the larger sample size of his career to look at, and his superior defence and on-par scoring, makes him the better all time player.

 

 

[IhateusernamesParticipant]

 Michael was a great on ball defender early in his career but pippen saved his ass in the 2nd half of his career. As for the Lebron/Durant thing. Durant had a great series overall but he guarded Durant at the end of games. When it reall counted. How did that go? Yeah, lockdown.

 

whoever keeps begging me us a bunch of bia tches

[IhateusernamesParticipant]

 Michael was a great on ball defender early in his career but pippen saved his ass in the 2nd half of his career. As for the Lebron/Durant thing. Durant had a great series overall but he guarded Durant at the end of games. When it reall counted. How did that go? Yeah, lockdown.

 

whoever keeps begging me us a bunch of bia tches

[bobforteParticipant]

 I don’t want to repeat most of whats been said so Ill stick to something that hasn’t been brought up.  The 06 finals Wade got to the basket as close to Jordan as anyone had.  But still Jordan had more explosiveness (quicker).  That year Wade was in the conversation for the best in the league.  Yet still wasn’t on the same level as Jordan.  Jordan hit a lot of mid range shots and got to the basket at will.  Lebron is a great athlete and is fast and extreamly strong but Jordan was so quick it was unreal and also strong for his position.  Lebron is great and his career isn’t over yet so who knows exactly where he will end up but right now he is still behind mike as well as a few other guys.  

[bobforteParticipant]

 I don’t want to repeat most of whats been said so Ill stick to something that hasn’t been brought up.  The 06 finals Wade got to the basket as close to Jordan as anyone had.  But still Jordan had more explosiveness (quicker).  That year Wade was in the conversation for the best in the league.  Yet still wasn’t on the same level as Jordan.  Jordan hit a lot of mid range shots and got to the basket at will.  Lebron is a great athlete and is fast and extreamly strong but Jordan was so quick it was unreal and also strong for his position.  Lebron is great and his career isn’t over yet so who knows exactly where he will end up but right now he is still behind mike as well as a few other guys.  

[BigChamp12Participant]

 Just from reading each post, I see that anyone who has defended the idea that Lebron could surpass Jordan got the hell negged out of them. I guess no one is open to other people’s opinions.

[BigChamp12Participant]

 Just from reading each post, I see that anyone who has defended the idea that Lebron could surpass Jordan got the hell negged out of them. I guess no one is open to other people’s opinions.

[BennyWestsideParticipant]

 That’s just how it rolls when you are talking about anything to do with MJ. He has been deified in the time since he played, and no one could possibly be better than he was, since what people remember is his last six years. Try living up to that, six years, six rings. It is a shame though, because most of the best written and most well thought out posts were by those who got negged. 

[BennyWestsideParticipant]

 That’s just how it rolls when you are talking about anything to do with MJ. He has been deified in the time since he played, and no one could possibly be better than he was, since what people remember is his last six years. Try living up to that, six years, six rings. It is a shame though, because most of the best written and most well thought out posts were by those who got negged. 

[addi troupaParticipant]

 Dominate regardless of era.  I watched 80s ball and to say Lebron wouldn’t dominate is straight hate.  Ur telling me Karl Malone with way more athleticism and passing like magic wouldn’t dominate that era, be real and kill the argument.  Just a fact,  the 80s was not the era of 2G……Jordan’s beat head to head would be Richmond or drexler.  

[addi troupaParticipant]

 Dominate regardless of era.  I watched 80s ball and to say Lebron wouldn’t dominate is straight hate.  Ur telling me Karl Malone with way more athleticism and passing like magic wouldn’t dominate that era, be real and kill the argument.  Just a fact,  the 80s was not the era of 2G……Jordan’s beat head to head would be Richmond or drexler.  

[HitsterParticipant]

 LBJ is a great player but I don’t think even he can touch MJ. 

One thing I’ll throw in, could LBJ take 18 months or so out and comeback and next season lead a team to 72 wins and become MVP. 

MJ was 9 time all defensive 1st Team, so I figure he could play a fair bit of defence too despite people saying he relied on Pippen. 

 

 

[HaleParticipant]

Kobe is a 9x Defensive team too. Doesn’t mean he deserved more than 5.

[tuck243Participant]

 Kobe’s defense has been suspect for a few years now and he still got all-defensive team…   Main reason they got swept by the Mavericks was because he didn’t rotate and lost his man like James Harden this year…  They have a YouTube video showing Kobe’s lack of defense…  Yet, he still got first team all-defense…

 

[tuck243Participant]

 Kobe’s defense has been suspect for a few years now and he still got all-defensive team…   Main reason they got swept by the Mavericks was because he didn’t rotate and lost his man like James Harden this year…  They have a YouTube video showing Kobe’s lack of defense…  Yet, he still got first team all-defense…

 

[HaleParticipant]

Kobe is a 9x Defensive team too. Doesn’t mean he deserved more than 5.

[HitsterParticipant]

 LBJ is a great player but I don’t think even he can touch MJ. 

One thing I’ll throw in, could LBJ take 18 months or so out and comeback and next season lead a team to 72 wins and become MVP. 

MJ was 9 time all defensive 1st Team, so I figure he could play a fair bit of defence too despite people saying he relied on Pippen. 

 

 

[King CaluchaParticipant]

I think Lebron is a great player and he can do a lot of things on the same level or better than Magic… passing just isn’t one of them. To me, Magic is the best passer and highest IQ player ever. I don’t think Lebron is on the same level as a playmaker.

[King CaluchaParticipant]

I think Lebron is a great player and he can do a lot of things on the same level or better than Magic… passing just isn’t one of them. To me, Magic is the best passer and highest IQ player ever. I don’t think Lebron is on the same level as a playmaker.

[Author]

Posts