[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

 Philly gets the pick 1 or 7, goes to Boston if 2 – 6.  

Right now the Lakers look decent.  They need time for all the pieces to fit, but Kuzma and Hart look like solid pros and Kuzma looks very good, the kid can do it all and has shown it against NBA bodies.  

For the #2 pick, Lonzo Ball, sorry, I’m underwhelmed.  I don’t know how long it will take, but Ben Simmons looks like a historically good basketball player in 5 games.  The way Ben moves with his size, fluidity, and passing ability and his ability to hit a midrange jumper clearly makes him stand out.  Basically, Ben is able to impact a game due to his size.  Against Houston, due to his freak speed and size he was able to fly down the court, strong enough to create space by pushing PJ Tucker off him who coudln’t run with him down the court, nudge him off like he is a Superhero, and get the easy layup.  Ben is a freak.

Someone like Giannis obviously is also a freak, due to length, as is a Kevin Durant not just because of length but also marksmanship.

Back to Lonzo, I hope the Lakers fans on here see where I am coming from.  I’m not hating, but true basketball fans should cringe everytime Lonzo does something and those fraud Lakers fans get excited even on a miss.  In Philly, we’d question if he was the right choice every time he missed or struggled to get a shot off, in L.A., they cheer for their "celebrities" based on hype.  Even the announcers yesterday "oh my what a touch pass by Lonzo".  What I’m saying is, even the announcers are overreacting to a basic play.  "This is why the kid shows so much promise"…really?

Even Ingram who is more of a freak than Lonzo, due to his length, has a nice first step but simply lacks strength, so the announcers keep it real and say "great first step just not strong enough".  Well, why don’t people point out the flaws in Lonzo’s game instead of constantly talking about his "potential".  

Lonzo has an awkward shot.  I haven’t seen him be able to create his own shot or take over games by himself, which is the mark of a star.  What I’ve seen so far I’ve been kind of bored.  He comes down teh court and makes a pass and watches.  Every team needs tablesetters, but this isn’t Magic Johnson grabbing a rebound and sprinting down the court, collapsing the defense at will, and seeing the entire court making a beautiful in rhythm pass.  This is a kid that brings the ball up court and hands it off and watches. 

At this level, especially defensively, what I think is, Lonzo’s legs are too slow.  He has massive legs, but he doesn’t have enough footspeed to defend really good PGs that are quicker than him.  I just think his feet are too ploddy for him to have an impact.  I don’t see him with the ball breaking down defenders and getting into the paint at will to collapse a defense.

He is a perimeter guard.  He’s a conductor, but he won’t win you games by himself.  Lonzo NEEDS very good players around him to win.  Ben Simmons can win a game for you by taking over in the 4th quarter simply due to his size and speed.  Lonzo’s size and speed is average in the NBA.  I’m not impressed by his passing either I think its above average but nothing to get hyped up about.

Having said that he is the #2 pick, so for fun some names taken with the 2nd pick in NBA history include: 

Isiah Thomas 1980 – No chance I see Lonzo having an Isiah type impact,

Gary Payton 1990 – Lonzo doesn’t play Defense like the glove,

J. Kidd 1994 – Possibly but I think J Kidd was a better and tougher athlete, far better defender, and J Kidd could also penetrate, I haven’t seen Lonzo do much of that against a good defender, 

Mike Bibby 1998 – Bibby was a really good system player that could hit big shots.  

Steve Francis 1999 – short career hyperathlete body broke down

Jay Williams 2002 – Undersized, but would have been interesting.

Kevin Durant 2007 – Not even close.

Evan Turner 2010 – solid NBA player.

Victor Oladipo 2013 – slightly undersized but a more polished offensive player.

 

Listing these guards, where do you foresee Ball falling?  

If I rank them based on their careers, I’d go:

Durant, Thomas, Kidd, Payton, Francis, Bibby, Oladipo, Turner, Williams.

I honestly think Lonzo as a #2 pick for impact, is somewehre around Francis-Bibby-Oladipo-Turner.  I think Lonzo floor is Evan Turner and his ceiling is Jason Kidd, but more than likely he is destined for an Evan Turner type career with slightly better athleticism.

 

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

As Lonzo has been a little bit underwhelming.  But if you were expecting Lonzo to take over games and score 20 points a game then that just tells me you aren’t really aware of what type of player he is or have watched him much and you are also falling victim to the hype game.  Just because you hear his name a lot and talked about doesn’t mean he fits the typical superstar archetype. 

Lonzo changes the culture of a team.  His passing becomes infectous as it already has with the Lakers.  He racks up assists by making simple, correct plays.  Not by pounding the rock into oblivion and hitting the guy in the corner.  

Him and Simmons, while they share some similarities in their passing really couldn’t be more opposite.  Simmons is essentially a modern day point guard in a huge body.  He’s totally comfortable holding the ball for the entirety of the shot clock until it’s time to make a play for someone else at the end.  That’s not how Lonzo operates and is backed by his insanely low useage rate in college.  Simply put, there isn’t another player in the NBA that passes like Lonzo.  There may be ones that rack up more assists, there may be ones that have better vision or fancier passes but I cannot think of another NBA player that is comfortable advancing the ball as soon as it gets taken out of bounds.  Some see that as him being passive, some see that as allowing his teammates to put pressure on the defense.  It’s extremely selfless.  Simmons doesn’t have that type of approach nor does anybody else.  Not taking anything away from Simmons but they are just completely different.

Lonzo’s shot will start to fall and his PPG will go up but that doesn’t really matter to him anyways.  It only needs to fall to keep defenses honest.  But if you’re expecting him to take over games late with scoring then that just tells me you have never really watched him play all that much at any level and are only analyzing him based off what you think he should be from what you hear about him.

I would say he’s a throwback PG but he’s not even really that.  Simmons is more a throw back PG in my opinion that can score and take over games due to his physical tools.  There hasn’t really been many playes like Lonzo.  Even his most used comp isn’t really fair because Jason Kidd was pushing the ball himself, he wasn’t giving it up to his teammates to make decisions.  Again, some aren’t cool with this and want more statistical output from a 2nd overall pick.  The Lakers bet on being able to surround Lonzo with better players at which point his value will be sky high because he puts everybody around him in a position to succeed.  That is not something that can be said about Simmons yet.  Simmons simply accumulates better numbers.

And it’s early in the season.  Talk to me at the all star break about who the better shooter is between Lonzo and Simmons.

 

 

 

 

  

[mowestenParticipant]

"Lonzo’s shot will start to fall and his PPG will go up but that doesn’t really matter to him anyways. It only needs to fall to keep defenses honest. But if you’re expecting him to take over games late with scoring then that just tells me you have never really watched him play all that much at any level and are only analyzing him based off what you think he should be from what you hear about him."

Dude, if people got the wrong impression about the kid’s greatest maybe it’s because the Ball crew was saying he was the best player in the world, better than Curry and LeBron, etc., all … can’t say that then get all offended when people call BS on you because you’re playing like a third rate scrub. 

Serious question: if you had a $1k bet out and had to choose between Steve Nash kicking the ball in the basket from 3 or Ball shooting it, who would you take?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIA7x6UmfgI

 

 

 

[Kwame33Participant]

 The ball crew? You mean one singular guy who no one took seriously in the first place? I’m not sure I’ve heard lonzo utter anything overly confident about himself.

[ChewyParticipant]

 What about my boy, pick #2, Hasheem Thabet?! 

[NickWayne87Participant]

 Ben Simmons is a “red shirt” rookie and it’s not the same as no prior NBA experience regardless of what anyone says.  It made a difference for Embiid, Blake and now Ben so you can’t compare what Ben is doing to Lonzo.  With that said he’s playing great OVERALL imo outside that game where Beverley SHOOK him where I agree with Walton in that he didn’t play as bad in that game as everyone says.  He was noticeably shaken and played too conservative.  He gets to his spots and makes the RIGHT basketball plays.  His rebounding already looks ELITE at his position he will always be a triple double threat his whole NBA career.  His passing is elite as well and he will only get better at his strengths as he gets used to the NBA game and gets stronger.  The only thing he’s not doing well already at 19 just turning 20 is shooting well from the outside.  I think it has nothing to do with his form and is just jitters. He will settle down and his shot will come.  It doesn’t matter what someone’s form looks like as long as it’s consistent.  This Laker unit plays together BETTER than last year’s version and it’s because of Lonzo Ball.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 What does Ben Simmons have to do with guys in the 2017 draft?  

Are Lakers fans losing sleep over not having Fultz, Tatum, Dennis Smith, Jr., or Josh Jackson?  Fox isn’t shooting so well either…  Would Lauri Legend have been as big of a hit in Hollywoodland?

Simmons was the GOAT in his draft class.  Lonzo might still be the GOAT in HIS draft class.  

So what?

One guy is 6’10 and is paired with Embiid (one of the top guys in HIS class, but wasn’t Porzingas in there, too?), the other guy has some guys on rookie deals, including a steal in Kyle Kuzma. 

BOTH guys are on the short list of youngsters I would wanna build around, but with one guy putting up MVP TYPE NUMBERS (Ben Simmons). 

On the other hand: Fultz — BAD PICK!!!

I was of the philosophy that the Sixers should go out and put an All Star Team on the floor with Lonzo and Simmons as their "guards" with Covington, Saric, and Embiid on the front line (along with whatever you do with Okafor).  

Lonzo can play off the ball or on.  Still a better shooter than Simmons so he could hit some 3’s.  And, with Simmons/Embiid pick and rolls he should get some good spacing.  Lonzo can also cut.  OR, you have Lonzo-Embiid pick and rolls with Ben Simmons cutting.  

Simmons and Lonzo are talented enough, versatile enough, and creative enough to have figured it out.  

Lonzo/Simmons pick and rolls would have been a nice tweak, too.

So, the Sixers coulda had a Super Six of Simmons, Embiid, Lonzo Ball, Saric, Covington, and Okafor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 For the Lakers, gimme Lonzo over Tatum.  Tatum is the real deal, but Lonzo can run a team.  He can make others around him better.  Tatum has big time upside, and we will see how much upside Lonzo does.  

But, in a vaccuum, with the Lakers picking at 2, I think they made the right call.

 

 

 

[cohenbc1Participant]

Jordan Clarkson leads the Lakers in scoring at 14.7 ppg, but is 7th on the team in minutes at a mere 19.6 mpg.

[MopgrassParticipant]

 Randle has been the best Laker. Easily. He’s getting 19 minutes. They all really bought into the system. They’re playing 500 ball today, but winning 42% of their games is the best they could hope for. Playing decently will help the trade vale of Randle and Clarkson: the keys to getting rid of Deng and bringing in two max guys. 

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

 His coach has no clue how to use him.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 The topic of this post is extremely misleading. It literally has almost nothing to do with the Lakers as a team at all. I feel like "reasons why lonzo ball is overrated" would be more appropriate.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 The topic of this post is extremely misleading. It literally has almost nothing to do with the Lakers as a team at all. I feel like "reasons why lonzo ball is overrated" would be more appropriate.

[BeastMode716Participant]

 facts to fit our argument & look I absolutely do it too. 

If we like Simmons we’ll say he’s at a Disadvantage b/c he has not played a Real competetive game since March 2016 at LSU so he’s Rusty & his timing is off. 

The Only really young player in the 2017 NBA Draft was Fultz who had just turned 19 & wasa full 6 months younger than most of the other top prospects. 

Ball is 20 & Simmons is 21. 

The same argument was used against Embiid last season. 

The counter is that they had a full year or Two (in Embiid’s case) of being around an NBA locker room & the coaches & that is somewhat true although Way over-emphasized b/c a player w/ a serious is spending the majority of his time Rehabbing the injury, loses their edge b/c they get out of shape & their game instincts dull – so it evens out if you ask me 

And NOTHING on the planet can prepare you to play in the Athletic & Pure Skill Freak show that is the NBA except Playing GAMES in the NBA – so I agree it is an advantage but it is Very minimal & applies more to off the court issues like finding a place to live & growing comfortable w/ a new city, etc….

Now a player like Dario Saric or Nicolai Mirotic I Absolutely AGREE should NOT be considered for the Rookie of the Year award b/c they were Playing competetive Professional Basketball for some of the Top European teams in the World – That is a Valid argument.

Age is Not. Embiid & Saric won 6 of the 7 NBA Rookie of the month awards last season & I believe Willie Hernangomez won the final Rookie of the Month award. Saric & Embiid began the season at 22 years old & I believe both turned 23 near the end of the season. Malcolm Brogden – the ROY award winner – was 24! He’ll be 25 next month. – he’s 2 years older than the Greek Freak, 3 years older than Jabari Parker & nearly 5 years older than Thon Maker who was drafted 1 year after Brogden

That’s NOT a criticism of Brogden, I was fine w/ him winning the award. Once Embiid went down w/ his injury no one else really jumped out. Brogden, Saric, Murray of Denver, Brown in Boston, all had really umpressive years for a Rookie & I was fine w/ Any of them winning it. 

I just wanted to point out that NBA Basketball is Unique unto itself & Age has Very little to do w/ it. You can either play or you can’t. 

Lonzo I think looks Great so far. He has his limitations but so does Every player in that 2017 Draft class. It looks like we had a Bunch of Really good potential All Stars in that 2017 Draft class. I don’t know that we had any guys in that class w/ the potential to be a Superstar like a Porzingus or a Towns or a Embiid or a Ktrie Irving or a John Wall or a Ben Simmons or a Wiggins or a Greek Freak. 

Those are what ESPN calls Tier 1 prospects (potential generational talents POTENTIAL not saying the ARE). Tier 2 are Oustanding talents, potentially All Stars & in that 2017 Draft Class I think we have 6 players who could Def be All Star level: Fultz, Ball, Tatum, Jackson, Fox, D Smith jr & a WHOLE bunch more who look Really strong too. 

But people criticizing Lonzo I don’t get b/c he is doing Exactly what we Hoped he would be! No one Ever said he would be a Scorer. The Lakers don’t have much talent, a PG like Lonzo Ball Needs talent around him. But his stats for a Rookie are Fantastic. It’s Actually FUN watching Lakers games again b/c they play w/ such a great pace & they ALL move the ball & move withOUT the ball & that’s 100% b/c of Lonzo.

Last year we had a Lot of Iso dribbling. It’s Not fair to compare Lonzo to Ben Simmons. I was on eof the biggest Ben Simmons supporters on this site going into the 2016 Draft & even those of us who thought Simmons was going to be special & was the clear 2016 #1 pick could Not have imagined Simmons being THIS much of a Freak. It’s crazy that Phila 2 years in a row puts a rookie on the court who is tearing apart established NBA Vets & barely breaking a sweat doing it. 

That’s NOT the Norm! So it’s very unfair to compare Lonzo to that standard. I prefer to compare Lonzo to historical numbers for Rookies who turned into Big time NBA Talents & Lonzo’s rookie stats are Fantastic So let’s let ALL these Rookies have about 50 games before we judge them

 (So sorry for the long post)

#LakerNation 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[drpg913Participant]

 Isn’t the point of drafting someone so high is to get a player that is a potential Franchise player? Someone who stands out? A guy that can takeover games? I remember Lonzo Ball being called Jason Kidd with a jumpshot and that he was taller and more atheletic. I was never a believer in his shooting ability at the NBA level. People were saying that they didn’t care if his shot was ugly or not and the mechanics were fine because the shots kept going in. Well fastforward to today and he doesn’t look all that special. He looks like an NBA player but just not someone you would want as a number 2 pick. Nobody ever says flatout that he hasn’t been good. They just point to the 2 or 3 things he does well over a 48 minute game and just focus on that. Lavar was saying that he was the next Penny but Penny could get to the rack and finish and had some wobble ot his game. Lonzo has no wobble at all and doesn’t even finish at the rack. I just don’t see it and to be quite honest I never really saw it. With out the jumpshot he’s pretty much Rubio or Rondo and I don’t remember either of them being this hyped up. One positive thing about Lonzo though is that his defense seems to be better than people had predicted.

[BeastMode716Participant]

 Magic Jordan nailed it in his post. Kidd used to attack the basket constantly & then dish. 

What Lonzo brings to the table is really hard to quantify but for Lakers fans we can clearly see the difference from the D’Lo run Lakers to the Lonzo run Lakers 

I actually think Simmons does give up the ball early too. I watch a lot of Sixers games b/c I live on the East coast now & Simmons can def just take over games if he feels like & so can Embiid but Phila really shares the ball too.

But Lonzo has really set a tone for the Lakers the entire team is moving w/o the ball & making the extra pass – he gets a ton of "Hockey" assists

I know that sounds like I’m making excuses for his lack of scoring but I get the idea that many people have never really seen him play & just can’t stand his father – a lot of us Lakers fans Understand that Trust me. 

When the Lakers are able to surround Lonzo w/ some elite talent he will get more open shots & score a bit more or at least at a higher percentage but I honestly dont think he cares. He’s got that oldest kid in the family mentality where he is worried about everyone else but himself. 

The Lakers have been in Every game so far & they really just lack an elite finisher to win some of these games. I like to compare the Lakers to Phila b/c those are the 2 teams I see the most & both have been tanking roughly 4 years. Yes Simmons is a Monster but the one game Embiid did not play the Sixers got blown off the court in Toronto

So don’t get it twisted, no one is talking about Embiid on Sports Center but he makes life Much easier for Simmons & that entire team – on top of being a giant & a freak athlete who can shoot, Embiid might be the Meanest Defensive big man I have seen since those old 70’s NBA videos. He almost took a Pacers guard’s head off running back on the fast break going for a block & Not a single Pacers player stepped to him, they all just turned & ran to the Ref complaining Embiid should be kicked outr & he Should have been but not even Myles Turner stepped to Embiid – it was Crazy to see. He creates a TON of space on Offense, No one drives the Rim on Defense so it makes Simmons life a Lot simpler

So if Lonzo has a Dominant Big like Embiid or Boogie Cousins (hint hint) in the middle, A player who draws a Double but makes great passes out of the Double team than he’s getting Wide open shots b/c their is Much more room. The Defense is Always reacting instead of dictating. 

Right now LOnzo is fantastic in the fast break or transition but he’s learning the 1/2 court game & Any pass first guard will struggle when No one on your team draws a double team. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 I said about Lonzo when he was at UCLA that the guy gets assists by simply swinging the ball and can’t really manufacture offense.  He’s basically Joe Ingles with no defense.  The idea of a pass first PG like Kidd and Nash is they make role players look great but with Lonzo its he needs elite players. News flash but when ur drafted 2nd you are suppose to be the elite player.  Anybody with half a brain knew he wouldn’t be able to get his shot off in the NBA easy too.  And hes too soft to attack the rim the guy never gets to the line.  

 

Plus on defense not only is he bad laterally but the kid dont even try to fight thru screens. Hell never be a serviceable defender or scorer.  Lakers drafted a guy 2nd whose only elite skill is swinging the ball and making the extra pass.  

 

 

[drpg913Participant]

 Thak You! That’s what I’ve been saying. You broke it down better than i did.

[Author]

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